Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Q&A and discussion on Houses including house models and domification systems.
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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:26 pm

Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:08 pm
Are house systems anything more than a way to display angularity? I see proximity to an angular point as a way to display angularity.

Either house systems mean something more than middleground in the private sector, or they don't have any real meaning. I don't believe planets in the second house affect the native's money. I think that's "horary astrology" which I've seen work really well, but only as a means to focus psychic abilities. What is there to house systems that's more than a means of judging angularity?

Is there anything there at all?

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:26 pm

Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:25 am
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:Are house systems anything more than a way to display angularity? I see proximity to an angular point as a way to display angularity.

They may be, or not. I'm unwilling to take a firm stand for them because we don't have anything - not one study - that substantiates the existence of houses the way we have demonstrations of the fundamental structure of the zodiac existing, or the phenomenon of angularity. Against this, I note that the statistical study of houses is, by far, the biggest challenge, the most complicated study, of all the astrological basics.
s
In subjective observation, it seems to me that the interpretations are justified that I give here:
http://www.solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12
Yet, without a substantial, persuasive demonstration of the actuality of a house system per se, much as we have for signs, I am unwilling to state this more definitively.
I don't believe planets in the second house affect the native's money.
Me either, especially stated that way. Any effect needs to be characterological. It does seem, from anecdotal summation, that people with Sun in 2nd have an unusually keen sense of ownership and possessiveness, identify their egos with their resources, and acquire a sense of power or ego-fulfillment from harnessing their resources. People with Moon in 2nd seem more shrewd, tenacious, and persevering, are highly protective of things they regard as "theirs," and are strongly reliant on personal resources. Then again, I could be fooling myself based on too little evidence.

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:32 pm

Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:34 pm
Jim Eshelman wrote: Against this, I note that the statistical study of houses is, by far, the biggest challenge, the most complicated study, of all the astrological basics.
If I were going to do a study of houses, which I am not, I would look for people who'd lived in an area for awhile, then moved elsewhere permanently (i.e. "moved houses") (sorry) and look at how the planets that changed houses had changed expression. Not ease of expression, or mode of expression, but the venue of expression. I would probably avoid including planets that moved into or out of angularity.

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:33 pm

Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:39 pm
Jim Eshelman wrote:No tentative confidence I have in houses extends to relocation houses. U dismiss them summarily :)

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:33 pm

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:41 pm
Well, I dismiss houses summarily anyway so that works for me.

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:35 pm

Oct 19, 2015 3:01 pm
Arena wrote:Actually JSAD, it seems like my Solar fire does not calculate the same point for EP as yours according to what you stated above about my children's charts. I also look to the 90 square to MC when I look at the EP.

It does seem like people in here mostly disregard the houses and only use Campanus to measure angularity.

I did learn something from reading Jim's book. Seems like those planets that are square to the MC actually can be considered as "brought to an angle" because it activates the angle. So maybe that is the reason I see them so expressive in my children.

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:37 pm

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:02 pm
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:Well, I dismiss houses summarily anyway so that works for me.
I was thinking... OK, I lived 20 years in Indiana then moved to California where my Sun moved to 2nd house, Moon moved to 7th, and I eventually started making money and having relationships.

Or, of course, the simpler example is that I grew up, started making money, and started having relationships. :D

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:38 pm

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:21 pm
Arena wrote:I did learn something from reading Jim's book. Seems like those planets that are square to the MC actually can be considered as "brought to an angle" because it activates the angle. So maybe that is the reason I see them so expressive in my children.
Yes, the east point is also an angle. Nobody's said different. The vertex is yet another angle. If you read Jim's section here about angles, as well as in his Solar Return book, you'll see he's said that repeatedly, and as far as I can remember, nobody here has disagreed.

You seemed to want to discard the Asc completely and only use the Ept. I explained why the evidence you were presenting for discarding the ASC didn't seem evidential to me, but your mileage may differ. Until this message I had no idea you didn't realize the Ept is also an angle. That's why Jim keeps saying angles don't take aspects, and squares to one angle are conjunctions to other angles. The orb for the Ept, as Jim said previously in this thread, is about 1°.

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:40 pm

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:32 pm
Arena wrote:Actually JSAD, it seems like my Solar fire does not calculate the same point for EP as yours according to what you stated above about my children's charts.
Check which charts - the birth charts, relocated birth charts, or mundoscopes both natal and relocated. I'm no longer where I can check what I used, so you'll have to figure it out if it's important to you. If looking at the different charts doesn't help, I don't know what the difference might be. I would be using the default way SF calculates it.

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:41 pm

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:34 pm
Jim Eshelman wrote:The way to test:

Somebody post an exact date, time, city, and what EP is. Somebody else is that data to vascular & compare.

E.g., August 4, 1961, 7:29 PM AHST, Honolulu, HI, Solar Fire gives EP 0°10' Aquarius. Does everybody get this?

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:42 pm

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:12 pm
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Danica wrote:I get 01*27' Aquarius (the point marked Eq in SF)
And I get 1 28. The longitude/latitude generated for Honolulu is 21N18'25", 157W51'30", is that what you are using? (SF default.)

Trying to figure out why the stored copy I have gives a different result and, duh, it's because the time on it is 7:24, not 7:29 (duh) - so of course it gets a different result, a little over a degree different. Ignore my previous 0:10.

We're now down to results within 1' of each other, and should be able to eradicate that difference.

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:44 pm

Oct 20, 2015 12:18 pm
Arena wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Danica wrote:I get 01*27' Aquarius (the point marked Eq in SF)
And I get 1 28. The longitude/latitude generated for Honolulu is 21N18'25", 157W51'30", is that what you are using? (SF default.)

Trying to figure out why the stored copy I have gives a different result and, duh, it's because the time on it is 7:24, not 7:29 (duh) - so of course it gets a different result, a little over a degree different. Ignore my previous 0:10.

We're now down to results within 1' of each other, and should be able to eradicate that difference.
I get 1,28 Aq for that EP

Why isn't it 90° square to MC?

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:45 pm

Oct 20, 2015 12:18 pm
Arena wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Danica wrote:I get 01*27' Aquarius (the point marked Eq in SF)
And I get 1 28. The longitude/latitude generated for Honolulu is 21N18'25", 157W51'30", is that what you are using? (SF default.)

Trying to figure out why the stored copy I have gives a different result and, duh, it's because the time on it is 7:24, not 7:29 (duh) - so of course it gets a different result, a little over a degree different. Ignore my previous 0:10.

We're now down to results within 1' of each other, and should be able to eradicate that difference.
I get 1,28 Aq for that EP

Why isn't it 90° square to MC?

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:46 pm

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:24 pm
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Arena wrote:Why isn't it 90° square to MC?
It's square the MC in right ascension (along the equator), not in longitude (along the ecliptic).

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:46 pm

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:36 pm
For 7:29 I get Eq 01Aqu27:37
For 7:24 I get Eq 00Aqu:09:55

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:47 pm

Oct 20, 2015 4:22 pm
Danica wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Danica wrote:I get 01*27' Aquarius (the point marked Eq in SF)
And I get 1 28. The longitude/latitude generated for Honolulu is 21N18'25", 157W51'30", is that what you are using? (SF default.)
yes, exactly that
in Chart Points Report, it says: 01*27'36'' Aquarius

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Re: Frederici's "Universal Domification System"

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun May 14, 2017 10:48 pm

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:16 pm
FlorencedeZ. wrote:I get 01*27' Aquarius.

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