Campanus is for Dreamers, Too

Q&A and discussion on Houses including house models and domification systems.
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Danica
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Campanus is for Dreamers, Too

Post by Danica » Mon May 15, 2017 10:56 am

Nov 28, 2013
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:Now and again, I have come across statements of this sort: That those who use the Campanus house system tend to be “technical astrologers” or have a “technical bent.” I think this is a silly assertion for many reasons. One is that several house schemes have come from technically or mathematically inclined astrologers (such as Topocentric). Another is that it tends to divide astrologers into false (or at least undesirable) categories. We all desire to interpret better. We all should also strive to understand the geometric model of the system we're using, whether we're speaking of houses or any other physical side of our study.

It has often been pointed out that Cyril Fagan and we siderealists after him use Campanus, apparently proving the point. Yet Dane Rudhyar, founder of the “Humanist School” of astrology also used it. I am unaware of any grand philosophic reason he did so, and not some other house system, but I'm sure there was one. Nevertheless, this fact goes unremarked by such commentators.

I think it is silly for personal reasons as well, since I did not choose Campanus blindly (simply because “siderealists use it”) nor for mathematically technical considerations (which I didn't know).

My first instruction book was “Astrology” by Ronald C. Davison. Chapter Four “The Houses of the Horoscope” gives a brief overview of the idea of the houses. Shortly afterward, I went outside one clear night and tried to visualize what he might be talking about. In my mind's eye, I saw the horizon, the meridian, and four other arcs in the sky. I must have been 13 years old then, and it was several years before I understood the geometric descriptions of many of the house systems. It was then I discovered that what I'd visualized was the Campanus system, not the Placidus recommended by Davison.

I arrived at Campanus through intuition, contrary to the usual narrative. I certainly don't claim to have had any psychic insight into the nature of houses. Instead, I probably think about houses the same way ol' Campanus did.

I still use Campanus for measuring angularity, while modifying it with narrow zones in ways discussed elsewhere here on Solunars.net. But being both imaginative and technical, I have dreamed up about two or three other house systems as well, some or all of which may or may not have been independently devised by others. I've chosen not to burden my fellow astrologers with such flights of fancy, but I may soon share one scheme in particular that may have characteristics that might be . . . well, worthy of comment, and totally lacking in evidence.

Perhaps this little personal anecdote would be interesting to some.

-Derek
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Danica
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Re: Campanus is for Dreamers, Too

Post by Danica » Mon May 15, 2017 10:56 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:You're right. I'd completely forgotten that Rudhyar used Campanus.

He was born in Paris. I assume his thinking had something to do with how his own chart looked :D
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Re: Campanus is for Dreamers, Too

Post by Danica » Mon May 15, 2017 10:56 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:Looking at his chart... which I haven't done in ages... impressions as I go...

Gosh, if looking at his Campanus chart would make him adopt Campanus, how in the world could he look at his Pisces-Aquarius Sidereal luminaries and not be similarly moved ;)

He was born in 1895. I knew that, but now it takes me by surprise. I actually knew someone born in 1895 that wasn't, say, my grandfather? Time passes, yeah? He was born two Saturn orbits before me, and another two have passed since then.

House differences between his horoscope and Mundoscope... none, actually. But the Mundoscope makes clearer how strong his Mars is. (OK, so that's why, in his heart of hearts, he had no trouble accepting himself as an Aries.) Mars is 3° below the Descendant, slightly closer than Neptune (with which it is in close mundane, as in ecliptical, conjunction - yes, he could be a moving, persuasive son of a gun).

House differences between Campanus and Placidus for him: Only one (or, depending on how you count cusps, there are two). Saturn is in the 10th house in Campanus, the 11th house in Placidus. Uranus is in the 11th house either way, but in partile conjunction with the 12th cusp in Placidus. If he actually based his decision in any way on his own chart, these are the only differences.

I may have to pull his house book off the shelf for the first time in, oh, 30 years and reread some of it. He may actually have addressed this point in there somewhere.
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Re: Campanus is for Dreamers, Too

Post by Danica » Mon May 15, 2017 10:57 am

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:He may actually have addressed this point in there somewhere.
Here we go:

http://khaldea.com/rudhyar/astroarticle ... nt.php#a_r

There is a point in this essay where Rudhyar says:
"Yet the Campanus method is more in accord with the type of understanding of the framework of houses which I have attempted to convey, as it is more basically a method of division of the space itself which surrounds the new-born."
I think, at basis, this is a fundamental point of agreement, at the outset, with my early exercise in visualizing houses. The article is worth reading; it is not all wrong nor wrong-headed. But as Rudhyar is indeed a "persuasive son of a gun" one must be alert to where he slips into leaps of logic and presents his intuitions as facts for all of us. To his credit, Rudhyar was honest enough to indicate when he was doing this; as a reader, you must be sharp enough to notice it.

-Derek
.
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Re: Campanus is for Dreamers, Too

Post by Danica » Mon May 15, 2017 10:57 am

Freya wrote:
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:
I still use Campanus for measuring angularity, while modifying it with narrow zones in ways discussed elsewhere here on Solunars.net. But being both imaginative and technical, I have dreamed up about two or three other house systems as well, some or all of which may or may not have been independently devised by others. I've chosen not to burden my fellow astrologers with such flights of fancy, but I may soon share one scheme in particular that may have characteristics that might be . . . well, worthy of comment, and totally lacking in evidence.

Perhaps this little personal anecdote would be interesting to some.

-Derek
Very interesting Derek! Feel free to burden me with your flights of fancy, I am interested to hear about your insights on new house models
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