Astrology of health & sickness

General Discussion on Natal Astrology matters for which a specific forum does not exist
DDonovanKinsolving
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by DDonovanKinsolving » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:34 pm

Has anyone tried out the biological correspondences provided by Ebertin in Combination of Stellar Influences?

-Derek

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:57 pm

I mentioned them above. They're at least a good theoretical start.
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by SteveS » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:59 am

FWIW, page 19 of Solunars Handbook (collection of Fagan’s AA articles), from one of Fagan’s AA Solunar article (Zodiacal Melothesia), he lists under medical astrology for Cancer:
Breast, chest, stomach
Without a doubt, most of my life, my stomach has been my main health problem area with various afflictions. Now with my advancing age, my heart (chest) has become somewhat afflicted; and my heart affliction was precisely timed by my 2016 SSR with a double whammy of Moon-Saturn. One of these whammy’s was SSR Saturn partile cnj Natal Moon; the other whammy—Natal Saturn in (Cancer) partile cnj SSR Asc, tightly squaring a culminating SSR Moon, with partile hit of p. SSR Moon partile 90 my Natal Saturn partile cnj SSR Asc--timing the exact beginning of my troubled heart problems. During my minor heart surgery in early 2017, I was prescribed a temporary medicine with a severe 'stomach' reaction which almost killed me off. I was born with Saturn cnj Pluto in Cancer, exact mundo cnj. Pluto-- without a doubt the most afflicted aspect in my Natal Chart proven to my mind with certain circumstances in my life. Fagan states in the same AA article continued in next post.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by SteveS » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:24 am

Fagan’s words with medical astrology:
Most seasoned astrologers will, I think, concede that the least satisfactory branch of their art is what is termed medical astrology. Most astrological textbooks, medieval and modern, devote one or more chapters to the subject, but it has been generally found that the many rules and aphorisms contained in them for effecting judgement have repeatedly failed when put to the test, with the result that they have long ceased to command the confidence of the astrological world. Briefly stated, these rules inform us (a) that the native will be liable to the ailments indicated by the constellation on the 6th house, or by the planets, if any, placed in that house; (b) by the malefic that may configurates the Ascendant or one of both luminaries at birth; the seat of the affliction being indicated by the constellation that contains the malefic, or the luminaries. From this it will be seen that the determination of the seat of the affliction is dependent on the constellation that contains the afflicted planet, according to the following zodiacal Melothesia:

Aries: Head, face, brain
Taurus: Neck, throat, cerebellum
Gemini: Shoulders, arms, lungs
Cancer: Breast, chest, stomach
Leo: Spine, back, heart
Virgo: Abdominal and umbilical region
Libra: Lumbar region, kidneys
Scorpio: Excretory and sexual organs
Sagittarius: Hips, thighs
Capricorn: Knees, hams
Aquarius: Legs, angles
Pisces: Feet, toes
The rest of article to be continued in next post.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by SteveS » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:41 am

Finishing Fagan’s medial astrology article:
Allowing for certain variations and modifications (e.g., in Hindu astrology the heart is placed under Cancer) * certainly true for my life * this zodiacal Melothesia, taken as a whole, has been accepted as part of the astrological world since the beginning of the Christian era and, to my knowledge, its validity has never been seriously called into question. But is it really valid? According to Raphael’s Medical Astrology, Saturn in Aries causes inter alia deftness. The writer has a collection of horoscopes of people born in the year 1896 who have Saturn in the opposite constellation Libra, and who have been deft since childhood. But he has failed to find a similar series of charts of deft people who have Saturn in Aires; Why? Of course, it is easy to argue these are cases of polarity, but this word “polarity” is merely a convenient pigeonhole to hide something not understood.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:11 am

Thanks, Steve, for the examples. A couple of remarks...

First, while Fagan did provide this traditional table, he also spent a lot of column space in "Solunars" documenting and supporting the reverse model, which he started to address at the end of your last quote - that wherein Libra, and not Aries, is the head, and (accordingly) Capricorn, and not Cancer, is the stomach and breasts. (For example, he cited that Capricorn's root myth is the goat Amalthea who was Zeus' wet-nurse, hence the more modern use of the word "nanny"; while Cancer, as a crab, is structurally all about the joints).

Second, despite his implied disparagement of the polarity idea, I think there is something to it There are complicated reasons behind this thinking, but part of it is that sometimes it just seems that it is so, and I'm not the first astrologer to think that there is something inherently connected between body parts represented by opposing signs. I at least always keep this in mind as a possibility.

Your own chart and life, as you cited, are a particularly good example of Cancer seeming to rule the stomach and even the chest - it all seems tied together for you. OTOH, I started looking for whether you might have other stomach vulnerability indicators and note that you have an afflicted Moon - in her fall and half a degree from a hard aspect with Mars. (The heart vulnerability I had attributed to your Sun-Uranus square.)

FWIW... since none of us knows nearly enough about this subject (which was my main reason for starting it up).
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by SteveS » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:58 am

Jim wrote:
First, while Fagan did provide this traditional table, he also spent a lot of column space in "Solunars" documenting and supporting the reverse model, which he started to address at the end of your last quote - that wherein Libra, and not Aries, is the head, and (accordingly) Capricorn, and not Cancer, is the stomach and breasts. (For example, he cited that Capricorn's root myth is the goat Amalthea who was Zeus' wet-nurse, hence the more modern use of the word "nanny"; while Cancer, as a crab, is structurally all about the joints).
I clearly understand Jim. I only have Fagan’s limited AA articles in ‘Solunars’ and did not realize Fagan changed his mind about his first article on medical astrology. Thanks for pointing this out to me. It has always been on my ‘bucket list’ to obtain ALL of Fagan’s AA articles and other writings that you have absorbed for my individual serious study.
Jim wrote:
Second, despite his implied disparagement of the polarity idea, I think there is something to it…
I entirely agree!
Jim wrote:
I started looking for whether you might have other stomach vulnerability indicators and note that you have an afflicted Moon - in her fall and half a degree from a hard aspect with Mars. (The heart vulnerability I had attributed to your Sun-Uranus square.)
Exactly! Mars is the lesser malefic and that partile Moon-Mars 135 damn sure plays a role with an upset stomach, at times, particularly when I find myself in angered fighting (Mars) situations. My partile Sun 90 Uranus? Yes indeed! I have been told by two different psychics that when I pass it will be ‘suddenly’ (Uranus), and I will not know what hit me. If true, this probably means I will die with a sudden heart (Sun) attack, truly a Jupiter blessing. In my previous post I was looking at by health life with Fagan's first AA article on medical astrology in the context of the greater malefic--Saturn.
Jim wrote:
FWIW... since none of us knows nearly enough about this subject (which was my main reason for starting it up).
Exactly! A damn good thread for 'food for thought'—we can only absorb and make certain assumptions/conclusions based on the context of individual lives. So much true knowledge from the ancients has been lost with over assumptions/conclusion from other astrological writers, which Fagan reiterated with his own astrological research.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:10 am

A few of the brief arguments defending the "Libra as head" model (though my real argument is in performance - something that truly impressed me when converting the charts in Millard's book to Sidereal).

First, the idea seems to have arisen for Fagan because the original attribution wasn't to signs but to houses (e.g., head = 1st house). After he realized that the earliest sign-house correspondences were from the Libra =- 1st house model, he started exploring the implications of this for medical astrology. Some brief notes off the top of my head:

Libra = head. Organs of balance are there, the face is the primary focus of beautification etc.

Scorpio = throat. Patron goddess in Egypt was "She who relieves the windpipe." Most historic forms of execution involved the neck, e.g., hanging or beheading.

Sagittarius = upper torso etc. Shape of the archer in action, some Egyptian hieroglyphics related to hand; and Bradley wrote a piece at some point about the social rituals of using the hands etc.

Capricorn = breasts etc. Amalthea, the she-goat that breast-fed Zeus, was later placed in the sky as Capricorn.

Aquarius = heart. Twin streams pumping etc.

Pisces = lower abdomen. Fish connected at umbilicus (to which we can add all the Neptune-intrauterine symbolism from Kid Gloves).

Aries = buttocks & uterus - the glyph is the shape of both! (Also kidneys and the map for vessels conveying from there to the bladder)

Taurus = genitals. Original hieroglyph for Taurus/bull is a phallus

Gemini = legs, obvious for Mercury and the "two" thing

Cancer = joints - consider shell & general construction of a crab

Leo = back and ankles - shape gives this away, Fagan went on about Victorian furniture designs etc.

Virgo = feet - back to Mercury, winged ankles, grape stomping
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by SteveS » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:38 pm

Arena wrote:
I had to go to hospital and be operated on when I was 16 yrs old with acute horrible infection of my reproduction system. My first boyfriend transmitted an STD to me.
Jim wrote pertaining to this ‘horrible infection’ for Arena's 16th SSR:
...but the SSR itself does indeed have Venus-Pluto symbolism… with Venus-Pluto op. 1°01' in mundo.
Ebertin writes for Venus-Pluto:
Biological Correspondence: The first occurrence of the menses, the ovaries,--Corpus luteum. Occasionally excessive or abnormal sex-life.

Not an exact Venus-Pluto Biological delineation for Arena’s infection stemming from a sexual encounter at 16, but combo-up with her SSR IC on Natal Mars, I think we see the angular infection (Mars) with her ‘first boyfriend.’ Bradley teaches us with his research: “Angular Pluto in SSR has to with “Firsts” of any kind," hence, Arena’s ‘first boyfriend’ transmitting STD to Arena with this sexual encounter.

Yes Derek, IMO, we need to definitely pay close attention to Ebertin's 'Biological Correspondence' when we see a malefic SSR, more so maybe--the older we become.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:23 pm

Aquarius - lungs?

Allergies are not always respiratory, but are always caused by toxins, including some pollens, molds and metals, and some foods.

I have a lot of allergies. I have a partile Venus Pluto conjunction, which was background where I was born, but is angular here. I've also lived where it was middleground and had no particular allergy problems, just some end of summer ragweed reactions that anyone could have. I don't have "asthma" because that would have been a pre-existing condition and not covered a few times it was important, so I have "reactive lungs". I do take Singular (montelukast) as needed (seasonally, mostly.)

I also have food allergies, and severe drug allergies. Penicillin is made from bread mold, but it's not the only mold toxin that kills bacteria. I'm highly reactive to mold, by respiration, ingestion and contact. I can also tell you if something contains nickle or wool.

The worst week of my life began August 4, 2003, when I started having trouble breathing because the stupid city decided to widen several roads in the area at once during a very hot, dry period, just as the ragweed came into bloom. It ended the 22nd at the emergency clinic with an epinephrine shot and an oxygen mask. There were some really horrific days (the 9th and the 18th especially) including deaths that hit hard. The astrology of that time is... strange. Clearly there is something I'm missing. T Jupiter + T Uranus conj/opp N Jupiter. Really?

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Danica » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:04 pm

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:23 pm
I'm highly reactive to mold, by respiration, ingestion and contact.
Me too. I'm fighting this by slowly de-sensitizing the organism to it, venturing occasionally into eating a slice of bread that has a small amount of mold (that I can only taste/smell, not see), or tomato sauce (this is trickier); but I'm doing it randomly, not nearly scientifically enough to know for sure how much does it really help.
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:27 pm

Danica wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:04 pm
Me too. I'm fighting this by slowly de-sensitizing the organism to it,
Wow. I'm impressed. You're braver than I am, although de-sensitizing is a seductive concept for me. I just wouldn't try it as a DIY.
Someday I want to have sinuplasty (they open the sinus passages with the same kind of balloons they use to open arteries). I know a few people who've done it and say it's wonderful. And there's also an option of cauterizing the air passages that keeps them from swelling shut that's supposed to "cure" asthma. I don't yet know anyone who's had that done, although it sounds promising.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:15 pm

The nature of an allergy is that it strengthens with each exposure; so yes, relocating does give at least temporary relief. For example, I had the same "hay fever" in Indiana that everyone had - strong, disgusting stuff all the time - then moved to California and it was gone for about five years. (There are different pollens here than in Indiana.) Then they started up again - each exposure intensifying the reaction.
Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:23 pm
The worst week of my life began August 4, 2003, when I started having trouble breathing because the stupid city decided to widen several roads in the area at once during a very hot, dry period, just as the ragweed came into bloom. It ended the 22nd at the emergency clinic with an epinephrine shot and an oxygen mask. There were some really horrific days (the 9th and the 18th especially) including deaths that hit hard. The astrology of that time is... strange. Clearly there is something I'm missing. T Jupiter + T Uranus conj/opp N Jupiter. Really?
I'd think the Jupiter-Uranus to Jupiter, if anything, was the medical intervention. I've wasted a lot of good Jupiter transits by getting sufficiently sick right before that the Jupiter was (whoop-de-doo) getting over it. <sigh>

Neptune was approximately square your Mars at the time - a little wide for a plain transit, but perfectly good if we found this on, say, a Lunar Return angle. (In fact, there was a partile Sun-Neptune opposition the day it started.) Was this in Elkhorn?

Similarly, Saturn was conjunct your Uranus, not quite partile. Doesn't seem a direct hit of the event you described, but a definite disruptive PITA.

Beginning the 9th, Mars retrograded into opposition to your Sun - inflammation effects, physical hardship, body fight back with its defense systems, etc.

(Off to do some calculating, then:) If this was in Elkhorn, we do get exactly what I was looking for: Your SLR for July 20, though with Jupiter at MC, has a tight Mercury-Neptune opposition square your rising Mars: Sensitivity, breathing, inflammation, fearful anxiety, everything I can imagine about it:

16°12' Lib SLR Asc
17°24' Cap Neptune
18°54' Lib r Mars
19°09' Can Mercury

The Demi-SLR August 3, besides natal Mercury at MC, has Mars closely square Ascendant, and Pluto closer to Asc than is comfortable in this situation (3°).

By August 16, you had a new SLR and for the same spot, it has... yup, natal Mars setting (not quite as closely), still squared by Neptune..

So, for astrology's sake, I hope this was in Nebraska :)

You were also at the tail end of a Solar Return with... Mars at Midheaven and a partile Moon-Pluto opposition. (m I fantasizing, or did you really think you were going to die a few times during the ordeal? The SLR bespeaks "crisis" in any case.) When transiting Uranus was conjoining your natal Jupiter in August, it was also (even more closely) opposing SSR Mars and crossing SSR IC.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:17 pm

Oh, and regardless of where you lived, progressed SSR Moon August 4 was 2°36' Gemini, a week short of exact conjunction with your natal Saturn. That's actually the biggest thing going besides the Neptune & Friends pounding your Mars.
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:59 pm

Yes, this was in Elkhorn. And it was more than a week - the 4th through the 22nd.
The 9th was the day my aunt, the last member of my family of my parent's generation, died.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:00 pm

Moon-Saturn!
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:09 pm

Yeah, I did think I was going to die more than once. And a couple times I was afraid I wouldn't. And then there was the epinephrine injection, so I wasn't the only one who thought dying was a possibility. Epinephrine is adrenaline. That was.. exciting.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Moon-Saturn..
The 18th at 7:30 AM, I had to let a little 6 lb cat named Trouble go. He was 5 years old. His kidneys had shut down, and there was nothing anybody could do. It's never easy to let a loved animal go, but that was the very worst. He was my little Troublesome Kitten, didn't matter where I was, there he was, and I still miss him.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:13 pm

:cry: Bindar Dundat. Man, that progressed Moon-Saturn conjunction month was something!
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:56 pm

Thanks for taking the time to go into the astrology. I have trouble looking at that time, and just got stuck in the Jupiter-Uranus stuff.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by SteveS » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:52 am

During my double whammy Moon-Saturn SSR 2016, I lost my two of my 3 cats which broke my heart, as well as the minor heart health problems.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:20 am

Yeah, exactly. I always had thought Venus to Saturn was the (emotional) heart-breaker, but it's the Moon that does that.

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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:25 am

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:20 am
Yeah, exactly. I always had thought Venus to Saturn was the (emotional) heart-breaker, but it's the Moon that does that.
Oh, Venus-Saturn can be a heart-breaker, too... but, more often than not, I see it in, say, care-taker situations, places where we demonstrate devotion. One still gets to express Venus, still has someone to love, and that's different then having them gone.

BTW, one of the earliest medical astrology particulars I learned was that Venus-Saturn was common for congenital heart defects. I haven't been able to confirm that in a large scale, though it has certainly shown in at least a handful of individual cases. It may be entirely psychosomatic (which, actually, I think is behind most illness, even overtly organic defects), because it does lead to being "heart-sick." As a natal aspect, in non-trivial congenital defect cases, it certainly limits the activities of childhood, so may also have that as an indirect meaning. I'm not oblivious to the fact that I was just diagnosed with a heart that pumps lower volumes just as progressed Venus and Saturn move into a seven-year conjunction.
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Re: Astrology of health & sickness

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:48 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:25 am
Oh, Venus-Saturn can be a heart-breaker, too... but, more often than not, I see it in, say, care-taker situations, places where we demonstrate devotion. One still gets to express Venus, still has someone to love, and that's different then having them gone.
I've always thought of Venus-Saturn as the heart-burdener - love expressed as duty, especially the duty of care. There's also the psychological truth that caring for someone who's dying usually causes a self-protective pulling back and emotional blocking off,(distancing) so the caretaking can become nothing more than duty with no recognition of the bond, and then the heart is guilty and shattered when the person at the other end of the connection that's being severed dies.

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