8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

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ScarletDepths
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8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:59 pm

Scorpio moon: Socially active party-people: good-natured, friendly, humor. Willing to be outlandish. Factually forth-right; emotionally cautious (withholding); senses others’ motives. Sexual volcanoes: built pressure needs explosive release. Sexually pragmatic. Frequent relationship drama; combative. Easy to anger (it passes). Bold, adventurous, restless, "try anything." Gossip (sometimes vindictive). Beliefs likely unorthodox.

8th house moon:Self-doubts, insecure (over-compensatingly brazen, aggressive, combative). Fascinated by death (self-destructive, taunts danger). Emotional distress, “victim complex,” motivated (or driven!) by deep psychological forces

Pluto Moon: Bold & forthright, questioning & challenging, maverick & alien; independent, “marching to a different drummer,” resisting authority. Avoids habitual conformity (rebellious?); resists conventional conditioning and being made to concur with others’ values and codes. Restless, unwilling to be still for long, can uproot or take to the road on little notice. Deeply inquiring into existential mysteries, often igniting remarkable intuitive insights.

Commonalities: Bold, aggressive, intrigued or surrounded in mystery, restless (?), goes against the norms (?), motivated by deeper forces.

Scorpio moon seems to be more restless and active physically and mentally than the others . It seems to be no more or less involved than Pluto moon, signs are considered lesser in effect than planets and aspects but many associate and can find more out from a sign than a planet (more simpile to grasp?).

8th house moon seems to be more psychological than the others as all states of insecurity, self doubt, victim complex, emotional distress, and fascination with depth all stem from the mind.

Pluto moon seems more rebellious than all the others. Its seemingly sexually unorthodox taking the unorthodox and high sex drive of the Scorpio moon as one trait.( It's very involved and I can say I agree with this aspect more than my moon sign, maybe others can too?)

As an 8th house and Pluto moon (with a good chunk of Scorpio energy) I thought I needed to make a post to have all of these side by side.

The following { } is personal information you may scroll past if you wish.

{Note I've heard Pluto-Moon called the Hades Moon it must feel the undercurrents of Pluto whilst Scorpio Moons and 8th house can feel the undercurrents, (Scorpio moon and eight house moons can switch it off (?)).

I can say personally reading through my Leo moon sign much like my sun sign that other energy is more relatable and apparent in my psyche. (I would say to someone I'm a Hades Moon before a Leo moon unless of course I would want to withhold self informa...)

I can say I agree with all of these traits I tend not to play the victim however I've seen it with others. Side note I do agree with all of the Scorpio Moon traits but these aren't proved to come from my 8th house Hades Moon, however at the moment it seems the most likely.

Generally I don't believe Scorpio or Aries is ruled by Pluto inherently. I do believe Pluto can overtake Mars as the ruler of Scorpio especially on the femine planets (Venus and the Moon soecficly). (I don't understand how Aries also know as MARS is ruled by Pluto instead of MARS..). Pluto is designed to overthrow, I could say I see this in my moon.

I compare the state of my moon as a lion facing a mamba whilst a python is already coiling around it's neck.

Interested to see if anyone has a couple of these aspecting there Moon and if they agree/ feel it as much as I do.}

I know it helps me to have things in one place I hope this will help others.

Any other traits that could be applied to all? Let me know so I can update it.

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: 8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:58 pm

To be clear for others who peruse this site:
  • Sidereal astrologers have never settled into a consensus concerning the validity of houses. I've stated my own views elsewhere; I just want to say here, as a caveat, that nothing in these bullet points presumes that houses actually exist or have value. (They may, or may not.)
  • Sidereal astrology places little emphasis on house-sign analogies. (In most contexts, Sidereal astrology places no emphasis on this at all.)
  • When house-sign analogies are considered at all, it is in terms of Fagan's recovery of the original 12-house model in which Libra (not Aries) equates to the first house.
  • Therefore, if Sidereal astrology equates Scorpio with any house, it would be the 2nd house, not the 8th. Pluto would have no connection at all, since Siderealists dismiss any connection between Pluto and Scorpio.
  • Additionally, I question whether there can ever be any true analogies between two 12-fold systems in which one is inherently clockwise and the other inherently counter-clockwise.
  • The writer above is quite entitled to an opinion and welcome to post it here. I'm fulfilling my responsibility to see that this site is clear on what is and is not part of the school of astrology called Sidereal astrology.
[TO BE CONTINUED]
ScarletDepths wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:59 pm
I don't understand how Aries also know as MARS is ruled by Pluto instead of MARS..).
I think you are confusing the Latin word aries with the Greek proper name Ares. They aren't spelled the same, aren't in the same language, and, in their native languages, aren't pronounced the same. (The Latin is pronounced roughly ar-ee-ace, the Greek name ah-rehs - so far as I can do these with simple English letters.

It makes a lousy pun :)
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Re: 8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:24 pm

Thankyou Jim. I go by my intuition and my gut says the reverse house system is wrong, if they are even viable to begin with, (maybe Leo is the first house and Cancer the 12th as some forms of astrology start with Leo. Again I don't know, however 8th house whatever it is ruled by is accurate in my persona in both tropical and sidereal discriptions.)

Yes I don't know how prominent the houses are but according to the writing in this site on each of the moon in the houses in the 12th house system I didnt make any sense that the 8th house was Taurus. However Pluto did rule wealth and the second house (from my understanding) is associated with wealth. (However Mars rules Scorpio in this practice).

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Re: 8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:37 pm

Pluto does not rule wealth. That's another error some astrologers repeat: Partly an error because you can't a priori presume mythic these are replicated in astrology, and partly because it confuses the Roman god Pluto with the Greek god Plutus.

My sense of the Scorpio would be connected to the 2nd House has to do with peering deeper into what the 2nd House. It's abundantly clear that it isn't wealth per se. (If houses are valid, the premise of 2nd describing wealth is trivial to disprove.) It may have to do with attachment and ownership, but these seem secondary to two deeper themes: First, it shows ego-surrogates - those things that are not us but that we cling to and relate to almost as if they were us (we might call these "proxy selves"). Second, it shows the first full surge outward, to competitively master the external environment and its elements.

Bottom line, it's substantially commercial competition and ego-attachment to trophies, merged with survival needs. All of this is utterly martial.
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Jupiter Sets at Dawn
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Re: 8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:38 pm

Scarlet, have you read solunars.org yet?

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Re: 8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:58 pm

Portions yes. I can't get fully into one thing (the start out sounds like a war in which I will not partake as both sides have their faults and less wrong is still wrong). I use astrology on a psychological level, there is a psychological connection between Pluto and the 8th house, however again this doesn't mean that Scorpio rules the 8th house. There are how're parallels in the house writings to the traditional signs. If you read 8th house moon and Scorpio there are parallels not to be ignored.

Why would a sign to lives by the mantra of freedom want to be attached to a material thing is my question (they wouldn't is the answer). Survival is also in the mind as much as it is physically.

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Re: 8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:06 pm

However protective of what is there's is incredibly accurate. I have mars in the Srcond house Capricorn btw. I think it's Plutoian Scorpios that resonate with the psychology of the 8th house whilst maybe the Maritan Scorpios resonate with the 2nd.

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Re: 8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:10 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:58 pm
Why would a sign to lives by the mantra of freedom want to be attached to a material thing is my question (they wouldn't is the answer). Survival is also in the mind as much as it is physically.
This is an example of how analogies between signs and houses are thin at best, and often misleading. A planet in a house is never going to have a meaning that matches a planet in a sign. The original sign-analogies were likely just there to start to give an inference, and (without thinking too much about Scorpio per se) we can just say that the relationship of aggressive competition and wealth is obvious enough. (Corporate CEOs have Mars angular as much as professional athletes.)

But that doesn't mean it's Scorpio. Signs aren't houses. At most, it gives us a hook to hang our hat on (and a way to see how house meanings emerged and were first sorted out).

Similarly, I dispute any outright connection between Pluto and the 8th House - something you seem to take as a given. It's easy to slip into that, with all the Tropical stuff on it for the last few decades. But we don't really find any such correspondence unless we twist and shade and adjust, ignoring inconsistencies, etc. For example, Pluto isn't intrinsically sexual and (especially!) it isn't oriented to others; and yet, the 8th house is particularly linked to others and their resources. When connected with a planet like Moon, either can reflect psychological turbulence, but they are quite different kinds. Their closest similarity is that the 8th house is all about a dive into one's depths, and Pluto is ultimately experience of the inmost, unconditioned point of existence - OK, so that's there. But, again, it's hardly a match.

I agree that one can argue a case that way... but I think it's weak ground. We should dismiss any connection between signs and houses, or we'll just keep misinterpreting both of them by trying to over-analogize one to the other.
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Re: 8th house vs 8th sign vs Pluto moon

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:18 pm

Very well. I still believe that there are connections I feel them, they might not be through the house Pluto moon aspect could just act as a wire for the energy of Scorpio to flow to the moon...

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