What makes you LGBT+

General Discussion on Natal Astrology matters for which a specific forum does not exist
Saya Otonashi
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What makes you LGBT+

Post by Saya Otonashi » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:18 pm

This thread is dedicated to the planetary combinations etc. that can make people LGBT+.

I always thought Uranus plays a part in 'out of the norm' sexuality and it's quite accurate.

Well, here's an interesting post on lesbians:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/117177595/AS ... -A-LESBIAN

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Jupiter Sets at Dawn
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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:35 pm

Did you see the material already in the archives? Might be worth a look so we don't repeat repeat repeat ourselves.

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Re: What makes you gay?

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:37 pm

Please don't post mulitple threads on the same subject.

Badly afflicted 7th house? Um...

You seem to be a tropicalist. I think you may want to find out who we are and what we do before posting more. Start here: https://www.solunars.org/

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Re: What makes you gay?

Post by Saya Otonashi » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:42 pm

Oops! Sorry.
I didn't mean to.

Feel free to delete any repetitions.

I wanted to change the name but I somehow ended up with duplicate topics.

Btw I'm a Vedic astrology enthusiast :)

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:51 pm

I merged the two topics.
You're welcome here, but this is not a Vedic forum. And you weren't born under the sign of Cancer.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Saya Otonashi » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:56 pm

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:51 pm
I merged the two topics.
You're welcome here, but this is not a Vedic forum. And you weren't born under the sign of Cancer.
Thanks for merging and for your welcome :)

Oh, I thought sidereal means Vedic because all yhe constellations names are same as that of Vedic.

And yes, I'm not Cancer as per Vedic either. So I got really confused :(

Anyway, sidereal astrology is interesting! :) Might as well learn some :)

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:33 pm

Ugh. I spent half an hour writing a long answer to this then, on trying to save it, it evaporated - because the thread I was answering didn't exist any longer.

I'm not going to recreate the answer, but I wanted you to know I took the time to answer it.
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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Venus_Daily » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:33 pm

This is a multi-faceted answer.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Saya Otonashi » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:33 pm
Ugh. I spent half an hour writing a long answer to this then, on trying to save it, it evaporated - because the thread I was answering didn't exist any longer.

I'm not going to recreate the answer, but I wanted you to know I took the time to answer it.
That happened because I wanted to change the name of the thread and it somehow became 2 threads. Later, the mod merged them.

I'm so sorry for the trouble, it's your wish whether or not you want to recreate the answer, because I know it's very annoying to write a long article and then have it gone. The frustration remains and I end up abandoning the task myself.

I just want to thank you for your help on my natal chart thread (please answer my question there) and for creating this forum :) I appreciate it.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by randallnyc » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:42 am

Here is THE answer on "what makes you LGBT" irrespective of which system of astrology you use: NOTHING ASTROLOGICALLY. End of story. That's like asking if astrology can determine if someone is left-handed.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:21 am

LGBT+ are all so different. While it's the style now to lump them all together as "gender identities that are discriminated against or actively dangerous to admit to" they aren't all the same thing. I suspect you are asking about an orientation toward same sex partners.
While Randall's declaration is factual for the most part, I think there are natal aspects that point to a tendency toward same sex orientation, but they don't always express if they aren't angular and the environment isn't conducive.

We do have to understand astrology is not the only thing that makes people what they are. There's Fagan's famous example of a King of England and a commoner, born at the same time on the same date within a mile or so of each other, whose lives proceeded along the same paths and timelines. They married on the same date. At the time one was crowned King, the other opened his own business. Things like that. There's nature and nurture, conditions set at birth, things you're born with, and things that come from your environment. Sometimes it's hard to separate what "causes" what, and sometimes several things work together.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by randallnyc » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:42 am

I would think Fagan's use of the Novien, which he called a "Sexascope" may shed light.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:25 am

I doubt it.
If you type "novien" into the search box upper right on this page, you'll get 5 pages of references. Skip to the fifth page and you'll find a thread The Novien - Fagan's views and another STUDY - U.S. Presidents - Navamsa vs. Novien. Another is Navamsa vs. Novien Moon for U.S. Presidents .

Most of the rest of the postings about Noviens (and Navamsas) here just repeat the information given in those threads when somebody brings them up again.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:59 pm

Mars-Uranus will give a person sexual creativity, and outside-the box ideas. Pluto will give authenticity and refusal to follow "norms".

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Veronica » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:42 am

Mars/Uranus.....Mars-Uranus

Hmmm....

I have never wanted to have sex with a girl
But maybe Ive never met a girl who combined with me in a way that inticed me to explore.
I have entangled with a man
And we have this aspect
Does that mean we are gay?
That the stars show some determined quailty that lay latent waiting to be explored?
Maybe
Maybe not

In this link it is said
I was born when I was born because thats who I am
Not
I am who I am because I was born....

I grew up with my father constantly asking me
"Why did you do that"

And he never let me make excuses for my behavior

It was an excellent read and I think weighs in on this conversation.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1968&p=14034&hilit=Harmonic#p14034

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:33 am

Veronica, I think it's more true that if you were inclined to want to have sex with a woman, you wouldn't let convention, timidity, other people's opinions stop you from it. Similarly, if you were just a little interested and thought somebody was going to try to stop you, or if you just wanted an adventure, you might go ahead and do it anyway.

Strong Mars-Uranus aspects mean that in pretty much every area of your life you are uncompromisingly individualist, bold, a natural rebel who challenges prevailing thinking, often leaping into something new and offbeat. You take risks psychologically, are more sexually uninhibited than most people, and trust your own instincts more than outside advice.

This is what I meant about these being lifestyle effects more than markers of homosexuality per se. Imagine yourself really wanting to have sex with a woman in a time and place where this was condemned and repressed. You would be one of the people that would say, "I don't care, I'm going for it. C'mere, babe!" Right? And then your chart would be added by some astrologer to the pile of bi or lesbian charts they were collecting :)

This is why, during earlier decades, one rarely found an openly gay person, living a candidly gay lifestyle, that didn't have one or more of Venus or Mars aspecting Uranus or Pluto; and today you can easily find gays' charts without these. Bless the rebels, they knock down the walls that bind everyone else.
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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Veronica » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:31 pm

Right you are Jim!
Very true.
Your damn straight that if I was inclined to have sex with anyone...I would. No holds barred.
Annndddd.....
B.E.G.
If society said it was taboo....
I would do it full force on the Altar in which they were bound....in broad daylight....and probaly put a notice in the paper before hand so everyone could come and watch....

But that not just sex.
If I was inclinded to knit a sweater and it was forbidden to knit.....
Id be right there again....hookin one pearling two.

That is who I am after all.
I trust my heart
And if my heart says I need a knitted sweater
Then Im going to knit a sweater


I thought long and hard about me being a little interested....and thinking someone was trying to stop me. Woo that made me go...no way...no one has ever tried to stop me from anything I wanted. But then I remembered when I first got my job at the library years ago and I wanted to get my hands on the Reference Books in the Occult case the librarian had locked up behind her desk. Damn them holders of the key i thought to myself. Who do they think they are limiting knowldge and information. It took me some time and alot of hard work but She gave me the key after I proved I was responsible.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:09 pm

Exactly!
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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by mikestar13 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:32 am

Reminds me of a female coworker I read a nativity for in the 80's. Her sexual adventures with guys were notorious with her full consent--she told me she enjoyed having a "reputation." Seeing a tight Venus-Uranus square with angular Mars rising in Aquarius, I said "you go for girls too." She asked me "what bitch told you, I'll kill her!" No one had and there were no rumors. What I knew of her personality combined with the chart made it a good 90+% guess. Later we became good friends and confidants. She told me "I don't crave a woman nearly as often as I crave a man, but when I do, it's much more intense." She is also very high on the list of women I regret never having sex with. :(
Time matters

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:11 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:33 am
This is what I meant about these being lifestyle effects more than markers of homosexuality per se. Imagine yourself really wanting to have sex with a woman in a time and place where this was condemned and repressed. You would be one of the people that would say, "I don't care, I'm going for it. C'mere, babe!" Right? And then your chart would be added by some astrologer to the pile of bi or lesbian charts they were collecting

This is why, during earlier decades, one rarely found an openly gay person, living a candidly gay lifestyle, that didn't have one or more of Venus or Mars aspecting Uranus or Pluto; and today you can easily find gays' charts without these. Bless the rebels, they knock down the walls that bind everyone else.
This is interesting. Yes my observations match that of Jim's, that gay people born in homophobic countries, or who were born during homophobic times, are more likely to have these aspects close, (especially Mars-Pluto and Venus-Pluto aspects) and in more progressive, LGBT friendly countries, it's not as often to find gay people with them.

I also noticed that a few gay men even had a prominent Pluto (e.g. Sun-Pluto aspects) like transgender people. I suppose they are/were under even worse oppression. And then I once saw a bisexual guy's chart with a close Mercury-Uranus aspect, something Jim has noticed among some bisexuals too.

I also (kinda?) notice that gay people with these aspects (Venus or Mars aspecting Pluto especially, myself included) are more willing to "stick being gay", i.e. are less willing to marry people of the opposite sex to blend into society. Because it is hard for some gay people to "stick being gay" in a homophobic country. It was sad when a fellow Malaysian gay man online, once told me "Are you 100% gay? You don't like women at all? Are you going to stick being gay in this country? It will be very hard". :(

But it's not like once they marry the opposite sex, they don't end up having gay sex again...

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Raksasa » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:40 pm

Let me be blunt.

I'm not gay, I just havent met a woman who does it.

When people ask why dont I like the feminine counterpart I typically respond with "my dick doesn't like vagina, I see it and go soft, and that's why I'm gay". This goes the same for the female body in general. Its entirely sexual/physical not emotional.

I get asked this not so frequently because I am comfortable with my masculinity and I'm rather dominant (so much so that people are afraid to ask if they get a hunch).

Part of being gay too for me is asserting my dominance on a figure society typically sees as a more dominant figure, therefore I don't like feminine men. Partly because it's fun, partly because I want to spite the social standard.

This confuses some people more because I'm a extremely masculine person who likes other masculine people. [With other preferences of course].

Another part of the dominance for me is I won't receive, nor will I go down on someone. I've done the latter before once when I was younger [try everything once you know] and phalis doesn't do it for me either, in addition while im comfortable with my masculinity I am not comfortable in a position where I'm not in physical control.

In terms of dating I would date a woman if her personality was great. I would of course be upfront about not being bisexual. I attribute this openness to romamce being Venus acting on my Sun. In addition Uranus lets me be open minded. Bi-romantic is cool because I dont feel as limited [another feeling I don't like].

In terms of being homosexual for me its so easily Mars-Uranus for the dominance side. Uranus and Pluto are what causes me to do it to strike out against society, which I am told I'm radical to other gays (most of whom I've met support more feminine energy in at least one partner, they don't all see that they support the idea of like energy).

I don't particularly like loud, bold, rainbow waving gay side ether. The community wants to be accepted then they should stop trying to be different (I'm fone with the wanting to be different part but then don't complain when your treated differently). This thought is a huge part of my sexuality but I'd still consider it in the realm of Uranus because it is a radical thought, it's just as loud as pride but for a different reason. In addition to Pluto because this is part of being authentically myself.

For reference I have:
r Uranus-Nov. Venus
r Uranus- Nov. Mercury
Nov. Mars-r Uranus
Nov. Uranus-r Mars
r Mars- Nov. Mercury
Mars-Mercury (double strength)
Mars-Venus (double strength)
Pluto-Moon
In addition to Mars and Pluto acting on Jupiter.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:19 pm

It hadn't occurred to me that one way your Sagittarius comes is in dominance - hierarchical seniority in terms of being "the one on top." - It has, of course, always been clear that defying convention (especially arbitrary convention) is important to your Moon-Pluto square.

You draw a "laugh out loud" chortle out of me with your open declaration, though. It reminded me of a friend of a friend. He was straight by choice and activity his whole adult life but, in a couple of long trips crisscrossing the U.S. by thumb he had, er, routinely paid the toll for his hitchhiking as a practical expediency. At a noisy social event, the room just happened to get temporarily quiet (a lull in the noisy conversations) the moment he said (a bit loud), "I've sucked enough cock in my life to know I'm not gay." As it echoed around the room, it was a bit more forthright than he had meant it to be, I think.

Anyway, it seemed to me that you were presuming a measure of 'fay' (heavily fem-leaning) in homosexuality, then contrasting yourself to that as an exception. However (perhaps because I had so many friends in the Hollywood gay street scene in the '70s), I don't think that characterization is any more true than in the rest of the population. One gay friend (a prominent Sidereal astrologer btw) who had a Leo Sun trine Mars and an exact Moon-Mars square explained to me his view once: That, far from being anything fem, his homosexuality (and that of most men he knew) was because he was more into male body parts and characteristics that most people. It was, to him, hyper-male, hyper-phallic, not un-male. (Kind of like, years ago, when somebody asked me why men get so hot at Lesbian porn and I answered, "Twice as many naked women having sex.")

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Raksasa » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:55 pm

Thanks for the response Jim. I dont think I would attribute the physical part of my power needs to Sagittarius however, the mental being on top makes sense. For me the physicality is clearly Mars in nature not Sun/Jupiter. There is also a distinction between the two energies I have noticed. For Jupiter it's a desire to be on top and the preference is the easiest path. For Mars it's all about the struggle.
I don't want a predator prey situation, it is more fun when it's more like two tigers fighting.

Also Pluto for me is not a loud planet, it's just dynamic. Without Uranus/Mars and some Jupiter/Sun influences I dont think I would ever ACT on my Pluto energy.

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:11 am

Raksasa wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:40 pm
I don't particularly like loud, bold, rainbow waving gay side ether. The community wants to be accepted then they should stop trying to be different (I'm fone with the wanting to be different part but then don't complain when your treated differently).
What's wrong with that. I don't remember reading anything in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that said a human's rights depend on how they behave and present themselves in society.

Also I don't see how drag queens, guys in their underwear or leather BDSM outfits, and kissing lesbians wearing and waving pride flags marching down the street would be a huge problem that lead to why the LGBT community is not being accepted. They were doing things like that since the Stonewall riots. Very Mars-Uranus things that Jim talked about a few posts above. And it lead to marriage equality for your country in 2015. You said you relate to Mars-Uranus very much. Aren't you able to see anything Mars-Uranus in pride parades? It's literally a march of people fed up of homophobic nonsense and being treated like second-class citizens, like contemptible sub-humans, and saying f you, I will be wholeheartedly unapologetically myself, and I'll play with your stereotypes of us to scare you off. That latter bit is also pretty Capricorn. This is something you would love! Maybe you can try heading down to NYC for Pride next year. Get the Stonewall spirit in you.

Most people in the LGBT community are pretty normal people, as you would know. Some are a little "slutty" and flamboyant at times, but who cares, what's the issue with that actually. Homophobes back then said being gay is unnatural, disgusting, an abomination, and now when it's not cool to say that anymore, they say they don't like their agenda, how rainbow and freakish they are, being indecent and ish. It doesn't change the fact that the LGBT community deserves all the right to live a normal life like everyone else, yes?

There's also nothing un-masculine with liking men, with taking part in pride parades, with being bold, or boldly flamboyant, if that's your issue. You're a masc4masc gay guy, and with what I've observed, I don't really think masculine gay men are any less masculine than straight men. The former like men, the latter like women. That is all. And not all straight men are very masculine, of course (and it's cool 8-)).

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Re: What makes you LGBT+

Post by Veronica » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:19 am

Raksasa wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:40 pm
Let me be blunt.

I'm not gay, I just havent met a woman who does it.
I had no idea who this member was so I read the whole thinking....hmmm.....

I completely agree
You are not gay.

You sound like you have absolutely no emotional connection or deep feelings for the men you are dominating. You say you wont recieve, yet your giving?
Relationships are about bonding and from what you have admitted you are doing in your sex life, I dont see any mutal bonds.

Thats not gay.
Ill refrain from saying what I actually think it is.
But I will say that in my expierence
What comes around goes around

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