Mars & the Satan Archetype??

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Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by By Jove » Wed May 10, 2017 9:49 pm

by By Jove on Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:15 am
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I often wondered if there was a correlation between the influence of Mars and depictions of Satan or Satanic archetypes. Among them is pride, rebellion, and egotism, such as what caused Satan to wage his war on heaven. Another theme is exile. The Greeks had a goddess, Ate, who was their closest equivalent to Lucifer. She was banished from Olympus by Zeus for tricking him. In Greek tragedy, she was the one held responsible for causing the tragic hero to make the fatal mistake leading to his downfall.

She was part of the cycle of nemesis, which came in three steps: Ate (ruin), Nemesis (divine wrath), Dike (justice). In Rome her name was Error, which today refers to a fatal mistake one makes or a fatal flaw in their character. Another theme in Mars is fire, metalwork, masonry, sulfur, acid, volcanoes, which is often used to describe Hell itself.

Now allow me to examine the natal charts of the most famous and iconic people, who we collectively associate with the Satanic archetype. It is not a complete list, but some notes on certain people that particularly drew my attention.

Ambrose Bierce (Mars partile conjunct Sun, Moon in Capricorn), writer of the Devil's Dictionary.
Tim Currey (Mars foreground in ASC, Sun in Aries, Moon in Scorpio), most famous for villainous roles. The biggest mention here is his portrayal as Darkness (Satan in all but name).
Anton LaVey (Mars loosely foreground in ASC, trine Pluto), the founder of Satanism.
Aleister Crowley (Mars square Sun), occultist of black magic, universally associated with evil.
Dante Alighieri (Moon in Scorpio), writer of the Divine Comedy. Most people especially remember him for writing the iconic Inferno.

A lot of authors, famous for writing about Satan or Satanic archetypes, were Scorpio Suns. What makes them special is how many of them helped forge the modern Satanic archetype today.

John Milton (Mars partile square Sun, Sun and ASC in Scorpio), writer of Paradise Lost. Paradise Lost is unique for being one of the first works to write from Satan's perspective, making him almost into a tragic hero. It is interesting that Satan sounds a lot like a revolutionary in the poem, something Milton actually was.

Mark Twain (Mars conjunct Sun, Sun, Mars, Venus in Scorpio), wrote The Mysterious Stranger, and Letters From The Earth. Both feature Satan as a protagonist or character whose point of few we are really exposed to.

C.S. Lewis (Mars partile trine Sun, Sun, Venus, Saturn, Uranus in Scorpio), wrote the Screwtape Letters and the Great Divorce. Lewis shows a pretty deep knowledge of how evil actually works, which goes beyond the Christian setting of the book.

William Blake (Sun, Mercury, Jupiter, Pluto in Scorpio), wrote Marriage of Heaven and Hell, and had radical political and religious views. Marriage breaks down the Christian dichotomy of good/heaven, evil/hell. I will elaborate later in my conclusions.

Here are people who aren't necessarily associated with Satan specifically but make honorable mentions.

Nietzsche (Mars foreground in MC, Moon foreground in ASC in Scorpio), broke down the dichotomy of good and evil, is one of Christianity's biggest opponents.
Spinoza (Mars foreground in MC, Sun, Venus, Saturn in Scorpio, Moon, Jupiter in Aries), divorced the concept of God from religious sects. In his life he was labeled an atheist and his work thought to have been forged in Hell.
Marquis de Sade (strong Venus and Mars, Mars in Aries), wrote very atheistic and sexually explicit works. Obtained a very villainized reputation in his lifetime.
Jim Morrison (Mars opposite Sun, Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Aries), was considered the avatar of Satan and evil by conservatives when he was alive.
Stephen King (Mars foreground in ASC, Moon in Scorpio), often writes about demonic and horrifying entities in his books.
Adolf Hitler (Mars foreground in DSC, Sun in Aries), not associated with Satan per se, but in the West he is the iconic symbol of evil in politics, even though there have existed worse dictators than he.

Conclusion (sort of):
It seems that iconic people or portrayed Satan or are associated with Satan have the following:
foreground Mars
Mars with a strong aspect with a luminary
luminaries in signs that have a Mars rulership (Aries, Scorpio, Capricorn)

I would like to make a big DISCLAIMER. Satan =/= evil or bad. Satan or the Satanic is universal in all cultures and has both positive and negative aspects. Christianity took pagan gods and images, as well as character traits (like pride, egoism, independence) to demonize them. Blake and Nietzsche show and revere the most positive forms of Satan and the Satanic archetype.

William Blake, in Marriage of Heaven and Hell, portrays Hell positively. It's not a place of evil and suffering, but a place of energy, creativity, strife, freedom, the physical world, Dionysus, sensuality. Blake subverts the dichotomy go good vs. evil. He depolarizes and unifies the cosmos, where both creation/destruction and preservation are necessary in all people.

Nietzsche criticizes Christianity for demonizing master morality (noble, strong, powerful, open-mindedness, courage, truthfulness, trust, value-creating). Servility, resentment, pessimism, humility, charity, and pity took their place. Master morality was demonized as 'godless', 'evil', 'violent', 'sensual', 'proud' etc.
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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by By Jove » Wed May 10, 2017 9:50 pm

by jamescondor on Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:04 pm
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Ha..Little Nicky with Adam Sandler- it Rodney Dangerfield who played the devil Lucifer. Right on dude he was born November 22. Good eye.
I did hesitate at first to judge and intrude this post because I would suggest analyzing yourself and others then communicating your research for the benefit of sid astrology. Share more of your experiences with us please. And reply to my answer to your question under 'Sun and Moon', if you have a reply.

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by By Jove » Wed May 10, 2017 9:51 pm

by By Jove on Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:29 pm
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Speaking of which, there is also Joost van den Vondel. He wrote a play called Lucifer before Milton wrote Paradise Lost, and was one of Milton's source materials as other artists before Milton wrote "fanfiction" of the Devil rebelling against God.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joost_van_den_Vondel

Vondel was born on 17 November, 1587 in Cologne, then Holy Roman Empire.
Like Milton, Vondel is a Scorpio Sun.
His Moon is either in Taurus or Gemini depending on the hour of his birth.
So unfortunately we can't find any foreground planets.

We can do aspects though.
Mars (in Sag) trines Saturn (fall in Aries)
Sun and Mercury (in Scorpio) quincunx Moon (in exalted Taurus or Gemini)?
Moon (in exalted Taurus or Gemini) sextile Jupiter (exalted in Cancer)
Sun (in Scorpio) trine Neptune (in Cancer)

Conclusion: with Vondel we do see some of the same traits as in other people. He has a luminary in a Mars-ruled sign (Scorpio), and important aspects pertaining to Mars, Saturn, and Neptune.

We also have Zeena La Vey, daughter of the infamous Anton La Vey. And recently people have pointed out the young Zeena's close resemblance to Taylor Swift. This detail is quirky and may be trivial. I must mention that Taylor Swift is a bit of a Devil's archetype herself. She looks like the innocent country girl next door but at heart she is more like a dark seductress. She has proven herself to be jealous, vengeful, and manipulative in her spat with Katy Perry (a sweet, light feminine archetype), and she uses the number 13 everywhere in her work, known as the Devil's dozen, an ominous but occasionally good symbol since antiquity. Zeena and Taylor embody my friend H***'s (Scorpio Moon, Mars partile square Sun) favorite phrase, "Look like an angel, act like the Devil."

Zeena was born on 19 November, 1963 in San Francisco, CA.
She has Sun, Mercury, Venus, and Mars in Scorpio. A Scorpio stellium with Mars in its ruling sign.
She has Moon in Sag.

Saturn (ruling in Capricorn) is in the foreground as Cap is on the ASC.
Sun (in Scorpio) is in the foreground as Scorpio (along with the Scorpio stellium) is on the MC.

Mars (ruling in Scorpio) conjuncts Venus (detriment in Scorpio).
Mars (ruling in Scorpio) squares Pluto (in Leo).
Saturn (ruling in Capricorn) sextiles Mars (ruling in Scorpio).
Moon (in Sag) trines Ouranos (in Leo).
Jupiter (ruling in Pisces) trines Venus (detriment in Scorpio).
Jupiter (ruling in Pisces) squares Moon (in Sag).

And Taylor for good measure,
Taylor was born on 13 December, 1989 in Wyomissing, Pennsylvania.

She has Sun and Mars in Scorpio, Mars in its ruling sign.
She has Moon and Jupiter in Gemini, Jupiter in detriment.
She has a Sag stellium (Ouranos, Mercury, Neptune, Saturn)

Pluto (in Libra) could be considered a foreground planet, but weakly so.
Dragon's Head (North Node) (in Capricorn) is hard on the DSC, if that means anything.

Moon (in Gemini) trines Pluto (in Libra)
Moon (in Gemini) conjuncts Jupiter (detriment in Gemini)
Moon (in Gemini) opposes Neptune, Saturn, and Mercury (all in Sag)
Mars (ruling in Scorpio) sextiles Venus (in Capricorn)
Pluto (in Libra) squares Venus (in Capricorn)

Conclusion:
Zeena and Taylor show similar "Satanic" traits, especially Zeena. Zeena has Sun, Mars, and a stellium in a Mars ruled sign (Scorpio). She has Saturn in a ruling sign (Capricorn) and on the ASC. She also has prominent aspects with Mars, Pluto, and Saturn, three of the "Satanic" planets. She has no aspects with the Sun.

Taylor also has some merit as a "Satan" archetype. She has Sun and Mars in a Mars ruled sign (Scorpio). She has prominent Moon aspects with Saturn, Neptune, and Pluto. It's also worth noting her Moon is in Gemini, and a lot of aspects are related to Gemini, as Gemini is an anti-authoritarian sign (in contrast to Sag's pomp and circumstance). Like Zeena, she has no aspects with the Sun but has many aspects with the Moon.
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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by By Jove » Wed May 10, 2017 9:51 pm

by Jim Eshelman on Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:04 pm
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On van den Vondel, a couple of aspects need more attention. First, at noon on his birthday the Venus-Jupiter square was 0°00' wide - meaning, it was exceptionally close no matter when he was born. Also, don't miss his exact Sun-Pluto sesquisquare, which is probably the most important luminary aspect in his chart.

From reading some general literature on him, I don't get a clear picture of whether the Taurus or Gemini Moon fits better. Most of the things that tip me toward Taurus could also be Scorpio, not the least of which is his substantial standing as one of the greatest play authors in Dutch history with powerful Biblical and other philosophical themes. This is Hub stuff, but the Scorpio Sun could take care of it alone.

His conversion to Cathoilicism in a Calvinist country also wants to tip me toward Taurus - that magnitude of resistance wouldn't have been likely without a strong religious demeanor in the first place, which is more consistent with Taurus than Gemini (or the Gemini would more likely be Calvinist). Yet, this could also just be the basic radical, the Scorpio Sun exactly aspecting Pluto. (But if there weren't a religious theme in him, why make his rebellion along religious lines?)

Moon entered Gemini at 1:24 PM. The center of the time Moon was in Taurus on his birthday was, thus, 6:42 AM (which is roughly the center of the time Moon sextiled Jupiter exactly). This crude central time estimate also makes the Sun-Pluto 0°00'.

He died February 5, 1679, at quite an advanced age for the time (apparently in Amsterdam, but I'm not sure). Pluto squared his natal Pluto (6'), which means it was also sesquisquare his natal Sun. Neptune squared his Venus and opposed his Jupiter. Saturn was at 27° and may have conjoined his natal Moon. Progressed Moon doesn't seem to have anything going on, unless it was sextile his Jupiter. I think the odds are that he was born not all that far from sunrise (though this is still quite a speculation).

I don't know what he died of, except that it was some variation of old age and "wearing out." If he were born around 6:00 AM, his final lunar return would have had a Mars-Neptune opposition across the horizon and a background near-partile Moon-Saturn conjunction. His SNQ would have transiting Saturn partile conjunct his natal Moon exactly on Ascendant if the birth time were 5:54 AM.

It's a guess... though an informed guess. Don't take it as solid... but you might want to look at a trial horoscope for him of 5:54 AM LMT.

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by ScarletDepths » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:22 pm

I have an almost exalted Mars (one degree off) in Capricorn, in the tightest aspect in my chart, also aspects my Sun and A.C. ruler, and is 10 degrees (approx.) from the anti-vertex.

I mostly see thus archetype specificly in Mars in Capricorn:
The goat imagery is enough to say yes to your question, looking at Mars in Capricorn as the most powerful place. Both the Devil and Capricorn are misunderstood and dark, Mars is too misunderstood, many believe that the devil is the root of their problems, however God made Lucifer the ruler of hell, he has a job, to punish evil. We as humans need to put our big boy and girl pants on and start acknowledging our own probelms.

Instead we blame them on the Scapegoat (literally in the case if Capricorn, they are often the sign blamed for being non-believers in astrology, they are said to be ruthless and calculating (and they like math :evil: ), so calling them Satan makes sense in these some of these traits.

However more accurately Mars in Capricorn specficly is someone who is naturally mistrusting (why would the almighty good trait humans better than his angles, aren't they to be equal?). There good at business because they can be ruthless on the surface and actually have enough care to make and teach something to thrive. I believe the Devil has a conscious he just hides the weight of his mistakes through a false mask of mental issues.

I get made out to be a monster often, and used as a punching bag. I question everything and people see me as a badass because if the way I dress and my notion to burn things down (this may be Mars or Pluto most likely both), however the amount of "unresloved" shadow and the mobile closet full of skeletons is what puts Mars in Capricorn on edge, any prominent Capricorn energy could have this. However it's Mars the physical action that causes so much weight (the conscious is guilty because of actions you did with your body.).

At the end of the day we are fine with being Satan because we have made so many mistakes that we call it karma. Also we believe in tough love and are fine being the monster if it's actually going to help in the long run.

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:20 am

funny, I own every one of those books and media you mentioned, and boy my heart went a little pitter patter when you mentioned my sweetheart Taylor!

The universe recently linned up a great new book for me. when I was working at Goodwill processing book donations I came across a book, which was written by a very accomplished local University educator who had passed away and we were recieving some of her stuff.
This is the only book in my life that I have not been able to finish. I read it voraciously to the half way point and then my dreams got way out of hand and I had to stop. I try to pick it up but I cant right now. The title is misleading. _The Flight of The Sepaphs by Collen Clements_. I think some of you may enjoy it.

my chart indicates a high correlation of satanic, occult, psychic and mysteries with all that going on in Scorpio, but I am blessed as an Aquarian in that my mind is able to take all of that with an air of though and keep the devils away.

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:44 am

I'm drawn to the occult with only Venus, Mercury, Pluto, and Chiron in Scorpio. I have Uranus,Neptune, dragons head and Mars in Capricorn. Mars Venus and Mars Mercury aspects, Pluto Moon aspect.

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:20 am

Scorpio placements of planets does not mean "drawn to the occult."
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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:24 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:20 am
Scorpio placements of planets does not mean "drawn to the occult."
Thank you for that important distinction.
It is sometimes very hard to coin the right term for ideas and concepts, and subtle word choice makes a world of difference.
"Drawn to the occult" comes off like I am being pulled by forces greater then me,
when I think it is safer to say that my placements draw things to me,
or make me receptive to understanding things deeper.
which I actually would attribute more to my rising signs playful childlike wonder of the world, and my aquarian sun.

my mars in scorpio is hard to express verbally
it is sextile between mercury above and Uranus below

I am not sure if it is this combination that gives me a much different view of Satan then most.

I am almost more inclined to think that in my chart my pluto aspect seems to feed into my Neptune/Jupiter/moon in scorpio.

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:47 am

The main thing I meant to communicate wasn't about "drawn to" but about occultism. It's a Tropical fantasy that Scorpio has something to do with occultism. There is a thread of liking the dark and threatening perhaps, and of maybe some wanting to spit in society's face with stuff that will {nass} people off, so a lot of time occult topics are picked, especially in "Bible belt" regions where people are such easy targets.

Yes, I'd attribute your draw to occultism to your Aquarius Sun, and a different side (more mystical than occult) to your Neptune-luminary aspects.
Veronica wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:24 am
my mars in scorpio is hard to express verbally
How does this work:

Determined, hardworking, strong desire to succeed, hard to intimidate. Sharp humor, willing to be outlandish. Loves to party. Most prefer some "bad boy/girl" in their character, feel it their moral duty to misbehave on schedule, and stay "a little rough around the edges." Most of the women are high-demand sexual locomotives.
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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:29 am

Would my attraction to the occult then be do to Uranus near the anti-vertex in Capricorn Jim?

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:59 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:29 am
Would my attraction to the occult then be do to Uranus near the anti-vertex in Capricorn Jim?
I'm not sure that's a very strong factor. I think we need to get really clear about what you mean by "occultism."

There's nothing in your chart to which I would attribute occultism per se. However, there are some related things to mention that might add up to such an interest in practice.

1. Mars in Capricorn is going to be drawn to dark images, especially devil-and-darkness themes (e.g., more "Black Arts" than other expressions).

2. Several things have what wouldbest be called a religious trend. Don't take that too formally, especially in terms of orthodox religion, but more in a "religious spirit" sort of way. Sagittarius Sun, of course, is the leader of this. You also have a tightly angular Jupiter and Moon-Jupiter sesquisquare. Jupiter is root of the religious urge in the human psyche, and some of these Jupiter expressions particularly are drawn to ritual formalism (just as Sagittarius and Leo are drawn to pageantry).

3. Moon-Pluto, of course, means that you're likely to take a partifcular interest in anything that would smack orthodoxy in the face or make you seem out of the crowd, atypical, tending to {nass} people off even.

4. Even though I've lost confidence in the Vertex being very important (or important at all) for a planet being conjunct it, over the last year we've uncovered and extremely strong factor in mundane astrology that probably applies to natal astrology also. Just to give it a name, I call it Prime Vertical Paran IPVP). It means that when a planet is on Vertex or Antivertex mundanely - i.e., tightly on the prime vertical itself, due east or west in azimuth - it forms a 90° relationship to a planet exactly on the horizon or meridian. Your Uranus is 0°18' before the Antivertex (north of prime vertical) in PV amplitude, and your Sun 1°10' before (below) Ascendant in altitude, making a 0°52' Sun-Uranus PVP square. If a valid natal aspect (it probably is, but we haven't done any work to attempt to authenticate it), this has some occult leaning, though most of it resembles the "shock the peons" affect similar to the Moon-Pluto.

Here's an interpretation for a Sun-Uranus square:
Go their own way, unapologetically following their own paths & persuaded that they’re a “special case.” Resourceful, stimulating, but easily bored (in need of frequent stimulation). Love of freedom: bow to no authority but themselves. Progressive, future-oriented, uninhibited by convention. Adept at creative problem solving. Self-perspective usually founded in objectivity.
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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:29 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:47 am
The main thing I meant to communicate wasn't about "drawn to" but about occultism. It's a Tropical fantasy that Scorpio has something to do with occultism. There is a thread of liking the dark and threatening perhaps, and of maybe some wanting to spit in society's face with stuff that will {nass} people off, so a lot of time occult topics are picked, especially in "Bible belt" regions where people are such easy targets.

Yes, I'd attribute your draw to occultism to your Aquarius Sun, and a different side (more mystical than occult) to your Neptune-luminary aspects.
Veronica wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:24 am
my mars in scorpio is hard to express verbally
How does this work:

Determined, hardworking, strong desire to succeed, hard to intimidate. Sharp humor, willing to be outlandish. Loves to party. Most prefer some "bad boy/girl" in their character, feel it their moral duty to misbehave on schedule, and stay "a little rough around the edges." Most of the women are high-demand sexual locomotives.
yea, that sums it up very well.
:)

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:22 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:59 am
ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:29 am
Would my attraction to the occult then be do to Uranus near the anti-vertex in Capricorn Jim?
I'm not sure that's a very strong factor. I think we need to get really clear about what you mean by "occultism."

There's nothing in your chart to which I would attribute occultism per se. However, there are some related things to mention that might add up to such an interest in practice.

1. Mars in Capricorn is going to be drawn to dark images, especially devil-and-darkness themes (e.g., more "Black Arts" than other expressions).

2. Several things have what wouldbest be called a religious trend. Don't take that too formally, especially in terms of orthodox religion, but more in a "religious spirit" sort of way. Sagittarius Sun, of course, is the leader of this. You also have a tightly angular Jupiter and Moon-Jupiter sesquisquare. Jupiter is root of the religious urge in the human psyche, and some of these Jupiter expressions particularly are drawn to ritual formalism (just as Sagittarius and Leo are drawn to pageantry).

3. Moon-Pluto, of course, means that you're likely to take a partifcular interest in anything that would smack orthodoxy in the face or make you seem out of the crowd, atypical, tending to {nass} people off even.

4. Even though I've lost confidence in the Vertex being very important (or important at all) for a planet being conjunct it, over the last year we've uncovered and extremely strong factor in mundane astrology that probably applies to natal astrology also. Just to give it a name, I call it Prime Vertical Paran IPVP). It means that when a planet is on Vertex or Antivertex mundanely - i.e., tightly on the prime vertical itself, due east or west in azimuth - it forms a 90° relationship to a planet exactly on the horizon or meridian. Your Uranus is 0°18' before the Antivertex (north of prime vertical) in PV amplitude, and your Sun 1°10' before (below) Ascendant in altitude, making a 0°52' Sun-Uranus PVP square. If a valid natal aspect (it probably is, but we haven't done any work to attempt to authenticate it), this has some occult leaning, though most of it resembles the "shock the peons" affect similar to the Moon-Pluto.

Here's an interpretation for a Sun-Uranus square:
Go their own way, unapologetically following their own paths & persuaded that they’re a “special case.” Resourceful, stimulating, but easily bored (in need of frequent stimulation). Love of freedom: bow to no authority but themselves. Progressive, future-oriented, uninhibited by convention. Adept at creative problem solving. Self-perspective usually founded in objectivity.
Thanks Jim. My occult things are actually very inter personal and inward. I don't draw tarot or Oracle cards or do astrology to freak people out (which I do with put even trying). I'd say I'm rebellious yes but your right in that it's hard to tell if it's moon Pluto or a Sun Uranus. Are there other moon Pluto people that I could look at got reference? This is off topic I apologize Jove.

Jim what percent would you say my Mars is functioning compared to my Sun? Also would you say Moon Pluto is similar to Moon Aries, I'm just curious? Also why would.Pluto and Mars color my personality so much? As in like the way I act and dress and my general aesthetic (I like the night, macabre things, burning things, etc.) However I'm not as attracted to or nearly as expressive as things Saggitarius or Leo in nature ( I don't do anything bright happy or neat, nothing formal etc.) I wear a lot if black and red, a lot of leather, boots all the time and clothing actually normally reflects my mood too.

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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:58 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:22 pm
Are there other moon Pluto people that I could look at got reference?
Going for who I have stored on the copy of Solar Fire I'm on, picking conjunctions, oppositions, and squares with close orbs:

Jim Morrison, Prince, J. Edgar Hoover, Amelia Earhart, Arsenio Hall, Barry Gibb, Bette Midler, Brian Eno, Catherine de Medici, King Charles II, Elton John, George Abell, Jane Russell, John Lennon, Meryl Streep, Gandhi, Pope Benedict XVI, Ringo Starr, Wolfgang Mozart, Lisa Marie Presley, Michel Jordan, Jennifer Aniston, Francisco Franco, Bette Page, Timothy McVeigh, Eva Braun, Maurice Chevalier, Melissa Etheridge, Stephen Foster, Ricky Martin, Alexander Scriabin, Neil Young, Karen Carpenter, Nina Simone, Woodrow Wilson, Martin Luther, George Washington, Gustave Eifel, Adele Davis, Havelock Ellis, Chester A. Arhur.
Jim what percent would you say my Mars is functioning compared to my Sun?
I don't know in which sense you mean this. Mars is normally significantly less expressive in terms of sign than Sun and, in your case, since Sun is closely foreground and Mars is not, general solar traits are going to be many times greater than martial traits. So, depending on the particular piece of solar expression you mean, I'd say Sun is somewhere between twice and ten times as expressive as Mars in your chart.
Also would you say Moon Pluto is similar to Moon Aries.
Not entirely. There will be overlap; but a lot of Aries comes with it being a Rim (Cardinal) constellation, part of the Sensation triplicity, has Sun exalted; these are is separate from a Pluto quality. But yes, there will be some overlap. You can compare these short paragraphs on the two and draw your own conclusion on the feel:
Moon-Pluto wrote:Bold & forthright, questioning & challenging, maverick & alien; independent, “marching to a different drummer,” resisting authority. Avoids habitual conformity (rebellious?); resists conventional conditioning and being made to concur with others’ values and codes. Restless, unwilling to be still for long, can uproot or take to the road on little notice. Deeply inquiring into existential mysteries, often igniting remarkable intuitive insights.
Moon in Aries wrote: Autonomous, independent, self-sufficient, competitive. Sentiment yields to practicality; cautious with intimacy. Sexually bold, passionate, pragmatic. Assertive (pushy), efficient, decisive, contrary, opinionated (adamant certainty). Respected, easily takes charge, leads. Business instincts, opportunistic.

Also why would Pluto and Mars color my personality so much?
Pluto is easy: It is in very close square to your Moon. Mars (and I wonder if you mean Mars' sign) is more complicated - your Sagittarius and Leo traits are stronger, but at this point in your life you are committed, for whatever reason, to not expressing them, so the next strongest sign (the only other strong one) is Mars in Capricorn.
As in like the way I act and dress and my general aesthetic (I like the night, macabre things, burning things, etc.)
My opinion (only my opinion, of course) is that's your Sagittarius actor coming out, That kind of superficial stuff is part of playing a role, creating an image (creating a brand!). It gets people associate you with the tribe you have picked for yourself.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

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ScarletDepths
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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:35 pm

Interesting theory on branding, but like I said earlier I don't outwardly express much these things. So calling them to be branding is weird. I guess you could say the sign Mars is in does apply to me. Example of not expressing is i dont tote around tarot cards or oracle cards with me, i keep my chaos magic and runes I draw on myself hidden. I can outwardly express things but it's more of an excited way as hey this is cool to learn about and less of hey this is me, I'm a Buddhist rebel vodoonist who practices magic. (I'm too skeptical to express much of these to begin with).

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Jupiter Sets at Dawn
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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:46 pm

First you say...
ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:22 pm
Also why would.Pluto and Mars color my personality so much? As in like the way I act and dress and my general aesthetic (I like the night, macabre things, burning things, etc.) However I'm not as attracted to or nearly as expressive as things Saggitarius or Leo in nature ( I don't do anything bright happy or neat, nothing formal etc.) I wear a lot if black and red, a lot of leather, boots all the time and clothing actually normally reflects my mood too.
Then you say...
ScarletDepths wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:35 pm
Interesting theory on branding, but like I said earlier I don't outwardly express much these things. So calling them to be branding is weird.
What the ever loving hell? Please stop saying something about yourself, and then when someone answers you, saying no you don't understand I'm the exact opposite of what I said I was. How you dress and your general aesthetic is how these things are expressed! If you have to talk about yourself all the time please try not to try so hard to prove other people can't understand you that you contradict yourself.

Whatever gave you the odd idea Sagittarius or especially Leo are bright and happy in nature, please root that idea out. Ever heard of blood sacrifice? Religion? Get it??

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ScarletDepths
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Re: Mars & the Satan Archetype??

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:08 pm

If you take all the people out of the world, and you still dress the same way, Is it branding? Yes I've heard of blood rites, this seems like a strech.

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