Introduction, Chart and Observations

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parzival77
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Introduction, Chart and Observations

Post by parzival77 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:26 pm

According to my birth certificate, I was born September 26, 1998, 1:20 AM, Pernik, Bulgaria.

Hello everyone. Allow me to introduce myself. For the past year I have studied Tropical, especially Traditional Medieval and Hellenistic astrology (Mathesis, Tetrabiblos, the nine books of Valens, Dorotheus, parts of Lilly etc.). I had quite satisfying results at divination using seven planets, terms, whole sign aspects, arabic parts, house rulership, annual profections, primary directions, zodiacal releasing though I have been lurking on this forum from time to time until I read this post today:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:48 am
I know I'm speaking strongly on this, but I don't mean to foreclose the idea that planets in houses have meaning. (I do mean to disparage house rulership/dispositorship, and the kind of thinking that goes with it, in the strongest terms.) Your statement above basically says, "Sidereal returns have planets in the right houses, and Tropical returns don't"... right? I got really really good at "house rulership Tetris" as a Tropicalist, and, looking back, see that I was doing more astromancy than astrology, i.e., using a horoscope much as I might use Tarot cards - unconsciously knowing the answer and continuing to stare until I found the right rulerships and similar connections to justify my conclusions. (I did get into writing before 1972 that Nixon wouldn't survive his second term, though it wouldn't be because of his death; but I don't really want to take credit for that being an astrological prediction, though it came entirely from looking at his Tropical-Placidus horoscope <g>.)

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1463&p=8659 - I can say from experience that mixing horary and astrology was disastrous. Morinus and Kepler were going in a right direction by focusing more on mathematics than cleromancy.

Jim, this is exactly how I feel about what I am doing with Hellenistic Astrology for the last 6 months. Tetris sortilege.

Having taken a look at most interpretations of my planets in the signs and their aspects - http://www.solunars.org/interp/, and some charts of my friends, relatives and famous people I much prefer your method of working.

A few questions about my natal chart:
1. Foreground Sun and Mercury in Virgo conjunct exactly IC - their different interpretations from the forum are spot on. But what about when they are considered together as an exact conjunction with their sextiles to Moon/Pluto and Neptune/Uranus?
2. Moon in Scorpio - with the exception of music and somewhat maths (I am not terrible at it though) your description is right - is this because my Moon in Scorpio is somewhat afflicted or near its fall degree?
3. Also in traditional astrology the Moon has a much larger orb than the rest of the planets, would you pay closer attention to its wide sextile to Venus and trine to Jupiter in sidereal?
4. Jupiter is exact trine to Ascendant (Venus has close sextile) - in Traditional Tropical that just means the planet is very active, but I am curious about the aspect from a sidereal perspective.

Most things on the aspects from the forum are true, but a bit too broad, though I understand ''cookbook'' style doesn’t take the entire chart into account and you have connect things yourself. I think there are lots of aspects in my chart (? - don't have much experience with the outer planets), but I am most curious in the area of occultism. I would appreciate information in this area.

My sidereal placements make sense compared to modern tropical nonsense. That is what got me in traditional astrology in the first place, the signs don't play much of a factor at all aside from sortilige reasons). Though I haven't given up astromancy as a viable divination method, I much prefer sidereal astrology.

I have many questions (paralels, parans, progressions, transits etc.) but I will try to research these myself before bothering anyone with my neophyte enthusiasm. Thanks.

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Re: Introduction, Chart and Observations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:57 pm

parzival77 wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:26 pm
A few questions about my natal chart:
1. Foreground Sun and Mercury in Virgo conjunct exactly IC - their different interpretations from the forum are spot on. But what about when they are considered together as an exact conjunction with their sextiles to Moon/Pluto and Neptune/Uranus?
What's the exact question?

You say the individual interpretations for Sun and Mercury angular are accurate and, of course, the Sun-Mercury conjunction interpretation would be very important - It's an aspect that is foreground, hard, involves a luminary, only 0°04', reinforces its sign placement... there would be every expectation that the aspect is the strongest of your chart. Is this so?

The Moon and Pluto sextiles are weaker. For one thing, they are sextiles and, for another, they are wider. Not excessively... but wider. You have numerous aspects closer than these (and once you bring in the Moon sextile you certainly want to consider the Neptune trine also, yes?)

The only thing that seems contradictory here - that sets up an oppositional tension - is that 0°11' Moon-Neptune sextile contrasted to the intense Mercury aspect. Irrationally screws with the Virgo mind, and at least requires that you need to become mindful of, and regularly attentive to, subconscious messages, intuitions, etc. - otherwise, this would probably drive you a little crazy :) (And the Neptune is foreground also, only about 7° above Descendant.)
2. Moon in Scorpio - with the exception of music and somewhat maths (I am not terrible at it though) your description is right - is this because my Moon in Scorpio is somewhat afflicted or near its fall degree?
Well, any Scorpio Moon is in its fall. Perhaps being close to 3° makes it more so. I'm a little surprised the music side doesn't show, given the Neptune elements, but I take your word for it. I have no clear, black and white explanation. A couple of thoughts: Is the Virgo + extra Mercury hyper rationality so strong it deflects you from the arts? (Aren't you at least interested in music theory? It's a great Virgo preoccupation.) Or... how do you do with other things that require discipline and commitment? Several things in your chart suggest these might not be your strongest traits.
3. Also in traditional astrology the Moon has a much larger orb than the rest of the planets, would you pay closer attention to its wide sextile to Venus and trine to Jupiter in sidereal?
On my craziest day, I wouldn't count a trine, sextile, or square past 7°30', so that rules out your Moon-Jupiter (7°52'). The Venus at 5°55' is wider than I normally would bother with, though I consider it technically present.

Nothing I've seen has ever led me to believe some planets (e.g., luminaries) have larger orbs than others. But... I'll try to state this carefully, because I think it's a subtle point... while the aspect orbs are a mathematical function that is consistent with all planets, some aspects are more relevant, and therefore show up more obviously in a person character. For example, while I usually start looking only at aspects within about 3° (to get the most important "voices" in a chart), I let my eyes wander to luminary aspects in the second column (out to 5-6°) because luminary aspects are quite central to one's. I don't think of this as giving them a wider orb, because I consider all the other aspects at that orb equally valid... but perhaps not as relevant. (My Neptune-Pluto sextile, though partile, doesn't really distinguish me from anybody else born in the same half century.)
4. Jupiter is exact trine to Ascendant (Venus has close sextile) - in Traditional Tropical that just means the planet is very active, but I am curious about the aspect from a sidereal perspective.
Angles don't make aspects. None at all. Ever. - Angles are locations, not bodies. ("Squares to angles" are really conjunctions with other angles, e.g. a planet 90° earlier in the zodiac than Ascendant is actually conjunct the Zenith.)
The most important thing about your Jupiter is its close opposition to Venus, < 2°, a dynamic aspect (opposition), and middleground (halfway between the maximum expressiveness of the angle and the minimum expressiveness of the cadent cusp).

Despite the clarity of this ne aspect, Jupiter is one of your weaker planets. Nothing is in Sagittarius. The closest thing to a Jupiter emphasis is Mars (a strong ego=-themed planet) being in Cancer. Jupiter doesn't connect to either luminary and isn't angular. Nothing draws it into expression.
I think there are lots of aspects in my chart (? - don't have much experience with the outer planets), but I am most curious in the area of occultism. I would appreciate information in this area.
Each planet pair is within 3° (either side, so a 6° band) of one of the five Ptolemaic aspects (eight spots around the zodiac) 48/360 of the time. There are 45 planetary pairs (among 10 planets), so an average chart has six aspects in this range: six Ptolemaic aspects within 3° is expected on average. You have four.

Feel free to ask your other questions :)
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

parzival77
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Re: Introduction, Chart and Observations

Post by parzival77 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:21 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:57 pm
The only thing that seems contradictory here - that sets up an oppositional tension - is that 0°11' Moon-Neptune sextile contrasted to the intense Mercury aspect. Irrationally screws with the Virgo mind, and at least requires that you need to become mindful of, and regularly attentive to, subconscious messages, intuitions, etc. - otherwise, this would probably drive you a little crazy (And the Neptune is foreground also, only about 7° above Descendant.)
Yes, I am constantly trying to rationalise intuition and occultism.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:57 pm
Well, any Scorpio Moon is in its fall. Perhaps being close to 3° makes it more so. I'm a little surprised the music side doesn't show, given the Neptune elements, but I take your word for it. I have no clear, black and white explanation. A couple of thoughts: Is the Virgo + extra Mercury hyper rationality so strong it deflects you from the arts? (Aren't you at least interested in music theory? It's a great Virgo preoccupation.) Or... how do you do with other things that require discipline and commitment? Several things in your chart suggest these might not be your strongest traits.
I love poetry (I got a sense of rhythm, rhyme etc. in it), music and visual arts, though I am not great at musical theory or atleast I haven't tried much (I've played a musical instrument very little some ten years ago).

You are absolutely right that I am not great at discipline and commitment which is what is causing me troubles in my meditation and yoga. I consider myself as having a good intellectual and theoretical grasp of psychology, philosophy, religions (I read a lot) and I do practice these, though I admit my bad discipline. I have to work on this...
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:57 pm
Angles don't make aspects. None at all. Ever. - Angles are locations, not bodies. ("Squares to angles" are really conjunctions with other angles, e.g. a planet 90° earlier in the zodiac than Ascendant is actually conjunct the Zenith.)
The most important thing about your Jupiter is its close opposition to Venus, < 2°, a dynamic aspect (opposition), and middleground (halfway between the maximum expressiveness of the angle and the minimum expressiveness of the cadent cusp).

Despite the clarity of this ne aspect, Jupiter is one of your weaker planets. Nothing is in Sagittarius. The closest thing to a Jupiter emphasis is Mars (a strong ego=-themed planet) being in Cancer. Jupiter doesn't connect to either luminary and isn't angular. Nothing draws it into expression.
The Hellenistic authors thought planets aspect even empty sign-houses as well, though I don't agree with that, it probably stuck in my mind. Yes you are right.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:57 pm
Each planet pair is within 3° (either side, so a 6° band) of one of the five Ptolemaic aspects (eight spots around the zodiac) 48/360 of the time. There are 45 planetary pairs (among 10 planets), so an average chart has six aspects in this range: six Ptolemaic aspects within 3° is expected on average. You have four.
:D

Thanks for all. You got the discipline part.

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