Question about the Fire triplicity

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Henrik Jansen

Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Henrik Jansen » Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:44 am

I have noticed that Leo, Sagittarius and Aries share two features in common besides being imperial and bossy. It is their love for organization and perfectionism. It is also their love for history. What do you make of this?

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:05 am

Henrik Jansen wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:44 am
I have noticed that Leo, Sagittarius and Aries share two features in common besides being imperial and bossy. It is their love for organization and perfectionism. It is also their love for history. What do you make of this?
I see "Fire" signs as a whole reflecting the highest expression of Jung's Sensation type - meaning, automatically valuing most the data that comes through their physical senses and, therefore, most anchored in the here-and-now, hands-on present. (Water signs most anchor in the past, Air signs in the future, and Earth signs integrating a continuity of time flow with concentration especially on origins and roots, then logical extrapolation of those origins into the present and continuing trajectory into the future).

Hands-on here-and-now responsiveness to what is coming through the senses IS the kind of commanding power these signs demonstrate.
Jim Eshelman
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Henrik Jansen

Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Henrik Jansen » Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:26 am

I see. Thanks for clearing everything. Also, I have noticed something similar in your summaries of Leo and Aries. You stated how Leo becomes a natural hub of attention and you also stated how Aries naturally gravitates towards celebrity status. Does this have to do with sharing Sun as a ruler.

Also, does this mean that Moon signs like Taurus and Cancer are more of the types who have to constantly toot their own horn for attention whereas Leo and Aries do not?

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Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:43 am

On Sun dignity: Yes, I think that's exactly it.

On Cancer and Taurus: Taurians aren't noted for tooting their own horns and Cancerians tend to do that most when they aren't getting attention they crave; but I think you're going in the right direction.

I think the difference between Taurus and Cancer here is that Taurus is otherwise dignified by Venus which has the highest affection needs and is especially attentive to others. Taurians are charming, gentle, gracious, kindly, amiable, and good-hearted, though, like Cancer, they can be utterly entertaining. They don't usually display braggadocio because they are earnest, forthright, almost compulsively truth-telling to the point where they can disadvantageously undersell themselves by their need to insist that they're not the new sliced bread.

Cancer's other dignified planet is Jupiter, which is reliant on acceptance and acknowledgement, to be externally affirmed in high standing, etc. Cancerians live on imagination. They

enhance and embellish, dramatize and entertain (think Jupiter for actors and masters of the stage). They need recognition and attention from others, thriving when it's positive and withering when it's negative. In contrast to solar beings, their lives and work are commonly inseminated by others: Their gift is to develop and deliver what they've received, and seem to need external confirmation that they are doing this well.

A stark difference between Taurus and Cancer is that Taurus doesn't go in for adornment. Bradley wrote about two friends, a Taurus and a Cancer (I've always thought this must have been himself and Gary Duncan) walking along a beach and finding two beautiful pieces of driftwood. The Taurus dusted it off and set it, just as it was, on a table for its innate beauty. The Cancer took it home and used it to dangle plastic beads, sparkly things, little birds and the like.
Jim Eshelman
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Henrik Jansen

Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Henrik Jansen » Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:13 pm

Interestingly, the popular networking site LinkedIn which is more or less a platform for others to brag about achievements was created by Reid Hoffman a double Cancer. That should tell you something. Also, the conception date of LinkedIn was around the Aries month (5 May 2003), and LinkedIn and Aries both share one thing in common - business.

Henrik Jansen

Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Henrik Jansen » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:00 pm

Hello Jim,
I was wondering, would you be fine with me create a list of traits for each triplicity and then have it be approved by you just like the list for quadruplicity traits in the link below. Or will you be thinking about doing this in the future?

https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36

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Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:10 pm

Henrik Jansen wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:00 pm
Hello Jim,
I was wondering, would you be fine with me create a list of traits for each triplicity and then have it be approved by you just like the list for quadruplicity traits in the link below. Or will you be thinking about doing this in the future?

https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36
This would require that I commit myself to what those traits are. I've been willing to talk freely about what I think those traits and patterns are, but I'm in no sense ready to commit to it. For one thing, they're subtle - easy to mask - subtle enough that one can ignore them completely without missing much (anything?) important about the signs that you wouldn't get from more basic symbols.

You are, of course, welcome to create whatever list you want and, knowing me, I'll likely have and express opinions about it :) - but I probably won't endorse something in a way that means it has my permanent seal of approval (which, after all, is just my opinion).

On your last question, I plan to do very little of this in the future for the triplicities - I really don't want to encourage astrologers to get too caught up in them, though I think we do need to be realistic and address them at least minimally because people will get very much caught up in them. For example, in my long-term planned mega-work on Sidereal astrology (which will be layered, different typographies and perhaps colors to distinguish foundation, intermediate, and expert content on the same subject, so it becomes three layers of book in one), my current plan is not to mention them at all in the Foundations section and mention them briefly in the Intermediate section. The distinction is that Foundation material will be "Everything you actually need to interpret a natal chart, getting all important content, is in this section." Intermediate will be "This completes my description of the larger model, it may or may not add further to your practice and by no means should be taken up until you can get what you want from the Foundations material."

Quadruplicities are second only to sign dignities in describing the signs. Triplicities are more like "nice trimmings."

Having written all of that... if you want to undertake it, I'm curious what you would come up with.
Jim Eshelman
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Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:15 pm

In case it's useful to you... I'm about halfway through compiling my Example Chart Catalog, which I may offer on its own but, in any case, will include in the eventual masterwork. From my spreadsheet, of the charts already included, here are eminent people who are "doubles" with luminary signs for each Triplicity.

Earth (Fertile) signs
Andy Griffith, Angela Lansbury, Barbara Minty, Bertrand Russell, Brooke Shields, Chick Corea, Gene Wilder, Jackie Robinson, Jane Avril, Joan Jett, John Lennon, Keir Dullea, Lorraine Hansberry, Marilyn Monroe, Marion Jones, Rupert S. Gleadow, Steffi Graf, Susan Sarandon, Vanessa Redgrave, Wynonna Judd, Pres. Rutherford B. Hayes, Pres. William McKinley, Pres. George H.W. Bush, Queen Victoria, Speaker Paul Ryan, Queen Consort Caroline, Elias Ashmole, Augusta Foss Heindel, Margaret Hone, James Hanratty,

Air (Egalitarian) signs
Alan Hale, Jr., Bernadette Peters, Cecil Rhodes, Celia Franca, Drew Barrymore, Florence Farr, George Harrison, Giorgio Armani, Helene Segara, Jean-Paul Sartre, Jim Backus, Julian Assange, Katherine Kurtz, Lena Horne, Liza Minnelli, Mindy Kaling, Olga Wormser, Polly Bergen, Richard E. Byrd, Ross Perot, Stephen Foster, Sydney Pollack, Tammy Faye Bakker, Linus Pauling, Jonas Salk, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Timothy Leary, Hans Eysenck, Pres. Calvin Coolidge, King Edward VIII, Grand Duchess Olga, Diana Princess of Wales, Grace Kelly (Princess), Princess Mary, Alfred Witte, Charles Whitman, James Earl Ray,

Water (Enigma) signs
Antonio Banderas, Elisabeth of the Trinity, Francis Ford Coppola, Gloria Steinem, Henriette Bosmans, Jane Goodall, Jerry Garcia, Joan Ganz Cooney, Joseph Campbell, Julio Gallo, Kathleen Battle, Lucky Luciano, Lucy Lawless, Marlon Brando, Pattie Boyd, Queen Latifah, Raphael of Urbino, Rodney King, Rowena Jackson, Stephen Bryer, Vincent Van Gogh,
Whitney Houston, Albert Einstein, Alexander Fleming, Jean Piaget, Richard Alpert, Pres. James Madison, Alan Leo, Max Heindel, Robert Strack, Ted Bundy

Fire (Imperial) signs
Adele, Alan Watts, Candace Bergen, Dwayne Johnson, Gabriella Papadakis, Jane Roberts, Janet Baker, Johannes Brahms, Karl Marx, LeAnn Rimes, Liz Renay, Melanie C (Sporty Spice), Rachael Ray, Rami Malek, Rose McGowan, Sheila Easton, Emperor Franz Joseph, Pres. Thomas Jefferson, Pres. Bill Clinton, Fuhrer Adolf Hitler, Sen. Thomas Eagleton, Sen. Cory Booker, Gov. George Wallace, Rosalynn Carter, R.C. Firebrace, Ian Brady, Mark David Chapman


PS - While compiling this, I became intrigued with three names - Alan Watts for Fire, Richard Alpert for Water, Timothy Leary for Air. Is there an Earth equivalent? It seems too big a leap to think Bertrand Russell fits, so I'm not sure who it would be. In any case, it started to be intriguing to think of four starkly different consciousness-raisers as representative of their triplicity.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

Henrik Jansen

Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Henrik Jansen » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:51 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:15 pm
In case it's useful to you... I'm about halfway through compiling my Example Chart Catalog, which I may offer on its own but, in any case, will include in the eventual masterwork. From my spreadsheet, of the charts already included, here are eminent people who are "doubles" with luminary signs for each Triplicity.

Earth (Fertile) signs
Andy Griffith, Angela Lansbury, Barbara Minty, Bertrand Russell, Brooke Shields, Chick Corea, Gene Wilder, Jackie Robinson, Jane Avril, Joan Jett, John Lennon, Keir Dullea, Lorraine Hansberry, Marilyn Monroe, Marion Jones, Rupert S. Gleadow, Steffi Graf, Susan Sarandon, Vanessa Redgrave, Wynonna Judd, Pres. Rutherford B. Hayes, Pres. William McKinley, Pres. George H.W. Bush, Queen Victoria, Speaker Paul Ryan, Queen Consort Caroline, Elias Ashmole, Augusta Foss Heindel, Margaret Hone, James Hanratty,

Air (Egalitarian) signs
Alan Hale, Jr., Bernadette Peters, Cecil Rhodes, Celia Franca, Drew Barrymore, Florence Farr, George Harrison, Giorgio Armani, Helene Segara, Jean-Paul Sartre, Jim Backus, Julian Assange, Katherine Kurtz, Lena Horne, Liza Minnelli, Mindy Kaling, Olga Wormser, Polly Bergen, Richard E. Byrd, Ross Perot, Stephen Foster, Sydney Pollack, Tammy Faye Bakker, Linus Pauling, Jonas Salk, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Timothy Leary, Hans Eysenck, Pres. Calvin Coolidge, King Edward VIII, Grand Duchess Olga, Diana Princess of Wales, Grace Kelly (Princess), Princess Mary, Alfred Witte, Charles Whitman, James Earl Ray,

Water (Enigma) signs
Antonio Banderas, Elisabeth of the Trinity, Francis Ford Coppola, Gloria Steinem, Henriette Bosmans, Jane Goodall, Jerry Garcia, Joan Ganz Cooney, Joseph Campbell, Julio Gallo, Kathleen Battle, Lucky Luciano, Lucy Lawless, Marlon Brando, Pattie Boyd, Queen Latifah, Raphael of Urbino, Rodney King, Rowena Jackson, Stephen Bryer, Vincent Van Gogh,
Whitney Houston, Albert Einstein, Alexander Fleming, Jean Piaget, Richard Alpert, Pres. James Madison, Alan Leo, Max Heindel, Robert Strack, Ted Bundy

Fire (Imperial) signs
Adele, Alan Watts, Candace Bergen, Dwayne Johnson, Gabriella Papadakis, Jane Roberts, Janet Baker, Johannes Brahms, Karl Marx, LeAnn Rimes, Liz Renay, Melanie C (Sporty Spice), Rachael Ray, Rami Malek, Rose McGowan, Sheila Easton, Emperor Franz Joseph, Pres. Thomas Jefferson, Pres. Bill Clinton, Fuhrer Adolf Hitler, Sen. Thomas Eagleton, Sen. Cory Booker, Gov. George Wallace, Rosalynn Carter, R.C. Firebrace, Ian Brady, Mark David Chapman


PS - While compiling this, I became intrigued with three names - Alan Watts for Fire, Richard Alpert for Water, Timothy Leary for Air. Is there an Earth equivalent? It seems too big a leap to think Bertrand Russell fits, so I'm not sure who it would be. In any case, it started to be intriguing to think of four starkly different consciousness-raisers as representative of their triplicity.
Thank you for this. I will definitely use this list and let you know about my findings. Also, I am not familiar with Watts, Alpert or Leary but whatever it is, I will try my best. Oh for double Fertile, I have one famous name. The English actor Roger Moore, known for his stint as Simon Templar in the Saint and James Bond was a Virgo-Taurus.

Off-topic:

By the way, I was always curious about this.

What does an afflicted strong Sun (Leo, Aries) look like? Like what planets would be bad for the Sun?

Also, how will those malefics affect the Sun? Like will it lessen the effect of Sun inspite of being in its domicile or exalted sign?

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Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:11 pm

Henrik Jansen wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:51 pm
By the way, I was always curious about this.

What does an afflicted strong Sun (Leo, Aries) look like? Like what planets would be bad for the Sun?
Normally that would mean the malefics. Saturn and Neptune for sure, and at least some parts of Mars. (I wouldn't consider Mars so much if the issue is whether an afflicted Sun has loss of vitality.)
Also, how will those malefics affect the Sun? Like will it lessen the effect of Sun inspite of being in its domicile or exalted sign?
It depends. Saturn and Neptune particularly deplete vitality and general health, all of them can wound reputation of standing, all of them can aberrate the personality.

BTW, I wouldn't use "strong Sun" to mean Sun in Leo or Aries - that doesn't convey strength, it conveys that Sun is in a sign of a solar nature. I'd use "strong Sun" to mean Sun in the foreground (near angles).

Here are some examples of Sun foreground and closely aspecting each of the malefics. If I have examples at hand that also have Sun in Leo or Aries, I'll highlight them/

SUN-MARS: Examples of angular Sun closely aspecting Mars with Sun in Leo: Ivan the Terrible. I have quite a few others that have lives that either contributed or suffered horror, plus a few that are simply bold, strong, courageous, sexual figures. Consider the list Gerald Ford, Joan Ganz Cooney, JonBenet Ramsey, Lucky Luciano, Neil Armstrong, Rowena Jackson, Winnie Ruth Judd - and then Jane Russell and Peter Fonda.

SUN-SATURN: For angular Sun closely aspecting Saturn the one Leo is, once more, Ivan the Terrible. The rest are a strange mix that don't immediately disclose commonalities to me: Helen Hunt, Lucky Luciano, Nadya Suleman, Robert Graves, and Starhawk.

SUN-NEPTUNE: Finally, for angular Sun closely aspecting Neptune, my one Leo example is John Flamsteed, while with Sun in Aries I find the fascinating (to me seems more Neptunian than Arietian) Liz Renay. But with other Sun-signs, you find a remarkably creative, original, often culturally significant Henriette Bosmans, Jean Piaget, John Flamsteed, Kesha Sebert, L. Ron Hubbard, Michelangelo, Paul McCartney, and Rene Russo. Also Pres. James Madison.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

Henrik Jansen

Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Henrik Jansen » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:22 pm

By the way, I wanted to let you know something interesting I found. Al Pacino, Sean Connery, Harry S. Truman, Maximilien Robespierre, Matthew Perry, Warren Buffet, Charlie Sheen, Salvador Dali, Emma Watson, and Sheena Easton are some examples of big names with malefics aspecting their sun signs that are of a solar nature. Out of these though, only Charlie Sheen and Matthew Perry have suffered from issues related to drugs. Everyone else, especially Sean Connery, Warren Buffet, Al Pacino, Emma Watson and Harry Truman seem unaffected by the malefic. What do you have to say of this?

Henrik Jansen

Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Henrik Jansen » Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:28 pm

Fertile Signs (Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn):

* Sociable
* Diligent
* Sensual
* Charitable
* Frugal
* Common Man Appeal

Egalitarian Signs (Gemini, Libra, Aquarius):

* Reclusive
* Future-Oriented
* Egalitarian
* Versatile
* Intellectual
* Serious

Enigma Signs (Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces):

* Dramatic
* Past-Oriented
* Hedonists
* Mysterious
* Changeable
* Entertaining

Imperial Signs (Leo, Sagittarius, Aries):

* VIP Appeal
* Present-Oriented
* Prideful
* Perfectionists
* Demanding
* Ambitious

Here is my basic list. Added some in your lingo and lingo targeting those around my age. Jim, tell me what you think so far.

Henrik Jansen

Re: Question about the Fire triplicity

Post by Henrik Jansen » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:03 pm

P. S.

Sorry If I sounded a bit too frivolous. Nevertheless, here is the updated list. I did not want to think of a complex list of theories, so I just came up with this. Also, I do not know if you will take my advice, but I would suggest that you rename the triplicity names. The triplicity names are just a bit too complex for the masses. Don't you think it's better to come up with names with easier vocabulary.

For instance.

Earth = Fertile = Humble
Air = Egalitarian = Futuristic
Water = Enigma = Hedonists
Fire = Imperial = Bossy

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