Need to know

Q&A and discussion on Secondary Progressions.
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James Condor
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Need to know

Post by James Condor » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:43 pm

It appears my Progressed Saturn and p Venus are angular. Is this true?
Thanks

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Re: Need to know

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:36 pm

James Condor wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:43 pm
It appears my Progressed Saturn and p Venus are angular. Is this true?
Thanks
Progressed how? Secondary progressions? Solar Arc?
Is this natal or solar return or ? Which set of angles?

Appears in what program? What are you looking at?

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Re: Need to know

Post by James Condor » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:06 am

I guess secondary. In Astro.com, under progressed chart. Nevermind about Saturn. My p Saturn is 19° Capricorn. ! I was thinking it was Libra. But p Desc is 14° Scorpio and my n Venus is 15° Scorpio. I just haven't had time to figure out the math, plus there are so many variables astrological and I forget

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Re: Need to know

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:27 am

James Condor wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:06 am
I guess secondary. In Astro.com, under progressed chart. Nevermind about Saturn. My p Saturn is 19° Capricorn. ! I was thinking it was Libra. But p Desc is 14° Scorpio and my n Venus is 15° Scorpio. I just haven't had time to figure out the math, plus there are so many variables astrological and I forget
There are some problems with these calculations.

The secondary progressed planets are straightforward (no significant variation in theory that affects your question), although there are several variations on calculating progressed angles. On Saturn, you were right the first time, a d there is an adjacent Mars. (Although the angular Mars effect has eased, though you are just entering a severa-year Mars-Saturn aspect.) Using the way I progressed the angles (Solar Arc MC), your current progressions are as follows:

20°47' Libra p Mars
21°35' Capricorn p MC
21°45' Libra p Saturn

Additionally, yes, you have the Venus separately, soon leaving a 1° orb (though the split of your Venus-Uranus conjunction is right on track, and more Uranus is building fast):

15°56' Scorpio r Venus
16°01' Scorpio r Venus/Uranus midpoint
16°47' Taurus p Asc
17°06' Scorpio r Uranus

I would have expected the strongest effect to be about the first of 2017 (January, maybe a couple of weeks earlier) when progressed Moon opposed your Venus-Uranus right across the progressed Asc axis.
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Re: Need to know

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:00 am

Astrodienst (astro.com) says the following in their FAQ:
Natal and progressed chart
Natal chart with progressed planets in the outer circle. With additional tables (PDF).

The Progression (also called Secondary Progression) is based on the idea that there is a symbolic analogy of 1 year = 1 day in the life of a person. At 30 years of age, a chart is calculated for the 30th day after birth.

This means that we determine the current age of the native in years and then calculate the chart for the same number of days after birth. This horoscope, similar to a transit chart, can be interpreted in relation to the birth chart (synastry).

Ascendant, MC and houses are moved by about 1° per year in the progressed chart. In practice, the number of years is multiplied by the mean daily motion of the Sun. The result is then added to the sidereal time of birth, and axes and houses are recalculated. The mean daily motion of the Sun (the so-called 'Naibod key') is 0.98564733°. In fact, this is a primary direction of the angles and houses.

Other astrological software may provide slightly different positions of the angles and hous cusps. E.g., Solar Fire calculates them as follows: The solar arc, i.e. the ecliptic motion that the progressed Sun has made since birth, is added to the midheaven (MC), then the ascendant and the other house cusps are calculated from this new midheaven. Astrodienst offers this as an option in the section of "Additional objects" and other options.
So that means you can get both secondary and solar arc progressions from Astro.com. You were looking at the secondary, and Jim is posting about solar arc.

One thing that sometimes trips people up. If you've changed the reference place from your birth place to where you live now, or set up the chart as if you were born where you now live, I believe (although I can't find the reference just now) that progressions are always done for the birth place, and not relocated.

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Re: Need to know

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:12 am

Actually, I wasn't posting solar arc - I was posting secondaries, but calculating the angles by the "Solar Arc MC" rate. (MC advances at solar arc rate, Ascendant is derived from that MC.)
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Re: Need to know

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:46 am

Yes. That's what the Astrodeinst FAQ I quoted says Solar Fire does and which you can get through astro.com.

Progressions for James Condor drawn for his birthplace and using the Solar Arc option (at the bottom of the page you choose which chart to show, Fixed Stars are on the left, the Solar Arc option for progressions is on the right)

Progressions for 24 Oct. 2017
Ref. place: Harvey, IL (US), 87w39, 41n37
Progr. Date: 12 Feb. 1984 (33.79 days after birth) (solar arc/MC)
UT:12:24:34
key day for 0:00 UT: 18 Apr. 2017
Sid. Time: 21:14:16
Jul.Day 2445743.017685 TDT, pT 53.9 sec
sidereal, ayanamsa=24°31'07 (Fagan/Bradley)

Asc 16°Taurus 47' 23
MC 21°Capricorn 35' 39

You can also get these progressions in a bi-chart with the natal and a tri with transits as well.

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Re: Need to know

Post by James Condor » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:20 am

Thanks Jim and Jupe.
On my Venus in January 2017, Jim's interpretation is probably true in considering my experiences. My heart and thoughts have seemed to change gradually, but not dramatically or suddenly, from then until now. In Feb 17, I began a romantic relationship, until about late August. I opened myself up to her and the idea of us. When we initially met in Oct 16, i wanted nothing to do with her romantically.
And now the relationship is technically over, but still lingers and my ex and I still remain in contact. The difference is I haven't wanted to be in contact with her; I am indifferent and mixed up about it. Was more so mixed up about it in August and September.
Yes I the Mars-Saturn aspect.

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Re: Need to know

Post by James Condor » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:42 am

Jim,
What is the difference between solar arc and secondary progression?

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Re: Need to know

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:29 am

James Condor wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:42 am
Jim,
What is the difference between solar arc and secondary progression?
There are two different questions here, and I need to make clear the question before diving into two different answers.

First, Secondary Progressions and Solar Arc Directions are two quite different methods of prediction that produce all-but-unrelated results. Second, there are multiple ways of progressing the Secondary Progressed angles, one of which is called "Solar Arc of the Midheaven" or something similar.

On the first (root) meaning: Secondary Progressions are progressions (rather than directions) that advance all planets one day's motion for one year of time. After 35 years of life, Secondary Progressed planets will have moved as far as planets moved in the first 35 days of your life.

Solar Arc Directions are directions (rather than progressions) that advance all planets at the same fixed rate as Secondary Progressed Sun. For example, if your progressed Sun has advanced 39°14' since birth, then every planet in the chart is advanced 39°14'.

That's the direct answer to the question you asked, but maybe not to the question you meant to ask.

The other place the terms jumble is in how to calculate the progressed angles. (This is aside from the Quotidian rate, which I'll skip from now, and seems to coexist with what I'm about to describe.) Secondary Progressed angles, most astrologers agree, move at something like 1°/year, but there is debate and disagreement on exactly the rate. One theory is the so-called Naibod rate, which is the mean (average) rate of the Sun. Supporters of this (as I was for a ong time) usually apply it to the MC in Right Ascension rather than longitude. Another rate, though, makes the progressed Midheaven exactly the sae as the Solar Arc (directed) Midheaven: It progresses the MC the same amount of celestial longitude (not RA) as progressed Sun. For the last several years, I've been convinced this is the correct rate (though, as noted, I've been wrong before).

Notice that een if the Secondary Progressed & Solar Arc Midheavens are identical, their Ascendants will not be identical. SA Ascendant is simply natal Ascendant plus the same fixed solar arc value that every planet gets (distance from natal Sun to progressed Sun). However, the Secondary Progressed Ascendant using the Solar Arc of MC rate will be whatever Ascendant exists when the progressed Midheaven has a certain longitude.

For example, my natal Sun is 22°28' Virgo. Right this minute, my progressed Sun is 25°47' Scorpio. It has moved two signs, 3°19' since birth (63°19'). Solar Arc Directions add this to every planet and point, so, for example, my natal MC of 1°45' Gemini is directed to 5°06' Leo, and my natal Ascendant 2°20' Virgo moves the same distance, and is directed to 5°40' Scorpio. But, switching back to Secondary Progressions, that same 5°06' Leo MC (the exact longitude of Regulus BTW, to the minute of arc, I hadn't noticed it was quite there yet) gives an Ascendant much earlier - Asc and MC don't change evenly during the course of the day - so my Secondary Progressed Asc is 24°00' Libra.
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Re: Need to know

Post by James Condor » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:50 am

Alright. Thanks. So, have you seen more accurate results from using solar arc Midheaven? Or what are the results or benefits of using solar arc midheaven ? I see the point to measure it just to measure it, but I would then use the info to find more purpose or accuracy.

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Re: Need to know

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:20 am

Yes, I have.
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Re: Need to know

Post by James Condor » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:43 pm

It looks like my n Uranus is within one degree of secondary progressed Solar Arc MC and my progressed Uranus will be within one soon.

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