2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

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Bob Oz
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2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Bob Oz » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:02 am

Birth Data
September 26, 1961 10:38am Milwaukee, WI

The Upcoming Pluto Saturn Jupiter conjunction coincides with the second Solar return.
Native also born during the day of Saturn direct station

Being forewarned to prior Saturn transits, native has strategized to appease the stern one...
As a result, Saturn has almost always been kind to the native (except when crossing the Ascendant)

Any comments are appreciated

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:13 am

You're on the right track, indeed, Bob. A lot of the problems people have experiencing difference transits is that they resist what's going on and it's the struggle that is hard. One could argue, in fact, that the main reason Saturn transits are often so rough is that Saturn is inherently resistant - that people are already expressing the transit by fighting it.

So I think you're on to something.

This is just the warm-up stage, though. I think we do feel the close of the Saturn cycle ahead of the actual transit, but the actual transit is still in your future. You get a single-pass Saturn Return January 23, 2020 and it's only in a 1° orb January 14-31 - a very concentrated period. Unless it falls close to an angle of a solar or lunar return, you won't really begin feeling it until after the new year begins.

Are you still living in Milwaukee? We could take a look at your next Solar Return to see how it lands.
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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by SteveS » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:44 am

Bob wrote:
As a result, Saturn has almost always been kind to the native (except when crossing the Ascendant)
The most restricted and inhibited time in my 71 years of life was a Station t. Saturn on my natal Ascendant in July of 1985. This kick-started a two year period which were the most stressful times in my entire life. Many times I wanted to walk away from this very stressful two-year environment, but somehow I made it to the end of this hell period and was greatly rewarded with a fulfillment of my life dream. This taught me a most valuable life lesson: "No Pain-No Gain!

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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Bob Oz » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:48 am

Native spends the summers in Milwaukee, but September through May in Clearwater, Florida

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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:59 am

Bob Oz wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:48 am
Native spends the summers in Milwaukee, but September through May in Clearwater, Florida
So we can expect your September 27 birthday to occur in Clearwater, yes?

Your current Sidereal Solar Return has Uranus conjunct your Moon on Midheaven and a mix of Venus and Mars contacts. Venus, conjunct Neptune, squares the SSR Ascendant. Overall, it's been leaning quite positively.

Your next SSR has Uranus angular also, even closer to your Moon. This is great for new things, excitement, explorations - perhaps travel or other things that expose you to new stimuli and require you to adapt to shifting conditions. Moon opposes Neptune and squares Jupiter, which draws your psychological energies more toward faith (processes having nothing to do with reason), possibly gambling, surely entertainment.

The important news, though, is that your next SSR does not have Saturn closely on an angle. It will, however, transit Solar Return angles later in the year. Be particularly careful with the Mars-Saturn conjunction at 6° Capricorn (square SSR Asc) around April 1. Saturn's exact square to SSR Asc is later in April - she is stationary on your SSR angle, then backs away for the rest of the year.
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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Venus_Daily » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:01 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:13 am
You're on the right track, indeed, Bob. A lot of the problems people have experiencing difference transits is that they resist what's going on and it's the struggle that is hard. One could argue, in fact, that the main reason Saturn transits are often so rough is that Saturn is inherently resistant - that people are already expressing the transit by fighting it.
Are you still living in Milwaukee? We could take a look at your next Solar Return to see how it lands.
Really neat thread. I've been trying to be really introspective understand my role in the Saturn transits, but for the life of me I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, which makes them hit so hard for me. Before they happen, I panic in advance, then I forget about them.....and bam. I have three very nasty Demi-SSRs with a lot of angular Saturn action, Saturn/Uranus, or moon conjunct natal Saturn. Also, Uranus will soon be Conjunct my natal Saturn.
I just don't understand it, what more is there to resist when you have almost nothing left to lose.

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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:37 pm

Tough question, Venus, and perhaps we should keep it going.

It's not easy top answer as a generic. In general, "what you resist, persists" - a general guide to navigating life - and Saturn is a bitch because one of the first things she does is set us up to resist. One might almost suspect that the whole of material reality is the consequence of resisting Saturn's message.

Saturn lately has been conjoining your Moon., That's a big one, it has such a far reach, it's often a difficult transit. I think (since you asked) that the key function is that one has to willingly accept what is happening - not endure it, not survive it, but actively choose what is happening in one's life.

Under Saturn to Moon, typically practical matters do better than emotional ones. You become somber, distant, cautious; separated from nurturing, your pride wounded, experiencing loss, feeling misunderstood, security needs increased, and others tend to seem unsympathetic. Is this what's going on?

Or: What's going on?
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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Venus_Daily » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:45 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:37 pm
Tough question, Venus, and perhaps we should keep it going.

It's not easy top answer as a generic. In general, "what you resist, persists" - a general guide to navigating life - and Saturn is a bitch because one of the first things she does is set us up to resist. One might almost suspect that the whole of material reality is the consequence of resisting Saturn's message.

Saturn lately has been conjoining your Moon., That's a big one, it has such a far reach, it's often a difficult transit. I think (since you asked) that the key function is that one has to willingly accept what is happening - not endure it, not survive it, but actively choose what is happening in one's life.

Under Saturn to Moon, typically practical matters do better than emotional ones. You become somber, distant, cautious; separated from nurturing, your pride wounded, experiencing loss, feeling misunderstood, security needs increased, and others tend to seem unsympathetic. Is this what's going on?

Or: What's going on?
Thanks for asking, Jim.

Lately, my concerns have been financial and social. I'm worried about how I'm going to pay for my vehicle and attend full-time nursing school at the same time. I also had an episode back in May when my maintenance man made very uncomfortable romantic overtures toward me. I don't share this a lot, but I am still technically a virgin even though I was molested as child. Anyway, I discussed this with the person who manages my place on Tuesday, and I was verbally attacked and branded as a liar and a "whore". Anyway, this situation has made a bunch of uncomfortable feelings come to the surface, and now, I feel afraid of everything.

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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:11 am

I think you are quite right to link some of this (especially the intensity) to events in your past. This came up this week with transiting Sun square your natal Saturn (and Venus to follow today or tomorrow). Sun to Saturn happens four times a year but, nonetheless, does tend to produce situations where our buried "skeletons" come out of their closets and rattle their bones more loudly in our ears.

The longer-term Saturn circumstances you described are tough, and we all go through struggles at different times in life. My first impression is that the early experiences are still "owning" a lot of your psychological energies and this magnifies how strongly you feel adverse events in the present.
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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Veronica » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:24 am

Venus asked
"I just don't understand it, what more is there to resist when you have almost nothing left to lose"

For me,
Its like peeling an onion. So many layers.....
There is always soooooo many layers before you get to the heart of it....and in my onion peeling expierence those first layers are the nastiest...they sting, make you cry, and dont taste very good.

Saturn on my Venus for me this year started out very material, making me examine the physical reality of the cumulative expression of Venus in my life, my possessions, my tastes, my affections and relationships and with Pluto near by it was like a complete overhaul in my physical world of the things I had been attracted to and accumulated.

I thought that all that stuff was consciously choosen or created by me and my work but as I examined each thing I had and felt attracted to it became painfully obvious that most all of my material world that had accumulated around me was actually the result of subconscious programming that I (we) have running our lives 95% of the time , rote.

It feels for me in my case anyway that Saturn awkens us to the fact that we are inherently creative by nature, but because we learn by our environmental influences and in a very real way, get programed as youths to the behaviors in our environment and other response to that, we have tons of garbage programing running our show that sabatoge us to truely being creative and consciously. Living our lives as we will.

Saturn digs deep into our subconscious garbage to see bad programing and gifts us with the creative power to overwrite it.

Which is what Jim said in less words I think.

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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Venus_Daily » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:09 am

Veronica wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:24 am
Venus asked
"I just don't understand it, what more is there to resist when you have almost nothing left to lose"

For me,
Its like peeling an onion. So many layers.....
There is always soooooo many layers before you get to the heart of it....and in my onion peeling expierence those first layers are the nastiest...they sting, make you cry, and dont taste very good.

Saturn on my Venus for me this year started out very material, making me examine the physical reality of the cumulative expression of Venus in my life, my possessions, my tastes, my affections and relationships and with Pluto near by it was like a complete overhaul in my physical world of the things I had been attracted to and accumulated.

I thought that all that stuff was consciously choosen or created by me and my work but as I examined each thing I had and felt attracted to it became painfully obvious that most all of my material world that had accumulated around me was actually the result of subconscious programming that I (we) have running our lives 95% of the time , rote.

It feels for me in my case anyway that Saturn awkens us to the fact that we are inherently creative by nature, but because we learn by our environmental influences and in a very real way, get programed as youths to the behaviors in our environment and other response to that, we have tons of garbage programing running our show that sabatoge us to truely being creative and consciously. Living our lives as we will.

Saturn digs deep into our subconscious garbage to see bad programing and gifts us with the creative power to overwrite it.

Which is what Jim said in less words I think.
Thanks for that analysis, Veronica. Apologies for taking so long to reply.
Instead of creative do you mean resourceful? I've often read that Saturn brings out the resourcefulness in people. If what you say is true, I must have lots of built of baggage that is keeping me from becoming more self-aware about my own lessons in life.

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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Veronica » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:21 am

Saturn does incline resourcefulness.
I see humans and life in general as being creative by nature.
Being creative is using the resources availible.
Saturn gets you touch with what your natural resources are.
In my expierence Saturn has show me how my being has digested all the thoughts feelings actions and "things" in my environment and provides me with the raw materials for me to create with.
The good helpful and positive things have allowed me to grow in very nice ways and the things that were not so good for me.....have taken away from my ability to grow and flourish. Saturn helps sort those things out and can show you what is holding you back.
But thats were the resistance and stubbornness to old outdated patterns rears its ugly head and makes you hold tight to the proverbial security blanket of the known.

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Re: 2nd Saturn Return with a BANG

Post by Bob Oz » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:39 am

Venus_Daily wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:01 pm
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:13 am
You're on the right track, indeed, Bob. A lot of the problems people have experiencing difference transits is that they resist what's going on and it's the struggle that is hard. One could argue, in fact, that the main reason Saturn transits are often so rough is that Saturn is inherently resistant - that people are already expressing the transit by fighting it.
Are you still living in Milwaukee? We could take a look at your next Solar Return to see how it lands.


I'll be in Clearwater, Fl for my Solar Return and Saturn return..

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