Pluto Ruler of Aries

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Jim Eshelman
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Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:08 pm

(Cyril Fagan in "Solunars," January 1955 installment.)
In the foregoing we have seen how, under the impact of the transits to the natal Pluto, the native's erratic, wayward, or antisocial conduct at the time may lead him into conflict with society to the extent of jeopardizing his freedom and endangering his life. When Pluto is itself the transiting planet, then it is the natives turn to be exposed to the wayward and erratic actions of the world about him. The transits of Pluto are the ost dramatic and most eventful of all configurations and seldom fail to produce a marked crisis in one's life and precipitate immediate action. If Mars, as ruler of Scorpio, is the significator of passion, sport, contests, and heated arguments, Pluto is surely the planet of invasions, political upheavals, revolutions, liquidations, concentration camp and, in short, cold-blooded war. This accords with its rulership of the imperial Aries and the behavior of its motion, for when in October, 1989, it comes to its perihelion (Libra 17°47') it will have invaded the orbit of Neptune to the extent of 35 million miles! An examination of the horoscopes of the chief political figures demonstrates that it was the transit of Pluto that was responsible for the two World Wars as well as for the French Revolution.
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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by SteveS » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:39 pm

The first thing that jumped into my mind when I saw your post here, is DC's 2020 Capsolar, where t. Pluto comes into partile orb cnj an angular Sun, not to mention t. Saturn exact cnj Capsolar Sun, MC, Mercury during this solar year. Of course this precedes by one year the DC Mars-Saturn Capsolar in 2021, definitely not good. I have t. Jupiter entering partile cnj to n. Mercury now, which has being going off/on partile n. Mercury last couple of months. I think I see something very important financially for USA with DC's 2020 Capsolar, which I will later post and try to explain in your thread Future Capsolars.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by By Jove » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:39 pm

If Mars, as ruler of Scorpio, is the significator of passion, sport, contests, and heated arguments, Pluto is surely the planet of invasions, political upheavals, revolutions, liquidations, concentration camp and, in short, cold-blooded war.
Something smells a little off here when Mars, the very god of war and calamities, isn't associated with war and calamities.

Maybe I'm wrong here but astrologers from Egypt to Rome have described Mars as the planet of such things as pestilences, bloody warfare, crime, the deaths of leaders, and violent usurpations. It also signified various "anti-Venus" things such as relationships breaking apart, rape, and the death of partners. Mars is a malefic for a reason.
Last edited by By Jove on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by By Jove » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:09 pm

An addendum: if you're going to talk about prominent commanders and dictators over the last 100 years, then you have about an equal amount of Aries and Scorpio Suns, with quite a lot of Sagittarius Suns too, surprisingly enough. The prominent Aries Suns in WW II were Hitler, President Trueman in the latter days of the war, and Emperor Hirohito. Fagan also describes many Scorpios being prominent in WW II from Churchill, Charles de Gaul, and Rommel, and does state himself that many Scorpios were prominent in the war. Among Sagittarius Suns, we had Stalin and Mao Zedong. The trend seems to continue after WW II. The most prominent Aries Sun dictator since then was Saddam Hussein, while the post-WW II world had to deal with two Scorpio dictators; Franco and Pinochet. And don't even get me started with the mafia, whose most notorious members had Scorpio and Capricorn Suns; there's cold-blooded war for you.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by James Condor » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:46 am

Just by logic alone, I have been on the Pluto does rule Aries belief. In order of planets; Uranus-Aquarius, Neptune-Pisces, Pluto-Aries and so on.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:06 am

James Condor wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:46 am
Just by logic alone, I have been on the Pluto does rule Aries belief. In order of planets; Uranus-Aquarius, Neptune-Pisces, Pluto-Aries and so on.
That's a schematic argument, not observational, but it does seem to be a pattern evident in the nature of the signs. I endorse it,

There's another wholly theoretical argument that I'll mention because I find it humorous. When Pluto was first discovered, one argument for its rulership of Scorpio - one that was expressed and kept alive by 1930s era editions of Llewellyn George's epochal A to Z - went like this: Pluto is the god of death. The 8th house is the house of death. In the accepted Aries-rising model of sign-to-house analogies, Scorpio is the 8th house. Pluto rules Scorpio.

But with what we know post-Fagan, the argument should read: Pluto is the god of death. The 7th house is the house of death. In the original Libra-rising model of sign-to-house analogies, Aries is the 7th house. Pluto rules Aries.

Purely theoretical, of course, but I love the way it stands the original 1930s justification on its head.
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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:14 am

And just to screw with people's head a little more: At one point, Fagan speculated that the solar and lunar rulership cycles (emanating two directions outward from Cancer-Leo) gave separate rulership schemes for Sun and Moon in the signs. I don't buy it mostly because, having Moon in Aquarius, I'm acutely aware of how Uranian it is (and how utterly in-Saturnian I am overall). Nonetheless, it has enough in it to twist your mind and keep it preoccupied for a while. It looks like this:

Sun rules Leo
Moon rules Cancer

FOR SUN IN THE CONSTELLATIONS:
Virgo: Mercury
Libra: Venus
Scorpio: Mars
Sagittarius: Jupiter
Capricorn: Saturn
Aquarius: Uranus
Pisces: Neptune
Aries: Pluto
Taurus: (Venus or undiscovered planet)
Gemini: (Mercury or undiscovered planet)

FOR MOON IN THE CONSTELLATIONS:
Gemini: Mercury
Taurus: Venus
Aries: Mars
Pisces: Jupiter
Aquarius: Saturn
Capricorn: Uranus
Sagittarius: Neptune
Scorpio: Pluto
Libra: (Venus or undiscovered planet)
Virgo (Mercury or undiscovered planet)
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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by By Jove » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:17 am

I think there is a lot of hype over Pluto, and way too many people (Fagan included, sadly) that seem to regard Pluto as some kind of ramped up Mars, assuming all the qualities astrologers associated with Mars since antiquity. (Meanwhile, Fagan downgrades Mars to merely being about sports and arguments.) You don't see Ouranos taking over all of Saturn's qualities or Neptune taking over all of Jupiters.

My two cents:

When it comes down to violent social changes, revolutions, massive upheavals etc. are Mars and Ouranos. The events are often grandiose (Ouranos) and traumatizing (Mars), and events deal with large populations or the human race as a whole, with little concern over the individual.

Pluto has more to do with personal psychological changes and the grand cycles of birth/reincarnation/etc. and generally has a positive and reviving influence. Pluto's effects are like spring cleaning or going to therapy to resolve your deep personal issues, or some major personal event that profoundly shapes your psychology. Pluto has a heavy atomistic emphasis, so concerned with the individual it is almost to the point of solipsism.

The mythological archetypes speak to this as well. Mars/Ares/Nergel/Yahweh were always violent, rapacious, and vengeful. Even the benevolent Horus (Egypt's Mars archetype) was a warrior and avenger of his father's death, someone who would retaliate an eye for an eye. Sekhmet (Egypt's Martial counterpart to the Venereal Hathor) nearly wiped out the entire human race to punish humans for their wickedness.

Ouranos/Caelus/Atum/Holy Spirit were the primordial first lords of the universe and represented the boundless cosmos. And many of them met violent struggles or even violent demises during those ancient times that shaped the fundamental nature of the cosmos/reality as we know it.

Pluto/Hades/Osiris/Ptah by contrast were all comparatively gentle benevolent gods who did not involve themselves in mortal affairs, instead spending most of their time hidden in the underworld. They judged individuals after death based on their individual actions, and then rewarded/punished them accordingly in a completely impartial and just way.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:27 am

I don't know any leading Siderealist (Fagan included) who regards/regarded Pluto as some kind of ramped up Mars. Fagan was quite the opposite, in fact: He described Pluto angularity and luminary aspects as bringing about the gentlest of behaviors unless the Pluto were afflicted.

Tropicalists, on the other hand, have long considered Pluto the "higher octave" of Mars, and I know you still immerse yourself in Tropicalist communities. I suspect that's where you're getting this impression,

It isn't the marsy side of Aries that seems Plutonian to me - if necessary, that can all be explained as the constellation being RIm, solar, and anti-venereal. To me, the outstanding characteristics are that Aries is foremost a constellation of paradox, being hard to categorize in conventional either-or labels, emotionally and socially removed and isolative in a libertarian-0individualist sense, etc. None of that is martial which, if not simple, is at least straightforward and direct.
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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by By Jove » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:42 am

In Fagan's own words:
If Mars, as ruler of Scorpio, is the significator of passion, sport, contests, and heated arguments, Pluto is surely the planet of invasions, political upheavals, revolutions, liquidations, concentration camp and, in short, cold-blooded war.
If my impression is wrong, then I apologize, and I would like to be corrected.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:04 am

Remind me... Was that from something he wrote in the '40s or early '50s? It wasn't his view later. The events he describes are correct, but not the motive. The motive is pure disruption and over-turning the status quo, which can be violent or not (but often is).
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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by By Jove » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:13 am

Cyril Fagan in "Solunars," January 1955 installment. I didn't know he changed his views over time. My bad.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:15 am

Jove, you're picking bits and pieces out of the quote at the top of this thread (from Jan 1955 "Solunars" article in AA) trying to say that's Fagan's entire opinion of what Mars and Pluto represent. It's not. Read the whole quote. He's describing transits of other planets to Pluto. Mars is angry and hot-blooded. Pluto is cold blooded, and deadly, but not necessarily violent. What's the difference between invading a country and dropping a nuclear bomb on it? One is battles and fighting and blood under your fingernails. The other is intended to end the fighting.
That's very relevant to our current diplomatic situation. North Korea thinks it could survive nuclear war as a country and as a regime. It's trying to threaten Mars, and doesn't understand it's talking about Pluto.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by DDonovanKinsolving » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:37 pm

Fagan compared and contrasted Mars and Pluto with Venus, from American Astrology “Solunars” March, 1958. This is not a direct comparison of Mars and Pluto, but it is interesting for the ways he creates sets of antonyms for for Venus-Mars and Venus-Pluto in semantic space.
Fagan wrote: As the reader will have noticed the P.S.S.R.s have so far demonstrated that deaths, departures, severance of ties and farewells have coincided with Pluto on one or other of the angles thus giving rise to the opinion that Pluto is the significator of termination, finality, the end. This opinion was considerably strengthened the other day when a friend of mine dismissed a servant who had proved to be a nuisance, on the day that his solar Pluto was precisely on the Midheaven of his P.S.S.R. Hence Pluto also emerges as the significator of riddance, deliverance, extrication, liberation, abolition, ejection, expulsion, eviction, discharge, voidance and clearance, …

As Venus is the significator of life, love, union, intercourse, attachment, wedlock, communion and coalescence, its influence is accordingly diametrically opposite to that of Pluto which supports the view that the latter's diurnal constellation is Aries and its nocturnal constellation Scorpio, which are diametrically opposite to Libra and Taurus respectively, the diurnal and nocturnal constellations of Venus. The influences of Pluto and Mars must not, however, be confounded. Pluto is not intrinsically a violent planet; it is just repellent. Mars on the other hand is violent, but not necessarily repellent. It will slaughter for food or indulge in contests which are forms of attraction and attachment. To repel commonly connotes dislike, if not hatred, and in that respect Pluto may be deemed a malefic and a rebel. In other respects, Pluto's severing, ridding, cancelling action can be life's greatest blessing.
This is the only instance I have found (so far) where Fagan tried to tease out distinctions between diurnal and nocturnal expressions of signs or planets. Fagan's interpretations are agreeable with the understandings of planetary sect: that diurnal planets act in ways that separate, and nocturnal planets tend toward community. (Venus and Mars are both of the nocturnal sect, and require some sort of togetherness to act.) If we were to place Pluto in this scheme, it would be a diurnal planet.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by DDonovanKinsolving » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:14 am
At one point, Fagan speculated that the solar and lunar rulership cycles (emanating two directions outward from Cancer-Leo) gave separate rulership schemes for Sun and Moon in the signs.
I can trace this sort of scheme back to issues of American Astrology in the 1930's as astrologers struggled to fit Pluto into the traditional rulership pattern. By the time you and I, Mr. E., became involved with astrology, Tropical schools had settled on the Pluto-Scorpio rulership. Fagan seemed to be the only astrologer who continued to put forward this pattern into the 1960's. Even when he proposed it, however, he always hedged the presentation with a disclaimer that it was the sort of schematism of which he was suspicious.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by James Condor » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:42 am

Yes I was being schematic in logic. My mother is very Arian, and my ex girlfriend whom I still see now and again. And I really do see the Plutonian paradox in them. My ex is actually quite gentle for the most part, and she deals with problems internally. She works through issues inside, then writes about them. She has a difficult time confronting people directly. She keeps secrets too. She makes plans but always changes them to an earlier time or day, but keeps them always. She is very loyal (Leo moon?) She has mercury rising. Born May 9 1992 11:11p.

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Re: Pluto Ruler of Aries

Post by By Jove » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:12 am

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:49 pm
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:14 am
At one point, Fagan speculated that the solar and lunar rulership cycles (emanating two directions outward from Cancer-Leo) gave separate rulership schemes for Sun and Moon in the signs.
I can trace this sort of scheme back to issues of American Astrology in the 1930's as astrologers struggled to fit Pluto into the traditional rulership pattern. By the time you and I, Mr. E., became involved with astrology, Tropical schools had settled on the Pluto-Scorpio rulership. Fagan seemed to be the only astrologer who continued to put forward this pattern into the 1960's. Even when he proposed it, however, he always hedged the presentation with a disclaimer that it was the sort of schematism of which he was suspicious.
I find the Tropical Pluto-Scorpio rulership odd, since most of those "Scorpios" are Libras, where Pluto is in detriment. (If we take Pluto to rule Aries beyond a reasonable doubt.)

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