"Primary" angles

Q&A and discussion on Secondary Progressions.
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Arena
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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by Arena » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:55 am

Ok, but do you know if the solar arc feature in astro.com would work for this?
I can see that my natal chart has 12,33 degrees between the DSC and the MC and when I cast a solar arc direction chart for today I see that this distance is 13,34 degrees and SA AC is partile conj. n. Mercury which is quite fitting for going back to Uni and maybe the business ventures as well.

PS. Oh wow, I've just been upgraded to be a "sidereal field agent" with over 500 posts (but was demoted from Irish by the move to the new site) ... should I take out my Bond wear and start a mission? :D
Last edited by Arena on Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:01 pm

Arena wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:55 am
Ok, but do you know if the solar arc feature in astro.com would work for this?
I don't know. I've never used Astro.com to calculate charts. Others here probably do know.

The question is whether it is a feature to Solar Arcs per se, or is an option on how to calculate the progressed angles (probably listed as something like "by Solar Arc in longitude").
I can see that my natal chart has 12,33 degrees between the DSC and the MC and when I cast a solar arc direction chart for today I see that this distance is 13,34 degrees and SA AC is partile conj. n. Mercury which is quite fitting for going back to Uni and maybe the business ventures as well.
For your given birth time, your Solar Arc angles today are 6°56' Aquarius and 24°23' Cancer. Your (primary) progressed angles are 6°56' Aquarius and 4°06' Cancer.

Either way, MC is 12' shy (< three mounts) of moving into partile orb of square natal Neptune. Solar Arc Ascendant is in orb of square your natal Moon.

LOL, I picked "Sidereal Field Agent" as a pun on the astrophysical idea that the zodiac is a field. You are now one with the Sidereal Field. :)
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Arena
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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by Arena » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:08 pm

Yes astro.com shows AC at 24.23 Cancer, conj n. Mercury (and sq.n. Moon), which is why I said is quite fitting for me having gone back to Uni to study again.

But if you say by this method it would be 4,06 Cancer instead, well then it is sextile n. Pluto and quinc n. Jupiter and nowhere near to square the Moon which is at 25 Aries.

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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:28 pm

Arena wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:08 pm
But if you say by this method it would be 4,06 Cancer instead, well then it is sextile n. Pluto and quinc n. Jupiter and nowhere near to square the Moon which is at 25 Aries.
No, I said Solar Arc Ascendant was square your Moon, not progressed Ascendant, which is making no valid contacts.
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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by SteveS » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:02 am

Recently, Arena asked if I had ‘proof’ that the birth “primary” progressed angles by Solar Arc are active no matter where we relocate away from birth location. Planetary pictures involving “primary” progresses angles are extremely rare in life (difficult to provide a group of statistical proof), but when they occur they will definitely manifest important life events. Jim has offered an important event in his life proving to him and me that we should not ignore the birth location PS-1 primary angles (Solar Arc in Longitude). Back on the old forum, I produced another classic example that the birth PS-1 angles should not be ignored pertaining to relocation, but I think it got lost in the move to new forum. I will post this example again in Jim’s thread on “Primary” angles.

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cooke,_Sam
Then at the peak of his career, Sam Cooke was tragically killed on 12/11/1964. Though details of the circumstances remain hazy; according to reports he was shot three times by the female manager of a Los Angeles motel who claimed she acted in self-defense. Cooke allegedly raped a 22-year-old woman and then turned to the manager. The death was ruled a justifiable homicide. However, it was rumored that many of the crucial details of the case were buried in deference to Cooke’s second wife and two children who wished no further publicity or scrutiny.
Sam (RIP) was tragically killed in LA on 12/11/64 app. 10:00 PM. Progressing his “Primary” progressed birth angles (PS-1) to his birth location produces the following chart. I think we are all in agreement that this birth location PS-1 calculated par-excellent angular planetary symbolism with Venus-Saturn-Pluto.

https://imgur.com/a/jOJ3y

Sam had been living in LA for years building his great musical career. Below is the same PS-I chart calculated for LA, his relocated residence away from his birth residence.

https://imgur.com/a/r2CU2

The par-excellent symbolism of angular Venus-Saturn-Pluto for this tragic event is not calculated for LA, Sam’s relocated residence from his birth location. Conclusion: When relocating to another re-located residence—do not ignore your PS-1 (Primary) progressed birth angles when there are (rarely)angular planetary pictures.

BTW, there was a partile t. Mars-Pluto cnj in the heavens partile 180 Sam’s Natal Moon at the time of this tragic event.

I will later post other examples of PS-I angles, one for a close business colleague with me understanding exactly what is happening in his immediate business environment.

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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:41 am

I think something important to understand here goes back to Fagan's early (1944?) article, "The Incidents & Accidents of Astrology" - theme he repeated many times in his subsequent writings. Progressions are incidental to the life, while transits are accidental to it.

That is, progressions show the unfolding of what is inherent to an individual and his or her natal chart, much as a planted seed unfolds into the kind of plant it was always going to become. Transits, however, show interaction with the environment, things accidental to the seed (arising from its interaction with environmental conditions).

This was a really big deal for Fagan - realizing why progressions and transits seemed so different, why one failed sometimes when the other worked. He held to this as a basic principle the rest of his life. Bradley picked it up and readily adopted it. It's an important root principle perhaps not of Sidereal astrology itself, but of the astrologers who founded Sidereal astrology.

And remember, solar and lunar returns are in the "transits" category. This was made clear from the beginning: The article "Incidents & Accidents in Astrology" is the article where Fagan first introduced Sidereal Solar & Lunar Returns.

Personally, I think the principle is entirely sound, though we might improve the language a bit (not a high priority for me). We're fine as long as we stick with incidents/incidental vs. accidents/accidental; when we start explaining these more, we get into that fuzzy space where there is ultimately no separation between psychological phenomena and physical events.

Progressions (including Steve's examples in particular) often have a more "fated" sense. It's not that anything specific is fated, but progressions, being incidental, are showing "the way the life was always going to unfold from when it started," because it is a progressive unlocking of who the person is from the birth chart.
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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:45 am

SteveS wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:02 am
Back on the old forum, I produced another classic example that the birth PS-1 angles should not be ignored pertaining to relocation, but I think it got lost in the move to new forum.
Danica moved this thread over from the "old" forum for you: http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=602&p=3726
Is that the thread you are talking about?

When we moved threads, the person moving them usually copied the post by quoting the original author, so in that thread, the first post is exactly what you originally wrote, Steve, quoted by Danica. We worked hard to move everybody's stuff as completely as possible.

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Arena
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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by Arena » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:53 pm

Progressions (including Steve's examples in particular) often have a more "fated" sense. It's not that anything specific is fated, but progressions, being incidental, are showing "the way the life was always going to unfold from when it started," because it is a progressive unlocking of who the person is from the birth chart.
This is how I've always looked at progressions. I never really looked into progressed relocated angles when I was doing all my relocation work before moving. In that work, I focused on relocating the natal and then upcoming solar returns in order to see what kind of manifestations one might see in each place.
But I never really went into the work to produce a hundred charts to compare the progressions, so I have no proof. Hence my question.

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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by SteveS » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:23 am

Yes JSAD, thanks for posting the link Danica posted, a good extension discussion link for this thread.

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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by SteveS » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:30 am

The following link is my friend’s PS-1(primary angles--secondary progressed natal planets), with bi-wheel transits (outer wheel). This morning, he had a nasty incident with his business partner’s girlfriend. Cyril Fagan wrote: Transits to progressed planets can be just as important as t. to natal planets.

Note: The partile transit of Mercury-Saturn wired in to his p. Moon/Jup=Sun t-square. His remarks to me were: I was having a good month until that money hungry bitch confronted me about Bob’s estate. This t. of Mercury-Saturn depressed the anger out of him. t. Venus (Woman) partile 90 his natal Mars (anger). Also note p. Uranus on his PS-1 Asc. Jim, if I have miss-represented anything pertaining to your PS-1 post—please correct.

https://imgur.com/a/BYFve

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Arena
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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by Arena » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:52 am

Well, if you care for my input, then I see arguments with looking at tr. Mars.
Tr. Mars is pretty obvious in this case. It is aspecting a few different planets in the progressed chart and touches on Mer-Sat transit as well. T. Mars to pr. Moon+Mer+Sun.

Another interesting point is that tr. Jup is opposite pr. Venus and square Pluto indicating that fateful-love union he is about to have this SSR ;)

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Re: "Primary" angles

Post by SteveS » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Arena wrote:
Another interesting point is that tr. Jup is opposite pr. Venus and square Pluto indicating that fateful-love union he is about to have this SSR ;)
Or, as the real truth of this Jup-Ve aspect verified by my friend yesterday: His relationship with his mate of years is the best it has been in a long time. ;) But, knowing you with your Moon-Mercury-Mars natal aspect, you will find some debate/argument even if 'that fateful-love union" AT AGE 70 does not manifest with his next SSR. ;) He joked with me when I pointed out all the Venus in his next SSR, he didn't believe some new love interest was going to attempt seduce him at the old age of 70, unless it was for his money, which he said he would see coming a mile away with his experience with the opposite sex relative to his life. :) But we never know the specifics of what is coming our way with the future. :o

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