Natal aspect interpretations - Outer Planets

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Natal aspect interpretations - Outer Planets

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:49 am

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Jupiter-Saturn aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:50 am

PRINCIPLE: Striving for success, earning one's place, gain & loss

JUPITER-SATURN
Practical, sensible (especially with finances). Responsible, conscientious, determined. Courageous, effective survivors; rarely halted by adversity. Patient hard work (earning one's place, success through industry) brings the most reliable rewards. Balances gain & loss: what can be won from losing, what it costs to win (cf. politics, finance; making lemonade from lemons). Attuned to legacy, heritage, tradition. Cornerstones of their families or circles. Orthodoxies draw their strong allegiance or opposition (the most creative become baselines of new orthodoxies).

A post on my evolving thoughts and invitation to public discussion is here:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2209#p15870

ANCESTOR WORSHIP or FAMILY TRADITION motif is apparent with this aspect, including many who continue a family legacy or have dynastic fame not readily separate from that of a parent or child.

FAGAN-FIREBRACE: Those whose incomes are derived from the land, real estate, wills, legacies, bequests, or from interest from money held in trust.

U.S. PRESIDENTS
CONJ: Martin Van Buren,
OPP/SQR: William Henry Harrison
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Jupiter-Uranus aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:50 am

PRINCIPLE: Progress, achievement through atypical paths, surprising luck

JUPITER-URANUS
Minds interested in and well-suited to science, philosophical inquiry, and self-inquiry (knack for astrology). Success through unlikely paths (likely to succeed in life and distinguish themselves, thought leaders). Committed to progress, instinct for exceptionalism. Ingenuity, insight (sees outside usual maps, pathways, and systems; thinks on a broader scale). Respectful while unbeholden to artificial rank, class, or caste (it's unimportant to them); gently resists authority (conflict with authority), speaks truth to power, stands against injustice, egalitarian (social activist). (Updated 2/4/19)
GARTH ALLEN wrote:When a Jupiter-Uranus formation is prominent in the birthchart, the ego is free to think apart from partisan prejudices, often to the point of seeing merit where merit exists in the enemy's camp itself. Because Jupiter-Uranus is able to project itself impersonally to think and appreciate in abstract terms, and instinctively dislikes caste distinctions, this team is the sponsor of Freedom From Authoritarianism. The native does not make blanket moral evaluations of persons, and thinks on a broader scale than do the local gentry.
FAGAN-FIREBRACE: Those who amass a fortune through their own efforts but more especially through speculation.

U.S. PRESIDENTS
OPP/SQR: Martin Van Buren, John F. Kennedy
TRI/SEX: George Washington, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Donald Trump

STATISTICS wrote:Magnificently represented among heads of states (Eshelman)

A strikingly high number of these among Solunars registrants over the years.
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Jupiter-Neptune aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:50 am

PRINCIPLE: Social idealism, faith & belief, unreasoning optimism

JUPITER-NEPTUNE
Idealist (social idealist), dreams of "something better" (impressionable; desires worthy idols). Unreasoned optimism, faith (drawn to "too good to be true"). Generous (excessively? unwisely?). Compassionate, humanitarian. Conviction we thrive better together: cohesive, collective, community-building. Works best from a "big picture" (moving pieces within it). Forges a distinctive world-view (a window on reality to share). Entertainment (actor, filmmaker, music, literature). Religious, spiritual, mystical interests. Impractical (unrealistic, fantasy) relationship to money (speculation). (Updated 2/24/19)
  1. Idealist (including social idealists), dreams of "something better"; moved by inspiring vision (impressionable, desires worthy idols). (Practical or impractical depending on the rest of the chart.)
  2. Unreasoned optimism, faith (drawn to things "too good to be true": the dream or ideal persists independent of feasibility). - Usually eyes wide open about this discrepancy of the dream and feasibility, which doesn't dissuade either practical action or committed dreaming (hope).
  3. Misplaced optimism is possible; but this honestly optimistic group is not particularly prone to disillusionment.
  4. Generous (sometimes excessively, unwisely).
  5. Compassionate (humanitarian): natural love of humanity and a view larger than themselves.
  6. Socially cohesive, collective (group, community, family: favoring the collective, community-building). Conviction that we thrive better together (socialism).
  7. Their best practical results come from a high, inclusive overview, "big picture," seeing a larger terrain (then moving pieces or shuffling conditions from that perspective).
  8. Intellectual or artistic leaders forging a vision (defining a worldview); wants to provide a window through which others view reality (opinionated). Notebook #93 observations: (Conjunction-Opposition-Square) Strongly opinionated intellectual leaders, seeking to strike a path for others to follow.
  9. Entertainment (actors, filmmakers, music, literature, etc.).
  10. Drawn to religious, spiritual, mystical matters; yet also science. (The commonality probably is a macro, all-inclusive world-view.)
  11. Politics (tending liberal and favoring collective benefit, but not invariably). Law (numerous Supreme Court justices, including pivotal chief justices).
  12. Traditionally, prone to speculation (gambling; often not successfully). There is at least some indication of this in the samples and it matches the broader character, including an impractical (unrealistic, even fantasy) relationship to money.

A thread on this aspect in mundane astrology, building from fundamental symbolism:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2882

U.S. PRESIDENTS
CONJ: Franklin D. Roosevelt
OPP/SQR: Grover Cleveland, Theodore Roosevelt
TRI/SEX: John Tyler
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Jupiter-Pluto aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:51 am

PRINCIPLE: Outlier ambition, singular, extraordinary achievement or fall

JUPITER-PLUTO
Thrives being controversial within their (social or political) circles. Strong desire to contribute. Feels unbound by precedent. Unapologetic genuineness + commitment to community (family, group, tribe); social outlier but not aloof. Controversial, appears rebellious against contemporary structures (social, intellectual, political). May hunger to "be something," especially seen, accepted, affirmed by others. Self-improvement indifferent to the rules. Success and prosperity fluctuate (roller-coaster), may not last; may overestimate own importance or standing. (Updated 3/9/19)
  1. Thrives being controversial within their (social or political) circles.
  2. Strong desire to contribute from their distinctive talents or abilities.
  3. Feels unbound by precedent.
  4. Joins unapologetic genuineness with commitment to community (= family, group, tribe, etc.); distinctive presence, rarely lost or submerged in a group (social outlier but not aloof or removed). "Of, but not part of..."
  5. Can appear rebellious against contemporary social, intellectual, and political structures (controversial), but it's usually unmasked authenticity more than rebellion.
  6. Self-improvement indifferent to other people's rules.
  7. Many have a hunger to "be something," especially to be noticed, accepted, and affirmed by others for what they (distinctly? exclusively?) are.
  8. Success and prosperity fluctuate like a roller-coaster.
  9. Unusual number of heads of state and other eminent politicians. (May overestimate their own importance or standing.) Often eminence or other success has not lasted once the ultimate position was secured (e.g., Napoleon, Richard Nixon, Andrew Johnson, Clifford Irving, Alexander Dubcek, Chris Christie), though sometimes it has long endured (e.g., Konrad Adenauer, Margaret Thatcher, Vladimir Putin, Orrin Hatch, numerous popes).
  10. Unusual number of notorious killers (Angelo Buono, Ian Brady, James Degorsky, Ted Bundy, Stephen Paddock, Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite), perhaps reflective of a larger notoriety tendency (to the above political falls, add Mata Hari).
NOTE: It's a mistake to interpret Jupiter-Pluto in terms of power-motives or leadership traits as is commonly done. They do have a strong desire to contribute within their communities (which may also be linked to a strong need for acceptance or affirmation from the group of their distinctive, sometimes quirky nature). They also see themselves as exceptional in key respects. But the power motive itself is not the driver unless provided by other chart factors (and, if attained, often leads to a great fall).

Notebook #93 observations: (Opposition-Square) Rarely do they blend in or get "lost" in a group. They tend to cast themselves as outsiders - not aloof so much as insisting on being distinguished from "the crowd" in an at least somewhat outlier social style.
John Kahila AA 8/70 wrote:..Jupiter trine Pluto turns out to be the mark of one who is intensely committed to the study of philosophy and religion in some way.
U.S. PRESIDENTS
CONJ: James Monroe, Andrew Johnson
OPP/SQR: John Tyler, Richard Nixon
TRI/SEX: Harry S Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson
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Saturn-Uranus aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:51 am

PRINCIPLE: Autonomy, ingenuity, harsh reality, constraint vs. freedom

SATURN-URANUS
Conjunction/Opposition/Square: Well-developed autonomy firmly defended; self-willed (acting out). Resists persuasion: navigates life and makes decisions on own terms (cantankerous obstinacy but not necessarily confrontational about it). Hard to pigeon-hole, thinks and acts outside of stereotypes. Need to "find their own word" and give it voice. Much of their life is about "holding it together" (some succeed, some don't). (Updated 4/1/2019)

Trine/Sextile: More lone wolf than team-player. Autonomous, self-willed, resists persuasion, makes decisions on own terms. Hard to pigeon-hole, thinks and acts outside of stereotypes or expectations. Much of their life is spent “holding it together.”
  1. Autonomy is well-developed and firmly defended. "Rugged individualist," self-willed (acting out).
  2. Resistant to persuasion (stubborn), they navigate their lives and make decisions on their own terms, often going to great lengths to ensure they are making independent decisions and not taking someone's advice. (Cantankerous obstinacy, uncooperative, but not necessarily confrontational about it.)
  3. Averse to being doctrinally dependent on others.
  4. Resists easy categorization, hard to pigeon-hole; thinks and acts outside of stereotypes. More resistant than most people to mass-mind patterning.
  5. Need to "find their own word" and give it voice.
  6. Much of their life is about "holding it together" (enduring, determined). Some succeed admirably at this, others have less success
.
Notebook #93 observations: (Trine-Sextile) They tend to keep their distance from other people and stay detached.

Observation: I find it interesting that both Joseph Smith and Aleister Crowley - two modern "prophets of the book" - have close, major Saturn-Uranus aspects. (Add Crowley's wife and collaborator, Rose Crowley.) I think the central point is their need for personal autonomy in all things, including a psychological aversion to being doctrinally dependent on or responsive on others, causing them to "strike out on their own" and find their own voice in the matter.
GARTH ALLEN wrote:An inability to fully participate in a common sharing of interests, enthusiasm, or objective, is traceable to Saturn-Uranus vibrations. There is a retarding of the capacity to yield to outside pressure, a not daring to show one's weaknesses of either the flesh or the mind, which is why the native often has a virtue complex and hates to be caught off guard and proven to be human like everybody else. Because its keywords range from "rigid self-centeredness" to "emotional restraint" and "antisentimentalism," Saturn-Uranus represents Freedom From Surrender. In a sense, then, such a combination is historically if not socially constructive - it creating that kind of endurance, self-respect, and resistance to mass hysteria which oppressive powers have never been able to quell for long. These people may cringe at the thought of kissing grandma goodbye, but are in there swinging when somebody else offends the old gal.
U.S. PRESIDENTS
OPP/SQR: Herbert Hoover
TRI/SEX: Warren G. Harding
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Saturn-Neptune aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:52 am

PRINCIPLE: Material vs. immaterial, tenuous boundaries, renunciation, asylum

SATURN-NEPTUNE
Bridges the practical & material with the idealistic & immaterial. (Most bridge it well.) Can render a vision concrete and believable, make something solid from an idea (creativity realized, plans executed; visual and musical artists, counselors, problem solvers). Frequently indifferent to material security. Devotion, loyalty (possible intrigue, deception, suspicion, betrayal). Many withdraw, enter seclusion, asylum, exile. Chronic (disabling?) physical or psychological afflictions (can include dark, troubled states, depression, disappointment, distrust, struggling with demons).
  1. Bridges the conceptual, idealistic, and immaterial with the concrete, practical, and material. (Most bridge it well; a few struggle with it.)
  2. Can render a vision concrete and believable, translate the metaphysical to the physical, make something solid from an idea. (Creativity realized, plans executed, visual and musical artists, counselors, even "handymen.")
  3. Seem little concerned (indifferent?) about material security.
  4. Many withdraw from the world or enter hiding or exile (institutionalized or imprisoned in extreme cases). Removal, exile, seclusion, expatriation, emigration, asylum; creating sanctuary, refuge, or haven. (Creates personal reality bubble, or "prevailing fiction" around which they've built their identity and self-expression, as haven.)
  5. Trine & sextile are even more likely to withdraw or seem hidden or "missing" than the dynamic aspects.
  6. Capable of great devotion and loyalty.
  7. Possibly caught up in intrigue, deception, suspicion, secrecy, betrayal (common themes of the politicians and artists).
  8. Chronic (sometimes disabling) physical or psychological afflictions (can include dark, deeply troubled mental states, depression, disappointment, distrust, labile moods, struggling with demons).
  9. Unusual number of killers including Bruno Hauptman, Dennis Rader (BTK), Stephen Paddock, Nikolas Cruz, and attempted murderer Valerie Solanas.
  10. Unusual number of powerful rulers & politicians including Czar Catherine II of Russia, King Charles II, King George III, Queen Victoria, Queen Elizabeth II, Pres. Abraham Lincoln, Dalai Lama, PM Tony Blair, Pres. Vladimir Putin, Sen. John McCain, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Benazir Bhutto, Gov. Jeb Bush, Heinrich Himmler.
  11. Numerous popes & saints, including Pope Benedict XV, Pope Clement IV, Pope Clement VII, Pope Clement XIV, Pope Francis, Pope Julius III, Pope Leo IX, Pope Pius IX, George Cecil Jones, St. Therese of Lisieux.
Interpreting Solar Returns wrote:At their worst, [Saturn & Neptune] are anxiety- and sickness-producing. In a more pure form, however, they are world-defining. Neptune ultimately signifies the way we model our experience of the world: what we perceive, how we interpret it, and what we choose to believe as a result. As none of us is psychologically or physiologically capable of perceiving everything in the objective Universe, Neptune represents our capacity to shift and sort. Similarly, Saturn symbolizes objective structure, form, and pattern. When combined, these planets symbolize the capacity to take a vision of the world and imbue it with material substance and believability. Saturn-Neptune people commonly have unyielding models, which becomes a problem if they preclude important options. This is one reason, along with their often frustrated idealism, that Saturn-Neptune aspects are infamous for troubled mental states. Both planets, though in different ways, require much security....
Some examples of real outcomes are discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=73#p380

An expanded discussion of the "removal" theme is here:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3064#p22944

U.S. PRESIDENTS
CONJ: Abraham Lincoln
TRI/SEX: Benjamin Harrison, Richard M. Nixon
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Saturn-Pluto aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:52 am

PRINCIPLE: Solitary survival, realism, hardship

SATURN-PLUTO
"Runs their own show," resists outside control. Even as an employee, wants autonomy. Lone wolf: solitary path comes naturally, partnership requires choice & effort. Rejects arbitrary expectations. Survivors: Great strength, self-reliance, & persistence in the face of hardship (stubborn, entrenched; pays the necessary price). Conscientious. Tough as nails (especially the women) but can become hard, cut-off, alienated. By taking everything on themselves, can feel they carry the world's weight. (Obsessive-compulsive.)
  1. "Runs their own show," resists outside control. Even as an employee, wants autonomy.
  2. Lone wolf: a solitary path comes naturally, while partnership or alliance requires choice and effort.
  3. Rejects arbitrary labels or expectations.
  4. Survivors: Great strength, self-reliance, and persistence in the face of hardship (stubborn, entrenched; pays the necessary price).
  5. Conscientious.
  6. Tough as nails (especially the women), but can become hardened, cut-off, alienated.
  7. By taking everything on themselves, can feel they are carrying the weight of the world. (Obsessive-compulsive.)
U.S. PRESIDENTS
OPP/SQR: William McKinley
TRI/SEX: Calvin Coolidge
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Uranus-Neptune aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:53 am

PRINCIPLE: Clash of realities, social revision, myth

URANUS-NEPTUNE
Wanderlust, curious explorer, drawn to peer or push past horizons. Colliding realities & social revision impact life. Rules haven't been discovered for one's life (maps not yet drawn, "nobody knows what my life is like"). Mythic, ritualistic sense of one's position in the universal scheme (need to discern one's role). Knows that life & reality are more mystical & inscrutable (or just plain weird!) than anyone ever said. High-strung, sensitive, easily agitated.
  1. Wanderlust, curious explorer, drawn to peer (or push) past horizons. (This is reflected in scientists such as Galileo, Pasteur, and Curie, in philosophers Kant, Renan, and Russell, among other examples.)
  2. Life directly impacted by a collision of realities including social revision. (The psychic energy around this is quite powerful.)
  3. Acts as if rules have not yet been discovered or written for their life (maps not yet drawn, "nobody knows what my life is like").
  4. A mythic or ritualistic feeling of one's own unique position in the eternal scheme of the Universe, and need to discern one's role.
  5. Instinctively understanding that life and reality are more complex, mystical, and inscrutable (or just plain weird), than our parents and teachers ever told us.
  6. High-strung, intense, sensitive, testy, easily agitated.
  7. It's not so much that one has "extraordinary and unusual inclinations" (as Ebertin wrote), but that one knows the universe or reality is more "extraordinary and unusual" than one was ever told - hence the thrust to be explorer, inquirer, questioner no matter how otherwise prosaic one's life is.
  8. One expects a Dependence-independence dilemma from these planets. Looking at actual examples (including people who have this aspect rightly integrated with their personal planets), I don't see an unusual presence of this conflict.
Charles Carter felt, on examination of charts, "these aspects do affect individuals, and I cannot say that it seems necessary to restrict the orbs of aspect very much in judging them. But the effects are naturally most noticeable when the planets occupy prominent house-positions and receive other aspects."
GARTH ALLEN wrote:Neptune-Uranus, we are guessing, imbues a Freedom From Conscience, if socio-political phenomena down the centuries, when these planets were in major formation, are correctly analyzed. During the decade or so, from time to time, that this pair is operating in world affairs, it seems that nobody gives a damn about what is right or wrong, rather asking if it is convenient - the code word of a Beat Generation. This pair is ingenious in the truest sense, purveyors of grand ideas with the gumption to put them into effect.
Garth Allen on Sir Richard Burton wrote:That Uranus-Neptune conjunction within two minutes of arc only accented the pattern of traits from his over-endowment by Pluto, stressing his otherworldliness, his lack of orthodoxy and his hatred of the conventional. During the course of this same conjunction, several other potent personalities were ushered into the world to become legends. Uranus-Neptune basically means progress through delusion; for instance, three famous daughters of this conjunction were Victoria Regina, Mary Baker Eddy, and Lydia E. Pinkham, a trio of epoch-makers par excellence who were among the Nineteeth Century's most famous women.
[NOTE: I find fascinating the virtual absence of any significant MUSIC celebrities with this aspect, Victor Borgia being the only (and atypical) one example outside of, say, the David Lee Roth kind of rock-and-roll phenomenon.
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Uranus-Pluto aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:53 am

PRINCIPLE: Authentic, singularly unique, revolution, transformation

URANUS-PLUTO
Feels unbound by precedent, custom, convention, or authority: willing to ignore, challenge, or forcibly reject them. Open to new ways, wider horizons; yet rarely disruptive without immediate cause. Physically restless, impatient (possibly frustrated, angry). Authenticity & creative self-expression arise best from solitude (vacuum). In youth, often seem directionless; this resolves as they find their center of gravity (especially after age 30).
  1. Feels unbound by precedent, custom, convention, or authority: willing to ignore, challenge, or forcibly reject them: open to new ways, wider horizons.
  2. Yet rarely disruptive without immediate cause.
  3. Physically restless, impatient (frustrated, angry).
  4. Authenticity & creative self-expression arise best from solitude (vacuum).
  5. In youth, often seem without direction. This resolves as they find their center of gravity, especially after age 30.
GARTH ALLEN wrote:...Freedom From Commonness. In Pluto paired off with Uranus we believe we see a standoffish attitude which recoils from anything that might detract from what a psychologist calls the Guiding Fiction in one's daily existence. All people are driven by a Guiding Fiction in life and it seems abnormally forceful in Pluto-Uranus souls.
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Neptune-Pluto aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 12:54 am

PRINCIPLE: Conception, worldview-forging, surreal, uncertainty

NEPTUNE-PLUTO
Leaders display capacity & desire to impose a worldview (scientific, political, literary). More typically, uncertainty about the world, desire for certainty (for the world to be a particular way). Thinking in absolutes, adopts & holds a worldview, rejects its competitors, regards things a certain way & not other. (Suspicion, bigotry, doctrinal narrowness, threatened by things becoming other than how they've been.)
  1. Instinctive (usually unconscious) understanding of the malleability of the view of reality.
  2. Among leaders, capacity and desire to put forth and impose a worldview (scientific, political, literary).
  3. More typically, uncertainty about the world and a consequent desire for certainty (for the world to be a particular way).
  4. More centered in experience than in thought.
  5. Thinking in absolutes: adopts and holds a worldview, rejects its competitors, regards things a certain way and not other.
  6. Suspicion, bigotry, doctrinal narrowness, threatened by things becoming other than how they've known them.
  7. Sextile & Trine: Marked about half a century of people open to shifting paradigms, exploration of alternate realities, etc. Characteristically more open to shifting point of view, alternative perspectives, variant possibilities.
A primary thread on developing ideas related to this aspect can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3081
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Re: Saturn-Uranus aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:15 pm

I just did a significant top-to-bottom reinvestigation and rewrite of the Saturn-Uranus natal aspect.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 12:51 am
Well-developed autonomy, firmly defended; self-willed (acting out). Resists persuasion: navigates life and makes decisions on own terms (cantankerous obstinacy but not necessarily confrontational about it). Hard to pigeon-hole, thinks and acts outside of stereotypes. Need to "find their own word" and give it voice. Much of their life is about "holding it together" (some succeed, some don't).
All the Jupiter aspects (to Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto) were recently updated as well. (The Interpretation Template for download has also been updated to include these.)
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Re: Natal aspect interpretations - Outer Planets

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:27 pm

I've now finished the rewrite of Saturn-Neptune above. A great deal new was learned and old ideas dismissed and tossed. Enough change that I even rewrote the Principle.
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Re: Natal aspect interpretations - Outer Planets

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:32 pm

Uranus-Pluto is now done. Only Neptune-Pluto to go.
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