Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

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Jim Eshelman
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Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 7:22 pm

(4/18/2013)
Wayne Turner wrote:Recently I've been going through my astrology files and found a copy of Gary Noel's article on The Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms that appeared in the April 2004 Today's Astrologer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio ... ng_Up_Arms

A quick look at Gary's chart for 5:25 pm made me think that the time should be earlier to put Saturn before the MC and Mars on the MC. When this is done in Philadelphia with a time of 4:52 pm LMT a rather remarkable thing happens: Jupiter is exactly on the Descendant! Since Mars and Jupiter are traditionally associated with war, and the Gauquelin's found these planets prominent in the charts of famous military leaders, this is highly appropriate. This time moves Neptune--the planet of confusion and mistakes (ie. Boyd's misreading of the Journals)--closer to the MC, and Uranus the liberator closer to the Dsc. (Maritha Pottenger would refer to this combination as a freedom closeness dilemma, and two days later the "Olive Branch Petition" was approved in a last attempt to avoid more bloodshed.) Looking at the event that Gary used in his article: The solar return for the contested and frustrating election of 7 Nov 2000 puts the Philadelphia MC between a wide JU/SA conjunction, and Gary says that some astrologers use Jupiter for the Republicans and Saturn for the Democrats, so we have an even split, with 9th house Saturn's frustrating delays and heavy legal action playing a prominent role. Then I looked at the lunar return for September 11, 2001 and !! Return Mars is 27Sco42, and return Dsc is 0Sag41 in Manhattan, 28Sco55 in Phil, and 26Sco13 at the Pentagon. The return SA/PL opposition was across the Asc/Dsc of the natal chart at Philadelphia for the 4:52 pm time.

Here is what Cyril Fagan had to say about a Pluto transit to Saturn in a January 1955 Solunars column: "Like all other transits to natal Saturn, that of the revolutionary Pluto denotes losses, but they are apt to come in such an unpleasant manner that the native may be shaken to the core, and live in terror for many a day afterwards. To escape from his enemies, who are frequently gangsters or blackmailers, he may be forced to abandon his possessions and seek safety in flight. Sometimes this transit presages a bereavement, from the shock of which the native seldom recovers." Fortunately, with Jupiter on the DOTA Descendent and SLR Sun closely conjunct the DOTA Venus, the Capitol in DC was spared thanks to the heroic actions of some passengers aboard the jet that crashed in the Pennsylvania countryside.

This could be a good opportunity for those interested in political astrology and rectification to try their ideas and favorite techniques to see what this time shows for other events. I know that I'll be doing more work with it eventually. Here is another comment on this chart that I posted a few years ago: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=23& ... 1740#p1740

Wayne Turner

PS I sent some of this note to Kenneth Irving at Planetlines but didn't get a response. Here is his thorough review of Noel's research on the DOTA time. http://planetlines.com/wordpress/?p=5

My data site is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/US_history_events/

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Re: Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 7:22 pm

Wayne Turner wrote:I emailed Gary a link to this post and he replied with some interesting observations, as well as a tentative endorsement of the earlier time. He gave me permission to post his reply, so here it is, unedited:

[begin quote of Gary Noel email of 3 May 2013]
I've been using the 5:25 p.m. time for DOTA for a long time now but I found your arguments for an earlier time compelling. I'll have to do some more experimenting though before I'm completely convinced. The only change I would make (and it’s not really a change), is instead of using a time of 4:52 p.m. LMT, I would use 4:47 p.m. LAT. It’s still the same horoscope. There’s an article on the internet by Kenneth Bowser called" Local Apparent Time" that shows LMT wasn’t used until 1780 in Geneva and nowhere else until London began using it in 1792. The Congressional Record of the 29th congress suggests LAT in America was in use as late as 1845.

I liked the Helen Boyd chart but when I found it was historically inaccurate, I began using 5:25 p.m. In the 525 solar returns the same planets are still near the angles as in the Boyd chart. It's just that the angles are different. I'll use the USA solar return for 1941 as an example. In the USA solar return for 1941, the Boyd return shows Mars rising 19 degrees above the Ascendant. The solar return using the 525 chart shows that Mars has reached upper culmination 19 degrees from Midheaven. So the 525 chart comes close to replicating the Boyd chart. The solar return for 1941 using your chart shows Mars even closer, only 9 degrees from Midheaven, clearly a plus in favor of your chart.

In the examples you cite, your chart works better than the 525 chart. However, looking at the solar return for 2012, I think the 525 chart works better. I've had some success using the 5:25 p.m. LAT chart, having written articles extolling its virtues for TMA and the ISAR Journal. I also wrote an article called "The Election of 2012" for Today's Astrologer that for some reason was never published. I emailed the article as a word attachment on January 12, 2011. I wanted to do this early so I wouldn't be accused of being influenced by the polls.

In the article, I predicted that an attack on our country similar to 9/11 sometime after July 2012 could be successful. I thought this might happen because the Moon and Uranus were near the Descendant in the USA solar return. I associate the Moon with religion because Gauquelin found that the most religious individuals were born with the Moon in a major power zone. I associate Uranus with extremism; therefore, the Moon and Uranus together represent religious fanaticism. The Moon and Uranus opposition to both transiting and natal Mars made me think that someone this solar year would try to carry out what is called a "Holy War" on the United States.

I wish I had been wrong about that but I think the events in Boston on April 15 prove that I was justified in making that prediction, although I worried that it would be even worse. I understand the two suspects had planned to do the same thing in New York and who knows where else. The USA lunar return (based on a 5:25 DOTA) prior to April 15 shows Jupiter (warrior planet) near Midheaven conjoined to natal Uranus (extremism and fanaticism.) The lunar return based on the earlier time shows Jupiter further away from Midheaven. If I had used the earlier time, I don't think I would have made such a prediction. The USA solar return for 2012 based on the later time places transiting Mars closer to the Ascendant than the earlier time. The months between July 2012 and May 2013 have certainly been Martian. The Gun control debate has recently been renewed. North Korea has been threatening war and there is a possibility of military intervention in Syria.

In the unpublished article, I predicted President Obama would be reelected but not because of the USA chart but because the president's solar return for 2012 featured Jupiter rising. In his book, Interpreting Solar Returns, James Eshelman indicated that this was a fortunate position for Jupiter. In the unpublished article, I also wrote this:

"The most angular heavenly body in this return (USA return) is the Moon. I believe it isn’t Venus but the Moon, the “planet” most commonly associated with motherhood, that represents women in solar and lunar returns. 2012 may well be remembered as the year of the woman. Women may win congressional seats in record numbers or a woman might be at the center of the presidential election."

On January 3, a record number of women, 20 in the Senate and 78 in the house took their place in the 113th Congress.

In the unpublished article, I also predicted that the Democrats would lose both houses of Congress based on the position of Jupiter in the USA solar return. That proved to be wrong; they lost only one. You may recall I predicted in Today's Astrologer that the Democrats would make substantial gains in 2008 when Saturn (Democrats) was prominent. The erroneous prediction for 2012 may be due to rapidly changing demographics or more likely, I think, more Democrats were swept into office on President Obama's coattails, a factor I forgot to consider. Or it could be that Jupiter was just too far from an angle to have any influence. If I had used the earlier time, I think I would still have made the same erroneous prediction because the 2012 solar return based on the earlier time places Jupiter (Republicans) somewhat closer to Midheaven.

Thanks for bringing your arguments for an earlier time for DOTA to my attention. They have caused me to reconsider the 525 chart. I need more time to experiment with both charts and maybe some charts using the times in between.

Sincerely,
Gary
[end quote]

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Re: Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 7:23 pm

Steve, I'm tagging this to your attention, given your recent interest in the Boyd chart.
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Re: Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

Post by SteveS » Mon May 15, 2017 6:09 am

Thanks Jim, I will definitely do some further work with Wayne's words, and eventually report what I discover. As for now, with a limited amount of research, the 11:00 AM LMT looks superb for only considering BIG US events for Sidereal Astrology Charts. Quoting from the same AA article with an earlier post:
There is no exact recorded time for the adoption for this declaration, though according to Helen Boyd ('The True Horoscope of the United States), it occurred between 9:00 and 11:30 AM.
From this same AA article, it appears Firebrace rectified to 11:00 AM LMT, with Helen Boyd in agreement. Until I see other USA charts offer par-excellent planetary symbolism for the BIG US events, so far, I like what I am seeing with this 11:00 AM time. Jim, in your research life, have you done any detailed work with Boyd's chart and the 11:00 AM time? You know how much I am married to your 'outstanding incidents' teachings with Return Charts, so, a big test coming up for this Boyd Chart with the July 2 Mundo SLR!

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Re: Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

Post by SteveS » Tue May 16, 2017 12:06 am

On December 8, 1941, Congress approved a resolution declaring war with Japan. The Senate unanimously approved the resolution, 82-0. On December 11, 1941, Congress approved a resolution declaring war with Germany. The Senate unanimously approved the resolution, 88-0.
FWIW,
Using the 11:00 AM LMT for Boyd’s Oct 10, 1941 Quarti SSR, some very interesting Sidereal Astrology presents itself. Quarti SSR Saturn is partile cnj Zenith. There is a partile Sun-Mars 180. Watch what happens with the Dec 8, 1941 (Declaration of War with Japan) Quarti SSR Quotidian, and the Dec 11, 1941 (Declaration of War with Germany) Quarti SSR Quotidian.
Dec 8, 1941 Quotidian: Note the partile Sun-Mars 180 is partile 90 Q MC.
Image
Dec 11, 1941 Quotidian: Note the partile Sun-Mars 180 is partile cnj the Horizon.
Image

Also, note on Dec 8th & Dec 11th, t. Mars was partile 90 Boyd's Declaration War Chart Sun.

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Re: Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

Post by SteveS » Wed May 17, 2017 6:47 am

During my deleterious physical health issues last winter, I was mostly confined to bed for several weeks. I took this isolated confinement as an opportunity to dust-off all of my old issues of American Astrology Mag (AA), re-reading dozens of articles, taking notes, for further research when I regained my health back to a decent condition. One of my notes pertained to what a couple of Siderealist had to say about Helen Boyd’s “Declaration of Arms” Chart as being the true horoscope of the USA, these two Siderealist were very impressed with the Boyd Chart as an important radical moment in the history of the USA. If there is one thing I have learned in my life studying Sidereal Astrology, is to treat any serious Siderealist’s work with the utmost respect, for the simple reason a serious Siderealist has to look at a stack of Sidereal Astrology Charts, requiring much detailed mental work. I have always held a firm belief, if the truth of any matter is to be discovered, it requires detailed work. I have my own style of researching Sidereal Astrology charts, and it’s a rapid personal method without presenting any type of organized pilot study, but it serves my style, which, is isolating ‘outstanding events’ with Sidereal astrology. As I have often stated on this forum, I have a deep personal respect for Cyril Fagan’s discovery with daily quotidian charts. Quotidian charts helps prove to my astrological mind that I am working with a true radical moment in the history for chart, in other words, I am working with a true birth/radical time. But this does not mean I can delineate the truth of accurately predicting the future of something. Accurately predicting the future of anything is a perilous task for the astrologer, filled with ‘eat the crow’ failures.
Eating crow is a colloquial idiom, used in English-speaking countries that means humiliation by admitting having been proven wrong after taking a strong position. Crow is presumably foul-tasting in the same way that being proven wrong might be emotionally hard to swallow.
Because of my personal faith in Fagan’s Quotidian system with what I have posted in this thread pertaining to a Boyd’s 11:00 AM LMT, I am now going to take a ‘strong position:’ IMHO, I believe Boyd’s time is very accurate, which may allow the mundane Sidereal Astrologer to see with foresight possible certain ‘outstanding incidents’ in US history pertaining to only potential ‘harm.’ Anything to do with potential harm as a whole to a country produces strong psychological affects upon the people of the country. With my rapid unpublished personal Sidereal astrology analysis of the Boyd chart (dozens of charts), only in the last 2 weeks, IMHO, I believe the Boyd chart should only be analyzed by the Sidereal astrologer from the mundane standpoint of potential ‘harm’ happening to the USA. I will be posting more charts pertaining to this matter, later.

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Re: Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

Post by SteveS » Thu May 18, 2017 5:47 am

Below is Boyd’s USA next SSR. It is striking when we consider Jim’s SSR teachings which state:
This, then, isolates the Moon as the most crucial agent in a Solar Return, after the angles. Lunar aspects to natal and solar planets can never be treated lightly, even when rather wide in orb. So remarkable is this single factor that, if lunar aspects are nearly exact while foreground planets are not exceptionally close to the angles, the solar Moon can be considered the primary theme-setter of the chart for the year ahead, bar none.
Boyd’s 2017 SSR lights are afflicted. Mundanely speaking, this does not bode well for the Prez and the US government. With Mars-Pluto on the lights, we can expect a most stunning (Pluto) aggressive (Mars) year.
Jim writes from his SMA teachings about prominent Mars-Pluto aspects:
A violent, ferocious, often explosive unleashing of force occurs with this aspect, manifesting in several ways…
*** Also note, Boyd's USA Natal Saturn partiles 90 SSR MC!
Image

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Re: Declaration on Taking up Arms, 4:52 pm?, 6 July 1775

Post by SteveS » Sat May 20, 2017 6:23 am

11:00 AM LMT Boyd.
1963 Boyd SSR
Note the partile Moon-Saturn cnj. The Nation mourned the loss of JFK with the 1963 assassination, probably the saddest the Nation, as a whole, in its entire history.
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