US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Q&A and discussion on the meanings of the Zodiacal Constellations, sign-meanings, etc.
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US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:23 pm

As forum visitors might have noticed, I have a particular interest in the horoscopes of U.S. Presidents. It's a great data base! We have abundant historic information, and the set is sufficiently diverse to show quite a range of behavior.

I've observed that there is a significant difference between the operation of the horoscope of the man (they've all been men thus far) before he became President, and while President. The office absorbs the horoscope into a nearly archetypal level. The President's horoscope becomes the de facto horoscope of the nation for a time - or, at least, it shows the patterns that the nation is enacting during that individual's Presidency, and often seems far more responsive to transits for national events than the national horoscope itself.

The king and the land are one.

Several Presidents strikingly support this premise that Presidents' horoscope becomes something larger during the years they are in office. Look at the lives vs. Presidencies of John Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln, and William McKinley, just for starters - but there are more! I'm sure there's a book in here somewhere ;)

As part of seeing the presidential horoscopes this way, I see the procession of Presidents as a continuing ritual enactment, with the Presidents as ritual officers; or as a symphony with the individual Presidents representing specific musical movements; or as a dance where each President is the next pattern of steps. Therefore, it should not have been a surprise when I discovered that there are patterns flowing from President to President expressed in their Sun and Moon signs primarily, which either match or the reverse patterns of their predecessors as if marking step and spin in a dance (or point and counterpoint in music, or dramatic tension in a ritual or play) with occasional pauses for movement change or redirection in the series.

What does this mean In concrete terms? In a heavy majority of cases, a new President will have the Sun or Moon either in the same sign as his predecessor or, more commonly, the reverse. Even more frequently, it will skip a generation (skip an administration), cycling back to the immediately prior pattern. This "inheritance" crosses party lines as if they don't exist.

This mathematical measurement of "inheritance" or successorhip that, by itself, makes a striking case for astrology.

I'll add details on this below, as time permits today.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:23 pm

In the summaries below, sign pairs (e.g., Aquarius-Sagittarius) are the Sidereal Sun-Moon sign pair (in that order).

GEORGE WASHINGTON Aquarius-Sagittarius.
There have been only two Aquarius Sun Presidents, and these have been are gargantuan stature outside all others: Washington and Lincoln. There have been no Sidereal Aquarius Moons. Sagittarius Moons are the most common of all Presidents to date, though none have occurred after the 19th Century and there has been only one since the Civil War. In any case, Washington is the first movement of the dance, the first theme of the ritual, and stands aside from the rest of the flow, outside the pattern.

JOHN ADAMS Libra-Pisces
THOMAS JEFFERSON Aries-Sagittarius
The first six Presidents were a distribution of the Virginia and Massachusetts giants among the "Founding Fathers." As the nation began the "taking turns" trade-offs between the northerners and southerners, Adams and Jefferson set off the pattern with a Libra-Aries polarity. Jefferson also continued Washington's Sagittarius Moon.

JAMES MADISON Pisces-Scorpio
Madison "inherited" Adams' Pisces as a Sun-sign.

JAMES MONROE Aries-Sagittarius
A true heir of other Virginian giants preceding, Monroe replicates Jefferson's Sun-Moon pair.

JOHN QUINCY ADAMS Gemini-Sagittarius
Retained Monroe's Sagittarius Moon.

ANDREW JACKSON Pisces-Virgo
A different kind of switcheroo! Adams and Jackson were ferocious rivals. Both were double Spokes with Sun and Moon in opposing signs. Here the Gemini-Sagittarius polarity (already an opposition) flips 90 degrees (the closest an opposition can come to "opposite sign") to the other Spoke opposition.

MARTIN VAN BUREN Scorpio-Sagittarius
Pulls the Sagittarius Moon of the prior generation.

--------------------

WILLIAM HENRY HARRISON Capricorn-Leo
"Old Tippecanoe" broke the mold: There is no continuity here. I can't tell you why he was elected, except... Given how briefly he was President, it can be argued that his primary purpose was to deliver John Tyler to the Presidency - and the pattern continues.

JOHN TYLER Pisces-Virgo
Skips a generation to before Van Buren to exactly replicate Jackson.

--------------------

JAMES K. POLK Libra-Cancer
His Cancer Moon pulls from Harrison's Capricorn Sun.

ZACHARY TAYLOR Scorpio-Aries
Polk's Libra Sun flipped to Taylor's Aries Moon. More broadly, the soft, gentlemanly Libra-Cancer tone of Polk flipped to the manly, aggressive double-Mars of Taylor's Scorpio-Aries.

MILLARD FILLMORE Sagittarius-Taurus
Taylor's Scorpio flips to Fillmore's Taurus Moon.

FRANKLIN PIERCE Scorpio-Leo
Fillmore's Taurus flipped back to Pierce's Scorpio Sun (which also retrieves Taylor's Sun from one step back).

JAMES BUCHANAN Aries-Sagittarius
Pulls Fillmore's Sun as a Moon-sign.

--------------------
ABRAHAM LINCOLN Aquarius-Capricorn
Like Washington, Lincoln stands outside the pack, a musical Prelude to Act II.
--------------------

ANDREW JOHNSON Sagittarius-Taurus
Continues the Sagittarius and Taurus-Scorpio themes of the four prior non-Lincoln Presidents. Most immediately, his Sagittarius Sun pulls Buchanan's Moon.

U.S. GRANT Aries-Cancer (+ Pisces)
Jumps a (non-Lincoln) generation to grab Buchanan's Sun. (If Lincoln is considered, which I don't think he should be, Grant flips the Capricorn Moon to Cancer.)

RUTHERFORD B. HAYES Virgo-Taurus
America's first Virgo President (the Republican Jimmy Carter) is known best for starting the overhaul of the Civil Service system. But the main point here is that he inherits Johnson's Taurus Moon (and his Virgo Sun flips Grant's Pisces stellium).

JAMES A. GARFIELD Scorpio-Aries
As would happen to Carter later, the nation responded to "too nice, too moderate" Hayes with an Aries Moon successor. Hayes' Taurus flipped to Garfield's Scorpio Sun.

CHESTER A. ARTHUR Virgo-Sagittarius
Garfield's Vice President pulls Hayes' Virgo Sun.

GROVER CLEVELAND Pisces-Cancer
Virgo flips to Pisces.

--------------------

BENJAMIN HARRISON Leo-Libra
Exactly like his grandfather, Harrison seems to have astrologically come out of nowhere! No explanation, no astrological precedent or succession. He served as an interpolation or place-holder between Cleveland Parts 1 & 2, before getting back to the usual story.

GROVER CLEVELAND Pisces-Cancer
Back to who he was the last time! - But this time, with the Panic of 1893. It's worth noting that the second worst financial devastation in our history occurred on the watch of a Cancer Moon partile square Saturn, and that the nation's response was to elect a Capricorn to follow. (This pattern will repeat.)

WILLIAM McKINLEY Capricorn-Capricorn
Cleveland's Cancer Moon flips to a double Capricorn (and a Capricorn stellium).

--------------------

THEODORE ROOSEVELT Libra-Gemini
A clean break or an anomaly (which he is often considered politically). McKinley's death propelled the unelectable and remarkable Roosevelt into office, a rogue motif boldly striking across the face of the opera.

--------------------

WILLIAM HOWARD TAFT Virgo-Leo
Only continues the pattern if Roosevelt is deemed an unelected anomaly: Taft's Virgo Sun flips Cleveland's Pisces.

WOODROW WILSON Sagittarius-Capricorn
Again, this requires skipping the unelected Roosevelt: Wilson repeats McKinley's Capricorn Moon,

WARREN G. HARDING Libra-Aries
Harding was nearly as much a dumb note astrologically as he was in the Presidency. His closest "inheritance" link is the reach back three steps to Roosevelt for the Libra Sun.

CALVIN COOLIDGE Gemini-Gemini'
Not only double Gemini luminaries, but a Gemini stellium. This, in Harding's Vice President, was the "common man" reaction against Wilson's Sagittarius.

HERBERT HOOVER Cancer-Cancer
Not only double Cancer luminaries, but a Cancer stellium - to succeed Coolidge's Gemini stellium. - As had happened similarly with Cleveland, the worst financial devastation in our history occurred on the watch of a Cancer Moon opposite Saturn... and the nation's response was to elect a Capricorn to follow.

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT Capricorn-Gemini
Capricorn Sun flips Hoover's Cancer Sun - but he also inherited Coolidge's Gemini Moon from one step back. (Good example here: People wanted things to go back to as good as they were in Coolidge's time.)

--------------------

HARRY S TRUMAN Aries-Libra
Roosevelt represented the largest chorus in the opera of our nation's history. After him, his Vice President started a new pattern quite suited to the needs of the time. "Act III" of the nation's dramatic opera begins.

DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER Virgo-Libra
Retained Truman's Libra Moon.

JOHN F. KENNEDY Taurus-Leo (+Aries)
Kennedy's Aries stellium started a strong three-president pattern and inherited the flipped Libra of his two predecessors (and Truman's Aries Sun). Kennedy's Aries cluster included Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter.

LYNDON B. JOHNSON Leo-Leo
Kennedy's Vice President shared his Leo Moon. In addition to his double Leo luminaries, Johnson had a Leo stellium that included Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter.

RICHARD M. NIXON Sagittarius-Capricorn
In addition to his Sagittarius Sun, Nixon had a Sagittarius stellium that included... Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter. Thus, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon, the crest of the Imperial Presidency, moved the same stellium around the three imperial signs Aries - Leo - Sagittarius.

GERALD FORD Gemini-Scorpio
Sagittarius reversed to Gemini. The imperial Sagittarian was replaced by the "common man" Gemini just when the nation needed it.

JIMMY CARTER Virgo-Libra
In perhaps the most banal Presidential contest of all time, a Gemini lost to a Virgo. (There's more to say about this, including the transition from a Mars-ruled Scorpio Moon to a Venus-ruled Libra Moon - but the irregular Gemini-to-Virgo hand-off is the most obvious detail.)

RONALD REAGAN Capricorn-Aries
For the second time, the nation replaced a "too nice" Virgo with a Venus-ruled Moon by an Aries Moon successor. In this case, Libra-to-Aries was the key "inheritance" flip at a time that the nation wanted more strength-themed military and executive assertion.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH Taurus-Virgo
The Virgo Moon inherits Carter's Sun-sign. Notice also (in contrast to the "Fire" stellium of the Imperial Trio) that the Sun constellations now have cycled through the "Earth" signs in the order Virgo, Capricorn, Taurus.

BILL CLINTON Leo-Aries (+ Virgo)
He inherited Reagan's Aries Moon. Also a Virgo stellium continued Bush's Virgo theme.

GEORGE W. BUSH Gemini-Virgo (+Cancer)
He inherited his father's Virgo Moon.

BARACK OBAMA Cancer-Taurus
His Cancer Sun inherited and continued Bush's Cancer stellium.

DONALD TRUMP Taurus-Scorpio
His luminaries picked up Obama's Taurus Moon.

JOSEPH BIDEN Scorpio-Aries
His Sun matched Trump's Moon and opposed Trump's Sun and Obama's Moon.

Based on Trump & Biden, the 47th U.S. President will have a luminary in Sidereal Taurus-Scorpio or Libra-Aries.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:24 pm

Deneb wrote:The only thing I have ever thought about U.S presidents, is that the most successful presidents are those born under Rim constellations. This is just a picture of my own imagination. A nation like USA needs a president who has leading ability and is capable of "rolling the wheel" like Rim constellations do always have. Reagan and F. Roosevelt are good examples of that.
Yes, the most Presidents have had Aries Suns, but only 14 of 42 Presidents (33% - exactly average!) have had Rim Suns. (12 have had Hub Suns, 16 have had Spoke Suns.) And, if you are talking about "greats" among the Rims (you forgot Jefferson, McKinley, and Teddy Roosevelt), you probably should also consider the massively failed Presidencies of Grant, Harding, and the senior Harrison.

Against this, though two of the Hub signs have only two Presidents each, and the total number is slightly less than the other sign types, among Hubs we have a comparable number of "greatest" Presidents, including no less than Washington, Lincoln, Kennedy, and Clinton.

You also haven't considered the Moons, and that's really where Rims are numerous! There have been 18 Rim Moon Presidents - 43% of the total - and even the worst have usually been noted for executive skills. There have been some clinkers - the massively failed Presidency of Grant, the weakness seen in Carter, and the economic disasters that trailed Hoover in particular. But you also find Lincoln, McKinley, Truman, Reagan, and Clinton, for example.

Hub Moons only show 10 (24%) and four of them came to the office initially by inheritance rather than direct election; so Americans have not tended to elect Hub Moon Presidents (and only reelected one). But among those relatively few we find such greats as Jefferson, Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson.

Finally, there have been 14 Spoke Moons - quite average (as have been most of the Spoke Moon Presidents, particularly if you strip out the early Sagittarius Moon examples). But even here we find Washington and both Roosevelts.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:24 pm

Sidereal Bob wrote:Happy New Year Sidereal Advocates; :D Found the Presidents analysis very interesting, and hope to study further the correspondences born out by the research. My clairvoyance tells me Hillary Clinton will be our next president, but I'm in need of a valid, or speculative good source suggested birthtime. I believe her Pisces natal (D*?) Moon could fall into the pattern Jim was demonstrating. Likewise, Political Astrology by axiom calls an election to go to Jupiter transiting the Candidates Moon; Showing popularity with the Public by Vote for the Candidate. My hunch is that some of the candidates may fall close, but not enough to personify Real Change, like the First Woman US President in History. Birthtime submittals send to: katarche@ Yahoo.com -Thank You. May all our advocates & colleagues Live long & Prosper. Lux, Sidereal Bob ;)
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:25 pm

I had mentioned before (here? elsewhere?) that Hillary did not fit this pattern as a successor to Obama. It was a disturbance in the back of my mind for the last year or so. His successor would need to have a Taurus-Scorpio luminary, or Cancer-Capricorn (or, absent that, spoke luminaries as "grandchild" of W).

As we now know, his successor will, indeed, have Taurus-Scorpio luminaries. The pattern continues to hold up.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:26 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:Can you analyze potential 2020 candidates, based on Sun-Moon placements?

Here are four:

1. Elizabeth Warren
Libra (sun), Aries (moon)
June 22, 1949 1:51PM (rectified) Oklahoma City, OK

2. Bernie Sanders
Leo, Pisces
September 8, 1941 12:27 PM Brooklyn Heights, NY

3. Tim Kaine
Aquarius, Taurus
February 26, 1958 07:59AM St.Paul, Minnesota

4. Cory Booker
Aries, Leo
April 27, 1969 1:10AM Washington DC

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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:26 pm

Presuming Trump finishes his term, the next President will need a Taurus or Scorpio luminary to fulfill this pattern OR (there are a couple of precedents) be a Leo-Aquarius to exactly polarize. Of the examples you gave, Kaine is the only one that fits, and I don't think he's competitive.

My theory (way to early to have a theory about this, I know) is that Warren start in two years to run... as Vice President! She'll be too old to go for Pres, and doesn't really want it; and the voter trends are moving (ugh!) to wanting someone new, fresh, not yet deep in the system. She should actively run as a senior mentor - the Biden model - and pledge to be in the room and in the conversation for some (perhaps thus far unknown) hot, charismatic, bright fresh face, necessarily male and almost certainly a little more centrist than she is.

PS - If Pence has already replaced Trump, we add Gemini-Sagittarius for his Moon, and there is still nobody that fits from your list. The good news: Double Capricorn Paul Ryan also does not fit!
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:27 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:Of the examples you gave, Kaine is the only one that fits, and I don't think he's competitive.
Are you speaking astrologically or practically when you say you don't think he's competitive? I sort of agree practically, but it is interesting astrologically, considering the only two aquarians have been Washington and Lincoln, and we'll be in desperate need of someone of that stature if we make it through 4 years of Trump.

Here are a few more:

5. Amy Klobuchar
Taurus-Tuarus
May 25, 1960 Plymouth, MN

6. Kirsten Gillibrand
Scorpio-Libra
December 9, 1966 Albany, NY

7. John Hickenlooper
Capricorn-Gemini
February 7, 1952 5AM, Narberth, PA

8. Kamala Harris
Libra-Pisces or possibly Libra-Aries, depending on birth time
October 20, 1964 Oakland, CA

9. Tammy Duckworth
Aquarius-Cancer or possibly Aquarius-Leo, depending on birth time
March 12, 1968 Bangkok, Thailand

10. Sherrod Brown
Libra-Cancer
November 9, 1952, Mansfield, OH

11. Tammy Baldwin
Aquarius-Aries or Aquarius-Taurus, depending on birth time.
February 11, 1962 Madison, WI

12. Tulsi Gabbard
Aries-Cancer
April 12, 1981, Leloaloa, American Samoa

So, according to the dance of the constellations, assuming Trump finishes his term, the potential candidates from the list so far are numbers 3, 5, 6, and possibly 11 (depending on birth time).

And in your Pence scenario, number 7 is the only one that fits.

Correct?

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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon May 08, 2017 6:27 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:Of the examples you gave, Kaine is the only one that fits, and I don't think he's competitive.
Are you speaking astrologically or practically when you say you don't think he's competitive?
Practically. If I didn't have direct knowledge to the contrary, I'd have thought Clinton's selection of him meant she wasn't serious about running, and nothing I saw in the campaign said otherwise. Then when you think of putting him up against Trump, it seems like putting a marshmallow bunny in front of a bulldozer driven by a crazy man.

Of the others, the "dance of the constellations" astrological profile is fit by Amy Klobuchar and Kirsten Gillibrand. If Pence is president, then Hickenlooper is within possibility.
And in your Pence scenario, number 7 is the only one that fits. Correct?
Pence is a Taurus Sun, so the Taurus-Scorpio luminaries all keep working.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:58 pm

According to this model, the next President will have a luminary in Taurus-Scorpio or Cancer-Capricorn. Of the five current front-runners, we find:

BIDEN (Scorpio-Aries, A Data): Qualified.
WARREN (Gemini-Aries, C Data): Not qualified.
SANDERS (Leo-Pisces, C Data): Not qualified.
HARRIS (Libra-Aries, AA Data): Not qualified.
BUTTIGIEG (Capricorn-Scorpio, A Data): Qualified (doubly).

Biden and Buttigieg are not an obvious pair on the surface. They are the two most moderate of the five front-runners and therefore do not have reach across the political spectrum. Their one political advantage I see, were they to team, is that it is one way for Biden to show clear diversity support. (He doesn't need to do it cross-racially, he already has stronger Black support than Harris and Booker combined.) Astrologically, though, there is the unmissable 1°28' conjunction of Joe's Sun and Pete's Moon - and this conjunction squares Trump's Mars! Somehow (not evident on the surface), the pair seems to express an enormous amount of Uranus, since their Uranuses are 0°15' apart and within a degree of Biden's Ascendant! Their two-way Jupiter-Pluto interchanges (partile and near-partile) are also interesting. They both of Venus conjunct Sun on an angle, meaning they both express a similar kind of genuinely nice person - at least a sharp contrast to Trump's Mars rising, though I don't know if that's an advantage or disadvantage.

Besides, in a VP debate face-off with Pence, Buttigieg would make Pence sooooo uncomfortable.

Just thinking aloud.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:42 am

I was curious how useful and reliable this model might be in picking - just from natal luminary and stellium signs! - the winners of a given presidential race. I find that sometimes both candidates qualified but sometimes only one.

Taking all 18 contests of the "modern presidency" (Truman forward), I found the following:

We already know, of course, that the winners in every case matched the formula. The question is how often we could have detected the losers.

Five races would have been easy by this formula because the loser didn't qualify at all:

Truman v. Dewey. Pisces-Virgo Thomas Dewey had no overlap with Truman or Roosevelt.
Kennedy v. Nixon. Nixon was not a suitable successor to Eisenhower. Sagittarius-Capricorn Nixon had no inheritance from Eisenhower or Truman.
Regan v. Mondale. Mondale was not a suitable successor to Carter. Sagittarius-Taurus Mondale had no inheritance from Reagan or Carter.
Bush v. Kerry. Scorpio-Taurus-Taurus John Kerry had no inheritance from Bush or Clinton.
Trump v. Clinton. Hillary Clinton was not an astrological successor to Obama. Libra-Aquarius Clinton had no inheritance from Obama or Bush.


The others had contestants who both qualified under this formula. Two are especially interesting because the candidates shared common or opposite luminary signs and, in all cases, Sun won out over Moon.

Bush v. Dukakis. Bush's Taurus Sun overpowered Dukakis' Taurus Moon. They were an interesting flip: Bush "qualified" by his Virgo Moon matching Carter's Virgo Sun. Dukakis qualified by his Libra Moon being a flip of Reagan's Aries Moon.

Obama v. McCain. Obama's Cancer Sun overpowered McCain' Capricorn Moon. Again, they "qualified" partly in a party flip: Obama's Cancer Sun matched Bush's Cancer stellium. McCain's Capricorn Moon opposed that (and might have helped him be the "fiscal manager" the Bush administration left behind) and his Leo Sun copied Clinton's.

Bush v. Gore. Here, each had Moon-sign opposite the other's Sun-sign and it was as close to a perfect tie as we've had in modern times. Bush, though, was a purer successor than Gore by a small bit (and things had been so good under Cancer that this was the better gambit). Bush's Virgo Moon inherited his father's Virgo Moon an Clinton's Virgo stellium. Gore hit those too, but with a Pisces Sun that represented a flip - and people weren't so intent on a flip.


For all the rest, both candidates "qualified" under the current formula. There was nothing obvious to distinguish them except the choices voters as a whole wanted to make that year, especially in terms of "staying the course" or "reversing the course."

Eisenhower vs. Stevenson (twice). Stevenson had double the qualification, which goes to show that more points don't mean more likely to win. Ike had Truman's Libra Moon. Stevenson had the opposite, Aries (Truman's Sun ), plus shared Roosevelt's Capricorn Sun.

Johnson vs. Goldwater. Sagittarius-Aries Goldwater's Aries Moon copied one prevailing thread: His Aries Moon matched JFK's Aries stellium, flipped Ike's Libra Moon, etc. Johnson, of course matched himself. It may have been as simple as America didn't want an Aries theme repeated in 1964 as we were already getting deeper into war.

Nixon v, Humphrey. Nixon continued the "Imperial Presidency markers of Kennedy and Johnson. Humphrey had JFK's Taurus Sun. Either could have won, in astrological theory.

Nixon v. McGovern. McGovern's Cancer Sun flipped Nixon's Capricorn Moon. If they had been in the slightest equal candidates, McGovern's Sun probably would have overpowered Nixon's Moon; but it did not.
'
Bush v. Clinton. Clinton (among other things) had Reagan's Aries Moon. He was a better "Reagan's back" than Bush in many ways, despite Bush's recent military wins.

Obama v. Romney. Romney's Scorpio Moon opposed Obama's Taurus Moon. The nation picked Taurus over Scorpio.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sun May 03, 2020 9:27 am

The only pattern I see is (old) white guys... The one time we get someone who isn't a white guy the nation (and big brother) decides to go back to (old) white guys. Republican Democrat all the same. Self centered.

But I'm just an "Indian rebel". Yes seriously though there has to be some astrological theme that makes it this way (even if it points to something wacky like government manipulation of votes)..

I'm guessing Trump is getting a second term. He will win due to the virus situation and due to the inpopularity of Biden to the Socialist/Democratic American youth especially (and the gays, females, Latins, Natives, African, and Asian Americans who likely feel as though they are being poorly represented). After that maybe Biden if he is still kicking..
No i'm not homeless.. you just can't smell the roses as well as you can through a teepee door..

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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 03, 2020 9:39 am

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:27 am
The only pattern I see is (old) white guys... The one time we get someone who isn't a white guy the nation (and big brother) decides to go back to (old) white guys. Republican Democrat all the same. Self centered.
But that's not an astrological pattern, so it's off-topic to this thread.
I'm guessing Trump is getting a second term. He will win due to the virus situation and due to the inpopularity of Biden to the Socialist/Democratic American youth especially (and the gays, females, Latins, Natives, African, and Asian Americans who likely feel as though they are being poorly represented). After that maybe Biden if he is still kicking..
If Trump gets a second term, there may not be an "after that." The nation and the planet are at serious risk every day he's in office - as the last two or three months have shown more vividly than even the prior three years.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:41 pm

Updated.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:42 pm

I should put this on record because it's started to leak out in conversations here and there:

Based on the high fidelity of this pattern, it is easy to predict that Biden's successor of president - whenever and however that comes about - will have Sun or Moon in Sidereal Scorpio-Taurus or Aries-Libra.

This does create a sizeable pool, though it does reduce the overall pool quite a lot also. These are four possible Sun-signs and four possible Moon-signs - it only takes one! That means about 1/3 (33%) of all people have a qualifying Sun-sign. Of the remaining 2/3, one-third of them have a qualifying Moon-sign (22%). This does qualify just over half the people otherwise qualified to run (about 55%), so perhaps it's not much of a prediction.

Nonetheless, other than Vice President Harris and the possibility of Trump running again, the next three or four names that come up do not qualify, so this might be a useful screen tool as is. For example, Ron DeSantis is a Leo-Capricorn, so he doesn't qualify under this pattern. Neither does Bernie Sanders (Leo-Pisces), who just announced he won't oppose Biden. Other names will come up and this will serve as a useful filter to narrow the list in 2024 or 2028.

If Biden dies while in office, the prediction continues unchanged since Harris has Libra-Aries luminaries. At that point, the "last two presidents" will still have had only Scorpio, Aries, and Libra luminaries, so Taurus-Scorpio and Libra-Aries still become the qualifying axes.

We likely will have an entirely new set of names to juggle in 2024 and 2028. Nonetheless, of former contenders already known to us, or names that keep being floated that haven't run, some who qualify under this pattern besides Harris and Trump are Cory Booker, Rahm Emanuel, Stacey Abrams, Chris Christie, Oprah Winfrey, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, Beto O'Rourke, Elizabeth Warrenm Matthew McConaughey, Mike Pence, Larry Hogan, William Barr. There will be others who will pop up (or who I might have missed in the tour).

Interestingly (to me), all but one living former president fits the pattern also, so it seems to be a pro-president pattern in the current larger era. (LOL, technically Jimmy Carter could still run.)
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by mikestar13 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:19 pm

Kamala Harris might become President if Biden dies or resigns (the latter presumably because of failing heath). In the case Biden's health fails but he doesn't resign, Harris could (with a majority vote of the cabinet) invoke the 25th amendment and become Acting President. I assume this last would have the same astrological signature as actually becoming President. As for the chance of Harris being elected in 2024, I'm going to take off my astrologer's hat for a moment and put on my political analyst's hat: not on an answered prayer -- her poll numbers stink even worse than Biden's, and his reek to high heaven. There is one genuinely miraculous possibility that might change that: she become President/Acting President during Biden's term and surprises everyone including herself by governing successfully from the center rather than somewhere farther left than Biden. In said miraculous scenario, I'd even vote for her.

I think for good or ill the most likely 2024 scenario is Trump pulling a Grover Cleveland and serving to non-consecutive terms. This is of course assuming (a) Trump's health doesn't fail, and (b) he actually wants to run.

My hope is that both parties nominate younger candidates in 2028, and a constitutional amendment is enacted setting age limits for the President, Vice President, members of Congress, and federal judges. Even if this happens, I don't expect to live to see it.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:30 pm

mikestar13 wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:19 pm
Kamala Harris might become President if Biden dies or resigns... I assume this last would have the same astrological signature as actually becoming President.
I don't know, since we've never seen it. The few seeming exceptions or distortions to the pattern have included successors to presidents who died in office, so maybe not.

However, in Harris' case it doesn't matter: They share an Aries Moon so she's qualified under the formula. Also, she doesn't change the projection for who comes next: Right now, the current and immediately past president are a Scorpio-Aries and a Taurus-Scorpio, so the choices are Taurus-Scorpio & Aries-Libra. If Harris succeeds Biden, then the then-current and immediately past president would be a Libra-Aries and a Scorpio-Aries - so, still calling for Taurus-Scorpio or Libra-Aries.
As for the chance of Harris being elected in 2024, I'm going to take off my astrologer's hat for a moment and put on my political analyst's hat: not on an answered prayer
Agreed. Neither her numbers nor the political climate support it.
I think for good or ill the most likely 2024 scenario is Trump pulling a Grover Cleveland and serving to non-consecutive terms. This is of course assuming (a) Trump's health doesn't fail, and (b) he actually wants to run.
I refuse to be so morbid. Not only would those four years be incredibly terrible, I don't trust the world we'd have at the end (or if we'd have a recognizable U.S. at all); and the failure to exclude him on constitutional grounds would be a dark, dark failure of the Constitution. Nonetheless, Pluto is in Capricorn, so the darkest visions are less impossible.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by mikestar13 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:01 pm

Truth is seeing what the Democrats have to offer, I would most prefer to vote for a moderate Republican (if there be such) who is less aggressive and confrontational than Trump. As long as the Democrats focus on identity politics and worrying about pronouns instead of their historic focus on legitimate needs and grievances of the poor, minorities, and workers, I do not intend to vote for them. This is quite normal in the USA: very many people vote against whomever they dislike/hate/fear more, rather than for the opponent. Every Presidential vote I've cast since I came of age in 1975 has followed that pattern. As a white cisgender heterosexual male Christian, I fear the Democrats more--which is not to say I don't fear the Republicans. Any sane person fears both sides at least a little.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:17 pm

A name I just added to the above list (in addition to Pence, whom I'd forgotten to include) is Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan - ironically a Taurus-Scorpio like Trump. He's mentioned frequently as a possible contender and might align with what you described.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Soft Alpaca » Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:24 pm

Jim this to me is settling out to be Maine and Montana against seditious Republicans. (Look at these two red libertarian states) I as a Lincoln (style and by Hanks blood) Republican I still believe that the threat of loosing the Union would be the darkest option for Capricorn Pluto.

Mr Trump has lost control of the party in the sense that there are now those willing to undo the separation of the church and state and that will be a rallying cry to northern and libertarian Republicans everywhere.
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Re: US Presidents - the dance of the constellations

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:33 pm

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:24 pm
Mr Trump has lost control of the party in the sense that there are now those willing to undo the separation of the church and state and that will be a rallying cry to northern and libertarian Republicans everywhere.
One can only hope! (It is certainly a rallying cry for the left and should be for everyone IMHO. The original goal, of course, was not separation of church and state: That's the method. The goal was universal choice in the practice of religion and broad religious freedom.)
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