Alienated Son

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Jim Eshelman
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Alienated Son

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:47 pm

(The following letter from "Anguished Parents" appeared in the June 1970 issue of American Astrology. The response is transparently by Donald Bradley, though intentionally not attributed to him. It is a striking example of astrology they way I have sought to practice it, and for the purposes I have sought to practice it, for most of my life. The son's horoscope was originally published with the letter, drawn as Tropical/Placidus. - JAE)

March 13, 1970, Los Angeles, CA
Anguished Parents wrote:Can you help us? My birthdate is April 10, 1907, and my husband's February 12,1906. We have the same problem as many parents do today. Our son's data is May 6, 1934, 6:45 PM PST, 34N03, 118W14 [obviously Los Angeles - JAE].

Our son was always a very dear, thoughtful, gentle person growing up. Everyone loved him. He was dependable, honest, sincere, trustworthy, loyal and very, very active in church work. He was always a leader, and never a follower of a crowd or fad. He was a person who defended the underdog. He loved the church and spent five years in seminary before becoming a missionary in the Orient in 1960. He married a lovely girl, also an ordained minister, whose birthday is March 25, 1933; they have three children.

We saw a change in him when they came home on furlough in 1963. We couldn't communicate with him. In late 1968 they separated and their divorce is now in its final stages. Neither one will say why the divorce; they always seemed to everyone an ideal couple.

Our son had started drinking while in the Orient. He now swears and has grown a long beard, his hair has grown long and full, nd his attitude is so different now. He seems to be ready and expecting to receive whatever he can get from us, but nothing in return. He's back in the States now, but we seldom hear a word from him, not even at Christmas or on his father's birthday.

We love him because he is our son and for what we know he has been and could be, but we do not admire him. He is a brilliant man scholastically, and won top honors in Languages. In college, before attending the seminary, he was active in sports, drama, glee club, and was national president of a collegiate fellowship organization. All in all a well-rounded, likeable, handsome young man. He seems like a stranger to us today. I apologize for the length of this letter, but there is so much I could go on and on about a wonderful man who has gone so in reverse! Please disguise this letter so that our identities will not be recognizable, as we are well known throughout many areas and are so ashamed of the way our son is today. Do you see any hope for a change for the better for him in our time?
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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:02 pm

Here is the nativity for "Alienated Son."

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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:02 pm

American Astrology Comment wrote:We submitted this matter to our favorite astropsychologist and the following is excerpts from his frank but valuable report on what he sees in the pertinent charts:

"The phrasing and underlying attitude of the letter are socially oriented. Note that everything they praised about their son is what others found pleasing and praiseworthy to him - his dependability, loyalty, churchiness, linguistic acumen, service to others, and so on. Not a single word about what he himself is seeking or wishes to become; not a whisper about the inward grievances he may now be suffering after having taken a good long look at life and values in both hemispheres...

"One glance at his powerful birthchart suffice to show that he was raised in what is called an overcontrolled home, this being the primary meaning of Moon closely conjunct Saturn at the Nadir. Even a novice psychologist would spot this configuration as indicative of an accumulated hoard of resentments about one's early life, especially in conjunction with toilet-training and the development of 'good' behavior as opposed to 'bad'.... People with Moon-Saturn aspects are prone to suffer needlessly from feelings of guilt implanted in them by a too-orderly upbringing liberally riddled with quotations from Proverbs and Paul... Cyril Fagan called our attention to the fact that the most telltale configuration in the charts of hippies and other anomic types is Moon-Saturn, and this alienating influence is certainly borne out in the present case.... People born under Moon-Saturn patterns know there has to be something more meaningful in life than to have a neat haircut and clean ears, show the proper solicitude toward elders and superiors, and never to burp audibly or scratch where it itches when anybody is looking....

"Malefics in the parental houses of the horoscope are characteristic of a lack of communication with the old folks at home.... What is surprising to me is that the alienation from the sort of values referred to as 'the common virtues' did not take place earlier in life as, aside from the angular Sun, there are few features of this chart that would bespeak a naturally occurring 'wholesomeness' and social desirability of the glowing, lofty kind this young man is repeatedly described as having been - the parents apparently did not really know their son any better in the past than they do now. Even when he was the very model of conformity and wholesomeness, fired by missionary zeal, the pride and joy of his parents and congregation, he must have been very much aware of his growing tendency toward disaffection for the values he was expected to embrace. The anabolic planets (Venus, Jupiter, Uranus) are weakly posited in this chart, with the psychologically catabolic planets (Mars, Saturn, Neptune) in strong positions and patterns - always a horoscopic danger signal of alienation in one form or another....

"The low threshold of frustration that is the result of domination by Moon-Saturn isn't at all helped by his Mercury-Mars conjunction in close trine to Neptune. This trio is a compulsive troublemaker through connivance, through the inability to do anything in moderation, through the knack for making wrong turns along life's highways.... Though seething inwardly at all times, the seething is actually rather shallow, without much depth, showing more peevishness than profundity....

"About seven years ago this young man made some liberating discoveries about himself and the world, when he underwent a progressed Sun-Jupiter trine and progressed Mars sextiled his natal Venus, among other things.... He will probably be compelled to play out the current drama on his existence to its fullest, not returning to a semblance of conformity, for the sake of a livelihood and social convenience, until his progressed Mars-Neptune square peaks out in 1974, followed by the sobering-up, steadying influence of progressed Sun trine Saturn in the following four or five years. Meanwhile, there is some pretty rough going to be experienced."

The foregoing may have seemed a bit blunt, but we felt this summary of a professional's conclusions would not only answer the question asked by Anguished Parents but serve to illustrate to student readers how helpful astrology can be when combined with a competent psychologist's approach to an actual problem case.
Jim Eshelman
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Re: Alienated Son

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:33 am

Love Bradley's writing style. :)

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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Lance » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:51 pm

That was pretty intense.

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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Lance » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:29 am

It was also brilliant and inspiring.

Thanks for posting that. It really gives insight into the possibilities.

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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:59 am

Lance, glad you liked it. - One of the most useful psychodynamic factors, which I've used so long and routinely that it's ingrained in me, is the measurement of high vs. low frustration tolerance. This is an example of a chart with low frustration tolerance - increased vulnerability to frustration.

Out best map for this assessing this through aspects is Bradley's study of murderers from 1957, which is reproduced here:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22&p=66

Commission of murder (other than, say, a hit man - someone who has intentionally taken it up as their work) more or less invariably coincides with a failure of furstration tolerance. The Aspects section of the article discusses the frequent and infrequent aspects for murderers, which gives us a map for native high and low FT capacity.

Notice how the aspect section of that article (which is worth a full re-read occasionally IMHO) highlights Moon-Saturn and Mercury-Neptune aspects, though not the Mars connection with Mercury-Neptune (at least, by itself); then compare this to the analysis above.
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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Danica » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:15 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:59 am
Lance, glad you liked it. - One of the most useful psychodynamic factors, which I've used so long and routinely that it's ingrained in me, is the measurement of high vs. low frustration tolerance. This is an example of a chart with low frustration tolerance - increased vulnerability to frustration.

Out best map for this assessing this through aspects is Bradley's study of murderers from 1957, which is reproduced here:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22&p=66

Commission of murder (other than, say, a hit man - someone who has intentionally taken it up as their work) more or less invariably coincides with a failure of furstration tolerance. The Aspects section of the article discusses the frequent and infrequent aspects for murderers, which gives us a map for native high and low FT capacity.

Notice how the aspect section of that article (which is worth a full re-read occasionally IMHO) highlights Moon-Saturn and Mercury-Neptune aspects, though not the Mars connection with Mercury-Neptune (at least, by itself); then compare this to the analysis above.
Thank you for elaborating on this. I was wondering about it, since it did not make sense that the highly self-controlling Moon-Saturn would have a low frustration tolerance. Will study the linked thread!
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:29 am

It may be the other side, i.e., that Moon-Saturn feels frustration so acutely that it overwhelms their tolerance. (They can be tough and enduring, but that doesn't make them less frustrated!) Also, extremely controlled people are wound pretty tightly and when they finally lose control it isn't pretty.
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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:14 pm

Interesting.

I resonated with this post (I had a very controlling upbringing, centered around an appearance-obsessed church life, and still feel much residual guilt and resentment--though I have processed and released much of it).

Moon and Saturn are 10 degrees apart in my chart, though they are both angular, straddling my MC.

Though I would say that overall, I have pretty strong frustration tolerance (there is a tendency to be over-sensitive which I attribute to Neptune angularity, and I am often sharp-tongued. But I can look back at a long list of very provoking incidents where I am consistently proud--and relieved--that I kept my cool).

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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:51 pm

Virgo mellowness is legendary for millennia. I think Manilius' phrase was "unused to rage."

Yes, the strongly angular Saturn and Neptune would lead to vulnerability to frustration. You do have Sun conjunct Pluto, which is lowest on the list - I was just thinking this morning of exploring Sun-Pluto people with a specific eye to the level of frustration tolerance they normally display.
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Re: Alienated Son

Post by Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:04 pm

Funny you should point out Sun Pluto.

I'm not immune to flares of frustration and anger, but I've never yelled, thrown anything, or in any other way "lost my temper". Instead, I tend to get up and leave the room.

For example, during marriage counseling, I had a therapist who would say oddly sexist things--the kind of men-are-from-Mars-women-are-from-Venus platitudes that really get my goat. In retrospect, I think she may have been trying to rile me up to see how my anger manifested, because my ex-wife had complained that I had anger issues. :lol: (In fairness, I was often annoyed with my ex-wife. But still..)

Once, the therapist did succeed in riling me up. She said something that got me, and I felt a surge of anger--accelerated pulse, shortness of breath, that mercury-rising feeling. I jumped to my feet and said, "I need a minute!" and walked abruptly out of the room. In the other room I took a few deep breaths and calmed down, and then came back in the room, and we resumed discussion.

In my mind, I had just lost my temper. :lol:

In summary, I'd say I often experience annoyance, frustration; am usually in control of it's expression, which is held in and processed internally or expressed as a cold verbal dressing down; when I lose my cool it manifests as a Pluto-style exit from the scene.

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Re: Alienated Son

Post by SteveS » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:59 am

AB wrote:
.
..when I lose my cool it manifests as a Pluto-style exit from the scene.
Interesting, and Pluto is known as par-excellent symbolism for all forms of isolation expressions. :) In your case, a very healthy form for controlling anger issues.

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