My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

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SteveS
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My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:36 am

Jim, here is an “outstanding incident” Dec 8 DSLR (link below) for my friend in Gulf Shores, Al. He called me yesterday to ask me to look at his SLR’s, for he has a most important business meeting with the City Council Monday Night the 12th. They are going to vote Yes or No for my friend’s objective, and a No will adversely affect his Business. He asked me the probabilities for a NO, and I said high for a No. Offer me your sight and I will let you know when he knows.

I see a Paran of Uranus-Saturn with Natal Saturn on DSLR MC. The DSLR features a partile 180 of Sun-Mars. You probably have his birth data---if not let me know,

https://ibb.co/tYd0qQD

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Dec 11, 2022 8:00 am

I didn't store his birth data (I have you, Gail, Brock, and Nancy filed with you, and your wedding date, but not this one). Yes, please send again, I can delete it after I copy it if you request.

On first impression: Yes, the Saturn-Uranus makes me nervous for him. One never knows, though. In a natal or a transit, this is always a hard one since it's basic nature is that it can go this way or that way and is trying to go both at once. My December 16 Demi-SLR has a 0°02' square 2° off angles and, while it's nowhere near the severity of a chart for which I'd leave town, it does have me mildly worried it will surprise me and mess something up.

I'd like to look at this in more detail.
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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:33 pm

No need to delete Jim. His birth data: Jan 8 1948; 10:05 AM CST; Birmingham, Al

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:31 am

Thanks. I kept the chart this time :).
SteveS wrote:
Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:36 am
Jim, here is an “outstanding incident” Dec 8 DSLR (link below) for my friend in Gulf Shores, Al. He called me yesterday to ask me to look at his SLR’s, for he has a most important business meeting with the City Council Monday Night the 12th. They are going to vote Yes or No for my friend’s objective, and a No will adversely affect his Business. He asked me the probabilities for a NO, and I said high for a No. Offer me your sight and I will let you know when he knows.
As backdrop, I note that his SSR is pretty good. (Has it been a good, strong, prospering year? It's almost over.) NATAL AND TRANSITING Mars and Jupiter are most angular with the two being almost equally so - therefore, while it might have been an expensive year, the whole feel is more expansive than expensive. The widely foreground Mars-Neptune aspects his Moon, Mars, and Jupiter (OK, Jupiter does take a bit of a hit, but it's still strong.)

His November 25 SLR has both Plutos most angular. Nothing is SUPER angular, but the doubled Pluto suggests this will be a critical month for him. (Not "life-altering" since it is moderately angular, not up to "turning point," but let's say "critical point.") My real concern of the SLR is that the only foreground aspect is a 0°04' Saturn transit to natal Venus. They're both barely foreground (almost 10° from Dsc), but the chart suggests that in a serious (but not life altering) way he will lose something dear to him this month (someone or something that has emotional value to him).

This brings us to the Demi-SLR from December 8. Here are the highlights from TMSA:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ur 20Ar43'16"  0S22 - 2' 2"  43°25' 16N13 289° 6' - 0°23' 179°36' 100% D 
Sa 25Cp18' 5"  1S15 + 4'24" 323°10' 15S53   1°53' -75°37'  89°31' 100% I 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Pl 20Cn20'53"  7N20 - 1'14" 140°13' 23N13 204°21' +82°18' 266°49' 100% Z 
Ve 24Cp23'23"  1S44 + 1°14' 322°26' 16S38   4°59' -76°19'  88°47' 100% I 
Sa 27Cn33'36"  1N 9 - 3'35" 145°21' 15N 4 173°47' +74°43' 271°42'  99% M 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tSa sq tUr  0° 5'100% M tMo sq tNe  0°47' 99% M                         
----------------------  tSu op tMa  0°16'100%                           
tSa co rVe  0°44' 99% M tVe sq tJu  0°51' 99% M                         
tSa op rSa  2°11' 91% M  ----------------------                         
tSa op rPl  2°42' 86% M tMa op rJu  0°34' 99% M                         
tUr sq rVe  0°48' 99% M tNe sq rMo  0°27'100% M                         
tUr sq rSa  2° 6' 91% M                                                 
tUr sq rPl  0°22'100%                                                   
----------------------                                                  
rVe op rSa  2°55' 84% M                                                 
rVe op rPl  1°59' 92% M 
As you saw, Saturn and Uranus half a degree from angles with a 0°05'. Also, natal Pluto and Venus are at very high strength and natal Saturn not far behind.

On the simple question of "win vs. lose," the transiting Saturn-Uranus and natal Venus-Saturn-Pluto looks like lose.
,
The good news is that I don't see Saturn-Uranus (by itself) being devastating. I've seen a lot of Saturn-Uranus solunars this year (including some lunars of my own: my Demi at the end of this week is another). Despite reflexively wanting to interpret them as "bad surprise," it never (by itself) seems that bad: It's seems more "pull this way and that, so nothing quite gets resolved and what little movement gets made tends to be against you." But in a simple win-lose gambit, two closely angular Saturns means lose. Two Saturns and a Pluto mean outright losing something, withdrawing from something, having to work harder. Uranus means things are changing (he may even get surprised tonight with the exact way things come down).

Saturn in the Demi aspects his natal Venus (partile), Saturn, and Pluto. Besides the "lose something close to you, being unhappy theme," this is a come to terms with reality demand. Uranus aspects the same planets, though, and that's not outright bad - it might even be a genuine light benefic here, forcing a change he doesn't know he wants. He's inclined to be negative with mundane oppositions among natal Venus-Saturn and Venus-Pluto, and he may want to lead with a more positive emotional tone.

The "Other Partile Aspects" column (non-foreground partile aspects) shows primarily frustrating aspects. I don't like them. They do include a Venus-Jupiter square, though. So something that makes him smile comes during this.
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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:49 am

This is for tonight, though - for this week. The future implications of tonight fall in the domain of his new Solar Return less than a month away, and it's GOOD. For Gulf Shores, it has natal Jupiter 0°09' from WP and natal Jupiter 1°03' from Zenith. There is a 2°13' Moon-Venus opposition in addition to his natal (surely lucky for him) Moon-Jupiter conjunction being foreground and (mundanely in this chart) partile. While there is weirdness in the next year (Neptune square natal Uranus), the primary themes are overwhelmingly positive for 2023. Away from the angles, there is even a 0°10' Jupiter square to natal Sun.

That suggests to me that nothing happens tonight that knocks is legs out from under him.
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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:52 am

Jim asked:
(Has it been a good, strong, prospering year?
It has Jim, even with a tremendous increase in labor due to the labor market affecting the entire country. The City of course has a public record of his taxes, probably the reason they will vote NO because they know how much $ his business is making. My friend has had a free ride from the City over his restaurant parking which the city owns the parking area. My friend knew one day the City would vote NO with his annual objectives at the restaurant parking area, and it appears to me this DSLR may time the City’s NO vote---you know the old saying: You can’t fight City Hall. :) Your analysis I think nails it for him, and the DSLR TMSA % is a great numbered view for your analysis. My friend knows enought about Lunars to understand when he is faced with "outstanding incidents" and feel em coming---thats why he called me for a look-see :) . Thanks Jim

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:00 am

He'll have a magnificent 2023.
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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:46 am

Yes indeed, we have already looked at his 2023 SSR. I told him to try and get outside his current DSLR with delay tactics before a final vote is taken tonight. He is on the phone this morning trying to muster enough votes to delay the final vote in order to get into a better time frame. Time will soon tell! He want know until he gets to meeting tonight.

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:39 am

Jim, my friend got to the city council meeting last evening and stated his defense but they had already made-up their minds and voted NO. He is burned :evil: over the matter because they denied him a more prepared appeal at a later date.

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:35 am

Well... we knew that's what the charts were saying. It was his time to lose something. Hopefully (given where angularity was tighter or wider), this is a passing wind.

When such disappointments hot, the real concern, I think, is for the future - concern that it means not just something now but bad things in the future (consequent to this). But that's not what I see for your friend. His new SSR less than a month from now is as positive as I've ever seen anyone get (without traveling to get it). He's going to have a fabulous 2023 with a bright future.
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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:18 pm

Jim, Steve, does either of you have a set of "Outstanding Incident" chart options? It might be worth distributing with TMSA.
Time matters

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:33 pm

mikestar13 wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:18 pm
Jim, Steve, does either of you have a set of "Outstanding Incident" chart options? It might be worth distributing with TMSA.
The underlying principle was a statement I made in Interpreting Solar Returns expressing the idea that when angularity and aspect closeness both surge to a peak at about the time, events "pop." Ah, buy how to quantify that?

Subjectively, it seems that partile (or near-partile) aspects are where the "pop" comes from. That takes care of the aspect curve part. As for angularity narrowing that to partile gives you almost no charts ever and, in any case, loses important charts (where, by living through, it's obvious the charts are a big deal). Finally, I can't really tell the difference (in practice) between partile angularity (major angles) and any other Class 1 angularity.

So, I created a TMSA definition file called Outstanding_Return that allows has only Class 1 angularity (major 3°, but minor stretched to 2° instead of 1°) and partile conjunctions, oppositions, and squares (ecliptical and mundane) - and, of course, set to show only aspects where both are foreground and where other partile aspects are NOT shown.

These certainly aren't the only returns that are important. Any foreground partile aspect is important, though the less angular, the less "outstanding."

I think the above will work - If you want only the MOST IMPORTANT lunars of the year, you can use TMSA to run a year's worth of lunars and pop them open to look ONLY at whether any aspects show at all (it takes three seconds). If not, move on.
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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:05 pm

I mention this because I'm considering a filtering feature for a version of TMSA 1 (not 1.0) where the user can calculate many charts, but only displays the ones that meet the selected criteria. Filtering sets would be saveable, and of course "Outstanding Return" is an obvious candidate. How I envision it working is that the chart will be calculated using the usual option set, but displays only if the filtering criteria are met. After an outstanding return is identified, it would be easy to go back and display other charts if force at the time of, for example an outstanding SLR in August 2024. This will be a way down the road, and I may spin it off into a companion product.
Time matters

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:08 pm

Intriguing.
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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:07 am

Jim, Mike,
Matthew & I spent a lot of time discussing Jim’s “Outstanding Incident” return chart's criteria. Matthew was under the opinion it needed to be relabeled as “out of the ordinary” return charts. All I know for sure---it’s the recognition of these type charts in advance is a tremendous working tool to help plan or not plan certain activities. Of course many times in life we have no choice over our timing of things---it has already been planned out with our birth. Like the present discussion with my friend’s city council meeting. If you look at his current SSR in Gulf Shores we see the Mars-Jup theme on the angles, but if we isolate his SSR Mars on his MC in Scorpio, it is clear to me knowing his detailed reaction to the meeting’s outcome his current “outstanding incident” DSLR manifested his SSR Mars MC and colored it with a Scorpion flavor. He told me if he could figure out a way to extract harsh revenge on every one of the council members he would do so and go to his grave with a smile on his face. :)

Mike, whatever you decide to do with TMSA to help isolate these type “outstanding incident” return charts would imo---greatly help the Sidereal Astrologer. These type return charts have become my best tool in my “handbag :) .” They damn sure TIME “out of the ordinary” stuff for a life! If I could find my lost genie bottle I would ask for: every person on the planet could recognize when their rare "out of the ordinary" return charts occur in life, for I think it could help transform consciousness on the planet into a major paradigm shift realizing this is something :shock: I need to study/understand. :)

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:48 am

I'm not at all local to that label, which seems awkward at times. We should bounce off ideas to find a new term. I think (especially for a category label in a program, and for popular adoption), it should be short, perhaps a single word that contrasts the importance of one return to all the rest.

The first idea that comes to mind is: Priority

Sample use: Marion has a priority SLR tomorrow with her natal partile Sun-Moon square in the immediate foreground (natal Sun one minute from MC).

Another idea is: Standout

This might be better. It catches Steve's "out of the ordinary" angle (whereas priority, at most, says "this one is more important than the others). The downside of outstanding is that people probably think it means "This is going to be great!" rather than the literal "This is going to stand out from the average month." (Extraordinary would have the same weakness - seeming to mean "great," whereas it literally only means "out of the ordinary.)

So far (in the few seconds spent on this), "Standout" is my favorite.
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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:35 am

Jim wrote:
This might be better. It catches Steve's "out of the ordinary" angle (whereas priority, at most, says "this one is more important than the others). The downside of outstanding is that people probably think it means "This is going to be great!" rather than the literal "This is going to stand out from the average month."
Exactly Jim! I like both of your one word meanings and if forced to choose one, I would pick priority. As I have tried to convey with other posts, I strongly feel that Bradley understood things about how at times during a solar year, certain SLR’s were important for timing certain symbolic parts for a SSR, and I have seen this dozens of times in my life with people close to me. I wish I had kept a record where I could have posted all of em, but I do the next best thing and post when I see em coming up for people close to me including myself. It’s not really about predicting things---it about standing witness for indisputable proof that Sidereal Astrology contains exact geometric/astronomical laws in nature that can affect our lives in “outstanding” timing ways. I like to find astrological/astronomical things for my mind/life that are the truth which blow me away, its about the timing truth of things. :)

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:42 am

Mike wrote:
I mention this because I'm considering a filtering feature for a version of TMSA 1 (not 1.0) where the user can calculate many charts, but only displays the ones that meet the selected criteria. Filtering sets would be saveable, and of course "Outstanding Return" is an obvious candidate. How I envision it working is that the chart will be calculated using the usual option set, but displays only if the filtering criteria are met. After an outstanding return is identified, it would be easy to go back and display other charts if force at the time of, for example an outstanding SLR in August 2024. This will be a way down the road, and I may spin it off into a companion product.
Excellent Mike! I see possible great potential for this on a much broader scale as a service for people with timing “out of the ordinary” incidents for their lives.

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Re: My friends Dec 8 "outstanding incident" DSLR

Post by SteveS » Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:14 am

Jim, My good friend in Gulf Shores has been dreading for years when the time would come where the city would vote against him which would cause detriment to his business. He would always ask me if I saw anything in his charts that would indicate the time for this blow-up between him and the city. This went on for years and this last solar year I saw a good amount of Mars symbolism in his Solar Arcs and SSR, and told him this may be the year when things would blow-up with the city. BUT—I did not catch his Dec 8 OI DSLR until he called me a few days after this OI DSLR, telling me he got a notice from the city for a final vote. I told him he had an OI DSLR which he is very familiar how important I feel about OI Return Charts. He asked me what his % were for a dreaded NO vote---I told him very high % for a NO vote. We worked a plan together for delaying the vote---it did not work. If I had Mike’s TMSA function to offer me a list for the dates for OI return charts---I would not have missed his OI DSLR chart---but it would not have matter anyway except he would have known I was doing my homework for him. He is a great paying client and friend!

But we see how this one obscure OI DSLR timed a most important incident in his life. By just looking at the OI incident Saturn-Uranus Paran in this chart, I would not have been able to call the vote for him, but that partile Sun-Mars aspect was the key! What I want to be able to do with Mike’s possible TMSA dates function is be able to do something I have never been able to do with many natives---tell em when an OI return date will happen and to call me a month before the date for further astrological discussion. I also want to experiment in other possible exciting areas. :)

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