Retrogradation

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Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:33 pm

(Apr 7, 2012)

Retrogradation is, at best, a very minor factor. In most instances, I ignore it completely - 100% - and am certain I lose no relevant information.

Retrograde condition does, however, have a strong enough effect to show with weak significance in statistical examination. I crunched the numbers, over 30 years ago, for a study T. Patrick Davis undertook on the effects of retrograde and stationary conditions. It was no surprise to me at all that planetary stations show with a pleasingly strong statistical significance. I don't know where my file is on that, but my recollection is that results regularly surpassed the 5% (and occasionally 1%) threshold, the effect of the station being that it hyper-intensified a planet's nature. (Remember the "hot iron moving vs. sitting still on a blouse" analogy.)

What did surprise me was that retrogradation showed anything at all. The effects were weak - I don't think any of them much surpassed the 10% threshold. And the quality was (in grossly simple terms) a diminishment of the planet's effect. I suspect that there is a qualitative distinction, instead of a quantitative one like (say) the effect of a planet being background; but it was never strong enough for me to get a clear handle on it. As mentioned above, I'm not convinced it's worth any attention when I'm looking at an actual horoscope. (And I remain skeptical of the common metaphors astrologers have tried to make from the "going backwards" idea, though I admit to contributing my own effort by saying the planet acted kinda sorta like it was "whimpering home.")

That all refers to individual retrograde planets.

Of much greater interest, though, is the issue of how many planets are retrograde in a particular chart. John McCormick explored this - possibly the only astrologer to do so - in his 1975 work, The Book of Retrogrades. Anna-Kria King and I looked at his work enough to verify his research anecdotally, and she has kept it alive in her own work, reminding me occasionally of its value. The concept is pretty simple. (This is my summary, not McCormick's, but I think it's consistent with what he found.) Most people have 2 or 3 planets retrograde. (56% of all people have 2 or 3 planets retrograde. This increases to 75% of people if you count a single retrograde also: 1, 2, or 3.) The more one diverges from this number [which usually means, the more planets one has retrograde], the more "outside the odds" one is. That is, the more one seems "outside the norm." At the far extreme are people who are radicals, odds-breakers, etc. I'm not sure how this distinguishes from a strong Pluto influence, except that additional Pluto traits (e.g., tendency to isolation and "removing" oneself) aren't necessarily present.

As McCormick summarized at one point: "More and more I suspect a public distrust or perhaps mistrust of those with more than two retrograde planets. This attitude is reflected in the native's tendency to withdraw either into a solitary occupation or into one which he can exercise without having to please others."

This is a consistent enough effect anecdotally that I thought it worth reviewing McCormick's work here and letting people play with it.

Here is the expected frequency for how many retrograde planets one has (counting only the eight non-luminary planets normally used):

0 - 8%
1 - 19%
2 - 29%
3 - 27%
4 - 13%
5 - 4%
6 - 1%
7 - 0%

[7 planets retrograde was last known to occur for 2 dates late in the 19th Century.]
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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:33 pm

Here are some of John McCormick's interpretations for these different conditions. I merely repeat them, not necessarily endorsing any particular statement. Consider them premises to be investigated.

0 Planets Retrograde (8%)
"...those who are required to expend enormous [physical] effort in the pursuit of their goals... They are required to perspire, to endure beyond reason, and to submit themselves to long and rigorous period of training." He found this "in abundance" for athletes and dancers, and a striking 11% of U.S. Presidents (through 1975, of course.)
NOTE by JAE: I fall in this category. If effort is considered physical, as McCormick insisted, then it is strikingly untrue of me. If the physicality is removed, then most people would consider the above fitting me exactly. Also, I have not undertaken long periods of training in the usual way this is meant, and have entered several fields successfully without the kind of formal training usually required (e.g., practiced law for a decade). - I see something unencumbered about people I know with no planets retrograde: In particular, there is a strong tendency to get away with almost anything in circumstances where most people expect to be called to task for it. (Consider both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush - both of whom, in different ways, have nearly made a career from being unscathed to the utter bafflement of their detractors.) - (Note Bill Gates here vs. Steve Jobs @ 5.)
RECENT U.S. PRESIDENTS: Bill Clinton, George W. Bush. (Add: Abraham Lincoln)
RECENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: Al Sharpton, Newt Gingrich

1 Planet Retrograde (19%)
"... the lone wolf... works alone and achieves alone... neither needs nor desires the participation of others... friendly because he is fearlessly independent." McCormick found this "most often" among writers and bullfighters, "but not confined to them." Statesmen had only 6%, far less than expected; and it didn't occur at all in his collection of generals' horoscopes.
RECENT U.S. PRESIDENTS: John Kennedy, Jimmy Carter [Cf: Napoleon Bonaparte, Vladimir Putin]
RECENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: Dennis Kucinich, Rudy Giuliani

2 Planets Retrograde (29%)
Going with the general premise I gave above, McCormick observed that "these people would seem most usual to us since we encounter them most often." (More people fall in this category than any other.) He found that the career "depends upon public acceptance and appreciation." For example, his samples of politicians and statesmen had a "whopping" 64% in this group instead of the expected 29%. He concluded that 2 planets retrograde will "make one more easily acceptable to the public."
RECENT U.S. PRESIDENTS: Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, Lyndon Johnson, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, Barack Obama, Donald Trump [Add: Tony Blair. Cf: Adolph Hitler.]
RECENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: Dick Cheney, Joe Lieberman, Dick Gephardt, Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Sarah Palin (Add: Robert Kennedy)

3 Planets Retrograde (27%)
Nearly as common as 2 planets. McCormick observed, nonetheless, that the 2% from the prior category "is sufficient to disturb the public confidence" of the prior coccurrence. The occurence of 3 retrograde planets, and the presumed absence of public acceptance, "seems to drive the native... underground" and "gives birth to a sullen determination to excel." It "quite often in chess masters and matadors.
NOTE by JAE: Notice how McCormick's characterization resembles the normal behavior pattern of "second oldest" child in family constellation.
RECENT U.S. PRESIDENTS: Franklin Roosevelt, Richard Nixon, George H.W. Bush
OTHER REPRESENTATIVE PRESIDENTS: George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson
RECENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: Al Gore, John Edwards, Ron Paul (Add: Edward Kennedy)

4 Planets Retrograde (13%)
McCormick found this most frequently among writers (23% vs. expected 13%). As this is much less common than the prior two categories, he finds "a tendency... to withdraw and seek expression in private."
REPRESENTATIVE U.S. PRESIDENTS: Theodore Roosevelt (who was so atypical that he probably couldn't have gotten elected on his own), Joe Biden
RECENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: John Kerry, Wesley Clark, Mitt Romney, Joe Biden, Rick Santorum

5 Planets Retrograde (4%)
No U.S. President ever had more than four retrograde planets. (It seems they are too far removed from acceptable, recognizable, mainstream.) Generals showed 8% (double the expected). McCormick concluded that people with 5 planets retrograde "while demonstrably capable, tend to exercise their talents away from the public gaze." I would add that folks tend to regard such people with suspicion, having an instinctive sense that "they're not like most folks."
RECENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: Rick Perry

6 Planets Retrograde (1%)
The three best known people born in the 51 days (between 1880 and 1980) when six planets were simultaneously retrograde are Angela Davis, Muhammed Ali, and Janis Joplin. Since all three have a Capricorn Sun, some of the observable common traits are also reltated to a strong factor other than the number of planets retrograde. Nonetheless, when seen in the context of the emerging pattern above, a more extreme version of the "5 retrogrades" pattern seems discernible. (McCormick was even more conservative, and declined to draw any conclusions at all.)

7 Planets Retrograde (0%)
Essentially never occurs. (It only occurred for 2 days in the late 1800s, and 6 days in 1984.)
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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:34 pm

gmugmble wrote:Ha! That's funny. I have all the outer planets (Jupiter through Pluto) retrograde. You may convince me there's something to astrology yet.

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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:34 pm

Danica wrote:
gmugmble wrote:Ha! That's funny. I have all the outer planets (Jupiter through Pluto) retrograde. You may convince me there's something to astrology yet.
me too! :shock:
Jim, thanks for the refreshing look at retrogradation! the only literature on the subject known to me previously was Martin Schulman's "Karmic astrology", and bits from Jeff Green's book on Pluto, both of which approaches are based on theories, with no appeal to the student to examine it by observation

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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:36 pm

AvshalomBinyamin wrote:I just checked the charts, and I think I have 0 planets retrograde (October 8, 1980).

Either it's my angular Saturn, or it's the 0 planets, but yeah, I definitely feel that the definition fits. I frequently find myself in situations that require a lot of endurance and sweat (fortunately I have an overabundance of both). I also do tend to get away with stuff. :lol:

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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:37 pm

gmugmble wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:... people with 5 planets retrograde "while demonstrably capable, tend to exercise their talents away from the public gaze."

Where I've worked for the past 12 years, the most frequent piece of advice I've gotten from several managers is that I need to "increase my visibility."
I would add that folks tend to regard such people with suspicion ...
I don't think people regard me with suspicion. People generally seem to like and accept me but, I'm told, regard me as something of a mystery because they never know what I'm thinking. 

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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:37 pm

Freya wrote:I have five planets retrograde, plus retrograde south node. The description fits, however it leaves me wanting to know more, why it happens and what it the deeper meaning behind it....
I'm not sure there IS a deeper meaning. I suspect it's pretty basic. With 5 planets retrograde, you are statistically on the fringe of the general populace, so your behavior is probably on the statistical fringe as well. ;)
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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:39 pm

Here, for reference and comparison, are the number of retrogrades in the natal charts of frequent forum participants who have shared their birth data.

0 - Jim, Avshalom, Florence, Steve
1 - Debbie, Iaomai, James Condor, JSAD
2 - Venus Daily
3 - Arena, Bogdan, Derek, Scales
4 - Alexandra, Gerry456, Tina
5 - Danica, Freya
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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:39 pm

Venus_Daily wrote:I just saw this post, and with Neptune being in the background and retrograde, I can say that I am a very logical person. I am not talking about concrete logic (literalism) more like depressive realism. I am, level-headed and usually feel like dreams cost more than what you potentially receive in the end, but it is probably symbolic of personal issues.
I know a young person with autism, and they can communicate for the most part, but he is way out there. He has 5 planets retrograde with Jupiter being stationary retrograde. I'll share his chart sometime, it's as "outside of the norm" as it sounds.

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Re: Retrogradation

Post by mikestar13 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:48 pm

Interesting. I've never given retrogrades much weight in delineations (maybe "no weight" would be a better description), not least because of the pop astrology nonsense that retrograde = bad. Since I have five retrogrades (Jupiter through Pluto), I rejected this out of hand. I never thought of counting retrogrades as opposed to trying to parse the difference between what (say) Jupiter retrograde would mean vs. an otherwise similar Jupiter direct. Yet the delineation above for five retrogrades fits me very well, and I have a particular affinity for the music of Janis Joplin (six retrogrades)....
Time matters

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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Arena » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:33 am

I must say that I think that this is just nonsense. Those characteristics in people will most certainly show up just by looking at their planets on angles/background and their aspects and probably have nothing at all to do with retrogradation. The planets up there never actually move backwards as we know :D ...and although they do appear to sometimes, they are actually just on the move and we do not have any concrete evidence at all that it would matter in a natal chart.

Let's take what Venus_Daily says above for an example. She says she is
a very logical person
...well looking at her chart for Kingsville Texas (do you live there now?) she has Mercury partile sq her ASC, and Mercury is indeed the planet of logic. She says it is kind of like
depressive realism
...well with that Saturn squaring her MC, so another planet affecting her angles. Saturn is also partile sextile her Sun and a bit wider sextile to her Moon. In addition she has Pluto on Vx. She states that Neptune is background (seems like it is middleground) ... but we can also see that both luminaries and both benefics are middleground/background. To me, all explanations to her statements can be explained by this.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1187

Venus_Daily, have you ever considered relocating to your Venus line? Your Venus receives an aspect from Jupiter, so bringing Venus to an angle might be very benefic for you. Might be worth going to Darwin, Australia for a few weeks to see how you feel over there :) ...Australia, in general, seems like a good place for you.

...mikestar13 said:
I have a particular affinity for the music of Janis Joplin (six retrogrades)
Well, I love the music of Janis Joplin as well and I don't think for a minute that it has to do with any retrogrades :)

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Re: Retrogradation

Post by SteveS » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:28 am

IMO, the only true value of Planetary Retrogression is this 'apparent' viewed factor only from earth is the cause for planetary 'stations' on sensitive points with our charts. There is no doubt in my mind when stations occur on sensitive points in our charts--it is very important. Why, I don't fully understand, because in true astronomical motion reality--a planet is never actually retrograde--it only appears to be retrograde if one was actually looking at the planets from earth with the different planetary motions (speeds). A most excellent example of a 'station' exists with Sidereal Mundane Astrology: At the beginning of World War 11, Mars was 'stationed' at 00,01 Capricorn (a master sensitive point in the Sidereal Zodiac)--partile 180 1939 Cansolar Sun from a most dynamic aspected 1939 Cansolar, which indeed was the supreme Sidereal Mundane Chart that truly timed the beginning of World War 11.

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Re: Retrogradation

Post by mikestar13 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:08 am

Arena wrote:...mikestar13 said:

I have a particular affinity for the music of Janis Joplin (six retrogrades)

Well, I love the music of Janis Joplin as well and I don't think for a minute that it has to do with any retrogrades :)
I'm sure you're right: retrogrades are a tiny shading at best, and the Joplin thing is an amusing coincidence. The rest of my chart concurs with the five retrogrades delineation. This sort of very minor significance may be marginally useful in some cases. For example, let's say a natal chart has Jupiter and Saturn of approximatly equivlent "stength", with Jupiter clearly the stronger though to a small degree, yet observation of the native himself/herself clearly shows Saturn to be the stronger (again to a small degree). In such a chart, I would expect a chorus of minor items yelling "Saturn". Yet ignoring this sort of thing might affect the accuracy of your readings by say 1/2 of 1%.

An unrelated aside: when I hear Joplin's Lord Won't You Buy Me A Mercedes-Benz in a Mercedes-Benz commercial I want to (a) spit blood and fire and the TV, and (b) laugh uproariously at the same time.
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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:50 am

Arena wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:33 am
I must say that I think that this is just nonsense.
At the beginning of this conversation, Jim said
(Apr 7, 2012)
Retrogradation is, at best, a very minor factor. In most instances, I ignore it completely - 100% - and am certain I lose no relevant information.
Retrograde condition does, however, have a strong enough effect to show with weak significance in statistical examination.
Retrogradation is weakly statistically valid. This thread gives naval gazers some direction they may find useful in order to Delve More Deeply into their charts, but the above quote from Jim right at the very top of the thread also says you and I can safely ignore it.

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Individual planets retrograde

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:22 pm

(I decided to keep this in the same thread as the foregoing. I don't think it's worth an independent thread.)

I still hold the view that retrogradation, though weakly statistically significant, is a factor so minor it can be ignored.

Nonetheless, in the spirit of ongoingly challenging old conclusions and of providing actual data for a statement, and since I'm now in a place to pull large numbers of notable people from a data base, I'll post below lists of people who have each of the eight non-luminary planets retrograde. Feel free to explore and to share observations.

Mercury Rx https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 850#p46843
Venus Rx https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 850#p46844
Mars Rx https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 850#p46845
Jupiter Rx https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 850#p46846
Saturn Rx https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 850#p46847
Uranus Rx https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 850#p46848
Neptune Rx https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 850#p46849
Pluto Rx https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 850#p46850
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Mercury Rx

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:22 pm

OBSERVATIONS: While a rare "impaired Mercury" example like Marlee Maitlin appears in the list below, there are many examples - a majority of the list - of people who have effectively made their impact on the world with their words, including numerous significant writers, a remarkable list of outstanding scientists, etc. I see an interesting cluster of significant film directors (most of the directors in this particular collection of charts). Nothing in this list suggests to me any of the attributes traditionally assigned to Mercury Rx. (It would be easier to argue that this is a premium Mercury list.)
  • Pres. Harry S Truman, King John I, King James I, Queen Anne, King George III, King Louis XVI, Queen Isabella I, Czar Ivan the Terrible, Prince Consort Albert, Diana Princess of Wales, Princess Mary, Elizabeth Stuart, Justice Stephen Breyer, Sen. John Glenn, Rep. Helen Gahagen Douglas, Rep. Sonny Bono, Rep. Liz Cheney, Gov. George Wallace, Mayor Tom Bradley, Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Harvey Milk, Rose Mary Woods,
  • Francis Ford Coppola, George Lucas, Sydney Pollack, Ron Howard, Wes Craven,
  • Linus Pauling, Jonas Salk, Thomas Henry Huxley, Luther Burbank, Simon Newcomb, George Boole, Lucy Hutchinson, Richard Krafft-Ebing, Roberto Assagioli, Isaac Pitman, Gustave Eiffel, Buckminster Fuller, Johannes Trithemius, Carl Sagan, Terence McKenna,
  • Alan Leo, Carl W. Stahl, Linda Goodman,
  • Aaron Kosiminski, Bruno Hauptmann, Charles Whitman, Ian Brady, OJ Simpson, James Hanratty, James Huberty, Robert Strack, Ted Bundy, Genevieve Lhermitte,
  • Alan Dershowitz, Alan Hale Jr., Aly Sheedy, Amanda Knox, Amber Tamblyn, Amy Winehouse, Balthus, Barbara Bain, Bela Lugosi, Belinda Carlisle, Bernadette Peters, Bernie Madoff, Bette Midler, Bill Maher, Brian Wilson, Bruce Springsteen, Burl Ives, Catherine Corsini, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Celia Franca, Chaka Khan, Carole King, Uma Thurman, Eleanor Smeal, Frances Yates, Frederich Engels, Geena Davis, Harry Houdini, Helen Gurley Brown, Helen Reddy, Janis Joplin, Judy Garland, Monica Lewinsky, Patty Hearst, J. Paul Getty, Jacqueline Suzann, Jimmy Page, John Belushi, Lauren Bacall, Linda Sexton, Liliane Bettencourt, LeAnn Rhimes, Terri Lynn Carrington, Miley Cyrus, Michelle Pfeifer, Maurice Jarre, Marlee Maitlin, Marjoe Gortner, Marion Jones, Marion Cotillard, Maria Swanenburg, Margo St. James, Marcia Gay Harden, Madonna, Paul McCartney, Richard Francis Burton, Rodney King, Rowena Jackson, Richard E. Byrd, Robert Downey Jr., Rod Serling, Roger Ebert, Rona Barrett, Rudyard Kipling, William Faulkner, Sharon Tate, Salvador Dali, Steve Jobs, Sandra Bernhard, Shannon Doherty, Anne Frank, Chelsea Clinton, Dakota Fanning, David Copperfield, Dottie Wiltse Collins, Ellen Burstyn, Giorgio Armani, Glenn Close, Gloria Estefan, Israel Regardie, Julia Child, Julia Roberts, Kathy Bates, Keir Dullea, Kesha, Lorraine Hansberry, Luciano Pavarotti, Tina Turner, Sheryl Crow, Hugh Hefner, Alan Alda, Patti Page, Gordon Ramsay, Margaret Atwood, Tamora Pierce, Jane Fonda, Giacomo Puccini, Mae West, Hedy Lamarr, Yo-Yo Ma, Jessica Mitford, Jojo
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Venus Rx

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:22 pm

OPERATION: One might think Venus Rx, if meaningful, would have some more obvious impact on one's personal relationships. However, no negative impact on partnerships seems evident from the list below. In fact, we find several enduring, quality romantic (wedded) partnerships, though the circumstances are different in each case (e.g., Alan Leo had a celibate marriage). With negative relationships we could cite the repeated marriage troubles Carole King experienced or perhaps Demi Moore's on-again, off-again pairings. However, for positive partnerings (commonly of real partnership on many levels) we find (among others) Alan Leo, Queen Isabella, Laura Bush, Pete Buttigieg, George H.W. Bush, Princess Claire, and George Takei. -- Of course, there are cruel and violent people in the list, but it seems unlikely this pertains to Venus Rx since there are also outstanding examples of compassion.

  • Pres. Geroge H.W. Bush, PM Winston Churchill, Chancellor Adolf Hitler, King Charles VIII, Pres. Charles de Gaulle, Queen Isabella I, Sen. Cory Booker, Sec. Condoleezza Rice, Sec. Pete Buttigieg, Princess Claire Coombs, Laura W. Bush, Gov. George Wallace, Omarosa Margault,
  • George Boole, Thomas Henry Huxley, Terence McKenna,
  • Alan Leo, Alfred Witte,
  • Lizzie Borden, Ted Bundy, Stephen Paddock, David Koresh,
  • Carole King, Chaka Khan, Wynonna Judd, Melanie C, Amy Winehouse, Susan Boyle, Anna Moffo, Nathalie Stutzmann, Ringo Starr, Stu Sutcliffe, Johannes Brahms, Giacomo Puccini,
  • Florence Farr, Dorothy Dandridge, Tallulah Bankhead, Olivia De Haviland, Hedy Lamar, Audrey Hepburn, Tuesday Weld, Morgan Fairchild, Kathy Bates, Marcia Gay Harden, Demi Moore, Ellen DeGeneris, Elvira, George Takei,
  • Pearl Buck, Theodore Sturgeon, Ken Kesey, Clifford Irving,
  • Anne Besant, Jane Roberts, St. Teresa of Avila, Werner Erhard, Charles Lindbergh, Ted Turner, Raphael of Urbino, Theo Van Gogh, Mark Spitz, Martin Frankel, George Baxter
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Mars Rx

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:23 pm

OBSERVATION: If there is anything to natal planets retrograde, it seems to me that it should be most evident in Mars - a planet fast enough that it doesn't slip into the patterns of the outer planets, and which has a strong impact on how one expresses energies and takes after life.

On casual inspection, I do see an interesting end of life pattern I haven't noticed in the Mercury or Venus lists: There seem to be many deaths from serious disease or violence, plus some suicides. (Not a majority of the examples, but more than I'm used to seeing in one place.) The ones I notice on quick inspection include: Valerie Harper (cancer), Linda McCartney (cancer), Linus Pauling (cancer), Freud (cancer ended by morphine), Mozart (unspecified inflammatory disease), Dudley Moore (degenerative brain disorder), Karen Carpenter (cardiac failure from anorexia), Judy Garland (accidental OD), James Dean (violent accident), Will Rogers (plane crash), John F. Kennedy Jr. (plane crash), Karen Silkwood (car accident or homicide), Martin Luther King Jr. (murder), George Lincoln Rockwell (murder), King Ludwig II (suicide or murder), Virginia Woolf (suicide), Michel Gauquelin (suicide), Naomi Judd (suicide). Some less unusual examples (everybody dies from something) that, nonetheless, were newsworthy deaths include Cass Elliot, FDR, and Jim Morrison.

There are few politicians or eminent heads of state and few (but bloody) murderers.

  • Emperor Augustus, Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt, Marshal Henri Philippe Petain, King Ludwig II, Justice Samuel Alito, Betty Ford,
  • Linus Pauling, George Boole, Sigmund Freud, Hans Eysenck, Gustave Eiffel,
  • Alan Leo, Michel Gauquelin, Reinhold Ebertin,
  • Lizzie Borden, Florence Maybrick, William Heirens,
  • Alice Cooper, Andrew Lloyd Webber, Annie Besant, Bernadette Peters, Billy Jean King, Cass Elliot, Valerie Harper, Virginia Woolf, Eleanor Smeal, Florence Farr, Helen Reddy, James Dean, Judy Garland, Jesse Jackson, Jim Morrison, Jimmy Page, Lauren Bacall, Linda McCartney, Theodore Sturgeon, Robert Heinlein, Mother Meera, Morgan Freeman, Mila Jovovich, Maurice Jarre, Paul Simon, Pauline Hanson, Philip K. Dick, Phyllis Schlafly, Rodney King, Robert Downey Jr., Wolfgang Mozart, Will Rogers, Sally Kellerman, Salome Jens, Steffi Graf, Chelsey Clinton, David Copperfield, Dinah Shore, Dolly Parton, Dr. Dre, Dudley Moore, Erich Segal, John Wayne Bobbit, John F. Kennedy Jr., Karen Carpenter, Karen Silkwood, Kenneth Branagh, Lauren Hutton, Lord Byron, Louisa May Alcott, William Burroughs, Barbara Hershey, Marion Davies, Naomi Judd, Nate Silver, Martin Luther King Jr., Lin-Manuel Miranda, Chuck Berry, Diane Sawyer, George Lincoln Rockwell, George Takei, West Craven, Jojo
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Jupiter Rx

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:23 pm

OBSERVTIONS: There is certainly no lack of dignity or success in the examples (Oprah nearly makes this case by herself). There are abundant examples of strong Jupiter themes including political dignitaries (an astonishing list of U.S. presidents), eminent justices, spiritual leaders, actors and musicians... overall, if anything, this could be taken as a list of people with strong, balanced Jupiter, certainly not impeded in any sense.

  • Emperor Franz Joseph I, Pres. George Washington, Pres. Thomas Jefferson, Pres. Rutherford B. Hayes, Pres. William H. Taft, Pres. Theodore Roosevelt, Pres. Gerald R. Ford, Pres. George H. W. Bush, Pres. Barack Obama, Pres. Donald J. Trump, Pres Joseph R. Biden Jr., Queen Margaret Tudor, King George VI, Queen Catherine de Medici, Czar Alexander I, PM Indira Gandhi, PM Cecil Rhodes, King Farouk, VP Kamala Harris, Prince Consort Albert, Queen Consort Caroline, Grace Kelly, Diana Princess of Wales, Justice Anthony Kennedy, Justice Stephen Breyer, Maximilien Robespierre, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Sen. Cory Booker, Rosalynn Carter, Barbara Bush, William Penn, Gov. Chris Christie, Mayor Tom Bradley, Kellyanne Conway, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Rose Mary Woods,
  • Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh, St. Therese of Liseux, Billy Graham, Dalai Lama XIV, Mohandas Gandhi,
  • Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Louis Pasteur, Luther Burbank, Paul Janssen, Albert Hoffman, Anna Freud, R.D. Laing, Rollo May, Jane Goodall, Dian Fossey, Isaac Pitman,
  • Donald A. Bradley, R.C. Firebrace, Rupert S. Gleadow, Michel Gauquelin, Max Heindel, Margaret Millard, Margaret Hone
  • Beatrice Cenci, Lee Harvey Oswald, Richard Speck, Leslie Van Houten, William Heirens, Jeffrey Dahmer, James Holmes, OJ Simpson, Amy Fisher,
  • Agatha Christie, Alan Dershowitz, Alan Hale, Jr., Amber Tamblyn, Angela Davis, Anne Baxter, Anton Chekhov, Antonio Banderas, Balthus, Bela Lugosi, Betty Friedan, Bill Maher, Bobby Fischer, Bruce Lee, Candice Bergen, Candy Barr, Carol Burnett, Celine Dion, Charles Atlas, Nathalie Stutzmann, Olga Wormser, Oprah Winfrey, Queen Latifah, Uma Thurman, Valerie Harper, Vincent Price, Eddie Van Halen, Eleanor Smeal, Elias Ashmole, Franz Joseph Haydn, Friedrich Nietzsche, Gabriella Papadakis, Gayle King, Geena Davis, John Lennon, George Harrison, Harry Chapin, Harry Houdini, Heidi Fleiss, Helen Gurley Brown, Helen Reddy, Hermann Hesse, Henriette Bosmans, Jack Parsons, James Dean, Janis Joplin, Karl Marx, L. Ron Hubbard, Marjorie Cameron, Monica Lewinsky, Jackie Robinson, Janeane Garofalo, Jayne Mansfield, Jean Harlow, Jerry Rubin, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Joan Ganz Cooney, Joe Pesci, John Milton, Lana Turner, Lily Pons, Lynn Redgrave, Lily Tomlin, Morgan Freeman, Michelle Pfeiffer, Michael J. Fox, Meryl Streep, Melissa Etheridge, Mary Wilson, Mary Shelley, Mark Wahlberg, Marjoe Gortner, Marion Jones, Marion Cotillard, Margo St. James, Marcel Marceau, Malcolm X, Pattie Boyd, Paul Simon, Peggy Fleming, Philip K. Dick, Prince, Raphael of Urbino, Raquel Welch, Roseanne Barr, Rami Malek, Rose McGowan, Ruth Buzzi, Whitney Houston, William Randolph Hearst, Sally Kellerman, Salome Jens, Steve Jobs, Stevie Nicks, Sally Eaton, Sarah Bernhardt, Shannen Doherty, Sheena Easton, Shirley Jones, Simone de Beauvoir, Steve Carrell, Chelsea Clinton, Cher, Christopher Reeve, Dana Delany, David Duke, David Letterman, Dennis Hopper, Diamond Jim Brady, Diane Arbus, Dudley Moore, Duffy, Dustin Hoffman, Dymphna Cusack, Elvira, Erich Segal, Ernest Gallo, Julio Gallo, Georgia Bonesteel, Gertrude Stein, Giuliana De Sio, Glenn Close, Gloria Steinem, Grace Slick, Guglielmo Marconi, Gustave Flaubert, John Cleese, John Coltrane, John Legend, Judith Butler, Julian Assange, Julie London, Julie Taymor, Karen Silkwood, Kathleen Battle, Kathryn Bigelow, Kathy Bates, Keir Dullea, Kris Kristofferson, Kurt Cobain, Kylie Jenner, Liza Minnelli, Lord Byron, Lucy Lawless, Bob Marley, Jennifer Aniston, Marion Davies, Nate Silver, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Robert Anton Wilson, Sidonie-Gabrielle Colette, Lisa Marie Presley, Havelock Ellis, Natalie Wood, Hera Myrtel, Patti Page, Margaret Atwood, Martin Frankel, Tamora Pierce, Giacomo Puccini, H.P. Lovecraft, Richard Pryor, Mia Farrow, Hans Christian Andersen, Diana Ross, Herman Melville, Bettie Page, Elaine Pagels, Jerry Springer, Wes Craven, JoJo
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Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:23 pm

Adele
Alan Dershowitz
Alan Hale, Jr.
Alan Watts
Albert, Prince Consort
Alfried Krupp
Alice Cooper
Ally Sheedy
Amanda Knox
Amber Tamblyn
Andrew Lloyd Webber
Andy Griffith
Andy Kaufman
Angela Davis
Angelo A. Buono
Anna Moffo
Anne Baxter
Annette Funicello
Annie Besant
Anthony Kennedy
Anton Chekhov
Antonio Banderas
Arthur H. Blackwell
Arthur Goode
Audrey Hepburn
Austin O. Spare
Augustus, Emperor
Allen Ginsberg
Barack Obama
Barbara Bain
Barbara Bush
Barbara Hutton
Barbara Minty
Bela Lugosi
Belinda Carlisle
Bernadette Peters
Bertrand Russell
Bette Midler
Betty Friedan
Betty White
Beverly Sills
Billie Jean King
Brenda Lee
Bruce Lee
Buddy Holly
Cass Elliot
Calvin Coolidge
Candy Barr
Cardinal Richelieu
Carl G. Jung
Carla Van Raay
Catherine Corsini
Catherine Zeta-Jones
Chaka Khan
Charles E.O. Carter
Catherine Deneuve
Nat "King" Cole
Neil Armstrong
Oriana Fallaci
Greta Garbo
Oscar Wilde
Valerie Harper
Vivien Leigh
Eartha Kitt
Edgar Rice Burroughs
Edith Piaf
Edward Gein
Eleanor Roosevelt
Elizabeth II, Queen
Ferdinand von Zeppelin
Frank Sinatra
Frank Lloyd Wright
Frederich Engels
Gary Duncan
Gene Wilder
George Eliot
George Michael
George B. McClellan
Hans Eysenck
Harper Lee
Harry Chapin
Harvey Milk
Helen Gurley Brown
Helen Hunt
Helen MacInnes
Helen Reddy
Hendrik Verwoerd
Henri III, King
Hermann Hesse
Imelda Marcos
Immanuel Kant
Henri Desire Landru
Henry VIII, King
Isabella I, Queen of Castille
James K. Polk
Joseph R. Biden Jr.
Richard M. Nixon
Thomas Jefferson
Woodrow Wilson
Janis Joplin
Jeffrey Dahmer
Jerry Lewis
Jim Jones
Joan of Arc
John Lennon
John Forbes Nash, Jr.
Joseph McCarthy
Kamala Harris
Kenneth Irving
Larry Flynt
Lee Harvey Oswald
Leonardo da Vinci
Marilyn Monroe
Marjorie Cameron
Patty Hearst
Richard Speck
Rutherford B. Hayes
Cyril Fagan
James Hanrattty
James Huberty
Mark David Chapman
Phil Spector
Robert Strack
Ted Bundy
Jackie Robinson
James Baker
Jane Avril
Jane Roberts
Janeane Garofalo
Janet Baker
Jenny McCarthy
Jerry Lee Lewis
Jesse Jackson
Jim Morrison
Jimi Hendrix
Jimmy Page
Joachim Von Ribbentrop
Joanne Herring
Johannes Brahms
John Belushi
Jean-Paul Sartre
Janet Gaynor
Lana Turner
Leonard Cohen
Lily Pons
Linda McCartney
Lisa Kudrow
Liz Cheney
Lily Tomlin
Ted Turner
Terri Lyne Carrington
Theodore Sturgeon
Morgan Fairchild
Miles Davis
Mila Jovovich
Michelle Pfeiffer
Michelangelo
Michael J. Fox
Melissa Etheridge
Melanie C (Sporty Spice)
Megan Fox
Maya Angelou
Mata Hari
Martha Graham
Marlon Brando
Marlee Matlin
Marjoe Gortner
Margo St. James
Margaret Cho
Marcia Gay Harden
Marcel Marceau
Malcolm X
Madonna
M.C. Escher
Patsy Cline
Patti Smith
Paul Simon
Paula Abdul
Pauline Hanson
Penny Marshall
Polly Bergen
Benedict XVI, Pope
Prince
Raphael of Urbino
Raquel Welch
Rowena Jackson
Rami Malek
Raymond Buckland
Reese Witherspoon
Rene Russo
Richard Krafft-Ebing
Robert Blake
Robert Louis Stevenson
Roberto Assagioli
Ron Howard
Rona Barrett
Rose Mary Woods
Ross Perot
Rudolph Hess
Ruth Buzzi
Warren Buffett
Werner Erhard
Whitney Houston
Will Rogers
William Randolph Hearst
William Penn
Winona Ryder
Sharon Tate
Sri Aurobindo
Teresa of Avila, St.
Steven Spielberg
Samuel Alito
Simon Newcomb
Sophia Loren
Stacey Abrams
Stephen Breyer
Sydney Pollack
Sandra Bernhard
Sheena Easton
Steve Carrell
Susan Watkins
Anne Frank
Charlie Sheen
Chelsea Clinton
Chelsea Handler
Chloris Leachman
Chris Christie
Clara Bow
Dalai Lama XIV (Tenzin Gyatso)
Dana Delany
Dane Rudhyar
David Koresh
Diahann Carroll
Diana, Princess of Wales
Diane Arbus
Dinah Shore
Dolly Parton
Donald A. Bradley
Donna Summer
Dorothy Hamill
Douglas Adams
Drew Barrymore
Duffy (Aimee Ann Duffy)
Dustin Hoffman
Dymphna Cusack
Ernest Hemingway
George H. W. Bush
Georgia Bonesteel
Giorgio Armani
Giuliana De Sio
Gladys Bentley
Glenn Close
Grace Slick
Gustave Flaubert
Israel Regardie
John Cleese
John Legend
John McCain
Jonas Salk
JonBenet Ramsey
Jules Verne
Julia Roberts
Karen Carpenter
Karen MacNeil
Karen Silkwood
Kathleen Kennedy
Kelly Ripa
Ken Kesey
Kylie Jenner
Lauren Hutton
Liz Renay
Liza Minnelli
Llewellyn George
Lorraine Hansberry
Louis XVI, King
Louis XIV, of France
Louis Pasteur
Luciano Pavarotti
Lucy Hutchinson
Ludwig II, King of Bavaria
Tina Turner
Tom Bradley
Tyra Banks
William Burroughs
Barbara Hershey
Omarosa Manigault
Bob Marley
Jeb Stuart
Mark Spitz
Jeb Bush
Farouk, King of Egypt
Mary-Louise von Franz
Linda Lovelace
Algernon Swinburne
Betty Ford
Linda Goodman
Hugh Hefner
Elena Aiello
Tony Kushner
Marthe Hanau
Lorenzo de Medici
Naomi Judd
Nate Silver
Lin-Manuel Miranda
Claire Coombs, Princess
Havelock Ellis
Farrah Fawcett
Thomas More
Ethel Kennedy
J. Pierpont Morgan
Margot Honecker
Kourtney Kardashian
Bonnie Langford
Marie Laurencin
Gordon Ramsay
George Patton
Genevieve Lhermitte
Margaret Atwood
Goldie Hawn
Patty Duke
Lady Bird Johnson
Giacomo Puccini
Sally Ride
Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis
Tim Rice
Hedy Lamarr
Richard Pryor
Mia Farrow
Hans Christian Andersen
Gena Rowlands
Herman Melville
Roman Polanski
Julie Andrews
Diane Sawyer
Lewis Carroll
George Lincoln Rockwell
Stephen Paddock
Bettie Page
Jerry Springer
Matt LeBlanc
Uri Geller
Myrna Loy
Jackie Coogan
Immanuel Veliikovsky
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Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:23 pm

Adele
Adolf Hitler
Alan Dershowitz
Alanis Morissette
Albert, Prince Consort
Albert Einstein
Alfred Dreyfus
Alfred Witte
Alfried Krupp
Alice Cooper
Amanda Knox
Amber Tamblyn
Andy Kaufman
Angela Davis
Angelo A. Buono
Annette Funicello
Annie Besant
Annie Horniman
Anton Chekhov
Arnold Palmer
Arthur H. Blackwell
Augusta Foss Heindel
Angela Lansbury
Barbara Bain
Barbara Walters
Bernadette Peters
Bette Midler
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh
Bill Maher
Billie Jean King
Bo Derek
Brenda Lee
Bruce Lee
Buddy Holly
Burl Ives
Cass Elliot
Cardinal Richelieu
Carl Benz
Carla Van Raay
Carmen Electra
Caroline Kennedy
Catharine MacKinnon
Celia Franca
Celine Dion
Charles E.O. Carter
Charles Manson
Catherine II, Empress of Russia
Catherine Deneuve
Neil Armstrong
Neil Diamond
Niccolo Machiavelli
Nina Hartley
Noel Tyl
Olga Wormser
Oprah Winfrey
Oscar Wilde
Queen Latifah
Uma Thurman
Victoria, Queen
Vincent Price
Virginia Woolf
Virginia Brooks
Zipporah Dobyns
Eartha Kitt
Eddie Van Halen
Edgar Degas
Edith Wangemann
Edward Bulwer-Lytton
Edward Gein
Edward VIII, King
Faye Dunaway
Ferdinand von Zeppelin
Francis I, Pope
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Franz Joseph I, Emperor
Franz Joseph Haydn
Friedrich Nietzsche
Fritz Perls
Gabriella Papadakis
Gary Duncan
Gayle King
Geena Davis
Gene Roddenberry
George III, King
George Plantagenet
Gerald R. Ford
Harry Chapin
Harry Houdini
Heidi Fleiss
Helen Reddy
Helene Boucher
Helene Segara
Honore de Balzac
Ian Brady
Immanuel Kant
Henry VIII, King
Jimmy Carter
John F. Kennedy
Joseph R. Biden Jr.
Ulysses S. Grant
Warren G. Harding
Woodrow Wilson
Jack Parsons
Janis Joplin
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
John Lennon
Karl Marx
Kenneth Irving
Larry Flynt
Lee Harvey Oswald
Linda Tripp
Patty Hearst
Richard Speck
Whoopi Goldberg
Michel Gauquelin
Cyril Fagan
Theodore Roosevelt
James Hanrattty
James Huberty
Phil Spector
Robert Strack
Ted Bundy
Timothy McVeigh
William Heirens
Jacqueline Susann
James I, King of England
Jane Russell
Janet Baker
Jasmine Guy
Jerry Lee Lewis
Jesse Jackson
Jim Morrison
Jimi Hendrix
Jimmy Page
Joachim Von Ribbentrop
Joan Ganz Cooney
John Belushi
Jean-Paul Sartre
Jeff Bridges
John Milton
Lari White
Laura W. Bush
Lauren Bacall
Lena Horne
Lenny Bruce
Leona Helmsley
Leonard Cohen
Lily Pons
Linda Blair
Linda McCartney
Lisa Edelstein
Lily Tomlin
Lucille Ball
Liliane Bettencourt
Ted Turner
Thomas F. Eagleton
Thomas Henry Huxley
Mother Meera
Morgan Fairchild
Montgomery Clift
Mindy Kaling
Michelangelo
Megan Fox
Maurice Jarre
Mary Tyler Moore
Mary Greer
Mary Astor
Mary, Queen of Scots
Mary, Princess of Great Britain
Martha Graham
Marsilio Ficino
Marquis de Sade
Mark Wahlberg
Marjoe Gortner
Marie Curie
Marie Antoinette
Maria Swanenburg
Margo St. James
Margaux Hemingway
Margaret Thatcher
Margaret Millard
M.C. Escher
Patsy Cline
Patti Smith
Paul Janssen
Paul Ryan
Paul Simon
Pearl Buck
Penny Marshall
Phyllis Lyon
Phyllis Schlafly
Placido Domingo
R.D. Laing
Raphael of Urbino
Raquel Welch
Ray Bradbury
Robert Graves
Robert Heinlein
Robert F. Kennedy
Rodney King
Roseanne Barr
Rahm Emanuel
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Rami Malek
Raymond Buckland
Reese Witherspoon
Rene Russo
Richard Carpenter
Richard Krafft-Ebing
Robert Blake
Robert Downey Jr.
Robert Louis Stevenson
Roberto Assagioli
Ron Howard
Rona Barrett
Rosalind Russell
Rosalynn Carter
Rosie O'Donnell
Rudolph Hess
Rudyard Kipling
Warren Buffett
Werner Erhard
William J. Bratton
Winston Churchill
Woody Allen
Wilhelm Gesenius
will.i.am
William Rehnquist
Sharon Tate
Jeanine Deckers (Soeur Sourire)
Steven Spielberg
Susan Boyle
Swami Vivekananda
Sylvia Plath
Salvador Dali
Sheila E.
Sophia Loren
Therese of Liseux, St.
Stephen Foster
Steve Jobs
Susan Sarandon
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Sarah Bernhardt
Shannen Doherty
Susan Watkins
Chelsea Handler
Chester A. Arthur
Christina Onassis
Clara Bow
Clifford Irving
Col. Tom Parker
Condoleezza Rice
Connie Francis
Cory Booker
Dana Delany
Dane Rudhyar
David Brinkley
Deepak Chopra
Divine
Dolly Parton
Donna Brazile
Donna Summer
Dottie Wiltse Collins
Douglas Adams
Dr. Dre
Drew Barrymore
Duffy (Aimee Ann Duffy)
Elizabeth Stuart
Ellen Burstyn
Ernest Hemingway
Esther Williams
George Wallace
Georges Clemenceau
Gertrude Stein
Ghislaine Maxwell
Giuliana De Sio
Gladys Bentley
Grace Kelly
Grace Slick
Gwendolyn Brooks
Harry S Truman
John Wayne Bobbitt
John Cleese
John Coltrane
John Glenn
John L. Lewis
John McCain
Johnny Carson
Jon Bon Jovi
JonBenet Ramsey
Josephine Baker
Judith Butler
Julia Child
Julie London
Julie Taymor
Karen Carpenter
Karen Hughes
Karen Silkwood
Katharine Hepburn
Kathryn Bigelow
Kellyanne Conway
Ken Kesey
Kenneth Branagh
Kimberly Guilfoyle
Kurt Cobain
Kylie Jenner
Lauren Hutton
Lord Byron
Louis XVI, King
Louis XIII, King
Luciano Pavarotti
Lucy Hutchinson
Lucy Lawless
Ludwig II, King of Bavaria
Tina Turner
Truman Capote
William H. Taft
Barbara Hershey
Omarosa Manigault
Bob Marley
Mark Spitz
Jennifer Aniston
Jeb Bush
Sheryl Crow
Jim Bailey
Linda Lovelace
Meg Tilly
Julian Lennon
Charles Baudelaire
Haley Joel Osment
Elena Aiello
Buckminster Fuller
Ginger Rogers
Lorenzo de Medici
Naomi Judd
Sidonie-Gabrielle Colette
Johannes Trithemius
Lisa Marie Presley
Havelock Ellis
Farrah Fawcett
Christine Angot
Emma Watson
Conan O'Brien
Kourtney Kardashian
Hera Myrtel
Patti Page
Bonnie Raitt
Dorothy Dandridge
Carl Sagan
Timothy Leary
Terence McKenna
Margaret Atwood
Goldie Hawn
Martin Frankel
Patty Duke
Jane Fonda
Giacomo Puccini
Alexander I, of Russia
Esther Phillips
Olivia De Havilland
Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis
Chuck Berry
Tim Rice
Richard Pryor
Mia Farrow
Ellen DeGeneris
Hans Christian Andersen
Herman Melville
Phyllis Diller
Roman Polanski
Julie Andrews
Charles, Prince of Wales
Diane Sawyer
Konrad Adenauer
Nicolaus Copernicus
Uri Geller
Myrna Loy
Immanuel Veliikovsky
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Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:24 pm

  • Emperor Franz Joseph I, Pres. George Washington, Pres. James Madison, Pres. Ulysses S. Grant, Pres. William H. Taft, Pres. Theodore Roosevelt, Pres. Warren G. Harding, Pres. Richard M. Nixon, Pres. Donald J. Trump, King Henry VIII, Mary Queen of Scots, Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria, King George VI, Queen Elizabeth II, PM Georges Clemenceau, PM Winston Churchill, King Henri III, King Charles VIII, Pres. Charles de Gaulle, Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, Queen Isabella I, King Ludwig II, Czar Ivan the Terrible, Chiang Kai-Shek, King Farouk, PM Jawaharlal Nehru, PM Indira Gandhi, PM Cecil Rhodes, Pope Benedict XVI, VP Dick Cheney, Crown Prince Rudolph, Prince Consort Albert, Diana Princess of Wales, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, Justice Samuel Alito, Sec. James Baker, Heinrich Himmler, Joseph Goebbels, Hermann Goering, Sen. Joseph McCarthy, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Sen. Cory Booker, Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, Rep. Helen Gahagan Douglas, Rep. Sonny Bono, Rep. Liz Cheney, Edith Wilson, Eleanor Roosevelt, Lady Bird Johnson, Pat Nixon, Betty Ford, Eva Braun, Gov. Jeb Bush, Lorenzo de Medici, Mayor Tom Bradley, Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Rose Mary Woods, Kimberly Guilfoyle
  • Tycho Brahe, Nicolaus Copernicus, Johannes Kepler, Lucy Hutchinson, Werner Heisenberg, Marie Curie, Linus Pauling, Nikola Tesla, Ferdinand von Zeppelin, Thomas Henry Huxley, Martin Heidegger, Albert Hoffman, Anna Freud, Margaret Mead, Dian Fossey, Jane Goodall, Hans Eysenck, Johannes Trithemius,
  • Alan Leo, Llewellyn George, Charles E.O. Carter, Rupert S. Gleadow, Jimmy Hynes, Carl W. Stahl, Reinhold Ebertin, Max Heindel, Margaret Hone, Noel Tyl, Linda Goodman
  • Beatrice Cenci, Aaron Kosiminski, Lizzie Borden, Winnie Ruth Judd, Florence Maybrick, Bruno Hauptmann, James Earl Ray, Ian Brady, Arthur Goode, Mark David Chapman, Jeffrey Dahmer, Robert Hansen, Rev. Jim Jones, Timothy McVeigh, Stephen Paddock
  • Adele, Agatha Christie, Aimee Semple MacPherson, Alan Hale, Jr., Alan Watts, Sri Aurobindo, Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh, St. Therese of Liseux, Mohandas Gandhi, Richard Alpert (Ram Dass), Starhawk, Alanis Morissette, Alfred Dreyfus, Alice Cooper, Ally Sheedy, Amanda Knox, Amber Tamblyn, Andrew Lloyd Webber, Andy Kaufman, Angela Davis, Annie Besant, Annie Horniman, Audrey Hepburn, Austin O. Spare, Balthus, Barbara Hutton, Barbara Minty, Bela Lugosi, Bernadette Peters, Bernie Madoff, Betty Friedan, Betty White, Billie Holiday, Billy Joel, Bobby Fischer, Brooke Shields, Candice Bergen, Carmen Electra, Carol Burnett, Carol Kane, Catherine Corsini, Celine Dion, Chaka Khan, Charles Atlas, Charles Lindbergh, Carole King, Nadya Suleman, Nat "King" Cole, Nathalie Stutzmann, Neil Diamond, Niccolo Machiavelli, Nicole Kidman, Nina Hartley, Oprah Winfrey, Oscar Wilde, Queen Latifah, Uma Thurman, Vanessa Redgrave, Vivien Leigh, Eartha Kitt, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Edgar Degas, Edith Piaf, Edward Bulwer-Lytton, Elias Ashmole, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Faye Dunaway, Florence Farr, Frances Yates, Francis Ford Coppola, George Lucas, Frank Sinatra, Friedrich Nietzsche, Gabriella Papadakis, George Harrison, George Michael, George Sand, H. G. Wells, Hal Holbrook, Harper Lee, Harpo Marx, Helen Gurley Brown, Helen Hunt, Honore de Balzac, Henriette Bosmans, James Dean, Janis Joplin, Jerry Lewis, Joan of Arc, Karl Marx, L. Ron Hubbard, Leonardo da Vinci, Marjorie Cameron, Monica Lewinsky, Patty Hearst, Paul Foster Case, J. Paul Getty, Jackie Robinson, Jane Roberts, Jasmine Guy, Jayne Mansfield, Jean Harlow, Jim Backus, Jimmy Page, Johannes Brahms, John Belushi, Joe Pesci, Lana Turner, Lari White, Lisa Edelstein, Lynn Redgrave, T.S. Eliot, Tallulah Bankhead, Tammy Faye Bakker, Theodore Sturgeon, Morgan Fairchild, Mindy Kaling, Michelle Pfeiffer, Michelangelo, Michael J. Fox, Meryl Streep, Melissa Etheridge, Megan Fox, Maya Angelou, Mary Wilson, Mary Tyler Moore, Marlon Brando, Marlene Dietrich, Mark Wahlberg, Marjoe Gortner, Maria Swanenburg, Margaux Hemingway, Marcel Marceau, Pattie Boyd, Paula Abdul, Paula Prentiss, Pauline Hanson, Peter Fonda, Philip K. Dick, Placido Domingo, Prince, Raphael of Urbino, Rodney King, Rowena Jackson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Rami Malek, Reese Witherspoon, Rene Russo, Richard E. Byrd, Richard Krafft-Ebing, Ricky Nelson, Robert Downey Jr., Robert Louis Stevenson, Rod Serling, Roger Ailes, Ron Howard, Rosie O'Donnell, William Blake, Wolfgang Mozart, Wilhelm Gesenius, Will Rogers, will.i.am, William Faulkner, Wynonna Judd, Sharon Tate, Susan Boyle, Salome Jens, Steffi Graf, Stephen Foster, Steve Allen, Steve Jobs, Stevie Nicks, Sally Eaton, Sandra Bernhard, Sarah Bernhardt, Shannen Doherty, Sheena Easton, Shirley Jones, Simone de Beauvoir, Susan Strasberg, Susan Watkins, Suzanne Valadon, Cher, Chloris Leachman, Dana Delany, David Letterman, Dean Stockwell, Dennis Hopper, Diamond Jim Brady, Diane Arbus, Dinah Shore, Dolly Parton, Douglas Adams, Dudley Moore, Duffy, Elvis Presley, Eric Idle, Erica Jong, Ernest Gallo, Julio Gallo, Giuliana De Sio, Gladys Knight, Glenn Close, Gloria Steinem, Helen Duncan, Henry Ford, Israel Regardie, John Wayne Bobbitt, Jon Bon Jovi, JonBenet Ramsey, Judith Butler, Judy Blume, Judy Collins, Julian Assange, Karen Carpenter, Karen MacNeil, Karen Silkwood, Kathleen Kennedy, Kenneth Anger, Kylie Jenner, Liz Renay, Liza Minnelli, Lois Lowry, Alfred Lord Tennyson, Lord Byron, Lucky Luciano, Lucy Lawless, William Burroughs, H.R. Giger, Barbara Hershey, Bob Marley, Roberta Flack, Mark Spitz, Marion Davies, George Martin, Mary-Louise von Franz, Jim Bailey, Jimmy Hoffa, Meg Tilly, Julian Lennon, Charles Baudelaire, Hugh Hefner, Valerie Solanas, Marthe Hanau, Naomi Judd, Kay Francis, Martin Luther King, Robert Anton Wilson, Alan Alda, Farrah Fawcett, Yvette Labrousse, Ethel Kennedy, Kenneth Lay, Margot Honecker, Conan O'Brien, Kourtney Kardashian, Barbra Streisand, Bonnie Langford, Hera Myrtel,
    Marie Laurencin, George Patton, Esther Phillips, Ava Gardner, Sally Ride, Hedy Lamarr, Walt Disney, Mia Farrow, Washington Irving, Hans Christian Andersen, Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, Priscilla Presley, Herman Melville, Ruth Gordon, Maria von Trapp, George Lincoln Rockwell, George Takei, Bettie Page, Elaine Pagels, Jerry Springer, Matt LeBlanc, Jeane Dixon, George Baxter, Jessica Mitford
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Pluto Rx

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:24 pm

Aaron Kosiminski
Adele
Agatha Christie
Aimee Semple MacPherson
Alan Hale, Jr.
Alan Watts
Alanis Morissette
Albert, Prince Consort
Alfred Dreyfus
Alice Cooper
Amanda Knox
Amber Tamblyn
Andrew Lloyd Webber
Andy Kaufman
Angela Davis
Anna Freud
Annie Besant
Annie Horniman
Arthur Goode
Austin O. Spare
Augustus, Emperor
Angela Lansbury
Balthus
Barbara Hutton
Bela Lugosi
Bernadette Peters
Bette Midler
Betty Friedan
Betty White
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh
Bill Maher
Billie Jean King
Billy Graham
Bobby Fischer
Brenda Lee
Bruce Lee
Bruno Hauptmann
Cardinal Richelieu
Carl Benz
Carl W. Stahl
Carmen Electra
Caroline, Queen Consort
Celine Dion
Chaka Khan
Charles Atlas
Charles E.O. Carter
Charles de Gaulle
Charles Lindbergh
Charles Manson
Catherine II, Empress of Russia
Catherine de Medici
Carole King
Nat "King" Cole
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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Individual planets retrograde

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:43 pm

Having tabulated these lists today, here are my first impressions (always subject to change).
  • The easiest conclusion is that there is nothing to retrogradation in a natal chart. Whatever might seem to be here is so slight that either they don't exist or there is nothing important lost by ignoring them.
  • The death patterns with Mars retrograde are the most interesting possibility I see in all these lists.
  • Were I to require myself to make a conclusion that there is something here of substance, it would be the opposite of the usual view: It would be that there is a favoring or enhancing of the planet's themes, not a reduction of them. - This is interesting since all planets when retrograde are closer to Earth than any other part of their orbit (in case planetary distance is important) and, at least during most of the retrogradation, are moving slower than average (which is something we already suspect is a factor).
Primarily, the first point in the above list is my conclusion at the moment.
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Re: Retrogradation

Post by Arena » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:23 am

I've never noticed any disturbances with retrograde planets in transits... but I also have to admit that I haven't really done any thorough study. I've just thought to myself when I see people comment that "it must be because of Mercury retrograde" that they experience trouble with communication or "it must be Venus retrograde" if there are troubles in relationship. I've ever been able to see the same for myself at such times.

I have Mercury, Jupiter and Neptune retrograde in my natal chart and I'm glad to see so many very successful people with the same "condition". :)

Thank you for this thread Jim.

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