My Son Josh

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mikestar13
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My Son Josh

Post by mikestar13 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:34 pm

Data for my firstborn son Joshua: January 4, 2000, 8:17am, Torrance CA first breath personally timed by me in the delivery room (delivery by c-section).

Josh's Neptune could be more angular by not by much. With Sagittarius Sun and Scorpio Moon thrown into the mix along with a very backgound Jupiter (deeper in the background than mine, but trine Moon and sextile Mars rather than my unaspected Jupiter) we have some common themes--we get each other, but clash now and again in the way people who are similar do (perhaps the similarity makes the differences stand out more--a principle is was familiar with before I started learning astrology).

Josh's current concerns are the state of my health (and his mom's as well), our precarious financial situation, and his senior year of high school including all the preparation for college. Any insights would be appreciated--besides, after I published his brother David's data on the autism/Asperger's thread he's had just a little bit of jealousy that he'd never admit to (even to himself).
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Re: My Son Josh

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:45 am

Josh is a Saggitarius-Scorpio with a closely angular Neptune (sextile his Venus 2°06' ), and angular Uranus, both in Capricorn. Neptune is 0°23' from Ascendant (in mundo) specifically and Uranus is 2°04' from Westpoint.
Moon, Mercury and Jupiter are in the background.

You both have a Spoke Sun with a Hub & Rim Moon. There may be a slight competition issue between the two of you as your Suns square each other. (1°20') Your Uranus and Neptune are closely on his Ascendant and your Mercury is tightly aspecting your son's Jupiter. Moon-Jupiter contacts are both ways. Josh's Venus is closely opposite your Asc/Desc (0°33' ), he is very fond of you. His Mars is opposite your Pluto and widely squaring your Asc/Desc. As you can see you both have many nice interchanges and oh his Mercury is also squaring your Venus. (2°05')
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Jim Eshelman
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Re: My Son Josh

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:36 am

Sagittarius-Scorpio, Mars in Aquarius, Neptune 0°23' from Ascendant, Uranus 1°52' from EP. Not a lot of aspects, but, yes, the closest is Venus sextile the rising Neptune. Jupiter is in the immediate background, but its hard to consider Jupiter underplayed in a Sagittarian chart.

The strongest impression of the chart is that it favors living in inner worlds and unfolding of ideas, rather than outward dynamism. Charts absent strong, dynamic aspects, like this one, lean that way, and both angular planets lean that way (though Uranus surely wants to burst out and find new horizons - but that, too, could be ideological). And, of course, Sag finds it easy to lean that way. And the only strong aspect is to that passive, inner-world leaning Neptune, and a passive aspect to a passive planet.

He is surely charming and gracious. The Scorpio Moon can have a bite, but it's welcome in this chart. Sagittarius leans to being well-mannered, and rising Neptune with its aspects adds grace.

So far the two themes that jump out at me (take these as "representative," not specifics) are science fiction and hospitality. I don't think you mentioned his actual interests, but these themes might things going down a useful road.

The great strength of the chart, in addition to the virtues of softness and grace, is that Hub Moon, supported by a Hub Mars. There is a tendency to drift shown by most parts of the chart, but the Scorpio (Hub) Moon gives capacity depth, a tendency to look under the skirt of the universe to see how it actually works.

Given economics, he might be exploring some of the excellent schools near where you live. If he wants to get just a little farther away, there are amazing JC's, depending on his interest, including Fullerton and LACC, just to name a couple. But if he wants to spread his wings, San Francisco is primed for success, and places like Denver or even Albuquerque could wake him up and get his fascination churning with new possibilities.

Saturn is sitting squarely on his Moon. It will last through the end of the year. It will be harder for him to shake a sense of psychological burden or weight - even depression - between now and then. The best side of this transit is being self-made, struggling through - but he doesn't have a tough chart. This next six months will be some of the most inwardly challenging (maybe reflected in outwardly challenging) of his young life so far. And then he'll get through that and move on. Next year he has stretches of Jupiter crossing his MC.

The long-term good news is that he's primed to move into the world, be his own person, and start discovering who that is over the next very few years. Progressed Sun is 1°38' from his natal Ascendant now, meaning that it will move within 1° orb early next year. The downside is that it will conjoin his Neptune at the same time, adding confusion and disorientation for the same two year stretch that begins early next year. My advice is: Use the disorientation. Understand that you aren't expected to have yourself and your life or even your career direction figured out at 18. Make it a quest, a process, a flowing. Progressed Sun conjunct natal Ascendant is indeed a two-year stretch of self-discovery, and only self-recrimination for feeling lost etc. can get in the way. Do something Neptunian. Make this a Hero's Quest in the mythic sense.
Jim Eshelman
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TheScales_BothWays
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Re: My Son Josh

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:19 am

(Looks like Jim had already posted a reply by the time I've finished typing this looong post, but here's my take anyway: :) )

Hey Mikestar,

Fellow forum member, Florence did a great job analysing the synastry between you and your son. You both have such a wonderful connection I don't seem to often find in other father-son synastries. :)

The Sun-Sun square shows the similarity and also the clash that comes from being too similar and yet very different. Both Sagittarius and Pisces are spokes and are traditionally ruled by Jupiter, hence they do share similar traits. You both also have Martial Moons and he has Neptune angular while you have a Pisces Sun—more similarities! But first and foremost, he's your son, of course he would be so similar to you. :D
His Jupiter to your Mercury shows that he values your opinions very much (most of the time, at least), he listens to you, and he is obedient to your requests and commands. Jim has found that Mercury-Jupiter co-aspects are very common between the charts of parents and children. 😊

Though his Sun-Saturn trine seems to suggest that you're a little strict on him, though maybe not too strict (as it's a 3° trine), and his angular Neptune is suggesting that he's very close to Mummy too. (Unless you're his "maternal figure" too, showing constant affection and nurture.)

Is Joshua still in Torrance, or is he with you in Redlands?
Regardless, in both locations, his SSR features a Sun-Pluto conjunction on his Descendant (Sun is partile setting in both places) with a partile Moon-Saturn square that partile connects to his natal Moon as well (0°00'!). He is very conscious of his goals and ambitions, but worldly pressures weigh upon him significantly. That Sun-Pluto may mean that an unexpected shocking event will (or has) affect(ed) his life during the course of this year, where he may be left alone to face the music and guard himself. He is extra sensitive to his emotions this year, and he'd definitely love the support and warmth of his mother or a motherly figure he much respects (could be you too). He is strongly tuned to his surroundings too (and he already has sensitive Neptune on his natal Ascendant, moreover) thus is really happy when happy, and really depressed when sad. His Moon-Saturn shows that this is a stressful year and that he his holding up his feelings, maybe appetite too. Others or his environment may appear harsh to him, his health/vitality/energy is low (despite his Sun angular on the descendant) and his mother's health should be kept in check too.

Things may have been better when Jupiter's station squared his Sun this past May and June, it was a needed relief for him, and it brought much cheer, happiness and energy back into his life. Oh, and some prosperity too. 😊

Currently Saturn is being conjunct his Moon, this is intensified with his current lunar return of 6th July, where in Redlands, has his Moon partile squaring MC and Saturn partile on the eastpoint. Your son is probably very much depressed right now, maybe much worried about Mummy too :( but for reference, here's Jim's standard interpretation for the transit:
SATURN aspecting Natal MOON
A strong incentive to achievement and determined hard work. Emotional matters are likely more difficult, however. Practical concerns are easier to handle than those of the heart. You feel more vulnerable than usual, and more responsive to the harsh, demanding, unsupportive facets of your environment. Emotionally cautious, preferring the safety of seclusion to the exposure of participation, you dwell too easily on negative thoughts. Security is very important to you at this time. Deep, genuine feelings are more easily withheld or masked. Nurture needs are greater than at other times, but you may be less willing to accept this kind of support. Look, consciously and attentively, for the warm, caring, giving side of people to balance your temporarily narrowed window on others. The protection and certainty of a proper "nest" can be especially comforting now, and free your carefully warded feelings for your pleasure and others'.
IN BRIEF: Practical matters do better than emotional ones. Somber, distant, cautious; separation from nurturing; perhaps wounded pride, loss, feeling misunderstood. Security needs increase. Others seem unsympathetic.
His mother's health may have worsened during the course of this return too...
Saturn-Moon transits have brought two long periods of sadness and loneliness to my life, once when I was 10, a Saturn-Pluto square connected to my Moon via the 45° and 135° aspects. My cousins who came to stay at my home for a week (which then became a month due to some reasons) finally went back home, and thus came a long period of loneliness. Being at home was depressing, at it was too silent. At school things were better as there were friends and company. The next one was at early 2014 where I was basically very insecure about myself and my body and thus another period of depression due to my insecurities.

This transit only ends by early this October. It'd be great if he has the support of his mother or a maternal figure (or at least a parental figure like you), and it would also be great if he sees his mother (and you too) being happy or optimistic despite you and your wife's health conditions.
The period between the 6th to 20th of February may have been harsh and sad/bad too, with Venus ~1° degree from the Asc in mundo and Saturn partile square the Ascendant.

Next year he has Saturn on SSR IC, but I believe this shows his growing and maturing up, getting ready for the outer practical world, though his home or private inner life could still may be in some trouble, and there may still be burdens and pressures placed upon him. But not everything is just grey, gloomy Saturn, there is some excitement and fun with his SSR Moon opposing his natal Uranus and squaring SSR Mars-Jupiter. And oh, some Jupiter transits once Jupiter enters Libra. :)

Regards,
TheScales_BothWays 😊

Thanks for reading! 😄

mikestar13
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Re: My Son Josh

Post by mikestar13 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:23 am

Thanks to all for the detailed replies. Nothing thus far written contradicts any delineations I've made or anything I've observed in the last 17 1/2 years , but I am grateful for the enhanced understanding.

The sometimes (OK, too damn often) over-strictness on my part mainly manifests as demanding intellectual rigor rather than being more flexible with facts--mind you, in the context of one Neptune's child to another. (The analogy with Sidereal vs. Tropical astrologers is inevitable.) I've never been strict in the "rules guy" sense and I think his innate good judgement is better developed because of it. Though the whole intellectual rigor thing can be a stress point (he calls me "Correctazoid" not entirely inaccurately), he has used it advantageously--he gets that whether his Old Man is being too heavy-handed is not the same question as whether or not the Old Man has a point. In his early childhood my wife and I had observed that limited or non-existent knowledge of the facts not only didn't stop Josh, it didn't even slow him down: a tendency which we found both charming and alarming. OTOH, Josh is a genuine master of the Neptunian art of "making up a true story": his flights of fancy have a fine track record of finding truth somewhere over whatever weird rainbow.

Josh is indeed living with us in Redlands.
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Re: My Son Josh

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:02 am

Thank you for your response, Mikestar 😊
mikestar13 wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:23 am
In his early childhood my wife and I had observed that limited or non-existent knowledge of the facts not only didn't stop Josh, it didn't even slow him down: a tendency which we found both charming and alarming.
I don't quite understand this one though; did you mean that it didn't stop him (Josh) from finding the truth, or making up his own truths, (which may be at worst, fallacious, and hence, alarming)?

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Re: My Son Josh

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:16 pm

TheScales_BothWays wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:02 am
Thank you for your response, Mikestar 😊
mikestar13 wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:23 am
In his early childhood my wife and I had observed that limited or non-existent knowledge of the facts not only didn't stop Josh, it didn't even slow him down: a tendency which we found both charming and alarming.
I don't quite understand this one though; did you mean that it didn't stop him (Josh) from finding the truth, or making up his own truths, (which may be at worst, fallacious, and hence, alarming)?
Actually, both at once. The parenting challenge was discouraging his making up false "truths" inadvertently, while encouraging his intuitive truth-finding ability. As he's aged, he's learned the very non-Neptunian concept of reality checking, which was substantially improved his truth-finding accuracy (which was say 75-25 initially, impressive vs. pure guessing, but still troublesome a fair amount of the time).

I had the same tendency myself in childhood, though to a lesser degree. It's been said "If the lesson isn't learned, it will be repeated harder." This can apparently apply cross-generationally as well.
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