Horizontal House System

Q&A and discussion on Houses including house models and domification systems.
Post Reply
User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Horizontal House System

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 7:42 am

This is primarily for Arena, and to stir a bit of discussion if it goes that way.

Arena, since you're looking for a different vision of houses etc. in polar regions, I wanted to direct your attention to the Horizontal house system. It has some interesting theoretical considerations. (This isn't an endorsement of the system, just a jabbering discussion.)

As you know, I'm averse to the idea that a whole different way of framing the mundane picture of a chart would change as one moves around the globe. What I find intellectually engaging is that the Campanus and Horizontal systems are essentially two parts of one larger system. My intellectual objections could be overcome by the idea that there is a larger framework that is the persisting "single system," but, like a jewel examined from different sides, it sometimes emphasizes one framework and sometimes another.

Here are descriptions of each, and of the larger framework. I think you understand the terms Meridian, Horizon, and Prime Vertical, but, just in case you don't (or somebody reading this doesn't), I'll review simply. These three great circles are all mutually perpendicular: each is at right angles to the other two. Visualize as I describe briefly:
(1) Find the point directly over your head, the Zenith, and also make sure you know where north, south, east, and west are.
(2) Imagine a circle that passes right over your head and beneath your feet, and crosses the horizon due north and south. This is the Meridian. (Where the ecliptic crosses it are the MC or IC.)
(3) Imagine the horizon itself, not as the visible horizon but as a great circle running through due east, due south, due west, due north. This would be the "equator" of the sphere that has Zenith (straight up) and Nadir (straight down) as its poles. It is at right angles to the Meridian you just identified. (Where the ecliptic crosses this circle are Ascendant and Descendant.)
(3) Now add a third circle, at right angles to both of them: It rises due east, passes over head, sets due west, and passes under your feet. This is the Prime Vertical. (Where the ecliptic crosses this are the Vertex and Antivertex.)

The CAMPANUS HOUSE SYSTEM divides the Prime Vertical into equal parts. Notice that the PV is already divided into even quarters (each exactly 90°) by the Horizon and Meridian. Each of these quadrants of the PV is divided into thirds. Great circles are drawn through the north and south points of the Horizon (where the Horizon and Meridian, the other two circles, intersect) through these division points to divide the whole sphere into 12 even "orange slices," which are the three-dimensional Campanus houses. Where these dividing great circles cross the ecliptic are the house cusps.

Similar but different, the HORIZONTAL HOUSE SYSTEM divides the Horizon into equal parts. Notice that the Horizon is already divided into even quarters (each exactly 90°) by the north-south Meridian and the east-west Prime Vertical. Each of these quadrants of the Horizon is divided into thirds. Great circles are drawn through the zenith and nadir (where the Meridian and Prime Vertical, the other two circles, intersect) through these division points to divide the whole sphere into 12 even "orange slices," which are the three-dimensional Horizontal houses. Where these dividing great circles cross the ecliptic are the house cusps.

(Extra geeky optional paragraph:) A third system - not yet identified or put into use by anyone - is theoretically possible from the final combination of these three great circles. Let's call it the XYZ HOUSE SYSTEM. It would divide the Meridian into equal parts. Notice that the Meridian is already divided into even quarters (each exactly 90°) by the Horizon and Prime Vertical. Each of these quadrants of the Meridian would be divided into thirds. Great circles would be drawn through the east and west points of the horizon (where the Horizon and Prime Vertical, the other two circles, intersect) through these division points to divide the whole sphere into 12 even "orange slices," which are the three-dimensional XYZ houses. Where these dividing great circles cross the ecliptic would be the house cusps. (This one is freaky! he 1st/7th cusp would be the Ascendant-Descendant, the 4th/10th cusp would be the Vertex-Antivertex.)

Anyway... See how Campanus (or the Prime Vertical System) is part of a larger framework that also contains the Horizontal System. The horizontal chart line in the Prime Vertical system (Campanus) is the intersection of the ecliptic and Horizon, i.e., the Ascendant-Descendant. Complementing this, the horizontal line of the Horizon system (Horizontal) is the intersection of the ecliptic and Prime Vertical, i.e., the Antivertex-Vertex.

The Horizontal system behaves near the poles as Campanus behaves near the equator, and vice versa.

Solar Fire, doesn't include the Horizontal system, but it's easy to calculate. In calculating your chart, replace your birth latitude with the negative co-latitude. That is, subtract your birth latitude from 90° and flip the north-south. For example, Arena was born at 66N04. Subtract 66°04' from 90° to get 23°56', and switch it from north to south: Calculate her natal exactly as usual except for 23S56 latitude. (You may have to remove the city name in SF for it to accept the change.)

Arena, take a lok... I think you'll like it. BTW, the "Vertex" in this chart is your actual Descendant, so you can have all the angles available at one.

You can use the Z-Analogue Prime Vertical longitude option to create a mundoscope for this (it will just be azimuth). Whether that is of any real use is another matter... I would have to speculate. - IN FACT, if you use your normal birth chart (don't flip the latitude) and calculate Z-Analogue Azi (an analogue azimuth chart), you get exactly the same thing! - that's how interconnected the two are.

Furthermore, this azimuth chart is called, by some astrologers, a Local Space chart. When I was working Neil Michelsen in the early 1980s, he was experimenting a great deal with Local Space charts, and I backed him in a presentation at a convention once. I can't say I did enough with it to substantiate the system, but there are some fascinating results. It might be that the Local Space (azimuth) is a viable way of looking at the chart on its own merits.

What's cool, though, to my thinking, is that it's arguably the same system as Campanus. Possibly two or three perspectives arise out of the same three-circle framework.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Re: Horizontal House System

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 7:43 am

Arena wrote:As you said above, I might want to cast the Z-analogue Azi chart for this purpose in solar fire. But what about the Z-analogue Altitude chart?
I see they talk a lot about the altitude of the planets at birth in the local space chart text.
I have no opinion, and it's ultimately unrelated to the thread of this thread (so I'm not going to stretch myself on that point <g>).

How are the people you're reading using the altitude, sort of in the same way as parallels of declination but with altitude? It would be interesting to glance at, but two things we've learned from watching parallels is that (1) there is nothing to them and (2) there are often so many that it's easy to convince yourself that there's something to them. I wouldn't be surprised if parallels of altitude displayed the same characteristics.

One can, of course, use altitude to determine what planet has the highest (or lowest) altitude, i.e., a literal "most elevated" planet - which some astrologers think lends a specific significance.
I think there might be some truth to this other side of the Campanus system as you called it. It seems like it was intended for higher latitudes, although I do see in the texts I find about the local space chart that they are thought to be of universal use (for all latitudes).
I think any system that exists will exist for all places on earth that it is possible to express a horoscope (which means every place except the exact, immeasurably small spots of the two poles). I didn't draw your attention to Horizontal to propose an alternative system, so much as to speculate that there is a single larger system of which it is easier to see one side in some locations, and easier to see another side from other locations.

There is a lot more to what people do with local space charts. I haven't gone into that mostly because it wasn't on topic to the thread, and partly because I would only be passing along theory that I can't substantiate. One of the most common uses, since it is azimuth (compass directions) is to say that the LS shows planetary influences "off in a particular direction" from your birth place and, secondarily, from your present place. I remember one astrologer who introduced this idea to me saying he had experienced three or four auto accidents roughly on a line north-northwest of his home (or whatever), and that corresponded to the azimuth of Mars in his LS chart for where he lived. Astrologers most invested in LS use it for relocation - going back to the birth chart in the birth place, as a rule - to find places in earth along your individual planet lines. This is intriguing, and a few people have spoken to me in a clearheaded and passionate way about it, but I can't speak to it with any kind of conviction. I will say that Solar Fire makes it really, really easy to see these paths! Do an astromap and click Lines, then check Local Directions.

Thus for my chart, Sun and Pluto lines leave my birthplace and stream toward Southern California, but (for a totally different feel) a Moon line streams to San Francisco. The same Pluto line that streams to LA in one direction wraps around the earth and passes through New York City. The same Sun line that passes through LA continues to Sydney, which is the only place I've found in the world I'd seriously consider moving to if I had to leave LA (and which, in any case, has other astronomical things in common with LA, being same latitude but South, and exactly 90° around the globe in longitude). My mate has a Jupiter line pass north of San Francisco (which she loves far more than I do), her natal Moon-Pluto conjunction streaming through parts of Alaska she ran off to for a couple of summers for some of her most important experiences, a Sun line streaming near Paris and Rome where she delighted in travelling when very young, etc. Your Sun, Arena, points right to New Zealand, almost precisely to Aukland and even closer to Wellington (not that there is a lot of difference in how far each is from the line).

So there, something for you to play with ;)
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Re: Horizontal House System

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 7:44 am

Arena wrote:What I wonder is how, in theory, would we divide the line? Where does Campanus break apart and Horizontal take over? If that is indeed the case. Would it be around 45 degrees latitude? IF we would entertain this study and take it a bit further, would we somehow define this? If we use the PV mundoscope below 45 degr and then the Azimuth mundoscope for above 45 degr, would that be a start?
I think... totally gut feel, totally intuition.... that if there is anything to this at all, there should be no such rules about it. Not by a location, not with a particular rule, but more like a situation where something completely collapses in on itself and is inconceivable, the psyche compensates by picking up something else to respond to.

What I actually think is that Campanus works 100% of the time for all locations (except the exact poles). But the way the brain works, there are moments or environments or scenarios where incomprehensibility tips the brain to suddenly go a different way. A few moments in one location under particular situations where, for example, every planet is squeezed to within 5° of each and the horizon and each other and there is no separating would suddenly sort itself out in a different perspective. That sort of thing.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Re: Horizontal House System

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 7:46 am

carriere.francois wrote:
Jim Eshelaman wrote:Similar but different, the HORIZONTAL HOUSE SYSTEM divides the Horizon into equal parts. Notice that the Horizon is already divided into even quarters (each exactly 90°) by the north-south Meridian and the east-west Prime Vertical. Each of these quadrants of the Horizon is divided into thirds. Great circles are drawn through the zenith and nadir (where the Meridian and Prime Vertical, the other two circles, intersect) through these division points to divide the whole sphere into 12 even "orange slices," which are the three-dimensional Horizontal houses. Where these dividing great circles cross the ecliptic are the house cusps.
Hello,

I know I have to read the thread all over again (I don't understand the principle behing Horizontal House System). What I would like to know by now, after the colatitude is found, do we still use Campanus (which seems obvious) and do we still check for foreground planets and closed in mundo aspects? Sorry if I look like awkward ;-)

Thank you and best regards,
François
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6891
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Re: Horizontal House System

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 7:46 am

Yes.

the theory of Horizontal is that the horizon is divided into 30° segments.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest