Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Q&A and discussion on the meanings of the Zodiacal Constellations, Sun and Moon sign-meanings, etc.
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Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:20 am

Welcome to the Sun in Scorpio discussions project, which will run November 17 - December 16, 2017 (and then will remain around in case people want to revisit it in the future). Please gather your list of Sun in Scorpio people (especially those you know personally) and join us.

Here are Sun in Scorpio interpretive resources on the forum:
Primary section: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35#p162
Cyril Fagan: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=101#p607
Garth Allen: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33#p137
Rupert Gleadow: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=91#p568
Manilius: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=121#p745
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:19 am

The gates are open. (And I personally have a lot of months to catch up on.)
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:31 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:19 am
The gates are open. (And I personally have a lot of months to catch up on.)
The gates of Hell you mean? Ah, 2nd house humor. It always bothered me though how small your primary section notes on Scorpio and Aries are compared to the other signs. Maybe I'm being neurotic, but I always wished it equalized.

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:37 am

By Jove wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:31 am
It always bothered me though how small your primary section notes on Scorpio and Aries are compared to the other signs. Maybe I'm being neurotic, but I always wished it equalized.
Yes, you've mentioned it before. I think it's that Scorpio, in particular, is much simpler and straightforward. It's not about complexitis. (Aries is another matter: In some ways, it's highly complex, though most of that complexity is addressed in one or two statements about its inherently paradoxical nature.)

So, yes, either it's neurotic or you should be an editor. A respected magazine editor once commented that, when I'd write something about signs, I never made all the sections the same length. For the magazine and its readership, that's what they wanted. I said that I didn't have as much to say about some as the others.
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:04 am

I found that when it comes to Mars dominant people (myself included) true complexity of character lies in actions, strategies, and techniques people do in their lives, both to achieve personal goals and interact with other people. That speaks louder than having a "personality" or "state of being", which amounts to little on its own. All this I learned gradually over time as a composer and writer.
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:16 am

I had a brief chat with an astrologer some months back. We discussed Scorpio's mythology and exaltation to Ouranos.

I said:
Orion was a famous hunter who boasted to Artemis (his lover) and Leto (Artemis' mother) that he would kill every animal on earth. Artemis and Leto sent a scorpion in retaliation to kill Orion. The battle was so epic Zeus himself came over to watch, but the scorpion did kill Orion in the end. Zeus put both Scorpio and Orion in the sky as constellations as a lesson to mortals to curb their pride.

Leto (her name meaning disputed) was the daughter of Coeus and Phoebe. Coeus (name meaning questioning) represented rational intelligence and the earth's axis, around which the heavens revolved. Phoebe (name meaning shining) represented wisdom and prophecy. Together, Coeus and Phoebe represent primal knowledge of the entire cosmos. Further down the line, Leto was the granddaughter of Ouranos and Gaia.

In another version, Apollo was angry at Artemis and Orion becoming lovers, so he sent a scorpion to kill Orion. Artemis asked Zeus to put Orion in the night sky, so Zeus put both Orion and Scorpio. In either case, Scorpio forever chases Orion in the sky.

In another myth, Phaeton, mortal son of Apollo, drove his father's Sun Chariot for a day. Phaeton lost control over the white horses drawing the chariot, making him ride far too high, which chilled the earth. He approached the constellation Scorpio, which lashed out at him with its stinger, driving him too low to the earth. This caused all vegetation to burn, turned Africa into a desert, and blackened the skin of the Ethiopians. Zeus had to strike down Phaeton with a thunder bolt, killing him.

We see a similar theme in this Scorpio myth: a lesson for mortals to curb their pride. In your webpage on Zoroastrian sign rulers, you list Ate as co-ruling Scorpio with Ares, which makes sense. Ate once tricked Zeus into acting rashly, so he forever banished her from Olympus. In this respect, Ate resembles the Devil and fallen angels from Christianity. In Greek tragedy, Ate was the one who gave the tragic hero his hubris, causing his downfall. Her Roman name is Error, as in a fatal flaw in one's character or action.

I see a heavy association from Scorpio with vengeance, ruin, and damnation, but not so much with Ouranos. I'll touch on Ouranos in another post because this post is already way too long.
She said:
I see that for Uranus/Scorpio I have the quote, "The sky is the limit" as sometimes noted for tropical Sagittarius. I have some information on the God Uranus as lord of the sky, boundless and without limit, and sidereal Scorpio doesn't like limitation of any kind. Then I also have notes about the Uranian myth being full of violence...the Titans, etc. From the blood of Uranus the furies were born whose job was to avenge crime. I also have notes on the movies that came out during the Uranus transit of Scorpio. (I can never remember how to spell 'Ouranos' so I use Uranus which is our modern western spelling.)

Consider how Ouranos died, castration, which can be easily related to Scorpio, and Aphrodite was said to be born from his severed member (sex crimes, the dark side of Venus...Scorpio is the 8th house sign).
I said:
I do notice a lot of major astronomy and cosmology concepts named after Scorpios who made major advances in astronomy. (Ouranos, the infinite night sky etc.) Ouranos was discovered by William Herschel (Nov 15). The Hubble Space telescope and the Hubble Deep Field were named after Edwin Hubble (Nov 20). The Kuiper Belt was named after Gerard Kuiper (Dec 7). Even cosmologists like Albert Einstein and Carl Sagan had Scorpio Moons. Other prominent Scorpios in related fields are Freeman Dyson (Dec 15) and Werner Heisenberg (Dec 5) And so forth.

I will mention though how many prominent Aries Suns exist too, but they occupy more theoretical physics than astronomy. Aquarius and Sagittarius Suns are also abundant. So there is a Ouranos aspect to Scorpio in that respect.

From my experience I do note how Scorpio luminary musicians and composers sound "out of this world", as if beyond music itself. And the heavy dearth of Scorpio architects from Bernini to Paladeo. And architecture could also be considered a Ouranos thing as grand buildings seem to reach for the heavens.

Anyway, I have two threads on Scorpio in Solunars, which you may find relevant and important, both for the general mythology of the sign and for Ouranos.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=433
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1602

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by James Condor » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:42 am

The few Scorpios I know personally, show at times this strong arrogance as if nothing will go wrong in their pursuit of whatever it is at hand; This could be the "expect the protection of the gods". It is also competing, but, they would do it just to see they can, not because of social or peer pressure.
Also, Jim's overall interpretation is very solid and accurate. One example of this in particular is that they won't speak, low profile, unless a specific reason.
The freedom motif is very apparent.
They seem to lead by example and they are good at teaching others. They seem quite influential.

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:53 am

There's an important movie about Winston Churchill coming out about now. Since Gary Oldman is the lead, the acting will be flawless, and the whole probably will be a great example of Scorpio Sun.
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:22 am

What about Scorpios such Emily Dickenson, Marina Abramovich, Noam Chomsky etc.? Scorpio traits are usually thought of as "extroverted", but what is the best way to understand Scorpio when it represents itself in a more "introverted" manner?

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:35 am

By Jove wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:22 am
What about Scorpios such Emily Dickenson, Marina Abramovich, Noam Chomsky etc.? Scorpio traits are usually thought of as "extroverted", but what is the best way to understand Scorpio when it represents itself in a more "introverted" manner?
I think of Scorpio in general as being on the introverted side of the middle line - generally a bit more introverted than extroverted. (I certainly don't think of the sign as extroverted in general.)

For the examples you give, though, I wonder if you are think more of intellect than introversion. Is this what you're tracking (intellect vs. physical aggression)?
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:14 am

I did think "introversion" but perhaps I could rephrase it as "reclusive" or "private". Your example, Winston Churchill, is a very "public" figure; a politician, orator, statesmen, and so forth. Over the years I've come to associate Scorpio with certain general archetypes (for lack of a better word) such as "daredevil, soldier, satirist, mechanic, rock star, crime boss" etc.

People tend to think such figures as "extroverts", though reality is different. As such, it seems Scorpio isn't often associated with "sensitive artist types" or "lonely intellectual types", and other cliches people associate with "introversion" and profundity. I wonder how Scorpio manifests itself through people who do fit generic "introvert" labels.

But I'm also curious about the intellect vs. physical aggression aspect.

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:36 am

By Jove wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:14 am
I did think "introversion" but perhaps I could rephrase it as "reclusive" or "private". Your example, Winston Churchill, is a very "public" figure; a politician, orator, statesmen, and so forth. Over the years I've come to associate Scorpio with certain general archetypes (for lack of a better word) such as "daredevil, soldier, satirist, mechanic, rock star, crime boss" etc.
I agree with those words ecept not always (or even usually) physically. They are indeed daredevils, but usually with ideas and the conditions of their lives; soldier (or I'd say combatant or fighter) but not usually physically - they are using the military combatant model for navigating their lives and impacting the world around them.

Rock stars are an interesting example. According to one statistical study, they are primarily Leos and Aquariuses. But you're thinking of a certain set of them, e.g., Morrison who - while a performer was intensely private and in-turned. He wasn't the least bit of an extrovert, i.e., he drew his meaning and orientation primarily from within himself rather than from the world outside of himself; and this seems, to me, quite typical of Scorpio.

"Brooding, in-turned, private, deeply thinking" seem, across the board, descriptive of them even when their life is lived in public display. (Hubs lean this way overall, though Leo is on display more than the others.) From Walt Disney or Ted Turner to Robert Kennedy, Bruce Lee, Woody Allen, Mark Twain, or Margaret Cho, to Jim Morrison or Jimi Hendrix, these are inwardly rich, inwardly driven people. (One of the least private I can think of is Joe Biden - Aries Moon, I think - he sort of "wears his private live on his sleeve," but is still deeply in-turned and internally-motivated.) And how about the seemingly opposed, actually similar, John Milton and Martin Luther?
People tend to think such figures as "extroverts", though reality is different.
Exactly! (There is also the problem that the Freudian and Jungian definitions of introvert vs. extrovert are almost the opposite of each other, and neither exactly matches popular, casual use of the words - though the Freudian version is closer.)
As such, it seems Scorpio isn't often associated with "sensitive artist types" or "lonely intellectual types", and other cliches people associate with "introversion" and profundity.
And yet, Garth Allen's first statement about them in his list of notes is Promethean. That's where he starts, with the idea that these are some of the people who best take abstract truths, arts, music, philosophic themes, etc. and transform them into nuts-and-bolts form that the common people can assimilate. (I suppose that's the Mars element: Turning it into immediate, practical form that is easy to assimilate.) All the people I listed brought wisdom, art, or culture to the people. Perhaps this is the theme you're searching for?
But I'm also curious about the intellect vs. physical aggression aspect.
Drop the idea of physical. With a rare exception like Bruce Lee, Scorpio is everything you're listing above except not physically.
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:27 pm

"Brooding, in-turned, private, deeply thinking" seem, across the board, descriptive of them even when their life is lived in public display. (Hubs lean this way overall, though Leo is on display more than the others.) From Walt Disney or Ted Turner to Robert Kennedy, Bruce Lee, Woody Allen, Mark Twain, or Margaret Cho, to Jim Morrison or Jimi Hendrix, these are inwardly rich, inwardly driven people. (One of the least private I can think of is Joe Biden - Aries Moon, I think - he sort of "wears his private live on his sleeve," but is still deeply in-turned and internally-motivated.) And how about the seemingly opposed, actually similar, John Milton and Martin Luther?
I find this to be very true of the Scorpio luminaries I know, for better or worse. And like you said, this is a general trend among Hub signs. Drawing meaning from the outside world seems like a trait among Rim signs - correct me if I'm wrong. And Spoke signs seem to be both, reflecting their duality: one foot on the outside world, another on the inside world.

I don't know about myself in particular. I'm a double Spoke yet I'm far too introverted for my own good. I'm driven inwardly way too much, to the point where I pay too little attention to the outside world's standards. I don't know why. I don't think my Sun, for example, is such a big aspect. The Moon conjunct Neptune kind of makes sense, but that much.
Drop the idea of physical. With a rare exception like Bruce Lee, Scorpio is everything you're listing above except physically.
That's interesting, because you would think Mars would be very physical. But perhaps that is thinking too narrowly, as every planet has a physical aspect, as well as spiritual and psychological aspects etc. Danica visited me in NYC a while ago, and Danica mentioned how Mars was pure body and instinct, not intellectual in any way. I told her I once had a dream where I was a reptile with a state of mind similar to what she said.
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:38 pm

Angular Mars does tend to be physical, but other Mars expressions not as narrowly. I think Mars represents aggression and dominance needs mostly, and in today's world one is more effective dominating the world about them with ideas than with muscles.

The introversion of Sagittarius is much more acute (at least in extreme cases) than for Scorpio. I think it is strongly fed by the acute awareness of judgement, and is a retreatment from judgement, feeding an Ivory Tower type of response. When Sagittarians become very
neurotic, they retreat more and more into this Ivory Tower isolation. Think, for example, of Howard Hughes, Richard Nixon, and Elvis Presley.
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Danica » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:40 pm

By Jove wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:27 pm

Danica mentioned how Mars was pure body and instinct, not intellectual in any way. I told her I once had a dream where I was a reptile with a state of mind similar to what she said.
I said that to counteract what I perceived as your tendency to make it too abstract and intellectual :)
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:21 pm

Danica wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:40 pm
By Jove wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:27 pm

Danica mentioned how Mars was pure body and instinct, not intellectual in any way. I told her I once had a dream where I was a reptile with a state of mind similar to what she said.
I said that to counteract what I perceived as your tendency to make it too abstract and intellectual :)
Oh, I see! :D Happy Thanksgiving BTW!

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Danica » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:31 am

Thank you, By Jove!
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:00 pm

The introversion of Sagittarius is much more acute (at least in extreme cases) than for Scorpio. I think it is strongly fed by the acute awareness of judgement, and is a retreatment from judgement, feeding an Ivory Tower type of response. When Sagittarians become very
neurotic, they retreat more and more into this Ivory Tower isolation. Think, for example, of Howard Hughes, Richard Nixon, and Elvis Presley.
I understand, but what about me being so extremely inwardly driven? What parts of my natal chart explain it?

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Danica » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:04 pm

By Jove wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:00 pm
The introversion of Sagittarius is much more acute (at least in extreme cases) than for Scorpio. I think it is strongly fed by the acute awareness of judgement, and is a retreatment from judgement, feeding an Ivory Tower type of response. When Sagittarians become very
neurotic, they retreat more and more into this Ivory Tower isolation. Think, for example, of Howard Hughes, Richard Nixon, and Elvis Presley.
I understand, but what about me being so extremely inwardly driven? What parts of my natal chart explain it?
Be patient, the Archer, the Sun will soon enough enter Sagittarius :D
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:06 am

By Jove wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:00 pm
I understand, but what about me being so extremely inwardly driven? What parts of my natal chart explain it?
As Danica said, this isn't the thread for talking about Sagittarius - which is where the answer lies - but as a quick remark, Spokes, when stressed, either swing into obsessive-compulsiveness or paranoia traits (which are outwardly different but inwardly extremely similar). Sag is most likely to go OC. (Saturn tips things more strongly to OC, Neptune more toward paranoia; you have Moon closely conjunct both of these planets.) So there is going to be acute focus and intense, compulsive sense of feeling "driven" into behaviors. PS I'm not using these words in a pathological sense, but more in the sense of traits or leanings in the healthy range of personality.
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Antares5 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:45 am

Scorpio is , without a doubt, the most common Sun sign among my friends. For some reason, it's very easy for me to connect with these people (and with Virgo Suns). The people that I will be listing here are all friends of at least 10 years and in some cases more than 15 or even 20 years. But even if they are not long time friends (casual encounters, or friends of friends), I can still quickly form friendships with them. That's why I think that Sun sign has more to do with interpersonal connections than with anything else.

The list includes : three of my closest friends since childhood and teenage years (2 Scorpio Suns and one Scorpio Moon), a cousin, my sisters best friend (who is also one of my two closer female friends, along with a Virgo lady), a neighbour and long time friend and a friend from college (he joined our closer circle during college but I have no contact with him anymore since he got married and went to Norway).

From my personal observation :

- They are all hardworking (even though frequently complaining about their work)
- Technical orientation. They are either engineers (the three friends who went to college with me), electricians (the Scorpio Moon), car mechanics (my cousin) or mathematicians (the neighbour). Only exception is the female friend, who is a lawyer.
- They all play video games :) (even the girl and the 40 year old cousin are avid gamers)
- They are easy-going and fun
- They are outspoken and blunt in speech
- Secrecy is NOT a trait among them. This seems to be just a tropical idea that Scorpio is secretive. All of them are very open and honest people. Only my Scorpio Moon friend seems to have this trait of "hiding weaknesses".
- They all like to travel, no exceptions
- They are not much into arts, but they like music. They seem to have a preference for a specific genre of music, instead of listening whatever is on the radio. For example, Scorpio Moon, female friend and my cousin are into rap music (along with another Scorpio Sun I once knew, who has an actual rapper). One Scorpio from college is into folk music and the other is into heavy metal.

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 am

You must be jamescondor because nobody else talks about Scorpios that much. 8-) Pretty much agree here, though I would still insist on the secrecy aspect.

Blunt? Absolutely, though I do observe that the merciless bluntness comes out at specifically planned moments or when pressed. Otherwise, they're too nice for their own good. I rarely, if ever, seen the bluntness come out on accident.

Their demeanor is indeed laidback. They are driven and with high energy but not hyperactive as it were. Most of the energy is corked beneath the surface as it were.

My mere opinions.
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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 am

And Merry Krampus everyone! Wild and demonic Krampus (currently in Scorpio) gives way to wholesome and religious Christmas (currently in Sagittarius).

Christmas originally began as drunken pagan rave, a Saturnalia, but over time Christian values took over and it became the holiday we know today. Coincidentally, this process happened as Dec. 25 gradually shifted from Capricorn to Sagittarius.

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by Antares5 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:39 am

By Jove wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 am
You must be jamescondor because nobody else talks about Scorpios that much. Pretty much agree here, though I would still insist on the secrecy aspect.
As I said, it's just the most common sign among my friends. Maybe it's because we are close friends, so we don't keep any secrets between each other. There is only one friend in our closer circle that I would call secretive and he is a Sagittarius Sun, Leo Moon.
By Jove wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 am
Blunt? Absolutely, though I do observe that the merciless bluntness comes out at specifically times moments or when pressed. Otherwise, they're too nice for their own good. I rarely, if ever, seen the bluntness come out on accident.
I agree absolutely on this one. One of the Scorpios has a prominent angular Venus-Pluto conjunction. He is otherwise extremely nice, well-mannered and well-behaved. But even he can't hold back the bluntness at times, suddenly starting to use strong words instead of the usual "niceness".

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Re: Sun in Scorpio - sign project

Post by By Jove » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:51 am

Jonathan Swift's 350th birthday was two days ago (when correcting his birthdate with Gregorian calendar). In the Libra sign project thread, I tried to suss out "archetypal" Libras (people who display many or pronounced typical Libra traits). So I want to start a trend where I do that for every sign, eventually. (I am as typical a Sagittarius as they come.)

So how is the Dean a typical Scorpio? I read the latest biography about him by Leo Damrosch, and it sheds a lot of light on Swift's character, so I can at least say a few things:

-Damrosch spends a lot of time discussing Swift's secrecy. He had two secret affairs with two women, Vanessa and Stella, and may have had a secret marriage with the latter woman. He was very fond of writing in code and anagrams, as the many letters to Stella show an entire secret language. Swift lived in an age where the royal courts were especially full of espionage and most authors published anonymously, but Swift was secretive even by those standards. Damrosch even calls him "a man of mystery" and "most secretive of men".

-Swift had many traits our modern society labels as "extrovert" and what older societies labeled as "choleric": he was lively, sharp-witted, gregarious, and very generous. He often trolled people with practical jokes and scathing satires (obviously). He was genuinely sociable, yet always used it as a strategic cover. He had tremendous energy and was physically active until well into old age. Later he used his positions as Dean to help jumpstart several poor Irish families into becoming well off businesses, and later established an asylum in Dublin. And of course the fleeting yet intense and violent emotions typical among most "cholerics".

-And of course the other "choleric" traits: Swift was an intimidating, domineering, exacting presence; preachers visiting St. Patrick's Cathedral were scared of him because he recorded every conceivable error they made while they preached, and he would take the preachers to task for each error afterward. As a young college student, he was very rebellious, often going out of school bounds and breaking rules. He got the equivalent of detention many times.

-Had a strong sexual vitality; carrying two intense affairs with Vanessa and Stella for many years. Jim speculated the "water" signs were intensive rather than extensive, and this definitely applies to Swift. The emotions of "water" signs are "fleeting" in the sense they rise and ebb like the tides, with little self-control from the person. Either way, older biographers incorrectly assumed Swift was asexual or impotent, yet the evidence suggests otherwise. He was a ladies man, very comfortable among female company.

-Swift was practical. He saw religion as a social and political order, and had little concern of the higher mysteries the theologians would speculate in. He likewise disdained modern science, as he saw it as an impractical waste of time. - Swift was somewhat right considering the nascent science of the 18th century had little discipline or foolproof methods. Science back then was more like the Mythbusters fooling around with gismos than serious research.

-And of course there is the sharp tongue, the satirical wit, the shrewd understanding of human character. But in Swift's case it is especially severe. His Sun was conjunct Shaula and Lesath, the "cat's eyes" stars that make the stinger of Scorpio. Some astrologers speculate Saturn to be rising in his natal chart. Swift's extreme satire shows a bitter pessimism fueled by indignation. Typical Scorpio is not that extreme, but it does show the source of wit and humor from the malefic Mars (shared by Aries, Scorpio, and Capricorn). As Mark Twain said, the source of laughter is not joy but sorrow.

-But Swift had a lot of playfulness and light-hearted wit too; he was a master troll as I said earlier. It was bascically a safety valve for him to deal with the intense pressure of politics and the evils of human existence. His favorite phrase was literally "long live the trifle".

-Damrosch mentions Swift having a volatile and "anarchist" spirit within him, and that Swift's reactionary and pro-establishment views were one of the ways Swift protected himself. Tale of a Tub is an example of Swift's "anarchist" spirit unleashed with no filters; the work is wild in structure and dense in its content, and no aspect of clerical life is left unscathed. Swift at his worst pessimism carries that spirit, where he savages all aspects of human life and the supposed dignity of humankind itself, to the point of nihilism.

-Damrosch on Swift elsewhere: "He was well known for his intensity, with a magnetic personality and a compelling gaze that people responded to instinctively. He had powerful, even volatile emotions. He had intense likes and dislikes. He flirted with attractive women all his life... And the two women he deeply loved... loved him in return and remained permanently bonded with him."
Last edited by By Jove on Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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