Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

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Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sat May 13, 2017 10:12 pm

I've been playing with altitude conjunctions with the meridian close to a year now, and i've noticed any planet conjunct MC and IC (meridian) in altitude within 1 degree orb using solar fire's z-analogue altitude gives perfect symbolism, meaning de facto angularity and aditional conjunction aspects.

I personally have saturn uranus neptune triple altitude conjunction with MC partile. The theory is that i have triple conjunction of those planets while being simultaneously angular. I dont have this in my natal chart except uranus ecliptical square to the ascendant, aka ecliptical zenith aka nonagesimal. The additon of saturn and neptune describe me perfectly...

this is my chart in z-analogue altitude, i removed all planets that are not conjunct the meridian
Image

I propose for mundane astrology that if anything has the power to move a dormant ingress into an active one (or non-dormant as Mr Eshelman calls it) it is planet or planets in altitude conjunction with MC and IC 1 degree orb

and of course likewise for natal charts (solar and lunar returns also) additional angularity and conjunctions.

How to check this,

My method is simple for altitude conjunction with the meridian (MC and IC) angularity:

Use only z-analogue ALTITUDE in solar fire, nothing else and check visually on the first screen only conjunction with IC AND MC (use displayed points) within 1 degree orb (1 01 max).

if you dont have solar fire then you have to check manually altitude number of a planet or planets to match MC or IC in the same hemisphere, north or south of the ecliptic, + or - within 1 degree orb

but we need accurate birth times

I started with natal charts and found mindblowing symbolism with my charts, famous people and so on...

look at donald bradley's natal chart, pluto conjuct IC in altitude, perfect fit, he was know as a sheltered recluse, private man

cyril fagan gets mercury on the MC

audrey hepburn gets saturn on MC and sun on IC

daniel day lewis gets the moon on IC

marlon brando gets neptune on MC

leonardo da vinci 21:40 pm natal time gets the moon on IC and pluto on the MC, also mars just above orb 1 03 on IC but i dont like orbs in altitude more then 1 degree

muhammad ali gets uranus on the IC

carl gustav jung ges the moon on the IC

nikola tesla gets mercury on the IC

albert einstein gets neptune on the MC, perfect fit

and so on and on

all these examples are of new angularities which are not present in mundoscope, nonagesimal (square to the ASC) or westpoint eastpoint in RA

what do you think, anyone here interested in checking altitude conjunctions with the meridian with their databases of charts, especially solar and lunar returns for the greatest events in life?

UPDATE:
i forgot to inform you, i also use them for solar and lunar returns, maybe the easiest way we have in determining whether altitude conjunctions with the meridian are valid or not, because detecting symbolism in ssr and slr returns is easier than natal charts
Last edited by UncleAries on Sat May 13, 2017 11:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat May 13, 2017 10:25 pm

Thanks for explaining your system. I encourage anyone interested in taking this up to explore and report back.
UncleAries wrote:
Sat May 13, 2017 10:12 pm
look at donald bradley's natal chart, pluto conjuct IC in altitude, perfect fit, he was know as a sheltered recluse, private man
But, of course, he had a rising Aquarius Moon closely trine both Saturn and Pluto :)
cyril fagan gets mercury on the MC with the sun
And he also had a Virgo Moon. (I don't have time to look up the charts of the others to check, and I thank you for including examples. but remarks on a couple I know.)
carl gustav jung ges the moon on the IC
He was a Cancer.
albert einstein gets neptune on the MC, perfect fit
He was a Pisces.
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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sat May 13, 2017 10:30 pm

yes but there's a difference having those planets angular or not, wouldn't you say Mr. Eshelman?

donald bradley's rising Aquarius Moon closely trine both Saturn and Pluto is different than a rising Aquarius Moon closely trine both Saturn and an angular Pluto

its not the same, in power of the planets and their aspects and your very own planet angularity descriptions

likewise fagan, this means has had sun mercury co-angularity and sun mercury strong conjunction aspect

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat May 13, 2017 10:49 pm

UncleAries wrote:
Sat May 13, 2017 10:30 pm
yes but there's a difference having those planets angular or not, wouldn't you say Mr. Eshelman?[/qupoe]
Difference? Yes. Qualitatively different. But a luminary ruled by a planet is certainly as strong as having that planet angular - too close to easily distinguish "it comes from this" vs. "it comes from that." The clearest cases would be where a planet is angular in the fashion you describe, and is not

-- ruling luminary sign,
-- closely aspecting a luminary, or
-- otherwise angular
donald bradley's rising Aquarius Moon closely trine both Saturn and Pluto is different than a rising Aquarius Moon closely trine both Saturn and an angular Pluto
Yes, in theory... but how could you easily discern it? The Moon-Saturn-Pluto grand trine those signs is alone sufficient to make him the hermit you correctly describe.

Mostly I'm saying that no one who didn't know him could tell the difference from the description.
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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sat May 13, 2017 10:55 pm

i agree with you

that means we need to find natal charts (also mundane charts, maybe easier because ingresses are different animal) with planets conjunct in altitude with the meridian that are not

-- ruling luminary sign,
-- closely aspecting a luminary, or
-- otherwise angular

otherwise it is impossible to discern or distinguish it, impossible to prove or reject the validity of planets conjunct in altitude with the meridian

tough job, but the rewards of proving them are great
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sat May 13, 2017 10:49 pm
Yes, in theory... but how could you easily discern it?
UPDATE:
i forgot to inform you, i also use them for solar and lunar returns, maybe the easiest way we have in determining whether altitude conjunctions with the meridian are valid or not, , because detecting symbolism in ssr and slr returns is easier than natal charts

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sun May 14, 2017 12:23 am

one day when you're not so busy Mr Eshelman, in a month or so...

when you have time would you mind checking solar and lunar returns, and demi solar and lunar returns (what else is applicable)

for these events in your life that you used in this topic

http://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&p=4900#p1579

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by SteveS » Sun May 14, 2017 5:06 am

UncleAries wrote:
I've been playing with altitude conjunctions with the meridian close to a year now, and i've noticed any planet conjunct MC and IC (meridian) in altitude within 1 degree orb using solar fire's z-analogue altitude gives perfect symbolism, meaning de facto angularity and additional conjunction aspects.
Most interesting!

UncleAries wrote:
tough job, but the rewards of proving them are great
I will start checking both mundane and sidereal astrology charts for this type angularity. Thanks for posting your observations here UncleAries.

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by SteveS » Sun May 14, 2017 6:33 am

UncleAries,
Here is the pre 9/11/2001 SSR July 9, 2001 for the July 6, 1775 Boyd (Declaration of War), viewed in Z-Analogue Altitude. As we can see, your method offers sharp par-excellent planetary symbolism for the 9/11 event. Good work Uncle. 8-)
Image

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sun May 14, 2017 6:41 am

SteveS

the orbs are above 1 degree, this is not applicable, im not confident extending the orb to 2 degrees,

and you used a mundane chart of usa, i prefer solar and lunar ingresses for the capital and event locations

why dont you try your solar and lunar returns (also demi, maybe quarter) for the greatest events in your life?

thanks

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by SteveS » Sun May 14, 2017 6:47 am

the orbs are above 1 degree, this is not applicable, im not confident extending the orb to 2 degrees,
I understand Uncle. I was using Jim's mundane non-dormant orbs of 3 degrees for the angles, but will only use your 1 degree orb for Genethliacal charts. Thanks

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by SteveS » Sun May 14, 2017 7:48 am

Boyd’s 1929 SSR Z-Analogue Altitude (UncleAries method), stock market crash of Oct 1929, beginning of Great Depression.
Image

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sun May 14, 2017 8:18 am

im reading some events in Mr Eshelman's SMA version 14

im checking for ingresses that are not convincing or dormant

for example

hiroshima atom bomb
Month: Caplunar
For Tokyo, this chart seems counter-indicative.1 The two planets close to an angle are Jupiter (1°24') and Neptune (3°56') on either side of Descendant. While Neptune fits, Neptune with Jupiter
does not fit (and Jupiter is stronger). One might argue that Japan was looking for a way out of the war and was handed one, but surely, no one believes that they welcomed this at the enormous cost
of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The Caplunar’s one redemption, which throws it into a positive score:
Moon mundanely squares Mars (0°57'). {+1 Good}

1 This is the one chart that performs better for Hiroshima. A close Venus-Uranus conjunction squares Ascendant
for tokyo Caplunar you get altitude
uranus IC conj. 50'
saturn 1 19 just over orb

for hiroshima Caplunar you get altitude
mars conj. IC 40'
uranus conj. IC 7''!

drastic improvement

.......................

CHERNOBYL
SOLAR INGESSES
Year: Capsolar {+1 Good}
Moon square Uranus (1°10') is the strongest voice. This is not foreground in the Ukraine, and affects the whole world – as did news of this event, acting as a “wake-up call” everywhere.
But the one closely angular planet is Jupiter (2°52' from IC), squared by a widely foreground Mars. This will not be the last Jupiter we see, and it does not seem to have much in common with
the event. I will give the chart a +1 score because of Moon-Uranus and the Mars aspect: on balance, the chart is more descriptive of the event than not. With the Capsolar, the year is just beginning.
i found errors in this
first of all Moon square Uranus is 1 20 not 1 10

and jupiter is shy away from IC 3 degrees, it's 3 03 away for location and 3 20 for kiev capital

for location and capital capsolar (similar longitude latitude) you get altitude
sun con. IC within 1 degree
venus con. IC within 1 degree

which is weird....

...............
FRIENDSHIP THEATER FIRE Karamay, China
For Karamay, the dormant Caplunar has Moon conjunct Uranus (0°36') and Neptune (0°20' in mundo). By flow-through, the prior Liblunar still holds sway and makes a poor showing: Venus rises, 0°04' from Ascendant, with only Moon joining it in the foreground (distantly). Even with Moon square Uranus (1°52'), this is a very unsatisfactory ingress. {-2 Very Bad}
For Karamay Liblunar you get altitude
uranus conj. IC 15' !
neptune 1 30 over orb

For Karamay Caplunar you get altitude
mars conj. MC 50'!

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sun May 14, 2017 8:33 am

SteveS wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 7:48 am
Boyd’s 1929 SSR Z-Analogue Altitude (UncleAries method), stock market crash of Oct 1929, beginning of Great Depression.
steveS can you please write in the future what type of chart you are looking at with z-analogue altitude, solar or lunar return, ingresses and so on... so that we can check your charts ourselves

and why do you use boyd's usa

im using 4 Jul 1776 NS 12:14:42 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by SteveS » Sun May 14, 2017 8:51 am

steveS can you please write in the future what type of chart you are looking at with z-analogue altitude, solar or lunar return, ingresses and so on... so that we can check your charts ourselves
Yes, in the future, I will title these charts for easy reference.
and why do you use boyd's usa
I have only started looking at the Boyd chart in last couple of weeks. But, I have read in AA Mag (American Astrology) where a few well respected Siderealists claimed the Boyd Chart offered excellent symbolism for timed events. In the Jan 1992 issue of AA, p. 28, Bert Fannin writes:
The 11:00 AM LMT, July 6 1775, Philadelphia was worked out by Helen Boyd and R.C. Firebrace and was subsequently found to work well when tested against various events in US History.


If anyone has any written articles by Firebrace about Boyd's Chart, I would appreciate references.

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 9:02 am

Steve's been dying to test the Boyd chart any way he can <vbg>.

BTW, that Karamay Caplunar caught my eye and is the first thing that made my eyes pop a bit - because that event for where it occurred has always been weak. (It works splendidly for the capital - which is always a valid ego-hub of a nation for any national-impact event - but not for the location, so give you a big score for that one.)

Since you asked specifically about dormant ingresses (not just unconvincing ones but, specifically, dormant ones), I can easily give you a list of all the events that have the most recent lunar ingress dormant. (It's all organized on a spreadsheet.) Here is a list of those events, with the "D" representing the dormant weekly lunar, and the number after it being the score of the earlier ingress flowing through to the event week. (These events had other viable factors, but I'm providing data to test the one specific thing you first asked about.)

Manila Earthquake D 0
Xining quake Earthquake D 2
Olympia quake Earthquake D 2
Great Chilean quake Earthquake D 2
Great Alaskan quake Earthquake D 2
Northridge quake Earthquake D 2
Sumatra-Andaman quake Earthquake D 2
Nepal Earthquake Earthquake D 2
Benxihu Colliery disaster Mine disaster D 2
Hurricane Sandy Hurricane D 2
Typhoon Haiyan Hurricane D 2
Great Blizzard 1888 Hurricane D 1
Heppner flash flood Flood D 2
Red River flood Flood D 2
Millennium Flood Flood D 2
Cocoanut Grove Nightclub fire Fire D 0
Triangle Shirtwaist fire Fire D 2
Niteroi Circus Fire Fire D 2
Friendship Theater Fire Fire D -2
Ycua Bolanos market fire Fire D 2
Ghost Ship Fire D 2
Great Fire of 1910 Fire D 2
Cloquet fire Fire D 1
Blackwater fire Fire D 1
Cerro fire Fire D 3
Yarnell Hills fire Fire D 2
Wall Street bombing Bomb D 1
Oklahoma City bombing Bomb D 2
Boston Marathon explosion Bomb D 1
Great Nashville Train Wreck Vehicular D 2
Chualar Bus Crash Vehicular D 2
Yuba City school bus Vehicular D 2
USS Thresher sank - DC Vehicular D 2
USS Scorpion sank Vehicular D 2
Lac-Megantic train derailment Vehicular D 2
Sewol sinking Vehicular D 0
Malaysia Airlines 370 Vehicular D 2
Trigana Flight 257 Vehicular D 2
Metrojet Flight 9268 Vehicular D D
Andria-Corato train wreck Vehicular D 3
Bombay Harbor explosion Explosion D 2
Cleveland East Ohio gas explosion Explosion D 1
South Amboy explosion Explosion D 2
Hodges meteorite Impact D D
Chelyabinsk explosion Impact D 1
Z Taylor death Pres crisis D 2
W McKinley shooting Pres crisis D 2
J Kennedy death Pres crisis D 2
R Reagan shot Pres crisis D 2
Anwar Sadat murder Murder D 2
Elizabeth wedding Royals D 1
D-Day War & Peace D 3
Pearl Harbor TOKYO War & Peace D 2
Fall of Saigon War & Peace D 2
Fall of Saigon - DC War & Peace D 2
Iraq War - Washington War & Peace D 1
Bay of Pigs invasion (Cuba) Warlike D D
Benghazi Consulate attack (Washington) Warlike D 3
Luby's massacre Mass Murder D 2
San Bernardino shooting Mass Murder D 2
Wounded Knee Massacre Massacre D 3
Armenian Holocaust Massacre D 2
Wola Massacre D 2
Black July Massacre D 2
Srebrenica Massacre D 2
Waco siege (Washington) Uprising &c. D 2
SCOTUS Gay Marriage Uprising &c. D 3
Sputnik 1 - 1st Satellite Space D 1
Freedom 7 - Alan Shepard Space D -1
Vostok 6 - 1st woman in space Space D 2
Apollo 8 - 1st Moon orbit Space D 2
Apollo 8 - began orbit Space D 2
Apollo 11 - Moon mission Space D 1
Apollo 11 - Moon landing Space D 1
I-35 Mississippi River Bridge collapse Bridge Collapse D -1
1837 Panic - NY Financial Panic D 1
1873 Panic - Vienna Financial Panic D 3
1893 Panic - NY Financial Panic D 1
1929 Wall Street Crash - DC Financial Panic D 1
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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 9:08 am

SteveS wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 8:51 am
If anyone has any written articles by Firebrace about Boyd's Chart, I would appreciate references.
I don't, but I heard at the time he'd been working with it. That must have appeared in Spica after I went off to college and he and I lost touch.

The only thing I have from him on U.S. charts is his 1963 article in American Astrology where he compared several 7/4/1776 charts and concluded a strong victory for the "shortly past noon" time. I've summarized that one here:
http://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=571
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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by SteveS » Sun May 14, 2017 9:11 am

Steve's been dying to test the Boyd chart any way he can <vbg>.
Indeed! Since you pointed out to me the value of the PSN with my partile 180 p. Sun p. Uranus, I think I am just now "discovering" (Uranus) something important about the Boyd chart, along with your PSN, and Uncle's "Attitude" method. :)

Maybe Firebrace discovered the Boyd chart after he discovered the past noon July 4 1776 chart , I don't Know. Do you know when Boyd discovered July 6, 1775 USA chart?
Last edited by SteveS on Sun May 14, 2017 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sun May 14, 2017 9:13 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 9:02 am

Since you asked specifically about dormant ingresses (not just unconvincing ones but, specifically, dormant ones), I can easily give you a list of all the events that have the most recent lunar ingress dormant. (It's all organized on a spreadsheet.) Here is a list of those events, with the "D" representing the dormant weekly lunar, and the number after it being the score of the earlier ingress flowing through to the event week. (These events had other viable factors, but I'm providing data to test the one specific thing you first asked about.)

ok, ill check em when i have time, can you please upload your latest updated SMA database of events, i have an old one 2 years ago not much events there

UPDATE:

http://www.solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f ... 4dfa665380

i need a newer one

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 9:25 am

UncleAries wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 9:13 am
ok, ill check em when i have time, can you please upload your latest updated SMA database of events, i have an old one 2 years ago not much events there
I can probably manage that. At least an approximately complete one, since it's spread across multiple computers, but the one where I am now has the most complete one. (I'll often add a new event over lunch when I'm at work, and not re-add that event to the separate file when I get home.)

I didn't copy that thread because it didn't seem anyone was interested; but since you asked...

It's online now here: http://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=918#p5086
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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sun May 14, 2017 10:36 am

Sumatra-Andaman quake

arilunar neptune IC 1 08 just over orb, dont like it

for jakarta capital neptune is angular
--------------
Hurricane Sandy

arilunar mars MC 1 14 just over orb, dont like it
jupiter IC 35'

for washington arilunar mars MC 56' !
jupiter ic 54'
-----------------
Typhoon Haiyan

canlunar saturn MC 58' !
----------------
Great Blizzard 1888

improvement for
liblunar saturn IC 58' !
---------------
Heppner flash flood

mindblowing!

caplunar saturn IC 3' !!!
venus MC 32'
................
Millennium Flood

arilunar saturn IC 52'!
----------------
Wall Street bombing
liblunar uranus MC 49'
jupiter IC 37'
---------
Oklahoma City bombing
liblunar neptune MC 9' !
-------
Boston Marathon explosion
arilunar for washington
saturn IC 44' !
moon MC 1'!
-------------

thats enough for now
what do you think?

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 10:43 am

I can't make any sense out of that list, because I don't know what else is in those charts. Are you only looking at the dormant charts? (If so, then we also have to reframe the entire event by excluding the flow-through ingress.) Or are you going through the list n general.

BTW, it's possible that these are relevant aspects without displacing dormancy. Reliable dormancy is a really bit deal because it is almost our only tool to know exactly what ingresses apply to a given place at a given time. There are other situations where factors are valid in a chart (most obviously, Moon aspects) and are read and relevant - but the chart remains dormant. So those are two separate things to assess here.

Meanwhile, please clarify what set you are going through (maybe it's obvious and I'm missing it, because I have 90% of my attention on the migration project).

Thanks!
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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sun May 14, 2017 10:57 am

all above i listed are dormant ingresses that have a altitude conj. with meridian present except for

Typhoon Haiyan
additional angularity in active ingress

Great Blizzard 1888
additional angularity in active ingress

Millennium Flood
arilunar saturn IC 52'!
additional angularity in active ingress

sorry i shoud have clarified better, from now on only dormant ingresses

therefore check these dormant ingresses out that have altitude conj with MC OR IC
----------------------------------------
Sumatra-Andaman quake

arilunar neptune IC 1 08 just over orb, dont like it

for jakarta capital neptune is angular, is jakarta applicable?
--------------
Hurricane Sandy

arilunar mars MC 1 14 just over orb, dont like it
jupiter IC 35'

for washington arilunar mars MC 56' !
jupiter ic 54'
----------------
Heppner flash flood
mindblowing!

caplunar saturn IC 3' !!!
venus MC 32'
----------------
Wall Street bombing

liblunar uranus MC 49'
jupiter IC 37'
---------
Oklahoma City bombing

liblunar neptune MC 9' !
-------
Boston Marathon explosion

arilunar for washington
saturn IC 44' !
moon MC 1'!
-------------
D-DAY

liblunar mars MC 46' amazing
-----------

we need to reframe the entire event by excluding the flow-through ingress, yes exactly, how would then the event delineation look?

im going through that list you gave me of dormant lunar ingresses in a random fashion, posting here only dormant ingresses with altitude conjunctions with mc and ic present

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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:24 am

UncleAries wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 10:57 am
we need to reframe the entire event by excluding the flow-through ingress, yes exactly, how would then the event delineation look?
An event is described by the entirety of the "stack" of relevant charts. One of the things that has been demonstrated pretty solidly is that, when an ingress is dormant, the most recent non-dormant ingress flows through (within the same year for solar ingresses or month for lunar ingresses), and that these flowing-through ingresses have almost exactly the same accuracy as the standard category.

OK, that was confusing, I'm sure. Let me try it again. Score the performance of each non-dormant weekly chart. Next, where the weekly chart was dormant, score the flow-through chart (the most recent non-dormant lunar ingress). When you do this (which has been done half a dozen times now), a nearly identical percentage of the flow-through charts (the second group) score as high or low as the first group. They aren't better, they aren't worse... they perform indistinguishably, the same. It appears that, functionally, they are the same.

And yet, this isn't because all lunar ingresses (for example) are equally potent. We've separately shown that the Caplunar has high performance throughout the month, and the other three have pathetic performance every week except their own week. However, if they are flowing-through to replace a dormant ingress, then they have the same potency as if it were their own week.

Here are some numbers from the current edition of SMA, which catalogues 301 major events.

The 222 non-dormant weekly lunar ingresses receive the following scores (with 94% of them being +1 or better):

Excellent 9%
Very Good 62%
Good 23%
Neutral 3%
Bad 0%
Very Bad 3%
Unacceptable 1%

In comparison, the most recent non-dormant lunar ingress (regardless of whether it was the most recent lunar ingress) scores as follows, with 93% of them being "good" or better.

Excellent 9%
Very Good 62%
Good 22%
Neutral 3%
Bad 1%
Very Bad 2%
Unacceptable 0%

These numbers are indistinguishable in practice, more the nature of rounding errors than anything else. Finally, if we strip out the events with current lunar ingresses non-dormant, and use only the 76 flow-through examples, we get a substantially identical profile, with 92% "good" or better.

Excellent 13%
Very Good 62%
Good 21%
Neutral 4%
Bad 3%
Very Bad 1%
Unacceptable 0%

What all this appears to mean is that, if the current ingress is dormant, then take the one right before it - it's exactly as good (neither better nor worse, as a category); i.e., it is the "current lunar ingress."

So... once this was discovered, all of the hundreds events were worked up in terms of this, and assessed by including the flow-through chart. If dormancy is displaced (the current lunar is not dormant when we thought it was), then we have to exclude the flow-through chart. That's fine, if that's what the evidence says, but (my original point above) it means we have to assess the accuracy of charts for the event de novo. It's not just a matter of one chart having something new of value; if dormancy is actually overcome, then we also have to exclude the prior chart's symbolism from the mix.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

UncleAries
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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by UncleAries » Sun May 14, 2017 11:47 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 11:24 am
but (my original point above) it means we have to assess the accuracy of charts for the event de novo. It's not just a matter of one chart having something new of value; if dormancy is actually overcome, then we also have to exclude the prior chart's symbolism from the mix.
yes exactly, i totally understand you and your methods for mundane astrology, i've been following you the last 2 years

i really would appreciate when you have time in a month or two to do exactly that

1. assess the accuracy of charts for the event de novo.
2. exclude the prior chart's symbolism from the mix


i only trust you of all astrologers currently alive for this type of job

thanks

there are only 3 options for altitude conj. meridian
1. they are bogus for both additional aspects and angularity both natal and mundane charts
2. they are only additional aspects for natal and mundane charts
3. they are both additional aspects and angularity both natal and mundane charts
Last edited by UncleAries on Sun May 14, 2017 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Altitude conjunctions with the meridian (MC and IC)

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:53 am

Because that requires the calculation, breakdown, and reassessment, from scratch, of over 3,000 individual charts, this would take most of a year. It may happen in some subsequent edition of SMA.

But, later in the year, I'll probably have the chance to do some spot checks and small pilot projects to see what's going on.

A suggestion - because we have so many events in the group, and because the factors are well-known so that I can use it as a good spot-check lit... Take all the fires listed in SMA, calculate the most recent lunar ingress, and see how many have Mars or Saturn fit your criteria. Keep the Mars and Saturn totals separate from each other, and break them down one other way: Isolate those where Mars or Saturn is already foreground from those where Mars or Saturn is not. It should prove illuminating (that sample of charts rarely lets me down).
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

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