Lance: Chart Discussion

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Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Mon May 15, 2017 8:31 am

Name on forum: Lance
Birth date: October 20, 1972
Birth time: 7:11 AM
Birth place: Beaumont, TX
Source: birth certificate

Current residence: Groves, TX
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I'm open to questions or comments on any part of my natal chart. At the moment, however, I've been a little overwhelmed by my progressed chart relative to my natal.

I'm a Sun in Libra, but a I have an afflicted Venus square (2°41') Saturn in my natal chart.

In my progressed chart, progressed Saturn has slowly been retrograding over my natal Venus for more than the last decade, becoming precise at the end of 2015, which was a really horrible time for me in ways keeping with the symbolism. Progressed Saturn will still be within a degree for another decade as it continues to retrograde - about 6 minutes a year.

I'm just kind of ...overwhelmed by the thought of that right now. My wife and I were definitely tested in our relationship. I'm very glad "exact" is past, and I am just hoping the worst is really over.

Any comments or words of wisdom?

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Mon May 15, 2017 9:15 am

The most dominating tone/theme in your personal life is Sun & Uranus, a super great combo for discovering unique things—like astrology. I should know, I was born with a partile 90 of Sun-Uranus, and have been studying Astrology for 39 years. Your Sun is 03,12 cnj Asc, and mundo rising Uranus 05,06 cnj Asc.
Do you have any Sidereal Astrology books to study for the rest of your life? :)
I'm a Sun in Libra, but I have an afflicted Venus square (2°41') Saturn in my natal chart.
Yes, but the only time this will become a major problem, IF it came close to the angles of one of your SSRs (Solar Returns), imo, and then, IF it happened, it would depend greatly how your SSR set-up. Others may offer their opinion on this matter.
I'm just kind of ...overwhelmed by the thought of that right now. My wife and I were definitely tested in our relationship. I'm very glad "exact" is past, and I am just hoping the worst is really over.
Yes, but not involved with the angles now, but will become involved 2020-2023, along with p. Asc cnj p. Neptune & Natal Neptune. You need to look at your SSRs for these years to see any possible ‘themed’ symbolism.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 15, 2017 9:36 am

You definitely have my sympathy. My closest equivalent is that I had a progressed Venus-Saturn conjunction for several years, and those years were emotionally hard.

The single most distinctive feature of the time is that, twice in the period (different people), I came up to a situation where someone I cared about greatly, and to whom I felt both responsibility and devotion, deteriorated in health and capacity very rapidly. I had to deal with that part of it, and then with the issue of their future needs and my responsibility/devotion. In the first case (and a lesser extent the second case), I had to go through the process of deciding that their care needs would likely outweigh my continuing with things in my life that I felt gave contribution to the world and expressed my particular strengths. That seemed to be the internal shift the universe wanted me to make because, in both cases, once I'd the decision (and without having told anybody - it was all internal), the other person's family pulled them away to private care outside my geographic reach. In one sense, this was a new layer of loss to deal with; in another sense, it freed me from a responsibility I would have felt bound to regardless.

That aspect passed. Life changed. And, just this year, Venus (returning from retrogradation) has returned to conjoin Saturn within a degree, and is moving slowly enough that it probably will last the rest of my life. I'm not particularly looking forward to it, though I trust the universe to lead me where I need to go.

In your immediate future, the biggest transit is Uranus on your Descendant and opposite your Sun. Look these up in the Transits section. It probably will challenge your closest relationship, but in a much more positive, opening way more often than not; plus, with the transit to your Sun, you will be offered ways to change significantly, and that's your path through this. Watch the periods Saturn squares your Moon - they will be roughest, and will require good choices and sensitivity.

That's all I've got at the moment.
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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Mon May 15, 2017 9:51 am

Lance, what is the present health conditions of your mother/father? Do you have brothers/sisters who can care for an ailing mother/father? I know this: I had t. Neptune partile cnj my natal IC, off and on, for a couple years, and I had to care for my mother with some serious health issues. It marked some of the most confusing (Neptune) times in my entire life.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Mon May 15, 2017 10:02 am

Thank you both. You've given me a lot to look at and think about/prepare for mentally.

Steve - Yeah, both parents are hitting 80 in a year's time. No, I don't have brothers or sisters to help. They're still okay at present, but I know that's coming.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Steve - Yeah, both parents are hitting 80 in a year's time. No, I don't have brothers or sisters to help. They're still okay at present, but I know that's coming.
Ah, this tells me there is good probability you may have to care for one/both as a primary care giver, just as I had to do for my mother and her health issues. Later, I will try to look at your SSRs for this period in the future.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Mon May 15, 2017 1:42 pm

Lance, below is your secondary progressed natal chart for Oct 20, 2020. Note the partile 180 p. Sun-Saturn, partile cnj your p. EP-WP axis (very important auxiliary angles). Note your natal Venus partile 90 p. Sun-Saturn, with natal Venus 1,25 cnj p. MC, a most potent p. angular planetary picture. This has higher than normal % for timing a year for crises pertaining to any type of love relationship. Also note p. Natal Asc partile cnj p. Neptune, a very potent angular influence. I wanted to post this chart so you could see the angular difference of p. Saturn 90 your n. Venus. It's our angular hits that time important incidents in our life. Next, I will post your 2022 SSR.
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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 15, 2017 1:53 pm

SteveS wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 1:42 pm
It's our angular hits that time important incidents in our life. Next, I will post your 2022 SSR.
I agree on this point where secondary progressions are concerned only where the word "incident" is concerned, if by that word one means an event. I don't think the point of secondary progressions is events, though. It's psychological states and personal permanent psychological shifts. The aspects work when they're in orb and especially when they are quite close; angularity has nothing to do with it. This was the whole point of Fagan's original article, "The Incidents & Accidents of Astrology."
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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Mon May 15, 2017 2:09 pm

Yes, main emphasis for secondary progressions--psychological shifts--not an event written in stone, its good to have you backing my wrong choice of words. :) I think his 2022 SSR is most revealing combined with his secondary progressions for 2022. I will post his 2022 SSR later for our comments, and anybody else who would like to comment with their opinions/sight.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Mon May 15, 2017 2:33 pm

Okay, thank you, but may I ask what the significance is?

I'm familiar with the SSR, and I'm familiar with Secondary Progressions. But what's the significance of a Progressed chart during my Solar Return? I haven't seen that yet. That's a thing too? Or does it just mean that my 2020 birthday is going to be particularly sucky?

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Mon May 15, 2017 3:27 pm

Whenever I see a secondary progressed chart lit-up with angular hits like your 2022 progressed chart, I always want to look at the SSR for that year to see if I see any same symbolism is in the progressed chart. Below is your 2022 SSR. This SSR foretells an 'outstanding incident' per Jim's SSR teachings. Saturn is partile cnj WP partile 90 Uranus, 'outstanding incident' is wrapped-up with Saturn-Uranus symbolism. WP speaks for 7th House symbolism, so, we see a double whammy of Saturn with p. WP in progressed chart, and Saturn WP with SSR. Note the partile cnj of Sun-Venus tight 90 Pluto, and SSR Pluto is tight cnj your natal IC, which means you will be receiving partile and exact hits of t. Pluto to your natal IC partile 90 your angular natal Sun. Transiting Pluto will be partile 90 SSR Venus-Sun for most of your solar year, thus, we see a strong Venus-Pluto symbolism since SSR Venus is partile cnj Sun. The progressed 2022 chart foretells strong psychological impulses with angular Sun/Saturn/EP/WP partile 90 Natal Venus.

Lance, I believe you said in a PM, you had never worked with the auxiliary angles of the EP/WP. If so, you can now see how the EP/WP angles work in charts. I hope I have helped in your learning curve with certain core principles for Sidereal Astrology. Yes, I would say your 2022 solar year will be 'particularly sucky', but your SSR Jupiter tight cnj natal Moon, which is locked in for entire solar year, so maybe not as sucky as the angular SSR Saturn symbolism is indicating. :)

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Tue May 16, 2017 6:54 am

Steve, forgive me, but I need to clarify for myself what you're doing.

The angles on a Progressed chart make a full 360° rotation during the course of the year, correct? So that would mean the fact that this Progressed chart has the oh-so-sucky angles on my birthday is just coincidental. Right?

I mean, yes, the period around my birthday seems like it will be very challenging, and yes, my SSR for that year seems totally not fun. But I am not aware of any technique that makes predictions for the coming year from the Progressed chart drawn for the date of the Solar Return. Is that what you're doing?

Bottom line: SSR is bad, and the bad may be timed right around my birthday. Right?
Last edited by Lance on Tue May 16, 2017 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Tue May 16, 2017 7:02 am

In related news. I spent the evening with the strong sense that my life may not be the same in the future - that I may end up alone again, as I was for so long before all this flurry of femininity in my life. I was never good at being alone. I mean... I could never be at peace with it. It always felt as if something was wrong. It made me want to kiss the wife longer and sit closer with my oldest girl.

The study of astrology so far seems really detrimental to my fantasy of life continuously becoming more pleasurable and prosperous.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 16, 2017 7:12 am

Life continuously changes. Without addressing your exact premonition (for which I haven't studied your chart thoroughly enough), I want to mention again what I think is the larger issue: Your current Uranus transits.

There is no question - no doubt! - that who you are now is different from who you will be next year, or in five years, or at any other point in the future. This is true in general, and especially true right now because of your multiple Uranus transits, especially the opposition to your Sun.

Remember:
1. Change is inevitable - we either take it in small doses over time (if we are open to change) or in large doses all at once (if we resist change until it becomes irresistible).
2. How you view/experience life now does not necessarily bear much relationship to how the person you will be in (say) five years views/experiences life, and you probably have to way of knowing what that will be. (You can't see the new perspective on the world until you are standing in the new lookout point).
3. The main point of all of this is to evolve you. Life will drive you toward certain internal change. You can makes these voluntarily on a purely psychological fashion, or events can "corner" you into making a new choice or adopting a new way of looking/thinking. I think the key to a happier life is to hear the universe when it whispers so that it doesn't have to eventually scream at you.

Right now, life should be exciting - opening new possibilities - exposing you to new realizations - most things looking so new that you think you haven't seen them before. Your biggest foe in this is the habit of looking at things the way you always have in the past, and wanting things to stay the same.
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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Tue May 16, 2017 8:02 am

Lance wrote and asked:
The angles on a Progressed chart make a full 360° rotation during the course of the year, correct?
For a daily quotidian chart, basically yes, 360 degrees rotation for the angles in a year. But the progressed chart I posted is the standard SA in Long Secondary Progressions, which are for seeing the timing of important life events. The angles for this progressed chart progress app. 1 degree per year, not one degree per day. You asked about the long-term p. Saturn partile 90 your Natal Venus, and I wanted to offer my opinions when this long term partile 90 progression may manifest as a life event ('outstanding incident'). As Jim pointed out, this long-term progression of p. Saturn 90 your Natal Venus, will be psychologically/emotionally stirring in your conscious as long as it is partile.
Lance wrote:
But I am not aware of any technique that makes predictions for the coming year from the Progressed chart drawn for the date of the Solar Return. Is that what you're doing?
Yes, this is what I am doing. I am looking into the future to see when there will be high % when your long-term p. Saturn partile 90 your Natal Venus could manifest as a Venus-Saturn life event ('outstanding incident'). For major life events/incidents, we need to see tight angular activity with the angles of our charts, and with the Progressed Chart I posted, I see a-lot of partile conjunctions to the p. angles, with partile aspects to other planets. Then to offer me additional timing information to collaborate this 'outstanding incident' angular Progressed Chart, I turn to the SSRs for possible collaboration. Your 2022 SSR indicates high % you will experience some type Saturn-West Point (angle)-- close relationship incident during your 2022 SSR. What type of event? I don’t exactly know. We do not experience many planetary partile hits to our progressed angles in a life time with the 1 degree per year movement of our p. angles. When they happen involving partile aspects to planets, they time ‘outstanding incidents’ in our life.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Tue May 16, 2017 8:10 am

Jim: Thanks for the refocusing heads-up. I hear you. One of them is exact tomorrow.

Steve: Thank you for the in depth analysis of my Saturn/Venus life stuff. Sincerely.
Last edited by Lance on Tue May 16, 2017 8:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Tue May 16, 2017 8:14 am

You are welcome Lance. Lots of core Sidereal Astrology in what I presented, and we truly learn Sidereal Astrology through our personal charts.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Fri May 19, 2017 11:17 am

So transiting Uranus was recently square my natal Midheaven.

Both the 17th, when it was exact, and the 18th, I really felt anxious and frustrated, particularly as Uranus was on the angles. It was like a high-frequency energy in my body that had no way to escape.

Last night, the night of the 18th and early morning of the 19th, I couldn't sleep. I had to take some Benadryl and use a mental trick to try to "ground" myself. I finally got to sleep around 2 AM.

Today, the 19th, it feels as if it has passed. There were no energy/anxiety spikes.

It seemed strongest the day after transiting Uranus was exactly square my Midheaven.

It made me think about how Summer gets hot *after* the actual longest day of the year. It's no longer the peak of the exposure, but it's still strong, and the effect is cumulative.

It worries me because Uranus is not far from transiting opposite my natal Sun for about a total of 4 and a half months - passing, stopping, and then retrograding back over again without ever leaving a one degree orb.

How might you prepare? Take two pills again instead of one? lol. ...maybe.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri May 19, 2017 11:19 am

I find transits are operative in a broad, background way (showing the whole time of the particular transition you're going through) from the first time they enter partile until the last time they exit partile - even if they aren't partile for long gaps in between.
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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Fri May 19, 2017 12:26 pm

I don't at all disagree. I do tend to notice the energetic spikes though. I've been learning when I have to watch my mood and my mouth - not that I've been completely successful, but it helps.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Fri May 19, 2017 12:45 pm

Lance wrote:
How might you prepare? Take two pills again instead of one? lol. ...maybe.
Yes, take two. Last night was a high anxiety night for me, and I took two Klopin (great for anxiety) instead of the normal one when I need to relax for sleep,--- slept like a baby for 6 hours vs my normal 3. :)

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Fri May 19, 2017 1:18 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 11:19 am
I find transits are operative in a broad, background way (showing the whole time of the particular transition you're going through) from the first time they enter partile until the last time they exit partile - even if they aren't partile for long gaps in between.
Wait. That just registered.

You're saying pull out the big chart because tUranus opposite nSun doesn't end really until early 2019.

And tUranus square nMidheaven until early 2018.

Hm. Mkay.

So the times, they are a changin'.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by SteveS » Fri May 19, 2017 1:44 pm

Lance wrote:
So the times, they are a changin'.
A couple of weeks ago, a former business colleague asked me to look at her SSR. I asked her was times a 'changin'. She has worked in the State Department for years, and said Tillerson called a meeting and said after his staff reviewed mandatory questionnaires, a determination would be made for 300 out of 1000 employees to be placed around his immediate staff, said there would be major changes in the Department. Her 2017 SSR:

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Lance » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:22 am

The tUranus partile opposite nSun started 5/27.

Unusual Events: My car air-conditioner gave up.

Usual Event's More Annoying That Usual: Getting caught in traffic behind slow drivers.

Mood: I feel held back in life, especially in terms of vocation. It's not like a Saturnian limited feeling. That feels more like a lead-filled blanket. This is more like pressure building against the limitation. It's a growing sense of frustration with what currently is.

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Re: Lance: Chart Discussion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:29 am

Thanks! Sounds quite on target! I'd say it's "need for more freedom, more room, more..." etc.
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