The Stars of Saints

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sotonye
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The Stars of Saints

Post by sotonye » Wed May 15, 2019 2:55 am

After going through the AA rated birth times for saints on Astro databank (found here: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ca ... Stigmatist), a couple things stood out to me. The first and I think most important thing is that Jupiter figures prominently with enough frequency to suggest a thing or two, often being configured with the Moon or Mercury, which I don't think is too surprising, since if I remember correctly Jupiter is the purveyor of the "religious impulse," and when placed in this way unafflicted in the natal it gives the native qualities we might call saintly (benevolence, generosity, kindness, tolerance, etc). It occurred to me further that, when considering the most basic principles of the planets of fortune—that benefic-dominant people benefit people—it might follow that the miraculous benefits conferred by the saints onto others might also be a consequence of Jupiter, which I think might be both a novel idea and a stretch, since when we normally think about the preternatural we think of Pluto, Neptune, Uranus, and sometimes the Moon. I'm also speculating that Jupiter's tendency toward the dispersion of passion might compel its natives toward a monastic life, but I can't be certain about that. What's also interesting is how often I saw angular Mars in these charts, this was unexpected. At any rate I think this set of people is really interesting, it's cool to try and figure out what planetary configurations make a Saint, and I think Jupiter is most fitting for the reasons above (but also Jupiter might suggest here postmortem popularity)
Last edited by sotonye on Wed May 15, 2019 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by sotonye » Wed May 15, 2019 2:57 am

I had been wondering for a while why, for the first 5 years of my adult life, I had been intensely devoted to a monastic lifestyle (spending several hours everyday in meditation and study) and I think Jupiter might be why, I just don't know why

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 15, 2019 6:28 am

What do you mean by "monastic"? Exactly what you wrote? The word normally is used foremost to indicate isolation and removal, and would be most characteristic of your exactly angular Pluto. (A secluded, cloistered lifestyle is normally Saturn or Pluto.)

That's an interest 6- or so names on the list, though everyone I looked at was low-certainty data. How many A or AA did you find? Any chance you could isolate all the AA, A, or B data and list the data here?
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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 15, 2019 8:28 am

Looks like I have a tiny pocket of time and can do these. Pasting here as I finish a block.

Elena Aiello, Apr 10 1895, 10 AM, Montalto Uffugo, Italy (B)
Saint Bernadette, Jan 7 1844, 2:00 PM, Lourdes, France (AA)
St. John Bosco, Aug 16 1815, 5:30 PM, Castelnuofo Don Bosco, Italy (AA)
Titus Brandsma, Feb 23 1881, 4:30 AM, Bosward, Netherlands (AA)
St. Catherine, May 2 1806, 6:00 PM, Fain les Moutiers, France (AA)
Elia Dalla Costa, May 14 1872, 2:00 PM, Villaverta, Italyt (AA)
Elisabeth of the Trinity, July 18 1880, 8:00 AM, Bourges, France (AA)
Sister Emmanuelle, Nov 16 1908, 8:15 AM, Schaerbeek, Belgium (AA)
Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer, Jan 9 1902, 10:00 pm, Barbastro, Spain (AA)
Peter Julian Eymard, Feb 4 1811, 5:00 AM, La Mure, France (AA)
Nino Fidencio, Nov 13 1898, 5:00 PM, Iramuco, Mexico (AA)
St. Francis of Sales, Aug 21 1567 (OS), 9:30 PM, Thorens Glieres, France (B)
Maria Teresa Goretti, Oct 16 1890, 1:15 PM, Corinaldo, Italy (AA)
San Alberto Hurtado, Jan 22 1901, 5:00 AM, Vina del Mar, Chile (AA)
Adolph Kolping, Dec 8 1813, 3:00 PM, Kepen, Germany (AA)
Resl von Konnersreuth, Apr 9 1898, 1:00 AM, Konnersreuth, Germany (AA)
Faustina Kowalska, Aug 25 1905, 3:00 PM, Glogowek, Poland (AA)
Pedro de Jesus Mldonado, Jun 15 1892, 12L00 PM, Chihuahua, Mexico (AA)
Yvonne-Aimee de Malestroit, Jul 16 1901, 6:45 PM, Paris, France (AA)
Francisco Marto, Jun 11 1908, 3:00 AM, Aljustrel, Portugal (AA)
Jacinta Marto, Mar 11 1910, 4:00 PM, Aljustrel (Fatima), Portugal (AA)
Gianna Beretta Molla, Oct 4 1922, 6:00 AM, Magenta, Italy (AA)
Thomas More, Feb 7 1478, 2:30 AM, London, England (A)
Ezequiel Moreno Diaz, Apr 9 1848, 11:00 AM, Alfaro, Spain (AA)
Philip Neri, Jul 22 1515, 1:30 AM, Florence, Italy (AA)
Vincenzo Pallotti, Apr 21 1795, 4:00 PM, Rome, Italy (AA)
Padre Pio, May 25, 1887, 5:00 PM, Pietrelcina, Italy (AA)
Pope Pius IX, May 13 1792, 1:30 PM, Senigallia, Italy (AA)
Pope Pius X, Jun 2 1835, 11:00 PM, Riese Pio X, Italy (B)
Luigi Beltrame Quattrocchi, Jan 12 1880, 3:15 PM, Catania, Italy (AA)
Maria Corsini Quattrocchi, Jun 24, 1884, 10:00 M, Fierene, Italt (AA)
Ramakrishna, Feb 18 1836, 5:00 AM, Karmarpukar, India (B)
Bernardino Realino, Dec 1 1530, 2:00 PM, Carpi, Italy (B)
Marthe Robin, Mar 13 1902, 5:00 PM, Chateauneuf-Galaure, France (AA)
Benildus Romancon, Jun 14 1805, 9:00 AM, Thuret, France (AA)
Oscar Romerio, Aug 15 1917, 3:00 AM, Ciudad Barrios, El Salvador (AA)
Rosa de Lima, Apr 30 1586 (NS), 4:00 M, Lima, Peru (B)
Lidwina Van Schiedam, Mar 18 1380, 11:00 AM, Schiedam, Netherlands (B)
Edith Stein, Oct 12 1891, 12:30 AM, Breslau, Germany (AA)
St. Teresa of Avila, Mar 28 1515, 5:00 AM, Avila, Spain
Teresa of the Andes, Jul 13, 1900, 11:30 AM, Santiago, Chile (AA)
St. Therese of Lisieux, jan 2, 1873, 11:30 PM, Alencon, France (AA)
Sam Hectr Valdivielso, Oct 31, 1910, 5:00 AM, Buenos Aires, Argentina (AA)
Sister Emilie de Villeneuve, Mar 9, 1811, 1:00 AM, Toulouse, France (AA)

A lot of popes who were canonized aren't on this list. Here are others to add, for whom we have data:

Pope John XXIII, Nov 25 1881, 10:15 AM, Sotto di Monte, Italt
Pope John Paul II, Oct 17 1912, 11:30 AM, Canale d'Agordo, Italy
Pope Paul VI, Sep 26, 1897, 10:30 PM, Concesio, Italy
Pope Pius V, Jan 17 1504, 9:00 AM, Bosco, Italy
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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by sotonye » Wed May 15, 2019 7:04 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:28 am
What do you mean by "monastic"? Exactly what you wrote? The word normally is used foremost to indicate isolation and removal, and would be most characteristic of your exactly angular Pluto. (A secluded, cloistered lifestyle is normally Saturn or Pluto.)
I totally forgot about Pluto, but the definition you put forward matches what I mean, total removal from others

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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by sotonye » Wed May 15, 2019 7:11 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:28 am
Looks like I have a tiny pocket of time and can do these. Pasting here as I finish a block.

Elena Aiello, Apr 10 1895, 10 AM, Montalto Uffugo, Italy (B)
Saint Bernadette, January 7, 1844, 2:00 PM, Lourdes, France (AA)
St. John Bosco, Aug 16, 1815, 5:30 PM, Castelnuofo Don Bosco, Italy (AA)
Titus Brandsma, Feb 23, 1881, 4:30 AM, Bosward, Netherlands (AA)
St. Catherine, May 2, 1806, 6:00 PM, Fain les Moutiers, France (AA)
Elia Dalla Costa, May 14, 1872, 2:00 PM, Villaverta, Italyt (AA)
Elisabeth of the Trinity, July 18, 1880, 8:00 AM, Bourges, France (AA)
Sister Emmanuelle, November 16, 1908, 8:15 AM, Schaerbeek, Belgium (AA)
Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer, Jan 9 1902, 10:00 pm, Barbastro, Spain (AA)
Peter Julian Eymard, Feb 4 1811, 5:00 AM, La Mure, France (AA)
Nino Fidencio, Nov 13 1898, 5:00 PM, Iramuco, Mexico (AA)
St. Francis of Sales, Aug 21 1567 (OS), 9:30 PM, Thorens Glieres, France (B)
Maria Teresa Goretti, Oct 16 1890, 1:15 PM, Corinaldo, Italy (AA)
San Alberto Hurtado, Jan 22 1901, 5:00 AM, Vina del Mar, Chile (AA)
Adolph Kolping, Dec 8 1813, 3:00 PM, Kepen, Germany (AA)
Resl von Konnersreuth, Apr 9 1898, 1:00 AM, Konnersreuth, Germany (AA)
Faustina Kowalska, Aug 25 1905, 3:00 PM, Glogowek, Poland (AA)
Pedro de Jesus Mldonado, Jun 15 1892, 12L00 PM, Chihuahua, Mexico (AA)
Yvonne-Aimee de Malestroit, Jul 16 1901, 6:45 PM, Paris, France (AA)
Francisco Marto, Jun 11 1908, 3:00 AM, Aljustrel, Portugal (AA)
Jacinta Marto, Mar 11 1910, 4:00 PM, Aljustrel (Fatima), Portugal (AA)
Gianna Beretta Molla, Oct 4 1922, 6:00 AM, Magenta, Italy (AA)
Thomas More, Feb 7 1478, 2:30 AM, London, England (A)
Ezequiel Moreno Diaz, Apr 9 1848, Alfaro, Spain (AA)
Philip Neri, Jul 22 1515, 1:30 AM, Florence, Italy (AA)
Vincenzo Pallotti, Apr 21 1795, 4:00 PM, Rome, Italy (AA)
Padre Pio, May 25, 1887, 5:00 PM, Pietrelcina, Italy (AA)
Pope Pius IX, May 13 1792, 1:30 PM, Senigallia, Italy (AA)
Pope Pius X, Jun 2 1835, 11:00 PM, Riese Pio X, Italy (B)
Luigi Beltrame Quattrocchi, Jan 12 1880, 3:15 PM, Catania, Italy (AA)
Maria Corsini Quattrocchi, Jun 24, 1884, 10:00 M, Fierene, Italt (AA)
Ramakrishna, Feb 18 1836, 5:00 AM, Karmarpukar, India (B)
Bernardino Realino, Dec 1 1530, 2:00 PM, Carpi, Italy (B)
Marthe Robin, Mar 13 1902, 5:00 PM, Chateauneuf-Galaure, France (AA)
Benildus Romancon, Jun 14 1805, 9:00 AM, Thuret, France (AA)
Oscar Romerio, Aug 15 1917, 3:00 AM, Ciudad Barrios, El Salvador (AA)
Rosa de Lima, Apr 30 1586 (NS), 4:00 M, Lima, Peru (B)
Lidwina Van Schiedam, Mar 18 1380, 11:00 AM, Schiedam, Netherlands (B)
Edith Stein, Oct 12 1891, 12:30 AM, Breslau, Germany (AA)
St. Teresa of Avila, Mar 28 1515, 5:00 AM, Avila, Spain
Teresa of the Andes, Jul 13, 1900, 11:30 AM, Santiago, Chile (AA)
St. Therese of Lisieux, jan 2, 1873, 11:30 PM, Alencon, France (AA)
Sam Hectr Valdivielso, Oct 31, 1910, 5:00 AM, Buenos Aires, Argentina (AA)
Sister Emilie de Villeneuve, Mar 9, 1811, 1:00 AM, Toulouse, France (AA)

A lot of popes who were canonized aren't on this list. Here are others to add, for whom we have data:

Pope John XXIII, Nov 25 1881, 10:15 AM, Sotto di Monte, Italt
Pope John Paul II, Oct 17 1912, 11:30 AM, Canale d'Agordo, Italy
Pope Paul VI, Sep 26, 1897, 10:30 PM, Concesio, Italy
Pope Pius V, Jan 17 1504, 9:00 AM, Bosco, Italy
After going through this list (excepting the popes at the bottom), and tallying up the most common Moon, Sun, and Mercury aspects, as well as angular planets, I got:

Most Common Moon Aspect:

Moon-Jupiter (x10)

Most Common Sun Apect:

Sun-Pluto (X11)

Most Common Mercury Aspect:

Mercury-Jupiter (x11)

Most Common Angular Planet:

Pluto (x12)


I think this list matches well what we know about these planets and configurations (I'll have to go through Venus, Mars, and outer planet aspects tomorrow)

sotonye
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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by sotonye » Wed May 15, 2019 7:32 pm

Is there any association between Pluto and healing and miracles?

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 15, 2019 8:17 pm

"Miracle" is a primary Pluto keyword. Time to reread the Kid Gloves article on Pluto!
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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by Beanies+Bad habits » Thu May 16, 2019 1:38 pm

I am no saint however I can definitely say that Jupiter+Pluto have themes of spirituality that to many may seem miraculous or down right almost brainwashed. The study if religion is something that seems important to the Jupiter-Pluto archetype. It's also a constant battle to choose one religion or to never settle on one at all.

It's an interesting energy to have for certain.. glad my own us balanced by other planets.
Ey bawon, pa ge, maman brigette. Ey Oya. En lugar de mi, kome un pollo por favor.

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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 16, 2019 1:42 pm

BTW, I've mounted all that raw data into a spreadsheet, and will start calculating the charts and tabulating a full statistical workup.
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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by Veronica » Thu May 16, 2019 3:26 pm

Beanies+Bad habits wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:38 pm
I am no saint however I can definitely say that Jupiter+Pluto have themes of spirituality that to many may seem miraculous or down right almost brainwashed. The study if religion is something that seems important to the Jupiter-Pluto archetype. It's also a constant battle to choose one religion or to never settle on one at all.

It's an interesting energy to have for certain.. glad my own us balanced by other planets.
Or to make your own

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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by sotonye » Thu May 16, 2019 3:31 pm

Beanies+Bad habits wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:38 pm
I am no saint however I can definitely say that Jupiter+Pluto have themes of spirituality that to many may seem miraculous or down right almost brainwashed.
"Brainwashed" is a hard sell, any involvement with Pluto is going give a certain level autonomy and uniqueness. The principles for Jupiter-Pluto aspects sum this up nicely, being, "Outlier ambition, singular, extraordinary successes or fails," and the description does an even better job: "Thrives being controversial within their (social or political) circles. Strong desire to contribute. Feels unbound by precedent. Unapologetic genuineness + commitment to community (family, group, tribe); social outlier but not aloof. Controversial, appears rebellious against contemporary structures (social, intellectual, political)."
The study if religion is something that seems important to the Jupiter-Pluto archetype. It's also a constant battle to choose one religion or to never settle on one at all.
The battle if there is one wouldn't be of one between religions, but one between the status quo (Jupiter) and oneself (Pluto)
It's an interesting energy to have for certain.. glad my own us balanced by other planets.
Very interesting energy yes, but don't forget your Jupiter is angular

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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by sotonye » Thu May 16, 2019 3:35 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:17 pm
"Miracle" is a primary Pluto keyword. Time to reread the Kid Gloves article on Pluto!
Thank you for the suggestion, just reread this and I'm astounded at this planet but also terrified? He calls the planet undoubtedly diabolical, then follows with that it's also commonly found in the maps of saints? Given the paradox theme of Aries I have no doubt anymore that its ruled by this planet

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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by sotonye » Thu May 16, 2019 3:37 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:42 pm
BTW, I've mounted all that raw data into a spreadsheet, and will start calculating the charts and tabulating a full statistical workup.
Thank you Mr. E, hopefully what I found wasn't too off the mark!

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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 16, 2019 8:15 pm

I've finished tabulating 24 of the 48 saints. Preliminary results at this point might not persist in the second half, but I want to mention them since I have no idea which week in the next couple of months I'll be able to return and finish this.

So, understand that anything in this post might not stand up with the full collection.

One fascinating detail is that, so far, SUN IN TAURUS is the leading placement. This is exactly the same result as in my study of all popes of the last 11 centuries, even though I haven't yet tabulated any of the sainted popes. So far, Sun is not in Aries even once, and five other signs only have 1 occurrence.

MOON IN GEMINI is the leader so far, by a bit of a margin. In fact, there are other Gemini predominances. I don't take Gemini rising too seriously because that's where Ascendant spends most of its time in the northern hemisphere, but there is also a Mars in Gemini slight lead. Gemini keeps popping out. (Venus is also most often in Gemini, but we don't have good figures on predicting Venus' expected distribution.)

If we take angular planets by straight head-count - everything that fits the "angular" definition is counted equally - then Venus and Pluto tie for top honors with Jupiter and Sun and slightly behind them. However, if we weight the major angles more than the minor ones, Pluto is the clear leader with Jupiter in second place and Venus third.

My spreadsheet automatically tallies aspects in multiple ways - selecting different aspect sets (e.g., hard only, hard weighted more than soft, all treated equally) and they are all pretty much in agreement. Something I've seen as I go chart by chart, which persists in the tallies so far, is that MOON-URANUS and MARS-SATURN shoot ahead of everything else. Nothing comes close in all ways of tallying aspects, but a couple of aspects come next depending on how the number crunching is done. For example, in straight raw counts (everything in the target orb range is treated equally), Mercury-Jupiter is the only aspect to approach the other two. However, when aspects are weighted by type of aspect, Mars-Saturn lags back a bit and Moon-Uranus is tired by Mars-Neptune and Sun-Saturn. If we count only conjunctions, oppositions, and squares, Moon-Uranus falls back and the two in the lead are Mars-Neptune and Sun-Saturn. (This doesn't feel as "on target" as the other mix, suggesting that the full picture is more nuanced than counting only conjunctions, oppositions, and squares.)
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Re: The Stars of Saints

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri May 17, 2019 8:11 pm

I finished the full study. You can find it here:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3214
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