Return charts for other planets

General Discussion on Solar & Lunar Returns matters for which a specific forum does not exist
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Mike
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Return charts for other planets

Post by Mike » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:37 pm

Hi all,

I'm about 3 1/2 months away from the first exact pass in my Saturn return, and have been pondering on non-solunar return charts in general.
Do any of you have any experience with, or thoughts on, casting actual charts for Saturn (or other planetary) returns?
Do you have any thoughts on separate charts for, say, the 3 passes of Saturn during a Saturn return? (I think it's 3, right?)

Just musing. I'm planning to start tracking mine, but am curious what your experiences are.

Merci :)

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Jupiter Sets at Dawn
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Re: Return charts for other planets

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:57 pm

I didn't find the Saturn Return charts (showing Saturn returning to where he was when I was born) worthwhile. I've never seen any return charts other than the Luminaries offer much if anything. I think if anything shows accurately, it's a coincidence.

YMMV, but I'd just follow the natal transits instead of trying to drag meaning out of a "return chart" for non-luminaries.

Edited to add:
Try looking at Grant Lewi style cycles. You may (or may not) find them useful. He was a tropical astrology who died awhile ago (and predicted his own death!) He wrote two books - Heaven Knows What - one of the most popular astrology books of all time, which let you cast your own horoscope, including Moon and rising sign, then look up what it all meant - and Astrology for the Millions which was his book on transits and cycles. It's the second one you want. Cheap used through Amazon

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Return charts for other planets

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:11 pm

I experimented a bit with Venus and Mars returns and found certain (relatively minor) effects.

But I can't say that slow outer planet returns - as return charts (rather than just aspects) - have shown themselves off for me. If they did then, yes, return theory is consistent with each moment responding to the immediately prior return, so three full conjunctions would mean three separeate charts, each replacing the prior.

Soime things to think about: In terms of the accuracy of the chart, take note of how fast the planet is going on the return date. For example, on January 29 when Saturn next conjoins your natal Saturn, transiting Saturn is moving 0°06'39", or 399", so the most precise the chart timing can be is 1/399 of a day, or plus-minus 3.6 minutes on the clock (about a degree on the angles). That's not bad sometimes it would be better, sometimes worse. It's just worth knowing how precise things are.

My first Saturn Return was a single-pass conjunction on November 16, 1989. At the time it occurred, I was in Buena Park, CA, though my residence was in Hollywood - similar coordinates. (You can use Oakwood, CA to get the post office less than two blocks from my house). It's a prettyboring chart, though it does have my natal Jupiter-Uranus close to Descendant and the rest of my T-square hanging around the angles. I can't really say that it defned m Saturn life beginning then and continuing for 29 years, or even for 14, though the act of entering my 30s and a different level of my work and responsibility life, though a nearly universal type of experience, is roughly consistent with what one would expect.

My most recent Saturn Return September 29, 2013 had Sun a few degrees off MC, partile square Pluto. I really can't say what that might mean in terms of my Saturn-self since that date. (My mother died about a week earlier, days before her 80th birthday. I can't say that any such event shows in my August 5, 2013 retrograde-pass Saturn Return then in force, even though it had my Venus-Pluto on angles: The event was fully expected, was wholly right for her, and by the time it happened had far less impact than if it had happened months earlier. But, if you're looking for something "working" in the chart, that would be the aspect to anchor it on.)
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mikestar13
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Re: Return charts for other planets

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:14 am

There is also a potential issue for planetary returns not applicable to solunars. This is the question of the "triple transit." For comparison consider that a lunar orbital period is 27 1/3 days approximately, so throughout our live we have one lunar return each 27-28 days without exception. Similarly for the sun, with a solar orbital period of 365 1/4 days, we get one solar return per year. Now for example Mars' orbital period is 687 days and we would expect a Mars return every 1.9 years like clockwork. Let's say your natal Mars is a 15 Taurus for example and transit Mars reaches 15 Taurus and we cast a chart. So Mars move on, turns retrograde, hits 15 Taurus, we cast another chart, now Mars turns direct and hits 15 Taurus for the last time this orbit. How the heck do we interpret this? IIRC, it can get worse: Pluto can do quintuple transits. Now this last is of no importance for natal astrology, though I do have my Pluto quarti somewhere around now give or take a few years. But in mundane astrology, the USA get a full Pluto return in 2024 or does it get three or five? I can't imagine that dealing with this complexity isn't well beyond the point of diminishing returns. :D
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