Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

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Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:37 pm

In his Joytisha-Shastra, Shil-Ponde gave interpretations of the Nakshatras, but for Ascendant. I suspect, with minor modification, they should apply equally to Moon (to the extent they are valid at all; this has to be tested); I'm posting them here (minus passages on physical characteristics) for the possible value they have. This will give us a means of testing the theory (first tier testing) whether Moon is responsive to these. - I am also offering Western names of the stars indicated by the traditional Hindu names, e.g., Sheraton is the name of the star the Hindus call Aswini; these likely will make them more accessible.

NOTE: Shil-Ponde, per Hindu tradition, gives separate interpretations for men and women. I've started by posting just the information for men, which, in the west, is close to gender-independent. I'll now start adding the information on women, advising caution in gender stereotyping and reminding readers that this distinction arises out of a tradition-heavy "first world" culture (India as she primarily existed a century ago and, for that matter, for many centuries before that).


1. SHERATAN/Aswini (Ketu: 0°00-13°20' Aries, Beta Arietis). "This indicates a happy carefree disposition, very intelligent, in fact rather above the average person in this respect. He will be quite successful and his financial status will be such that he will seldom have to worry about money matters. In spite of his ability to achieve success he will be modest concerning himself and his achievements."
WOMEN: "...she will possess a modest, clean, wholesome and admirable character. She will have an inherent respect and admiration for older people, particularly her parents, but she will be independent of them, because of her ability to earn her own living and to make her own career... A capable and self-sufficient person."

2. MID-ARIES/Bharani (Venus: 13°20-26°40' Aries, 39 Arietis). "A very vital character, a quality which quite often leads this individual into all sorts of trouble because other people are apt to be jealous resentful anD antagonistic to him. the morals of this man are not above reproach..."
WOMEN: "...a rather quarrelsome and treacherous nature. She will have a tendency towards wicked, vicious and envious thoughts regarding other women, particularly. To her husband and friends, she will be arrogant and overbearing. Underneath it all she is cold, shrewd and calculating."

3. PLEIADES/Krittika (Sun: 26°40' Aries - 10°00' Taurus). "A proud, dignified and honorable person - an executive type. He is very ambitious and eager for power and has the ability to achieve his desires. He has an innate sense of the importance of his destiny. He expects everything to come to him as his due and usually gets what he sets out to obtain."
WOMEN: "...weak constitution and rather given to chronic ailments particularly coughs, colds and asthma; a tendency to be morbid and depressed and yet easily excited as the result of a very nervous temperament. She will no doubt live by herself away from her family, as she prefers to indulge her own whims and wishes and will brook no interference with her desires. She has a very jealous disposition and is difficult to please."

4. ALDEBARAN/Rohini (Moon: 10°00'-23°20' Taurus, Alpha Tauri). "...has a critical and analytical turn of mind. His critical attitude toward everything and everybody develops, unless checked, into a disposition to find fault continually. He is inordinately fond of the opposite sex, but although he may at first be blind to the faults of the object of is devotion, a time will come eventually when his fault-finding propensities will exert themselves even in this direction."
WOMEN:
[Long passage on physical beauty, then] "...she will have a keen intellect; she will be an interesting conversationalist, good at discussion and repartee, yet withal an attentive and interested listener - she will be devoted to her parents and her domestic life should be very happy, because her personal inclinations will be clean, honest and upright."

5. MEISSA/Mraga (Mars: 23°20' Taurus - 6°40' Gemini, Lambda Orionis). "Unless other testimonies in the chart predominate to modify the effect of Mraga rising, these people may be very unpleasant characters. They are inclined to be misanthropic in their attitude toward life and people. They seem always to see the worst side of people and of conditions. They are suspicious of other peoples' motives and their own thoughts are inclined to be evil and even vicious at times. Unless checked, these thoughts will lead to vicious action and they can be quite dangerous to others whom they dislike. Possibly this attitude is caused and aggravated by some permanent organic disability which is usually the lot of those who are born with Mraga rising."
WOMEN: "Usually this person is born in a wealthy family or at least well-to-do. She will be brought up in a religious atmosphere and will be deeply religious herself. She is an entertaining and interesting speaker and will participate in women's club activities and other social enterprises. If she adopts a public career, she will be successful and honored. She is fond of beautiful clothes, perfumes and jewels, and dresses elegantly and in good taste."

6. BETELGEUSE/Ardra (Rahu: 6°40'-20°00' Gemini, Alpha Orionis). "...a healthy, robust... nature. The attitude and outlook of this individual is entirely physical. Mental effort is foreign to him. He depends entirely on his muscles and his body to meet the demands of existence. Such being the case, laborers, professional athletes and other persons whose occupations are wholly physical may be found to have Ardra rising. Since such people are invariably exploited by those whose mental abilities are greater than theirs, it is extremely unlikely that they will be wealthy or even well-to-do. In fact, poverty is predominant among them."
WOMEN: "A critical fault finding disposition is apparently conferred... Her disagreeable disposition coupled with a sarcastic manner and speech, makes it difficult for other people to tolerate her although she is extremely clever in her conversation and many people will be impressed by her speech while still disliking her. She is extravagant to the point of wastefulness, but on herself rather than on others, although at times she will be grudgingly generous to those with whom she comes in contact. She has weak lungs and should be careful of colds and coughs, as there is a tendency towards tuberculosis."

7. CASTOR/Punavasu (Jupiter: 20°00' Gemini - 3°20' Cancer, Alpha Geminorum). "...the native is possessed of profound intelligence, capable of delving into and understanding all manner of philosophical and metaphysical postulates. He revels in abstract thought and has a lively and profound imagination. He may be also a poet of high attainment, expressing a fire and vitality in his verse which is the result of an unusually passionate temperament. He will, however, be only moderately successful by world standards during his lifetime although unlike Ardra he will not experience poverty."
WOMEN: "This person will be successful in everything she undertakes. If she elects to have a career of her own she will become very well known and highly respected. If she marries, she will have a husband and children who adore her and her domestic life will be most happy. Her house will be orderly and well kept, as she is very particular and discriminating, and insists on beautiful and harmonious surroundings for herself and family. Her health is good except that she will suffer from gastric complaints and must be careful in her diet."

8. ASSELLI/Pushya (Saturn: 3°20-16°40' Cancer). "An earnest, thoughtful character, intelligent and quite religious in his outlook. Quite often a regular attendant at church services and a supporter of church and religious activities. Withal, he is possessed of the qualities which make for success in the material world, and has the ability to rise in position and to command the respect of his associates. He will fill a position of executive requirements and be admired and respected by his immediate family."
WOMEN: "Distinctly the club-woman type is found here. She is well read, cultured and active in all community and social affairs. In her home she entertains and is fond of indoor games, bridge parties and social gatherings at which she is a charming and capable hostess. She will have her own money or her husband will be generous in his allowances to her and she will spend much of it on church and club activities and with charitable organizations. If she cares to adopt some public career she will become very well known."

9. HYDRA/Ashlesha (Mercury: 16°40' Cancer - 0°00' Leo). "The outstanding characteristic of these people is their rather unpleasant and unsociable disposition. They are awkward and gauche in their manners and are not quick to profit by their mistakes because of their inability to adapt themselves to their surroundings and their apparent reluctance to be gracious or kind to others. This attitude militates against success in life and is a barrier to progress. These people should live less introspectively and learn to appreciate the good in other people. They should cultivate the habit of doing things for others."
WOMEN: "This person is careless and unclean about herself and the manner in which she dresses... [Details about physical deformity and blemishes.] She... is rather miserable and unhappy. She has a secretive rather bitter nature and is somewhat harsh and unkind in her dealings with others where opportunity presents itself. If she cultivated kindness and tact, her shortcomings might be forgotten by those with whom she comes in contact but her attitude and appearance are not conducive to popularity."
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Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras - Nos. 10-18

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:37 pm

10. REGULUS/Magha (Ketu: 0°00-13°20' Leo, Alpha Leonis). "A proud but not an arrogant nature - poised, self-contained, and dignified. This man will command respect because of his quiet dignity of manner and bearing. His position in his community will be secure and his financial standing sound. His weakness, however, is his susceptibility to the blandishments of the opposite sex and he must avoid entanglements which might lead to a loss of dignity, since in this man, such a loss would be a tragedy."
WOMEN: "A frank and courageous nature and a charming and interesting character... Unfortunately these very attributes seem to engender envy on the part of others less fortunately bequeathed. As a result this person is subject to barbs of gossip and all through her life has many secret enemies who are jealous of her in one way or another. This in spite of the fact that hers is essentially an honorable and virtuous character not given to either thought or action which should bring slander or scandal. She is particularly loyal to her family and will do anything to make them happy. As a result of tis, her actions are often misconstrued and used against her by her enemies."

11. ZOSMA/Purva Phalguni (Venus: 13°20-26°40' Leo, Delta Leonis). "A physical rather than a mental type. A health constitution not given to worry or anxiety regarding the problems of living. He must guard against impulsiveness since he is apt to act without sufficient thought and as a result he makes many mistakes which are difficult to rectify and which may be disastrous. He is is very active physically and will be proficient at various sports, reveling in the joy of mere action, even purposeless action. These people seem never to rest and are constantly in motion. As soon as they have finished one thing they start on another, frequently doing several things at a time."
WOMEN: "...a quiet, well modulated voice, soft and cultured. She is modest and unassuming but has a strong and fine character beneath her quiet demeanor. Very hospitable and sociable she likes to meet people and is interested in what they have to say and in their troubles. She likes to sew or to embroider and is often occupied with such tasks. She also is keenly interested in occult subjects and likes to listen to discussions on these matters ad to read about them. She is scrupulous in her obligations and a favour done to her will always be repayed promptly with something else added."

12. DENEBOLA/Uttara Phalguni (Sun: 26°40' Leo 10°00' Virgo, Beta Leonis). "A proud and arrogant disposition, with a tendency to ride rough shod over other peoples [sic] opinions. Uttara natives are extremely intelligent but because of their inordinate pride they accept favors ungraciously even when in need and are ungrateful to those from whom they receive these favors."
WOMEN: "A joyous healthy disposition yet quietly so. She has a very soft and pleasing voice, bubbling over with fun and humor. She is born to a family with social background and loves to mingle with her friends in various social activities yet she is not frivolous, but beneath her joyous manner, rather serious minded. She has fixed principles from which she will not deviate. She prefers to choose her friends from among people who are artistically inclined and cultured. She is efficient and adept at managing her home and her domestic life."

13. CORVUS/Hasta (Moon: 10°00'-23°20' Virgo). "These people are clever, witty and entertaining. They like social contacts and are particularly fond of the company of the opposite sex. When in trouble go to Hasta persons but do not try to pull the wool over their eyes as they are extremely clever and will see through any deceit. They are very likable and are good company..."
WOMEN: "A rather good natured, lazy character with a tendency to bursts of effort. If work becomes necessary to her comfort she will tackle any hard task cheerfully and with zest in order to get it done. But she prefers to be lazy whenever she can... A jolly disposition seldom angry and quick to forgive any slight or injury or wrong done to her. She is apt to suffer from chronic rheumatism and piles and should be careful in her diet; she should never over-eat."

14. SPICA/Chitra (Mars: 23°20' Virgo - 6°40' Libra, Alpha VIrginis). "Chitra natives are quiet, thoughtful and profound. Very slow in movement and of great dignity in bearing and manner. They like to read books on serious and philosophical subjects and make good students in their youth. They are extremely clever with their hands, which are strong, supple and dexterous. They like to do things or fashion things with their hands and could be sculptors or artists or surgeons."
WOMEN: "An expensive and luxurious person. One who is fond of clothes and beautiful surroundings and revels in them. She spends much money on jewels, perfumes, cosmetics and her taste in these matters is expensive. She likes to change costumes several times a day and always looks like an animated fashion plate. Variety is the spice of life to this woman and she will be inconstant and fickle in love affairs, having many during her life and marrying often. Many actresses, musicians, artists and opera singers..."

15. ARCTURUS/Swati (Rahu: 6°40-20°00' Libra, Alpha Boots). "Indicative of a slow and deliberative character, almost ponderous in thought and action yet intelligent and logical. While he may be slower at arriving at conclusions than most people, on final analysis his reasoning is sound and his conclusions more accurate than others who may be more brilliant. He is very religious somewhat orthodox and his environment permitting will attend church regularly or at any rate participate in some religious activity. Many priests or ministers are found... [a claim he specifically made about it rising]."
WOMEN: "This woman has a truthful honest straight forward character. She can be identified by her speech and by her manner of walking. Her gait and speech are rather heavy and ponderous, at least deliberate and purposeful. She has a very friendly disposition and is popular with her own sex. She will marry into a large family and she will be very devoted to her husband."

16. THE SCALES/Vishaka (Jupiter: 20°00' Libra - 3°20' Scorpio, Alpha & Beta Librae). "The key note... is aggressiveness and impatience. These people are overbearing in their desire to get things done. They are very active but not popular, since their manner causes people to actively dislike them and to resent their extreme aggressiveness. They are very proud and because of this, they take offence easily at some fancied slight and their anger makes enemies of people who might cooperate with them if treated differently. They will overcome their enemies through sheer force of character but such people will still remain enemies. Tact and kindness are qualities which they should try to develop."
WOMEN: "...delicate features and a soft pleasing voice. But do not let these deceive you. Underneath she has a strong character even hard at times. She will always follow her own inclinations and is not amenable to advice from others. She will be distinctly appealing to the opposite sex and will make a very fortunate marriage. Her husband will be well-to-do if not wealthy and she will have few if any children, not more than two. She will be fond of travel and change and will travel much with her husband."

17. ACRAB/Anuradha (Saturn: 3°20'-16°40' Scorpio, Beta Scorpii). "Usually robust and healthy, yet... gets very little enjoyment out of life. Probably because he consciously strives after happiness but with continual discontent and bitterness in his heart. He has a deep secretive nature and because of his attitude and outlook on life he is somewhat unscrupulous. 'A sweet tongue but poison in his heart,' aptly characterizes him."
WOMEN: "A gay and fun loving type, clever and witty. She will always be surrounded by an admiring circle of friends and her popularity will cause envy and malice among those who are not included in this circle. Her married and domestic life will be very happy and she will be devoted to and be faithful to her husband [barring contrary astrological indications] in which case although she loves her husband some misunderstanding will result in a divorce."

18. ANTARES/Jyestha (Mercury: 16°40' Scorpio - 0°00' Sagittarius). "A dark and secretive nature... Such people are superficially religious but are hypocrites at heart. On the surface they are respectable, law abiding citizens, ostensible church goers but secretly their morals are loose and their tempers are passionate. Smooth, oily and suave to all appearances, they carry in their hearts schemes and thoughts which might not stand the light of day."
WOMEN: "This person is independent and self-sufficient, capable, dignified and proud. If she is not born in a wealthy or well-to-do family she will herself become wealthy through her own efforts. In such case her family will be dependent on her and she will be recognized as the head of the family. She is careful and canny regarding money matters. Being proud she has a tendency to dramatize herself and secretly glories in being the pivot or centre around which her family affairs revolve. She will at some time in her life occupy a very influential position and be greatly respected."
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Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras - Nos. 19-27

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm

19. WEI/Mula (Ketu-Rajas: 0°00'-13°20' Sagittarius, Epsilon Scorpii). "Corresponds with a shrewd and capable character - an organizer, who is able to handle people and make them serve his needs through tact and diplomacy. A politician. An orator who is capable of swaying his audiences yet who is not sincere but may even be unfaithful to his constituents and ungrateful and unappreciated of favors received if the occasion arises. The type of person who, while one is still in his presence holds one spellbound but who when he leaves also leaves a lurking distrust behind him. Extremely clever and capable."
WOMEN: "An unfortunate Asterism to have rising at birth in a Female Chart. Very little happiness throughout the life is the result..., due to the secret and destructive thoughts of the native and her proud and stubborn nature. To understand this is a help. But a determined effort must be made to rectify it. The fault lies entirely within herself, her nature preventing her from being happy in any relationship. She will have many love affairs and trouble through them. If she marries she will be unhappy because of her inability to compromise and her husband will die in seven years from the time of the marriage. She has a weak constitution and her health will be uncertain, due again to the destructive thoughts which she harbours continually."

20. KAUS MEDIA/Purvashadha (Venus: 13°20'-26°40' Sagittarius, Delta Sagittarii). "...rather a low type of character. One who does not wish for and does not get the gracious things out of life. Stupid, yet ostentatious and vulgar, with very few educational advantages. Quarrelsome and loud in appearance and manner. While he must, because of educational handicaps, go through life as a servant or at best an underling, he vainly considers himself above his station in life and will be harsh and domineering but intellectual if put in authority."
WOMEN: "She has a generous positive character and should be successful in some occupation which would enable her to employ her natural ability as an organizer and manager. She is apt to have been born in an influential family."

21. ASCELLA/Uttarashadha (Sun: 26°40' Sagittarius - 10°00' Capricorn, Zeta Sagittarii). "A very good, honest and sincere character... A peace loving disposition. Very intelligent and wise. Respected and liked by everyone with whom he comes in contact. Eager to live and let live. Tolerant to others, giving help where help is required. A good counsellor in times of need or trouble. Such a person makes a good and steady friend, whose friendship is to be valued because it will stand the tests of time and adversity."
WOMEN: "...a contented nature. She is one who is interested in forming societies and clubs, and who makes a good manager and organizer. She is fluent in speech, forceful and logical in writing. She is extremely devoted to her husband."

22. ALTAIR/Shravan (Moon: 10°00'-23°20' Capricorn, Alpha Aquilae). "An excellent character, the key note to which is kind heartedness and generosity, particularly to those less fortunate than himself. This man will always be able to accumulate the good things of life without injuring anyone else to do so. He will be disposed to share his belongings with the poor and needy. The extent of his activities in this direction, will of course depend on his station in life. Many social workers and philanthropists have this Asterism rising. He is also very religious and will participate in church activities if his environment permits."
WOMEN: "This denotes a charitable and benevolent person of strength of character and calmness of demeanor. She gives courage to others. The nervous and needy come to her for help, and get it. These women make good designers and interior decorators."

23. SUALOCIN/Dhanishta (Mars: 23°20' Capricorn to 6°40' Aquarius, Alpha Delphini). "Two entirely different types are born... It depends on the part of this Asterism [he speaks of rising, but we're here to see if the interpretations generalize to Moon] as to which type predominates. The key notes of both are optimism and ambition..."
The part in Capricorn: "A heavy eater. Has a very revengeful disposition. Likes hunting and shooting game; is very rash and courts danger. Likes large enterprises. Is a man's man and has very little use or respect for the opposite sex. Marriage a pastime and extramarital affairs numerous. Is arrogant, fond of fighting, and may be homo-sexual in his tendencies. Kidnappers often found here." [Wow! Considering that this is the zone of the exaltation degree of Mars, which has repeatedly shown itself to be an intensely martial few degrees of the zodiac, this, at least in theory, is pretty amazing.]
The part in Aquarius: "May be an Astrologer or Astronomer. Is generous and of very good character. Loves music. Cultivates the society of actors and acresses."
WOMEN: "This is a talkative and interesting person, particularly successful in lecturing and debating. She is capable of writing mystic novels and is good at story telling. She will be happy in domestic life. She loves nice dresses, especially blue, pink and purple, and likes curios and antiques."

24. SADACHBIA/Shatataraka (Rahu: 6°40-20°00' Aquarius). "A quiet unassuming person, thoughtful and meditative yet given to sudden outbursts of temper. Lives in the mental world rather than in the physical. Prefers solitude to the company of others. Does not are for small talk and finds social contacts rather tiresome. A light eater and moderate in most things. Many astrologers and philosophers..."
WOMEN: "A person who is controlled in her emotions. She is not easily angered. Her own sex respects her. She is attached to her relatives and beloved by her elders. She will always maintain a good and respectable position in the community."

25. MARKAB/Purva Bhadrapada (Jupiter: 20°00' Aquarius to 3°20' Pisces). "These people are high strung and nervous in temperament. They are not very strong constitutionally. They are rather grave and serious in demeanor and are more interested in the discussion of serious topics than in trivial matters. They belong to the Mental Group and are by no means orthodox, preferring to arrive at their believes through a process of logical reasoning."
WOMEN: "This woman is usually born in a rich family, or she marries wealth. She likes to be identified with cultural activities and is extremely influential in the community in which she moves. She likes reading, and is a good judge of character."

26. ALGENIB/Uttara Bhadrapada (Saturn: 3°20'-16°40' Pisces). "This Asterism is the most fortunate one to have... It usually indicates a man of means, well-to-do if not wealthy. A man who owns property and has the ability to earn money and also to spend it wisely and constructively. Being a passive type, his well being ma be inherited or bequeathed to him but if he achieves his own success he will do so without the corollary of someone else's misfortune. He is very intelligent and is charitable and generous to those less fortunate than himself."
WOMEN: "...affectionate to her husband. She is generous and is a good helper in bad circumstances. Her nature is forgiving. She is careful in any work she undertakes. She never indulges in silly or irrelevant discussions and will always answer straight to the point."

27. ZETA PISCIUM/Revati (Mercury: 16°40' Pisces - 0°00' Aries). "They are fond of their family and friends and very sociable and hospitable. They at not be born to wealth but they have the ability to accumulate the good things of life through their own efforts and usually will. They will know how to enjoy wisely and well the fruits of their endeavors. These people are wise and intelligent and make excellent counsellors to those who are in trouble or are in a dilemma over some problem of life." [It seems no asterism is so praised for its physical beauty. I wonder how much this arises out of observations around the degree of Venus' exaltation.]
WOMEN: "...The native is a person of clean morals and is popular with her own sex. She is fond of pets and animals. She is a very good housekeeper, and likes interior decoration and design. Her face is laughing..."
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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm

(March 11, 2017)

I have the core information here. I'll keep supplementing it for a while, but there is enough basic stuff here that I've unlocked the thread for discussion.
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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:39 pm

Arena wrote:I find the distinction between men and women quite off-putting in many of those.
I know they are not your own, but this kind of astrological text that makes statements depending on whether the entity has a penis or vagina is to me just not of good quality. From an astrological perspective we would of course expect similar characteristics in both male and female entities with same placements, and other kind of characteristics would then come from other kind of placements or aspects.

Sorry, but that's just me - had to be said.

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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:39 pm

Oh, I pretty much agree with you - as I hope my initial notes above indicate.

However, in making available test interpretations, it didn't seem right to exclude half the content, even when I think the other half is more generalizable. (That's a theory to be tested.)

Remember, we don't really know if any of this is valid - not just the particular interpretive content, but the whole idea of a 27-fold division of the ecliptic. I've not been able to device any statistical test over the last several decades of on-and-off trying to confirm this, and thought the first layer off the top might be to see if we even get subjective assessment hits, i.e., does it seem to us that these interpretations are more or less correct for most people we know with Moon in these zones. If we think it is... well, that doesn't prove anything definitive, but gives us a start. More interestingly, if we truly think these do not apply (even given the elasticity of such subjective assessments), then there probably isn't any need to dig further.

If (and, so far, it's a big "if") there is something substantial to this 27-fold divisioning, and these interpretations are mostly fitting, then of course dividing them into stark male vs. female interpretations won't hold up - especially in the west and in modern times. However, it isn't at all unreasonable that people with identical traits but in drastically different conditions could have different typical outcomes. Consider two people with similar charts but one is in prison for life and the other is free. Or one is enormously wealthy and healthy, and the other impoverished and frail. (You can make up other conditions.) For most of the world's history (including the U.S. to within half a century ago), men and women have been in such different pockets of opportunity and social expectation that they have been living in effectively different worlds; and this continues to be true in (I'm guessing) about a third of the world's countries today. Imagine a horoscope of powerful political ambition and outspoken dynamism shared by two Iranians, one male and one female - the actual life outcome will be hugely different.

With the Iranians, in one case, a typically correct male interpretation would be politically motivated and powerful; a typically correct female interpretation would be supports her husband, attentive to family matters, or dead.

If we determine that there is, in fact, something to these interpretations, then we need to scrutinize the offered interpretations to see what underlying traits - deeper than the surface - would produce the different socially-visible outcomes between a man and a woman in historic India. That would give us insight into the observers, and thus into their observations.
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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:40 pm

TheScales_BothWays wrote:Thank you for sharing these interpretations, Jim. These were very insightful and interesting to read. :D

Since I'm a Dhanishta/Avittam myself, (I have my Capricorn Moon in that nakshatra) so I suppose you'd be interested on whether do I resonate with it's given interpretations.
Jim Eshelman wrote:The part in Capricorn: "A heavy eater. Has a very revengeful disposition. Likes hunting and shooting game; is very rash and courts danger. Likes large enterprises. Is a man's man and has very little use or respect for the opposite sex. Marriage a pastime and extramarital affairs numerous. Is arrogant, fond of fighting, and may be homo-sexual in his tendencies. Kidnappers often found here."
I eat well, though not really heavily so. My father (who has the Moon at the same degree as mine) is considerably so.
My "revengeful disposition" could be well-explained by my Libra Sun too.
Not fond of hunting, shooting and courting danger though (perhaps this is my Libra Sun too).
I'm rather indifferent about enterprises in general, if Shil-Ponde was talking about business.
I am actually intimidated if I come across a highly-educated, independent woman, and can be really great friends with charming, friendly women. Though I may admit that I may be of little use to women.
As a Libra, marriage is way more significant than a pastime for me! :)
Only arrogant when frustrated and at times when cornered. I don't like that side of me. :oops:
Too scared of being hurt (physically, and emotionally if it involves a cared one) to start a fight TBH. Again, my Libra Sun.
Yeah, I'm gay. :mrgreen: That could be testified by my Venus-Pluto square too, though.

Marilyn Monroe has the Moon in this asterism too; any correlation of these traits to her?

I'll also have a peek to the interpretation of the Aquarian part of Dhanishta as well for curiosity's sake:
Jim Eshelman wrote:The part in Aquarius: "May be an Astrologer or Astronomer. Is generous and of very good character. Loves music. Cultivates the society of actors and actresses."
These sound more like the general interpretation of Dhanishta by Indian astrologers, some even say that those born in this lunar mansion have the potential to learn all 64 arts and skills known in the Vedas. :?
Well I am currently practising astrology, and am (or at least was) an enthusiast of astronomy. :D
Yeah I can be generous if I have the money to donate. ;)
I really do love music!
I am fairly interested in acting too—my angular Jupiter-Neptune square?

Since these interpretations were meant for the rising nakshatra, I thought it wouldn't be wrong to read the interpretation for Pushya/Poosam too, since I have Pushya rising:
Jim Eshelman wrote:ASSELLI/Pushya (Saturn: 3°20-16°40' Cancer). "An earnest, thoughtful character, intelligent and quite religious in his outlook. Quite often a regular attendant at church services and a supporter of church and religious activities. Withal, he is possessed of the qualities which make for success in the material world, and has the ability to rise in position and to command the respect of his associates. He will fill a position of executive requirements and be admired and respected by his immediate family."
WOMEN: "Distinctly the club-woman type is found here. She is well read, cultured and active in all community and social affairs. In her home she entertains and is fond of indoor games, bridge parties and social gatherings at which she is a charming and capable hostess. She will have her own money or her husband will be generous in his allowances to her and she will spend much of it on church and club activities and with charitable organizations. If she cares to adopt some public career she will become very well known."
Am fairly religious, though more spiritual than the former. I go to the temple every once in a while, especially during important religious days.
The latter part I'm not mature enough to tell is that true for me, though it does make me feel good while reading it. :mrgreen:
I can certainly feel myself agreeing to the "women's interpretation" if I was born and raised in historical India. ;)

The above interpretation for Pushya sounds very Jupiterian to me, and it's pleasing to know that it's the nakshatra of Jupiter's exaltation. :D
Jim Eshelman wrote: WEI/Mula (Ketu-Rajas: 0°00'-13°20' Sagittarius, Epsilon Scorpii). "Corresponds with a shrewd and capable character - an organizer, who is able to handle people and make them serve his needs through tact and diplomacy. A politician. An orator who is capable of swaying his audiences yet who is not sincere but may even be unfaithful to his constituents and ungrateful and unappreciated of favors received if the occasion arises. The type of person who, while one is still in his presence holds one spellbound but who when he leaves also leaves a lurking distrust behind him. Extremely clever and capable."
The above fairly fits my mother, but she's faithful, AFAIK her to be (she has a Virgo Sun and stellium too). She knows how to talk alright. Most Sag Moons I know in fact are good in using their mouth. Diplomatic, not in the charming Libran sense, but more in way that it sometimes seem "political" or "following cultural norms," like being respectful to elders, women, etc. hence it may not seem sincere and has a strong hint of obsequiousness, not to the point of submission though. A Sagittarius Moon would never want to be a slave.

Some other comments:
Some of the interpretations for the nakshatras actually sound like interpretations of the signs that these nakshatras span to, e.g. take a look into the nakshatras that Libra contains:
Jim Eshelman wrote:14. SPICA/Chitra (Mars: 23°20' Virgo - 6°40' Libra, Alpha VIrginis). "Chitra natives are quiet, thoughtful and profound. Very slow in movement and of great dignity in bearing and manner. They like to read books on serious and philosophical subjects and make good students in their youth. They are extremely clever with their hands, which are strong, supple and dexterous. They like to do things or fashion things with their hands and could be sculptors or artists or surgeons."
Green is what I find Virgoan, orange for those I find both Virgo and Libran.
15. ARCTURUS/Swati (Rahu: 6°40-20°00' Libra, Alpha Boots). "Indicative of a slow and deliberative character, almost ponderous in thought and action yet intelligent and logical. While he may be slower at arriving at conclusions than most people, on final analysis his reasoning is sound and his conclusions more accurate than others who may be more brilliant..."
This really sounds like a wise but cautious Libra to me, especially if the "conclusions" are created from the arguments of points of others on a specific matter.
16. THE SCALES/Vishaka (Jupiter: 20°00' Libra - 3°20' Scorpio, Alpha & Beta Librae). "The key note... is aggressiveness and impatience. These people are overbearing in their desire to get things done. They are very active but not popular, since their manner causes people to actively dislike them and to resent their extreme aggressiveness. They are very proud and because of this, they take offence easily at some fancied slight and their anger makes enemies of people who might cooperate with them if treated differently. They will overcome their enemies through sheer force of character but such people will still remain enemies. Tact and kindness are qualities which they should try to develop."
Strong hints of Scorpio are in here, even though this nakshatra has most of its span in Libra! Why advise a Libra to develop tact and kindness when these are natural to them?
Jim Eshelman wrote:MID-ARIES/Bharani (Venus: 13°20-26°40' Aries, 39 Arietis). "A very vital character, a quality which quite often leads this individual into all sorts of trouble because other people are apt to be jealous resentful and antagonistic to him. the morals of this man are not above reproach..."
WOMEN: "...a rather quarrelsome and treacherous nature. She will have a tendency towards wicked, vicious and envious thoughts regarding other women, particularly. To her husband and friends, she will be arrogant and overbearing. Underneath it all she is cold, shrewd and calculating."
Interesting, considering that Bharani is considered an auspicious star by most Indian astrologers! (Especially those from South India.) There's a Tamil saying that goes, "Those of Bharani will rule countries many!" This nakshatra is usually known for its vitality, courage, notably outspoken behaviour, but they're also determined, success-oriented and are said to be best performed in positions of power. (Exaltation of the Sun?)
I've also heard a Malayali saying that goes "When it comes to Bharani, it's either a full jar or an empty jar." Apparently "Bharani" also means "kitchen jar" in Malayalam. This seems to hint a possible "all or nothing" behaviour in Aries, which may be ruled by "all or nothing" Pluto.

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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:41 pm

FlorencedeZ. wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Florence, did you find a way to search for lunar mansions themselves in SF? I haven't found this yet. Please share.
Or perhaps you just mean you paged through your chart collection? In any case, could you give specifics on which interpretations you found accurate, and whatever else you want to share about them?
Hi Jim, yes, I paged through my chart collection only as I couldn't find a way to search for lunar mansions themselves in SF either.

What I found remarkable was that my file shows quite a few of my closest male collegues, people I happen to know quite well, and well known people here have the rising nakshatra in:
ANTARES/Jyestha (Mercury: 16°40' Scorpio - 0°00' Sagittarius). "A dark and secretive nature... Such people are superficially religious but are hypocrites at heart. On the surface they are respectable, law abiding citizens, ostensible church goers but secretly their morals are loose and their tempers are passionate. Smooth, oily and suave to all appearances, they carry in their hearts schemes and thoughts which might not stand the light of day."

This group of people from my point of view all share these traits to a T. Many of these have the Sidereal Moon in Sagittarius b.t.w.

Another group, both men and women, that was quite striking was the rising nakshatra in:

HYDRA/Ashlesha (Mercury: 16°40' Cancer - 0°00' Leo). "The outstanding characteristic of these people is their rather unpleasant and unsociable disposition. They are awkward and gauche in their manners and are not quick to profit by their mistakes because of their inability to adapt themselves to their surroundings and their apparent reluctance to be gracious or kind to others. This attitude militates against success in life and is a barrier to progress. These people should live less introspectively and learn to appreciate the good in other people. They should cultivate the habit of doing things for others."
WOMEN: "This person is careless and unclean about herself and the manner in which she dresses... [Details about physical deformity and blemishes.] She... is rather miserable and unhappy. She has a secretive rather bitter nature and is somewhat harsh and unkind in her dealings with others where opportunity presents itself. If she cultivated kindness and tact, her shortcomings might be forgotten by those with whom she comes in contact but her attitude and appearance are not conducive to popularity."

Especially the men in my files are all (no exception) extremely selfish and inconsiderate. (as a Libra I find this hard to the point that it can physically hurt)

This all may not be a big deal. I just found it to be quite remarkable because of the similarities.
Regards,
Flo

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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:41 pm

Danica wrote:A brief assessment for Lunar position in Nakshatras as described here - I have 19 people for observation at the moment (not near my computer; criterion for choosing these 19: I know the people well and know their Moon positions without looking up in Solar Fire)
I'll mark the gender with (f) and (m)
1.SHERATAN/Aswini (Ketu: 0°00-13°20' Aries, Beta Arietis). "This indicates a happy carefree disposition, very intelligent, in fact rather above the average person in this respect. He will be quite successful and his financial status will be such that he will seldom have to worry about money matters. In spite of his ability to achieve success he will be modest concerning himself and his achievements."
WOMEN: "...she will possess a modest, clean, wholesome and admirable character. She will have an inherent respect and admiration for older people, particularly her parents, but she will be independent of them, because of her ability to earn her own living and to make her own career... A capable and self-sufficient person."
V.C. (f) - definitely capable and self-sufficient: in her late 20s left her family and home and went to another country, alone, into the unknown, and built her life there from nothing; seems modest, but there is huge pride underneath that; respects older people and parents very much.
T.T. (f) - also definitely capable and self-sufficient; authentically modest; a balanced character and good communicator; respects the older, but keeps her independence from parents.
3.PLEIADES/Krittika (Sun: 26°40' Aries - 10°00' Taurus). "A proud, dignified and honorable person - an executive type. He is very ambitious and eager for power and has the ability to achieve his desires. He has an innate sense of the importance of his destiny. He expects everything to come to him as his due and usually gets what he sets out to obtain."
WOMEN: "...weak constitution and rather given to chronic ailments particularly coughs, colds and asthma; a tendency to be morbid and depressed and yet easily excited as the result of a very nervous temperament. She will no doubt live by herself away from her family, as she prefers to indulge her own whims and wishes and will brook no interference with her desires. She has a very jealous disposition and is difficult to please."
M.P. (f) - the male description fits her very well; self-organized, strong will, strong physical constitution, executive, self-confident. The fem. descript. is a total miss.
4.ALDEBARAN/Rohini (Moon: 10°00'-23°20' Taurus, Alpha Tauri). "...has a critical and analytical turn of mind. His critical attitude toward everything and everybody develops, unless checked, into a disposition to find fault continually. He is inordinately fond of the opposite sex, but although he may at first be blind to the faults of the object of is devotion, a time will come eventually when his fault-finding propensities will exert themselves even in this direction."
WOMEN: [Long passage on physical beauty, then] "...she will have a keen intellect; she will be an interesting conversationalist, good at discussion and repartee, yet withal an attentive and interested listener - she will be devoted to her parents and her domestic life should be very happy, because her personal inclinations will be clean, honest and upright."
J.T. (f) - mostly accurate, both male and fem. descr.; she is prone to criticize, but is very diplomatic and has a gentle manner; physically beautiful; excellent conversationalist; but domestic life not very happy (according to her own perception)
5. MEISSA/Mraga (Mars: 23°20' Taurus - 6°40' Gemini, Lambda Orionis). "Unless other testimonies in the chart predominate to modify the effect of Mraga rising, these people may be very unpleasant characters. They are inclined to be misanthropic in their attitude toward life and people. They seem always to see the worst side of people and of conditions. They are suspicious of other peoples' motives and their own thoughts are inclined to be evil and even vicious at times. Unless checked, these thoughts will lead to vicious action and they can be quite dangerous to others whom they dislike. Possibly this attitude is caused and aggravated by some permanent organic disability which is usually the lot of those who are born with Mraga rising."
WOMEN: "Usually this person is born in a wealthy family or at least well-to-do. She will be brought up in a religious atmosphere and will be deeply religious herself. She is an entertaining and interesting speaker and will participate in women's club activities and other social enterprises. If she adopts a public career, she will be successful and honored. She is fond of beautiful clothes, perfumes and jewels, and dresses elegantly and in good taste."
V.T. (f) - she can be unpleasant (and is usually overbearing to most), and occasionally focuses on the worst side of people/situation, but I wouldn't say this is her predominant life-attitude; a lot of pride, need to present herself as being Right in every situation, and tends to speak a lot about other people's faults and mistakes and use that as opportunity to show herself as better-then.
From descr. for fem., everything fits her very well, except the religious upbringing.
K.K. (f) - all I said for V.T. stands for her too; overall, the descript. for both sexes is fitting , except for the relig. upbring.
P.P. (m) - a definite kind-of-misanthropic tendency, which even clearly shows in his face
R.M. (m) - quite the opposite of what is said! has a naivete in relating to people, and a pure heart
9. HYDRA/Ashlesha (Mercury: 16°40' Cancer - 0°00' Leo). "The outstanding characteristic of these people is their rather unpleasant and unsociable disposition. They are awkward and gauche in their manners and are not quick to profit by their mistakes because of their inability to adapt themselves to their surroundings and their apparent reluctance to be gracious or kind to others. This attitude militates against success in life and is a barrier to progress. These people should live less introspectively and learn to appreciate the good in other people. They should cultivate the habit of doing things for others."
WOMEN: "This person is careless and unclean about herself and the manner in which she dresses... [Details about physical deformity and blemishes.] She... is rather miserable and unhappy. She has a secretive rather bitter nature and is somewhat harsh and unkind in her dealings with others where opportunity presents itself. If she cultivated kindness and tact, her shortcomings might be forgotten by those with whom she comes in contact but her attitude and appearance are not conducive to popularity."
A.M.(f) - I'm astonished how accurate this actually is! - the psychological assessment, not the physical characteristics mentioned. I would not use those exact words to describe her, but this is one of the 2 persons who are loaded with negativity - sees danger, reason to worry and feels the need to "friendly warn" others about that in every situation and virtually every conversation; you can try to point their mind to the bright side, but there is always a "but..." that they will add and the lamentations with blaming this and that for their own life situation will continue, to no end. (I'm not sure about the position of the other person's Moon)
10. REGULUS/Magha (Ketu: 0°00-13°20' Leo, Alpha Leonis). "A proud but not an arrogant nature - poised, self-contained, and dignified. This man will command respect because of his quiet dignity of manner and bearing. His position in his community will be secure and his financial standing sound. His weakness, however, is his susceptibility to the blandishments of the opposite sex and he must avoid entanglements which might lead to a loss of dignity, since in this man, such a loss would be a tragedy."
B.T. (m) - mostly true, except for the "susceptibility to the blandishments of the opposite sex" part.
Myself - I consider it to be mostly true: the nice things he says are true, and the others are not :mrgreen: . I'm not financially sound-standing, though.
11. ZOSMA/Purva Phalguni (Venus: 13°20-26°40' Leo, Delta Leonis). "A physical rather than a mental type. A health constitution not given to worry or anxiety regarding the problems of living. He must guard against impulsiveness since he is apt to act without sufficient thought and as a result he makes many mistakes which are difficult to rectify and which may be disastrous. He is is very active physically and will be proficient at various sports, reveling in the joy of mere action, even purposeless action. These people seem never to rest and are constantly in motion. As soon as they have finished one thing they start on another, frequently doing several things at a time."
J.J. (m) - this is a complete miss; very intellectually-oriented person, body not prominently weak but not strong wither; does not like to engage in physical activities other than easy walk (hates sports, does not even ride his bicycle but walks it!). He has a restless mind; is not prone to finish what he started.
12. DENEBOLA/Uttara Phalguni (Sun: 26°40' Leo 10°00' Virgo, Beta Leonis). "A proud and arrogant disposition, with a tendency to ride rough shod over other peoples [sic] opinions. Uttara natives are extremely intelligent but because of their inordinate pride they accept favors ungraciously even when in need and are ungrateful to those from whom they receive these favors."
B.M. (m) - very proud, will not admit own mistake, emotionally closed and this is a pronounced trait, rarely speaks with open-hearted admiration about anyone or anything
14. SPICA/Chitra (Mars: 23°20' Virgo - 6°40' Libra, Alpha VIrginis). "Chitra natives are quiet, thoughtful and profound. Very slow in movement and of great dignity in bearing and manner. They like to read books on serious and philosophical subjects and make good students in their youth. They are extremely clever with their hands, which are strong, supple and dexterous. They like to do things or fashion things with their hands and could be sculptors or artists or surgeons."
S.K. (f) - moderately accurate, except for being "clever with hands", fro which the opposite is true. She is not very slow in movement, but the dignity is visible.
20. KAUS MEDIA/Purvashadha (Venus: 13°20'-26°40' Sagittarius, Delta Sagittarii). "...rather a low type of character. One who does not wish for and does not get the gracious things out of life. Stupid, yet ostentatious and vulgar, with very few educational advantages. Quarrelsome and loud in appearance and manner. While he must, because of educational handicaps, go through life as a servant or at best an underling, he vainly considers himself above his station in life and will be harsh and domineering but intellectual if put in authority."
WOMEN: "She has a generous positive character and should be successful in some occupation which would enable her to employ her natural ability as an organizer and manager. She is apt to have been born in an influential family."
M.K. (f) - the description for females fits her very well, the one for males is a total miss. Highly organized, aware of own goals from early age (professional and social and financial), and successful in working her way toward them.
22. ALTAIR/Shravan (Moon: 10°00'-23°20' Capricorn, Alpha Aquilae). "An excellent character, the key note to which is kind heartedness and generosity, particularly to those less fortunate than himself. This man will always be able to accumulate the good things of life without injuring anyone else to do so. He will be disposed to share his belongings with the poor and needy. The extent of his activities in this direction, will of course depend on his station in life. Many social workers and philanthropists have this Asterism rising. He is also very religious and will participate in church activities if his environment permits."
Z.V. (m) - moderately accurate; interested in social work, has an attitude of always wanting to help; but emphatically not religious.
I.P. (m) - pronounced generosity and kind-heartedness, though not interested in social work, nor would I give him the epithet philanthropist; spiritually-oriented, but practical.
26. ALGENIB/Uttara Bhadrapada (Saturn: 3°20'-16°40' Pisces). "This Asterism is the most fortunate one to have... It usually indicates a man of means, well-to-do if not wealthy. A man who owns property and has the ability to earn money and also to spend it wisely and constructively. Being a passive type, his well being ma be inherited or bequeathed to him but if he achieves his own success he will do so without the corollary of someone else's misfortune. He is very intelligent and is charitable and generous to those less fortunate than himself."
S.A. (f) - passive type - yes; wealthy - not; generous & charitable - yes. I'm unable to assess whether she makes wise investments /spends money constructively.
27. ZETA PISCIUM/Revati (Mercury: 16°40' Pisces - 0°00' Aries). "They are fond of their family and friends and very sociable and hospitable. They at not be born to wealth but they have the ability to accumulate the good things of life through their own efforts and usually will. They will know how to enjoy wisely and well the fruits of their endeavors. These people are wise and intelligent and make excellent counsellors to those who are in trouble or are in a dilemma over some problem of life." [It seems no asterism is so praised for its physical beauty. I wonder how much this arises out of observations around the degree of Venus' exaltation.]
E.S. (m) - Loves family and friends, and is very sociable and hospitable. Indeed accumulated good things (things of quality) during life through own effort; indulgent in all sensual pleasures; intelligent, and can give a wise counsel to others, though not able to do it for himself. Not physically beautiful, but has charm, and mannerism that is seductive.

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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:42 pm

Danica wrote:Though the sample is small, I have to say I am surprised with these findings - overall they lean much more toward accurate than not.
What is interesting is that the two examples that are a definite miss (R.M. and J.J.) are the sharp opposites of the given descriptions (not only "this is not true", but "the exact opposite is true").

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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:43 pm

Danica wrote:
Danica wrote:Though the sample is small, I have to say I am surprised with these findings - overall they lean much more toward accurate than not.
What is interesting is that the two examples that are a definite miss (R.M. and J.J.) are the sharp opposites of the given descriptions (not only "this is not true", but "the exact opposite is true").
Ha! - am at home and able to use SF.
R.M.'s Moon isn't in 5. MEISSA, but in 6. BETELGEUSE. This seems a better fit, though also not accurate. He is physically robust, and has an overall healthy approach to experiences; he is not predominantly physical type, but is an aesthetic type (photographer; sensitive to & appreciates the visual aspects of natural Beauty). The female description doesn't fit at all, he's not extravagant, nor disagreeable in conversation, and I've never heard a sarcastic word from him.

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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by By Jove » Mon May 08, 2017 8:46 pm

So Nakshatras apply most to Moon and Ascendant. No connection with the Sun?

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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 8:48 pm

By Jove wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 8:46 pm
So Nakshatras apply most to Moon and Ascendant. No connection with the Sun?
From most Hindu sources, just Moon. Shil-Ponde is unusual in attributing them to Ascendant.
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Re: Shil-Ponde on Nakhatras

Post by By Jove » Mon May 08, 2017 9:00 pm

I have a terrible Moon. :evil:
20. KAUS MEDIA/Purvashadha (Venus: 13°20'-26°40' Sagittarius, Delta Sagittarii). "...rather a low type of character. One who does not wish for and does not get the gracious things out of life. Stupid, yet ostentatious and vulgar, with very few educational advantages. Quarrelsome and loud in appearance and manner. While he must, because of educational handicaps, go through life as a servant or at best an underling, he vainly considers himself above his station in life and will be harsh and domineering but intellectual if put in authority."
And an even worse Ascendant. :evil:
5. MEISSA/Mraga (Mars: 23°20' Taurus - 6°40' Gemini, Lambda Orionis). "Unless other testimonies in the chart predominate to modify the effect of Mraga rising, these people may be very unpleasant characters. They are inclined to be misanthropic in their attitude toward life and people. They seem always to see the worst side of people and of conditions. They are suspicious of other peoples' motives and their own thoughts are inclined to be evil and even vicious at times. Unless checked, these thoughts will lead to vicious action and they can be quite dangerous to others whom they dislike. Possibly this attitude is caused and aggravated by some permanent organic disability which is usually the lot of those who are born with Mraga rising."

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