Sun Parallel Mercury

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ScarletDepths
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Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by ScarletDepths » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:19 pm

On my quest to find planetary dominant, I looked into parallels.

I did not know I had a Sun Mercury parallel. I was searching in to my Mercury already angular and in the local horizion chart it is nearly on the horizon (even closer to it than my sun) as well as aspecting Mars,Uranus,and Jupiter. (Amongst other non traditional sidereal things I won't bring about).

I'm wondering what a Sun Parallel Mercury would be like? (Less than a half hour apart in declination) I don't conceder myself overly rational (I think Mercury loosely aspecting Uranus helps this).

(Sun in Sag Merc. In Scorp)

Any discussion appreciated! Thanks

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:32 pm

If parallels had value, a Sun-Mercury parallel would mean the same as a young other Sun-Mercury aspect it is the nature of the planets that determines what comes from an aspect.

However, after really trying to give them a chance(I always liked them in theory), I have to say that there is no serious evidence idebce of parallels having value, and the anecdotal weight against them is considerable.

Your own testimony agrees: You don't see yourself as a Sun-Mercury type either.

More later when I get to a computer.
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:02 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:19 pm
...in the local horizion chart [Mercury] is nearly on the horizon (even closer to it than my sun) as well as aspecting Mars,Uranus,and Jupiter.
I don't know what you mean by this. I initially thought you meant an azimuth ("local space") chart - measured along the horizon - but Mercury is nowhere near the horizontal plane or any angle or (more telling) does it have the aspects your described.
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:33 am

Declination

There is another dimension to your astrology chart. This has to do with planets being the same distance from the celestial equator. When both planets are on the same side of this plane there are called parallel. When the planets are the same distance but on opposite sides of the celestial equator they are referred to as being contra-parallel.

It is an actual astronomical measurement of declination both Mercury and the Sun run at 37 South (Sun Mercury is parallel). My moon runs and 12N and Pluto at 11S (Moon-Pluto is contraparralel).

https://alabe.com/AUG3-7JustParallels.jpg

They act as slightly weaker conj. Or opp. I'm finding.

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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:30 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:33 am
Declination

There is another dimension to your astrology chart. This has to do with planets being the same distance from the celestial equator. When both planets are on the same side of this plane there are called parallel. When the planets are the same distance but on opposite sides of the celestial equator they are referred to as being contra-parallel.
Yes, of course, that's the theory. It just doesn't work as something astrologically meaningful.

And, of course, there are numerous "other dimensions" possible in a horoscope, and we use many of them, such as prime vertical longitude (just to name the most common) - multiple measuring circles and the theoretical possibility of their perpendicular coordinate (latitude, declination, PV amplitude, altitude, and others). As I mentioned above, I like the theory; it just doesn't hold in practice.

In fact, I like the contraparallel theory even better than the parallel theory, because, if it were valid, it would amount to two planets being so positioned that the celestial equator was at their midpoint. But how much I like a theory has very little to do with how true it is :) This has simply never been able to be validated in any large, objective study, and single case examples prove contrary to someone's nature more often than they are descriptive.
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:47 am

My Sun parallels Mercury
Venus parallels Uranus
Pluto contraparallel Moon

All three match my personality.

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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:35 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:47 am
My Sun parallels Mercury
Venus parallels Uranus
Pluto contraparallel Moon

All three match my personality.
In assessing this, we need to exclude Moon-Pluto, since you have a very close Moon-Pluto square: There's no way to tell if you have a second Moon-Pluto aspect, since we know you have one that is so close.

On Sun-Mercury, I thought you were saying above that this does not describe you. Mercurial traits are going to be strong anyway, with a foreground Mercury (third most expressive planet in your chart). Since I don't know exactly what Mercury traits you mean, I don't know if they sound more like Sun-Mercury or angular Mercury.

Venus-Uranus doesn't have an obvious exactly equivalent explanation, and it is a really close parallel (0°05'). There are some similar things that are much weaker than a full-on 0°05' aspect would be, e.g., Venus in Sidereal Scorpio is primarily like a Venus-Mars aspect but could also be seen as resembling a Venus-Uranus aspect; but I'd like not to rely on that as an easy-out explanation. I'm curious exactly what traits you see in yourself that you associate with Venus-Uranus; perhaps they arise out of something else in the chart?. (Your strongest Venus colorations are from Mars, both by close dynamic aspect and by sign placement.)

In any case, your Venus-Uranus is the only parallel in your chart that is really usable on the question of whether the parallel aspect is valid, and it's an interesting topic.

FWIW, my own chart is a poor example, since all parallels are also other aspects. Using a strict 1° orb in declination (rather than more complicated, gradient orb structures such as Jayne and others recommended) I have only Venus-Mars, which already are in Class 1 (close) sextile (plus Venus in Scorpio) and Jupiter-Uranus (which are already in 0°17' conjunction).
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:07 am

Contraparralel would actually act as an opposition, so strengthing my Pluto square Moon. My Mercury traits are Mercurial, I'm impulsive talkative, knowledge thirsty, impatient, I have mood swings multiple times a day, I'm impulsive, I enjoy change and chaos. Mercury is designed to throw off fondations and be chaotic.I like the occult sciences practice chaos/ruin magic on a psychological level. I like to prank and I'm highly sarcastic. Also Secretive like Mercury in Scorpio.

I'd say Mercury is not one specific quality, sometimes it's more ego oriented like my sun, or it can act angular and can get me in trouble, or it can act as a critically degreed planet and can be harsh toward others, or it can be like the Vedic says and act as an extension of my very soul. Or it can be a multitude of them acting at once.

Venus is connected to mars harshly, mars connected to Uranus harmonically, Uranus connected back to Venus harmonically. Venus in Scorpio is hyper appearnet in my personality a Venus Uranus ascpect would further charge the poliarity of Venus (overriding its der. in Scorpio).

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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:50 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:07 am
Contraparralel would actually act as an opposition, so strengthing my Pluto square Moon.
My point is that one can't meaningfully ask the question, "Is ScarletDepths like a person with a strong Moon-Pluto aspect?" without the answer being, "Of course she is, she has a very close Moon-Pluto square." There is no means of discerning the parallel since you already have one very strong Moon-Pluto aspect we know about.
My Mercury traits are Mercurial, I'm impulsive talkative, knowledge thirsty, impatient,
That's easily the foreground Mercury (especially in Mars-driven Scorpio) - and Sun-Mercuries aren't as much like that as are Moon-Mercury and angular Mercury. (The impatience and impulsiveness are exactly what we expect from a Mars-conditioned Mercury like yours.)
I have mood swings multiple times a day
Mood swings aren't Mercurial, but you might mean something similar like :all over the place" :) There are several things that show this in your chart, from your Spoke (mutable) Sun to the close Venus-Mars square's condition of heightened passions in everything you do.
I enjoy change and chaos. Mercury is designed to throw off fondations and be chaotic.
Lol, chaos isn't mercurial at all :lol: But there are several things, such as your close Moon-Pluto square, that do very well with frequent disruption and upsetting things.

These are acutely non-Mercurial traits. (Mercury can be a prankster, but not a real upsetter by itself.) Planets like Uranus and Pluto are chaotic, Mars can try to disturb and shake and keep adrenaline pumping, Neptune can stir the storm of psychological chaos, but Mercury just isn't in that mix (and doesn't aspect any of the planets I named except Mars).
I like to prank and I'm highly sarcastic.
Agreed that this is Mercury, especially as in your chart - because it's pure Mercury-Mars. (Mercury partile sextile Mars and in Scorpio.)
Also Secretive like Mercury in Scorpio.
Mercury in Sidereal Scorpio isn't secretive. (That's an error carried over from typical remarks about Tropical Scorpio.) Mercury in Scorpio is very much like Mercury-Mars, including bold, forthright, blunt or sharp depending on which weapon is needed, etc. Here is a summary:
http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=86&p=503#p527
Venus is connected to mars harshly
Sidereal astrologers (like Cosmobiologists and the very best Tropicalists) do not consider the square harsh - just powerful. You have a very powerful, dynamic Venus-Mars square.
Which harmonic? They are 79°01' apart. Closest I see is a 9th (Navamsa/Novien), but that makes for a very wide aspect.
I think there are some typos here. I don't understand these sentences. (And, more than a theory about why it acts one way or another, my earlier question was about what character traits you see yourself as having that you characterize as Venus-Uranus.)
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:02 am

Sorry by harsh I mean powerful and provides conflict that the Native overcomes (vers. Harmonic which doesn't have to be worked towards). I am bulnt Mars Capricorn is my Secretive along with Pluto Scorpio. Mercury leans more than me than I realized I always used to overlook it. Resonance in it is heavyer than resonance between me and my sun any specific reasons why this may be?

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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:39 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:02 am
Sorry by harsh I mean powerful and provides conflict that the Native overcomes
Agreed on powerful. I firmly dispute that there is anything inherently conflictual about squares (or any type of aspect). This is a piece of Tropical fiction that has to die. Cosmobiologists, Siderealists, and a few astute Tropicalists like Charles Carter himself outgrew over half a century ago.
I am bulnt Mars Capricorn is my Secretive...
I'll go with Mars in Cap having a withheld, even secretive side - much as Cap Sun and Moon do.
Mercury leans more than me than I realized I always used to overlook it. Resonance in it is heavyer than resonance between me and my sun any specific reasons why this may be?
I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you mean you get more of a Mercury vibe about yourself than a solar vibe? (Angularity aside, that would be very strange given your Leo Moon.) Since you have a lot of ideas about Mercury that aren't really mercurial, this could just be the way you are labelling things. It could certainly be that your Sun hasn't "opened up" yet - that is, a strong Sun especially shows a keen, highly targeted sense of life-purpose and, until one fully discerns that (which, for most people, takes a few years), life looks less centered, on-target, etc., and more like a quest, wandering, inquiry, etc.

I never asked: What is the source of the 7:28 birth time? Is it a recorded time, or is there some reason to question its accuracy? A wrong birth time would be another thing that could be responsible for your sense that something is "off."

Now, to change the question a bit: Maybe it isn't so much why you feel more Mercurial, since most of your ideas about Mercury are Mercury-Mars ideas. Now, THAT has an easy answer, since Mercury-Mars is your closest aspect (0°06') and is doubled up by Mercury being in Scorpio (which is like a Mercury-Mars aspect all by itself). This is clearly your strongest aspect, and a vivid part of your character.
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:56 am

I googled Mercurial before I wrote about the traits of my character that I found Mercurial.

Yes I'm asking why I didn't resonate with my sun as well as I resonate with Mercury.

Leo moon from what I've read is meh.

I don't get this whole lawful kingly thing I'd rather be alone in a cabin practicing magic and playing with fire in the woods.

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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:16 am

And what's the source of your 7:28 birth time?
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:20 am

My mom.

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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by Danica » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:32 pm

I have Me-Ju and Me-Ur contra-parallels (orb with Ju is 02' and with Ur 38'); have just re-read the interpretative section on those aspects, and I have to say it does feel as an accurate description of my Mercury (which is otherwise without any Ptolemaic aspects to planets).
Maybe they are valid, but weak, and should only be taken into account when there are no other stronger voices?
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Re: Sun Parallel Mercury

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:52 pm

I'd say that they fortify other aspects and act say minor/lesser strength aspects if they are alone.

I've always struggled with my sun signs in all of my charts because they felt secondary or distant to say the least. If you meet me and get to know me or see my surface people peg me as the 8th sign every time (starting with Aries as the first).

I've noticed my mood swings are really like going between Mars and Pluto.

Pluto has a pull that I can't seem to ditch. (I've upset people in different forum with this planet to the point where they gave up and agreed (I wasn't trying to obtain this at least consciously)).

Maybe it's the symbolism in my chart or its effect on my moon? It's Conj. Antares and being in the same sign as Venus, Mercury, and Chiron (is call it a concentration of energy maybe) I'd say the sign is more polarized than say the sign of my sun moon (the sun and the moon themselves only really cover powerfully one part of my persona (Ego or Emotion) where as the Mercury,Venus,Pluto,Chiron cover more area of me (Thinking, loving, healing, transforming). If that makes sense.

I'm trying to figure out if one planet in that CoE has control of that energy or if it's more war like. Mars is important but can an energy from anothe place rule a CoE somewhere else in the chart? (Like in a Stellium does a planet rule from inside it's walls or does it rule externally).

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