Moon in Capricorn sign project

Q&A and discussion on the meanings of the Zodiacal Constellations, Sun and Moon sign-meanings, etc.
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Jim Eshelman
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Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:29 am

Welcome to the Moon in Capricorn discussions project, which will run January 15 - February 13, 2018 (and then will remain around in case people want to revisit it in the future). Please gather your list of Moon in Capricorn people (especially those you know personally) and join us.

Here are Moon in Capricorn interpretive resources on the forum:
Primary section: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34#p151
Cyril Fagan: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=105&p=636#p645
Garth Allen: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33#p139
Manilius: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=121#p747
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mikestar13
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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by mikestar13 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:55 am

So after a year of Sun in ... threads, we're doing the Moon this year? Two thumbs up, I really am looking forward to reading :D . I expect to have quite a bit to say when mid-April rolls around.

I notice that you don't regard the NIA Moon-sign delineations as being as as polished as the Sun-signs, Jim. That's no surprise, and isn't unique to you--I've read neither western siderealist nor tropicalist literature that does (I'm not familiar enough with the astrological literature of India to comment on whether it hold true there--I don't know). The very first exposure to astrology for almost everyone in the west is newspaper astrology--I got mine along with my mother's milk, I think. So tropicalists expend extra effort on expanding this primordial "knowledge", while siderealist expend extra effort correcting it. This goes on below the surface of consciousness, for the most part. I noticed it in the seventies in my own study notes, though that may possibly be attributed to another cause: I'm Sun in Pisces SZ/Aries TZ but Moon in Aries both zodiacs, so maybe Sun-signs were just more emotionally important to me, because it was a bigger change.

BTW, I write as if there were two zodiacs to make my point, I know there is only only one--where Aldebaran is is at 15 Taurus opposite Antares at 15 Scorpio the way God intended.
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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by SteveS » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:18 am

Mike wrote:
BTW, I write as if there were two zodiacs to make my point, I know there is only only one--where Aldebaran is is at 15 Taurus opposite Antares at 15 Scorpio the way God intended.
:)

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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by By Jove » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:26 am

My good old friend Mn*** has Moon in Capricorn, and has Mars and Saturn as strong planets, as shown here. Her Tumblr page is as Capricorn Moon as you can get.

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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:43 am

I just gathered my collection of Capricorn Moons into a file and, between personal and public, I have 164 examples I want to work with, but especially 15 people that I know pretty well, including my mother, three fairly significant girlfriends, two men who were among my best friends, and our own The Scales Both Ways, among others.

But, as a first impression, running my eyes down the almost 150 famous examples in the file, I am newly struck by some patterns that have appeared to me before. These may not be as present in non-public, non-prominent people, but stand out fairly distinctly among the famous (and sometimes notorious).

Especially among those who are somehow in the arts, there is indeed a tendency to play toward the grotesque or, if not that, then to the outlandish, keeping people surprised and "off their feet."

Among actors, women have fared better than men for Oscars. Several actresses are iconically known for playing women who were outright crazy, such as Vivien Leigh, Glenn Close, and Joan Crawford. There is also always an intensely sexual element about them (to the above and others, add especially Marilyn Monroe and Sophia Loren (add Donna Summer), and remember that Helen Mirren's hot-hot breakout role was in Excalibur.) Though Capricorn Moon men get fewer Oscars, there are exemplars of steaming male sexuality among them, such as Cary Grant, Denzel Washington, and Russell Crowe.

There are so many others who try to shock us and live on the outskirts of convention. Consider all the plays of Tennessee Williams; Chris Carter who created X-Files; the outlandishness of H.G. Wells and Orson Welles; the impish and outlandish Gene Wilder; the paintings of Gustave Dore; and names like Havelock Ellis. Bruce Jenner certainly startled a few people. Folks considered eminent in other, orthodox fields who also openly identified themselves with the occult include Sir John Dee, Edward Kelley, Nicholas Culpepper, and William Butler Yates. Larry Hagman impacted the world most as one of TV's earliest anti-heroes, a Man You Love to Hate (J.R. Ewing). And Neil Young, John McCain, and Pope Francis, in their respective fields, have usually been on the cultural, rebellious fringe.

But wait, isn't that just Uranus because these are Tropical Aquarius Moons? Nope, that's Mars-Saturn. Maybe someone like Wilder is Uranian, but the list is generally not "experimentation and over-the-bounds for its own sake" so much as in-your-face confrontation of the fiercely independent, autonomy-demanding, anti-expectation Capricorn. Demonstrating that this is not Uranian liberality is a long list of conservative icons, topped by names like Clarence Thomas, Jeb Bush, Rick Santorum, Robert Bork, and Sarah Palin.

There are monsters, too, and distinctive cult leaders (not always overlapped, of course), including Adolf Eichmann, Charles Manson, David Koresh, and Joseph Smith.

This is clearly a position of political power, often taken to the extreme of infamy or tragedy. For example, four U.S. presidents have had Capricorn Moons (Lincoln, McKinley, Wilson, Nixon), of whom two were murdered, one resigned, and one completed his term barely-recovering after a stroke. Other gigantic political power-houses include Fidel Castro, Gamal Abdul Nasser, Indira Gandhi, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Augustus Caesar, of whom two were murdered, one exiled, and one considered notorious by history - but all gigantically powerful.

Of course, there are milder examples. Manson's Helter-Skelter mania was sponsored by the kinder (but also "bad boy" and rebel) John Lennon. Michael Bloomberg is more orthodox, Robert Kennedy was hardly a conservative icon, Burt Bacharach (also gigantically powerful, and a rebel in his own ways) saturated the "easy listening" air waves for decades.


How much of this will be see in ordinary people? I see a lot of identification with the fringe (whatever that means in their particular circles), with being (or wanting very much to be) a "bad boy" or "bad girl" - I mean this as a role, a social identification, in the "grown up juvenile delinquent" sense, because these "bad" people are generally quite good people. There's a lot of trying to make their stamp and style center on misbehaving, and (among the women more than the men) usually leveraging their wild animal sexuality effectively. I only know a couple of Cap Moon people who have become identified with "looking the crazy one" in the way the signature actresses above did, but for them it's a serious part of their public personas, their particular extension of the "don't think of me as ordinary, I should disturb you a bit" that most Cap Moons seem to wear.
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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:55 pm

Among the famous Cap Moons, in particular, there is indeed a tendency for them to hurl themselves (or fall) into considerable trouble in their lives if Sun is also Rim. This isn't a surprise for Rim-Rim as a generalization. What is interesting to me for Capricorn Moons is the number of striking cases of tragic childhoods (and many of these involving the mother in particular).

Barbara Hutton is a great example - having every advantage on the planet, yet having her life marked forever when, at age 4, she discovered her dead mother. She went on to have one of the most troubled lives on record. Or consider Charles Manson's upbringing, or Marilyn Monroe's. Or think of the last generation's defining unlucky kid, JonBenet Ramsey. These are just the examples that come to the top of my head. (Among personal, non-famous contacts known to me, there are several early losses of mother to disease - generally when the Cap Moon child was in early adulthood, not as children.)

JonBenet's chart is quite intense and unpleasant. A Mars-Pluto partile opposition along the EP axis (and square Sun), a Venus-Saturn partile opposition in the background (but exactly angular in Boulder, where she died), for a little Cancer-Capricorn girl turned into a competitive beauty contestant at a very early age. Imagine the parent dynamics with Cancer-Capricorn luminaries opposed along the MC-IC (with Sun on IC square the Mars-Pluto). Had she lived to adulthood, this would have been a really rough chart to navigate. (Her chart for her death is almost as big a mystery as the murder, though the SLR at least has signs of deception and betrayal, and transiting Saturn was exactly semi-square her Mars on the night.)
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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:16 pm

I'm surprised how few business and finance giants appear on the Cap Moon lists. compared to the hugely disproportionate number of bankers etc. with Capricorn Suns. We have a couple of Rockefellers (but one of them is David!), Henry Ford, plua Leona Helmsley and Moses Annenberg.

Notice that the last two were eventually imprisoned for income tax evasion and generally "taken down." This resembles the pattern with political figures - heads of state that were "taken down" (even killed) after acquiring disproportionately great power. This seems a distinctive characteristic of this Moon-sign placement.
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FlorencedeZ.
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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:03 pm

This is quite amazing. The people I know well with this placement indeed are preoccupied with wanting very much to be a 'bad boy' or 'bad girl'. Despite that these 'bad' people are quite good people. On succes, I know some Cap Moons who are finance giants and have been doing well; not having been taken down.

My mother has a Cap Moon and as long as I can remember I loved to hate her when she keeps me off my feet. She has her Mars in Scorpio which is another placement of this wanting to be 'bad' from time to time. It has not always been easy. It's like there are two persons in her, the kind and the difficult depending on circumstances. With her I find it's easy to recognize when she adapts with her Moon or is feeling at home in het Taurus Sun. Perhaps it's more easy to observe in Capricorn Moon then in Capricorn Sun as this is the face she shows to the outside world to protect herself.

Most of the Cap Moons I know had difficult childhoods. I have noticed that in the same dysfunctional family the other sibblings often also have a Cap Moon.
Also, I have frequently seen melancholy in them and they are easily moved to tears when it pertains hardships or cruelty on others.
Regards,
Flo

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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:54 am

Conversation with my mother who has Moon in Capricorn about the holding back:

me: Mum would you be able to purchase two more wooden Christmas lights for my friend from the charity Bazar? her: No, they don't make them anymore, they stopped doing that. me: Can I call them to ask whether they have some left still? her: No, there's none left, it's over, your friend can't have them. She can go somewhere else where they sell them double the price. me: Will you call for me and ask if perhaps there are some left in storage still? her: No, I am not going to call. This is what it is.
One week later she let me know that she still got two from the charity person...

Another conversation with a family member with Cap Moon:
me: What do you think of this carpet online, the price is really good. him: I think the color looks ugly, you may not like it and regret the purchase, it doesn't look charming at all. Why wasting time on it. me: I think it will look beautiful and feel comfortable. him: It's too thick and not stylish at all, this is something you regret.
The next day: him: When are we going to that Carpet man?

Regards, Flo

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Re: Moon in Capricorn sign project

Post by SteveS » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:02 am

:)

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