Neptune Transiting Mars

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Venus_Daily
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Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Venus_Daily » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:02 pm

I just wanted to detail my personal experience with Neptune approaching my natal Mars retrograde. The past 2-3 weeks have been terrible. Around the beginning of this month, I came down with a terrible case of the flu, which was compounded by suffering from Addison's disease (adrenal insufficiency). I am just barely recovering, but being sequestered and ill brought up some terrible issues I have been completely glossing over. These issues really culminated last night when the transiting moon conjoined to a transiting Jupiter. I'm still very much struggling with body image and self-esteem issues. One of my biggest issues is feeling undesirable or unattractive, and I feel like as a woman, it really is limiting my ability to engage in the human experience. People always claim the same thing over and over again, "it's what's on the inside that counts", but I have found it's the exact opposite. I don't have dreams of money or fame, I dream about feeling comfortable in my own skin, being wanted, and being happy.
Also, I have no energy, and I know Neptune goes stationary direct on the 22nd, so it may get worse.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:21 pm

Neptune on your Mars is quite on target for the adrenal disease. Do you have a way to treat it? The loss of energy alone could be adding so much to your mental and emotional torment, and overcoming that somewhat might bring a lot of relief.
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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by SteveS » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:03 am

p. natal Moon (03,23 Pi) partile 90 p. & natal Neptune (04,21 Sag) is also emotionally a part of your feelings now. Never forget the 4 moons in Sidereal Astrology--very important involving partile aspects.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Venus_Daily » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:17 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:21 pm
Neptune on your Mars is quite on target for the adrenal disease. Do you have a way to treat it? The loss of energy alone could be adding so much to your mental and emotional torment, and overcoming that somewhat might bring a lot of relief.
I was thinking today about Mars' symbolism and how so many astrologers associate Mars exclusively with the male genitals and masculinity. The symbolism associated with Mars, the adrenal glands, and energy seems to be quite literal. The adrenal glands in both sexes produce hormones or neurochemicals that contribute to energy like testosterone, cortisol, mineralocorticoids, and aldosterone. According to MRIs, my left adrenal is completely gone, and my right one is relatively small. With progressed Mars on my secondary progressed DSC with Neptune making its final pass over my natal Mars, this seems to be an important issue. To be frank, I am beyond scared, and I have strong feeling that I might pass away within the next 12-36 months.
SteveS wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:03 am
p. natal Moon (03,23 Pi) partile 90 p. & natal Neptune (04,21 Sag) is also emotionally a part of your feelings now. Never forget the 4 moons in Sidereal Astrology--very important involving partile aspects.
Saturn will eventually get in on that action, and then my natal Moon will make an aspect to progressed Mars preceded by transiting Saturn.

My progressed Sun is about half a degree away from a square with my natal moon, I hope this means a positive shift in life. Sadly, with no energy, I have not been able to invest in life to attract a positive shift or opportunities.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by SteveS » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:22 am

Venus, God (Sidereal Astrology) knows you have been through some long- lasting (now continuing) Mars-Neptune cycles which have wrecked your mental/psychical health in a suffering manner. Have you considered going through the arduous task applying for disability? If so, I would highly recommend an attorney who specializes in disability cases. I have a friend who has a friend who recently has successfully been through the entire disability months-long process with his specialized disability attorney. If you like—I could probably arrange you discussing this possibly with him. PM me if you think this would be a good time for you to discuss the matter with him.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Venus_Daily » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:53 am

Thank you, Jim. Funny you mention that, I went to the emergency room when I got ill, and they suggest I do that. I got a lawyer, and thankfully, my aunt will be paying for my insurance for the next 12 months, in case it takes longer to get approved for disability. I'm just afraid about what it means for my future and my dreams. I've met people on disability, and their lives are very sad, at least financially.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Arena » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:40 am

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
I am a great believer in relocation :)
I think I already found a good location for you in another thread a while back. Might be much better than applying for disability.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Danica » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:09 am

Putting a "charged" configuration (for example, one involving Sun-Mars-Uranus) to the background would not be a good thing to do, I think - the authentic, psychological needs described by the configuration will still exist, but it will be hard (or even impossible) to express them directly in the context of the environment - and that seems like a straightforward way to illness, injury or the like.
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Arena » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:28 am

The background planets simply do not matter as the angular planets do.
I work by the principle that it is simply the planets that are in the foreground/angular that have the biggest effect in our lives. The other planets simply become less important when they move out of the vicinity of the angles = almost like they don't really exist. So by relocating you can make other planets "rule" your life strongly and then the angular planets of the SSR's are important as well. Leave the rest as they are just not as important anymore. So if you choose a place that has your n. Venus angular, your life will become more "Venusian". Any aspects in the background are simply less important and Venus starts to "rule" more.

I've recently read a bit about jyotish astrology and I do believe there is effect from the mahadasha and chara dashas as in having effect in certain periods.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by SteveS » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:47 am

Arena wrote:
I am a great believer in relocation…
Me too, and with any time framed Sidereal Astrology chart for clear practical objective purposes, but especially the Natal Chart if angular malefic aspects are proven with years of life to trouble the native at birth location. And I certainly believe Venus Natal angular Mars-Uranus has been manifesting in her life with various malefic manifestations. However, I do not believe relocating now will solve Venus short term health/mental/psychological problems, because it is clearly obvious to me Venus main troubled problems are manifesting with her primary progressed natal chart involving angular Mars-Neptune symbolism. And, no matter where we relocate, if the primary progressed natal angles indicate acute malefic symbolism, we cannot relocate to avoid these primary natal progressed angles when malefic action appears. In other words, our primary progressed natal angles are always analyzed with our birth location (no matter where we are located), and Venus Mars-Neptune primary angles is the main culprit at this time in her life, imo, —and is a 2-4-year cycle from a 2-degree orb beginning. And now she is facing a long-lasting t. Neptune to her Natal Mars which also goes with her regardless of location.
Arena wrote:
I think I already found a good location for you in another thread a while back. Might be much better than applying for disability.
I agree with you Arena, Venus needs to seriously consider relocating her birth angles with that angular Mars-Uranus theme in her life. By considering all of Venus posts, imo, that Mars-Uranus angular theme has, at times, manifested malefic themes in her life. Of course that Mars-Uranus angular theme would also manifest some benefic action--but only Venus with her life and Sidereal Astrology can make the best piratical judgement for herself.

Here is my main reason for mentioning Venus may need to at least consider applying now for possible accepted types of disability:

:( : : In this country, applying and receiving disability is a living nightmare and is a long process. Matthew Quellas (RIP) who kick-started my Sidereal Astrology learning with more clarity had a long- lasting leg infection (in & out of hospitals), and then suddenly had to have his leg amputated. He found himself out of work with little means of supporting himself. He though he could immediately receive disability compensation, but he was in for a shock when he found out he was first denied compensation with one leg. He nearly starved going through the long process of receiving his monthly disability check. I definitely am not saying Venus possible accepted disability is as serious as having a leg amputated--but Venus is the only one that can make the best practical decision for herself at this time in her life—not us astrologers. IMO, she needs to carefully consider what her doctors see as a % disability possibility in the near future with her various health problems. Only if her Doctors see a high probability she may become disabled with some type acceptable classified disability would she consider beginning now the long process of being granted disability. Even if she was eventually granted some type of classified disability—if her mental/physical condition improved over time allowing her an enjoyable healthy working career, she could then quit her disability. I am only trying to help prepare Venus with her possible disability options with the long difficult process of receiving disability. This I know for sure: Venus has been bombarded with a-lot of malefic primary progressed angular symbolism over the past couple of years--and from a 2 degree orb standpoint it will continue for a couple more years. 'Timing is Everything' and Venus has caught a very nasty primary progressed angle involving the combo of Mars-Neptune, who some siderealists (including me) consider the worst of the worst planetary combos, relative to your immediate psychological environment.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Arena » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 am

True Steve, indeed Venus is the one that has to make decisions about the choices she has, and it may be best for her to start this disability process - I don't know her condition well enough to be any kind of judge in that decision and wouldn't want to be as I believe people always have to be the masters of their own decisions.

I guess that I am just always looking at alternative options people have, not to limit one's choices, but rather expand them.
And, no matter where we relocate, if the primary progressed natal angles indicate acute malefic symbolism, we cannot relocate to avoid these primary natal progressed angles when malefic action appears.
Are you sure you have proof of this? I know Jim says we should look at both. I am not yet sure about how or if the natal angles also change in progressions, just like they do in the natal relocated chart and all returns. Why would they change for relocated chart, all returns, but not for progressions? If progressed angles also change, it would actually mean that you can indeed avoid or enhance your planetary symbolism as you choose to do. And if progressed angles stay as the natal progressed, but not as relocated progressed (I find it hard to believe that they do both) - then a relocation may change the manifestation of those progressions to a more positive outcome than would have been otherwise if you are now influenced by a new solar return and a new relocation chart.

You seem to have a terrible health system in the US, I don't envy you of that. It is very different over here in Europe.

I do hope that in one way or another Venus will find solutions to her troubles and does not have to suffer for too long.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:49 am

Arena wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 am
And, no matter where we relocate, if the primary progressed natal angles indicate acute malefic symbolism, we cannot relocate to avoid these primary natal progressed angles when malefic action appears.
Are you sure you have proof of this? I know Jim says we should look at both. I am not yet sure about how or if the natal angles also change in progressions, just like they do in the natal relocated chart and all returns. Why would they change for relocated chart, all returns, but not for progressions?
I think the word "change" is a problem here. Each of the three categories you mention (and at least one more I can think of) seems to operate on exactly the same rule - we just have to state the rule correctly.

What appears to be the correct rule is: Every chart remains forever valid for the place it originates AND adds sensitivity of new angles for any place the chart-bearer moves during the life of the chart.

There are unknowns in this - for example, whether the effect is immediate (as it sometimes seems to be, since effects occur from simply driving across planet lines) or take time to settle in (as seems from other evidence, in particular people who relocate and gradually "grow into" a new spot over weeks or months. My view is that the effect is instantaneous (and therefore can trigger events), but changes in character, and consequent choices one makes, take a while to settle in (psychologists say it takes six months of reiterating a new behavior before it is stable enough to start thinking it's on the road to permanency).

Anyway, the three categories you mention seem to follow this one common rule.

Natal charts don't "change," because you never ever ever ever lose the natal chart. I'll be an angular Moon person all my life no matter where I go, and Steve will be an angular Jupiter no matter where he goes, etc. We just add new stuff (e.g., my Venus-Pluto becoming angular and thus expressive on the West Coast).

Return charts seem to operate the same way: They are valid wherever they occur AND acquire new angles as you move elsewhere. Except (to argue against myself a little), I'm not as sure that the original angles stay in the same way as a natal. I've watched transits for a couple of years to SSRs Marion and I had in non-LA locations and, while I've not seen a case where a transit actually was contradicted by events, there also weren't any slam dunk confirmations. If that's the case, and the original SSR angles don't retain full viability once one scoots away from the temporary location, then I suspect it's a duration issue: One may have to be in a location a certain period of time for the angles to get durability. - But generally these appear to work on the same principle of natals.

Primary progressed angles follow the same rule, provided one understands that the angular contacts do not occur in current time but in the distant past, within days or weeks of one's birth. They are also natural unfoldngs of the birth chart, not new charts unto themselves. They work most strongly for birthplace, and a little less strongly (10%? 20?) for current location.

Nothing goes away. Some new, secondary stuff is added. They all seem to follow the same general principle.
If progressed angles also change, it would actually mean that you can indeed avoid or enhance your planetary symbolism as you choose to do.
There's that word "change," as if the natal goes away. The natal never goes away. You're always at birthplace, even when you are also somewhere else.
And if progressed angles stay as the natal progressed, but not as relocated progressed (I find it hard to believe that they do both)
The most dramatic examples are for birthplace. But new residence has striking examples, too, so I don't think we can ignore them.
You seem to have a terrible health system in the US
On this I agree with you completely :) Owning a gun is a constitutionally protected right, getting treated for a gunshot wound is a special privilege some people get and others don't.
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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by SteveS » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:07 am

Arena asked:
Are you sure you have proof of this?

When it comes to proof in Sidereal Astrology, I can only go by what resonates with my mind as a truth, or listen/study work of Siderealists like Jim who do the donkey work of the time consuming statistical work endeavoring to see the truths of their statistical research. But, even this does not necessary mean it’s the absolute truth for one particular case study—like Venus nasty ‘primary’ cycles. I can only say I have seen enough “primary” angled charts in my 30 years of computing charts with software that has proven to my mind-- do not ignore the birth place angles of primary ‘angles’ with relocated locations. If I would have known I would be posting on a forum about my chart experience with involving anything that resonates to me as the truth with ‘primary’ birth angles, I would have save the examples to a computer file. Now that business is off my mind for a while, I will try to recall with my diminishing memory some classic chart examples with ‘primary birth angles’ and post with Jim’s thread “Primary” angles.
Arena wrote:
You seem to have a terrible health system in the US…
And getting worse with my personal experience and listening to the details explained by my Doctor over drinks. :(

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Arena » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:56 pm

I am sorry Venus, I do not want to bother you with questions if you prefer not to answer them.
So just tell me off if you don't want to discuss this.
I am such a nerd about health issues and I do know more than most people around me it seems ... but this one I had not heard of, so, of course, I had to get out there and educate myself a little bit on this condition.

Are you positive that you have the right diagnosis? What are your symptoms?
Have you had a CT scan to check for adrenal tumours and/or haemorrhage? and a thyroid test? Has your doctor performed all the tests, such as checking the increase in serum ACTH and serum cortisol and antibodies? Test EUC?

Did you try to heal your body through fasting? You can google it, I've already found articles and videos on that.
I am a great believer in the body's own ability to heal itself through fasting, fasting triggers autophagy (google it) and it's an inner body cleaning system.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Arena » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:07 am

Jim, everything you said in your answer above indicates that indeed the word "change" is a key word.

Even though you believe we keep our natal chart angles (and you may well be right) you still see that relocated angles add to the mix and that is the key trigger for "change". If you bring new planets to your relocated angles, those new planets mean "change", just as if you are making a cake or a drink and you add a new ingredient, you actually change the outcome (taste).

So the person relocated will not have the exact same experiences in the natal place as she will in the relocated place, because of new influences on her chart by returns and relocated angles. That means "change" to me. So even though there are the influences of the natal chart, with the addition of the relocation chart it changes the influences = "change".

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:19 am

I'm pushing for "add" instead of "change," because "change" usually implies one thing is traded for another, i.e., something goes away.

We probably aren't too far apart, but I do want to make sure that people coming by and reading this in the future don't get the "one comes in, the other goes away" feel from this.
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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Arena » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:23 am

Yes, I do know what you mean, but I think it is of vital importance in order to fully understand what relocation can do, to actually understand that it does indeed change your emphasis and influences in the chart and thereby the outcome you get in life. This is why I want to greatly emphasize the word change, even though the base stays there within. Like the cake analogy, you make a doe and you have some basics in there like a few different kinds of flour/wheat, water and maybe some butter ... but then you decide to add chocolate and eggs and wow it is suddenly a very different cake with different texture and taste, hence you change your outcome. I think we fully understand each other on this, Jim - we just have a bit different emphasizes.

Let us take Venus_daily as an example here, since this is her thread. I have her birth data and her natal chart tells me that the strongest influences on her natal angles (ecliptic) come from Saturn partile sq MC, Mercury wide sq ASC and Pluto wide conj Vx. But her chart offers some chocolates :) Focusing on benefics I can see that her Jup actually squares Venus, and trines Mercury and has no aspects from the main malefics (Saturn&Mars) so even better. I don't consider Neptune a malefic when it is not in aspect or influenced by the main malefics. So, by focusing on this "best of" we look for places that bring Jup to the fore, since it gives both Jup-Ven, Jup-Mer and a Jup-Pluto.

Ok, so if we first focus on Jupiter line we might see that Boston comes up, within the US with Jup right on her DSC and Sun on IC, with Venus sq her rel. ASC BUT that Mars-Ur would be sq her rel. MC... and she may want to avoid that ... but with all those benefic influences it might turn out to be ok. Anyway, let's go on (this is one of my favorites in astrology :) ) ... she might want to jump over to Canada to Montreal (staying on Jup line), but she may also want to move to where both Jup and Mer come to angles and that Mar-Ur influence is not there anymore. Well that would mean the bottom of Hudson Bay in Canada, but there are only small villages there and might not be a great place to live (I don't know though). IF she wants a warm place, she also has north of Brazil (around Belém) and north of Australia (between Darwin and Dampier peninsula). ...BUT since her progr. Mars has passed by Neptuen and is moving in close on to Jup she may not want that influence on her angles (although in my experience Mars-Jup or Jup-Mars has been great for myself in transits, very active energy, taking important good steps in investment).

So let's say she would rather want to have the love/joy/friendship influence of Venus to the fore.
Some places that stand out to me are north of Brazil, Darwin Australia or a nice island in Indonesia and then Japan (but maybe that is too close to the potential danger of N-Korea and US war). Of course she would need to cast relocation charts for those places to see if there are any malefic squares. F.ex. Darwin Australia has her Venus on MC and Jup wide on her ASC and same in some islands just north from there in Indonesia (google them, what a beautiful place!) ...Belém in N-Brazil has Jup on her DSC and Venus on her IC ... sounds like a place to get married :)

Well, anyway I just love all the different possibilites of relocating and I would encourage to look into possible new parans a place can bring into your life as it did in my case and I had not anticipated (jup-mer).

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Arena » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:39 am

I think it is also of importance to note in here that the effect that is discussed in this thread, Venus has named it Neptune transiting Mars - but in fact tr. Neptune is also in a very tight trine aspect to her n. Saturn. Let's not ignore that fact.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:28 am

Arena wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:23 am
Let us take Venus_daily as an example here, since this is her thread. I have her birth data and her natal chart tells me that the strongest influences on her natal angles (ecliptic) come from Saturn partile sq MC, Mercury wide sq ASC and Pluto wide conj Vx.
Mercury is 0°36' from square Ascendant, but Saturn is more than 3° from square MC - something I wouldn't count. (Are you using the 11:44 time?) Nor is it on WP.
But her chart offers some chocolates :) Focusing on benefics I can see that her Jup actually squares Venus, and trines Mercury and has no aspects from the main malefics (Saturn&Mars) so even better. I don't consider Neptune a malefic when it is not in aspect or influenced by the main malefics. So, by focusing on this "best of" we look for places that bring Jup to the fore, since it gives both Jup-Ven, Jup-Mer and a Jup-Pluto.
I would definitely agree that her Venus-Jupiter square is the best benefic spot in the chart, especially if we can minimize the proximity of Neptune. I'd probably look, therefore, for a spot where Venus is brought to the horizon or meridian, having greater strength and wider orbs to play with, and Jupiter is coming into it from a square - easier to keep Neptune out of orb of the angles that way. But yeah, similar thinking lines. - The problem is, there is no such "let Venus lead" in the U.S., and there is Jupiter... which brings the Neptune deeper into the mix. NYC is good but not great - Venus is out of orb of square Ascendant. Boston seems to have the best of all worlds, keeping Jupiter close, putting Sun exactly on IC, and Venus barely in orb of square Asc (western Massachusetts is better).
Ok, so if we first focus on Jupiter line we might see that Boston comes up, within the US with Jup right on her DSC and Sun on IC, with Venus sq her rel. ASC
Agreed.
BUT that Mars-Ur would be sq her rel. MC
For Boston, it's too wide. I won't go past 2° for a square to MC. Mars is more than 2°, Uranus more than 3°.

On this sort of approach, we agree. The point I keep fearing will get lost, though, is that, no matter where she goes, she is fundamentally a Mercury person (Mercury partile square Ascendant) in a way that she will never be any other planet type. "Change" implies removing what was there before. This wouldn't change anything - it would add Venus and Jupiter. (To use your metaphor, it's the same Mercury yellow cake it always was, but Venus and Jupiter could add frosting to it.)
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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by SteveS » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:11 am

Jim wrote:
I would definitely agree that her Venus-Jupiter square is the best benefic spot in the chart…
And this combo of Jup-Ve is approaching her PS-1 DSC for a 2-4 year benefic cycle beginning in a couple of years.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:34 am

Boston is a very big city. I think someone from a fairly small town in Texas would be more comfortable in the less populated areas in West MA, pretty much anywhere in Connecticut, or Albany, NY. Albany's nice. All are close to the midpoint between the Sun-IC and Jupiter-DSC lines.


OBTW: Boston proper and Albany proper are very liberal, but W. MA and most of NY are not. You'll find a lot of Trump voters there, although not quite Texas style conservatives. But I don't think you'll find that area any more politically discordant than the area you're in now.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Arena » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:19 pm

I have 23.30 birth time for Venus. It is probably since the old forum. Is that not the right time then?

Jim, I fear that you are not understanding my point of view :) ...and maybe the cake or doe analogy was not the best if people never actually bake a cake. I was not talking about just putting the icing on the cake... I was putting chocolate inside the doe and thereby changing it to an entirely different taste/outcome than it would have been without the chocolate. We can add some nuts in the doe as well, and that will change the taste of the cake even more. You will not taste the flour and water anymore, you will actually taste the chocolate more, even though the flour is still there. Change does not necessarily imply removing anything, it can also mean adding enough to the equation that the substance/taste/outcome of it actually changes. Like red wine, you can have it by itself, but you can also make a sangria with it, and it simply is not the same drink anymore although you never removed the red wine.

Just like Charles Manson did by relocating - it changed which planets manifested in his life. He would have manifested the Jup-Mer theme much more prominently if he stayed at the birth place. Instead, he moved other planets to the fore, which changed the outcome of his entire life and persona. He still has the Jup-Mer, but it is not manifesting in the same way is it would have had he not moved.

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Re: Neptune Transiting Mars

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:09 am

Arena wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:19 pm
I have 23.30 birth time for Venus. It is probably since the old forum. Is that not the right time then?
I have 19 minutes earlier. I see she hasn't added it to the forum participants birth data thread, so I don't know if she wants it public (Venus? your wishes?), so she may have given it to me privately.
Jim, I fear that you are not understanding my point of view :)
Regrettably, it seems I do get your point of view, which is that moving to a new location somehow alters the underlying cake. This is exactly the point I'm disputing. Nothing alters the underlying birth chart. Planets that become angular in a new location are a temporary layer as long as we are at that location. That (besides the yummy sweetness metaphor) is why I spoke of Venus-Jupiter as adding frosting. You could add the frosting, and you could come back and scrape it off, and you'd still have the same cake.

I was born with Venus in the immediate background. Even to this day, I'm not really a Venus person. I've lived 42 years in a place where I have Venus exactly angular, and during that time Venus expression has become easier for me and, in particular, Venus events and conditions have become much more routine. But, even after 42 years, this is still a temporary thing. If I were to move, say, to NYC, that astrological influence would be gone from my life. (There probably would be some psychological residua, simply because I've developed different habits and points of view, but these would have to carry themselves - there would no longer be an astrological influence reiterating them every moment I'm there as happens in LA.)
Like red wine, you can have it by itself, but you can also make a sangria with it, and it simply is not the same drink anymore although you never removed the red wine.

This is precisely where we differ. I say this is not how relocation works at all. We all remain "the same drink" our entire lives, though transits, progressions, return charts - and relocation - provide additional side pairings to go with that wine. The basic premise of astrology surely is that you are the person shown in your birth chart, exactly as it appeared for the moment and place you were born, from your first breath to your last breath.
Just like Charles Manson did by relocating - it changed which planets manifested in his life. He would have manifested the Jup-Mer theme much more prominently if he stayed at the birth place. Instead, he moved other planets to the fore, which changed the outcome of his entire life and persona. He still has the Jup-Mer, but it is not manifesting in the same way is it would have had he not moved.
Manson added the Mars-Neptune prominence when he arrived in Los Angeles, but he didn't weaken his Mercury-Jupiter one bit. He was a thriving expression of Mercury conjunct Jupiter to his last days. My metaphor elsewhere of a "college professor" - joined to all the enormous amount of charisma in his chart - made Manson a compelling influence with an easy "way with words." Or, as another example, shortly before he died he remarked that he was the most famous, most written-about person on the planet - which might have been true right then. His mind was always a striking example of an angular Mercury, his status including religions-like stature was undilluted in the minds of his followers, and I wouldn't have trusted anyone I know to be immune to his power to persuade. (And this is aside from the criminal side of Mercury-Jupiter.) He lived half a century (more than half his life) as a nearly mythic figure.

Living a couple of thousand miles from his birth place, he was as much Merury-Jupiter in the '60s and throughout his incarceration. And, frankly, who but a Mercury-Jupiter person (or something similar) could be the man most people in the country (even those against the death penalty) wanted to see put to death, and yet "accidentally" get his sentence commuted when the California Supreme Court just happened to pick the right time to outlaw the death penalty?

Etc.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

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