Veronica and Craig

Q&A and discussion about Synastry, i.e., relationship analysis through the comparison of two horoscopes.
Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:28 am

I have been involved with a man for the past four years and I really love him and would like to think that we can have a happy ever after. I looked at our synastry chart when we first started dating and I thought at the time, well this looks like a winner, even with the mercury/communication issues. I really don't know what end is up. this man rocked me to the core and really swept me off my feet and I just cant believe it was all for nothing and it over. I know we love each other but have such issues and background that it just seems like such hard work. Ive never been one to shirk away from work though and I crave the level of intimacy and connection we have. I feel like we are meant to be together, and when I am away from him I feel lost. Ive never felt this way about a man and it is scary and confusing. I asked him to marry me that how serious I am about him.

His info
CraigL
birthplace Sodus NY
date 08/01/70
time was in am

User avatar
Jupiter Sets at Dawn
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:01 pm

Veronica. Your Sun is square his Neptune. You don't love this man. You love your idea of this man. From what you said in the other thread, you keep trying to remake this man into what you want, and he's not interested. (and who tries to act like a role model for a grown man? He's not what you want. Never was. Your Neptune-Moon is square his Mercury. He can't rely on what you say because you're all caught up in your own dreamy emotions, to the point you can't even see this guy.

As for anything else... I'm sorry, but what you think is there isn't. There's no strong aspects between your charts. No signs of love and almost no sign of lust either. This relationship isn't about him. It's about what you want, and you're using him as a mannequin to create your fantasy. When he doesn't live up to your dreams, you're disappointed and you make sure he knows it. I'm sure we could make up something about some of the wider aspects, but honestly, there's no foundation there to build on. Doesn't matter how hard you work. Without a foundation, it won't stand.

You're willing do all kinds of work to try to keep this fantasy. Real love doesn't take work. It takes caring about the other person's feelings, and that is not showing in these two charts. What's really the problem? You've spent so much time on this you don't want it to go to waste? Sorry it's already wasted. Don't throw more time and work at this relationship. There is no relationship here to work on.

Leave this man alone. He's to the point trying to get rid of you he's setting up situations where you get physically hurt. What's going to get through to you? Does he have to set up a situation where one of your kids or animals gets hurt. Don't say "Oh he would NEVAH!" because your fantasy based on him maybe wouldn't, but you don't know what this guy might do because you don't know this real man at all.

When people tell you who they are and how they feel about you, believe them.

I'm sorry.

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6105
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:10 pm

I wish we had a birth time for him. I'm using 6 AM as the center of the known period.

How one would interpret his chart has a lot to do with how secure he is in life. His exact Sun-Mars conjunction could be genuinely strong and valiant, or could be reactively, over-compensatingly rough, mean, or sabotaging. As a double Cancer, he is acutely sensitive to "living in someone's shadow" and not fitting his own image of what he should be. His Venus-Pluto conjunction means that he needs intensity - "no holds barred" - in personal connection or, if he feels that isn't available, he pulls away and shuts down. (As it trines his Saturn, he is vulnerable to thinking that he's the one being shut out, and perhaps doesn't take perceived rejection well.)

Since last you were here, I've moved to a sort of two-pass approach to synastry, the first of which is to zero in on two luminaries, two benefics, and two malefic from each chart to the other - and to understand that each person in the relationship has his or her own experience of what's going on, and it may not resemble the other person's perception. Let's see what that brings here:

Placing his chart around yours, I notice a complete absence of even moderately wide aspects of his Moon, Sun, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn to your chart. (As with your current transits, I don't offhand recall when I've seen so little astrological activity.) We'll come back to your experience of the relationship later.

Flipping around to see your planets around his chart, and the checking the same six planets (but not relying on his angles being accurate), the stand-out is your Moon and Jupiter square his Mercury (16'). (Yes, I know your Neptune does also - but we're not there yet.) This, by itself, shows really excellent communication, probably a rapid interchange, easy flow, and you distinctly respecting his mind and what he has to say. (Oh, yeah, your Sun is to this, too.)

That - the Mercury focus - is the only gigantically strong thing between the charts from this first approach. I'll start a second post to finish the analysis,
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6105
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:35 pm

For the second pass, we treat each person's chart as transits to the other's chart. This narrows the orbs a lot, and broadens the planets used.

So, the first question is: By transits to your chart at the moment he was born what kind of "event" does this describe in your life?

He was born when Neptune was approaching, but not yet in partile orb, the square to your Sun. This was a time you would start to feel ego-dissolving. Under Neptune transits to Sun, we diffuse (lose) our sense of who we are and where we are going. It can be good for highly controlling people, or folks who have been shut down on the reality of their life - losing their existing definitions makes room for building new ones on the other side. but generally it's a time of losing track of yourself and direction.

I suspect something like that has happened in this relationship. It can be very powerful to lose yourself, dissolving into another, like surrendering into temptation or sinking surrenderfully into the most luxurious bed.

No other outer planet is involved in any close aspects from his chart to yours. That is, if you were living he "event" of August 1, 1970, there would have been no major transits occurring.

Similarly, neither his Sun, Mars, nor Venus aspects anything in your chart (and his Moon appears not to, unless it is close enough to sesqui-square your Mars). This means that the only factor besides this pending Neptune 'transit' is his Mercry partile square your Moon - already discussed.

So, what kind of summary...

Veronica, the heart wants what it wants. Having admitted that, I don't see what you saw that made you say the chart comparison was decent. There's almost nothing thereat all. 100% of all the relevant contacts are wrapped up in this:

3°49' Scorpio - his Neptune
5°05' Aquarius - your Sun
7°28' Leo - his Mercury
7°44' Scorpio - your Moon
8°47' Scorpio - your Mars
10°29' Scorpio - your Jupiter

I'm guessing he has an angle around 20° mutable - your Venus. There kinda has to be something more, because there doesn't seem enough here to have more than briefly caught your attention. There is enough to draw your fascination and vulnerable surrender for a time, and your admiration of his mind and words - which isn't (acordiong to the charts) necessarily reciprocated.

I'm not sure that I'd have encouraged you in this relationship.

PS - On a wild lark, try a birth time for him (purely speculative) of 4:00 AM.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6105
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:38 pm

Here's the semi-automated chart interpretation for Craig, for all factors that don't require a birth time.

MOON IN CANCER
Strongly driven by feelings (close to surface, comfortably expressed; sometimes overwhelm). When feeling safe: tender, gentle, humane, openly sensitive; otherwise moody, cocky arrogance. Expressive actor, yet treasures privacy. Magnetic, draws affection, warm, generous, hospitable. Sympathetic listening; trusted. Exudes optimism, confidence. Better serving than leading. Thrives within imagination & fantasy.


SUN IN CANCER
Thrives within imagination & complexity (vision; or lost in fantasy). Lives in others’ shadow; finds purpose in service & emulation. Conceive & deliver results. Persuasive, trusted, instinct for motives. Live in mystery or its resolution: create or solve puzzles. Renewed by home or sanctuary. Sensitive, moody, self-absorbed.

ASPECTS OF SUN
CONJUNCTION MARS Orb 0°22' Applying
Action, drive, accomplishment, vitality, courage. Restless, forthright, direct (perhaps hasty, impatient, temperamental, low frustration tolerance). Strong physical aggression (for business, sex, etc.). Industrious, instinctively leads or commands, thus often promoted.

SEXTILE URANUS Orb 2°56' Separating
Go their own way, unapologetically following their own paths. Easily bored. Loves freedom. Progressive, future-oriented, uninhibited by convention. Self-perspective usually founded in objectivity. Often deeply interested in occultism.


MARS IN CANCER
Inner strength (prodigious imagination & fantasy) usually holds private demons at bay; but clings to old wounds (angry, acting out, selfish, retaliatory from old mistreatment). Breeds confidence, makes things happen; loyal, speaks truth to power; but wants a chance to lead. Magnetic (passionate following?). Wants adoration sexually (otherwise business-like).


MERCURY IN LEO
Bright, takes pride in learning. Derives stature, dignity, and strength from intellect. Refuses to be intimidated by facts. Dislikes "common thinking" and obvious stupidity. Flair for stylish expression; effective communicators. Resourceful.


VENUS IN LEO
"Parents" friends (= unequal relationships). Self-surrender is hard; vain, aloof. Bold when romance captures their interest (but many older bachelors). "Shoppers" in romance, testing the ground first. Early sexual mismatches (unhealthy early relationships). Strong sense of morality & dignity. Generous friend.

ASPECTS OF VENUS
TRINE SATURN Orb 0°41' Separating
Work, duty, devotion are gratifying. Restrictions in love; ordinary pleasures may be deferred. Many seem comfortable unpartnered, though there is rarely sexual restraint. Childhood hardship or deprivation shape adult patterns. Sober, responsible.

CONJUNCTION PLUTO Orb 3°14' Applying
“All or nothing” emotional intensity instinctively rejects others’ (moral and other) arbitrary values on love, sex, art. Typically has few intimates, and those of unfiltered intensity. Halfway measures are not enough; in human connection, the feeling is, “go cosmic, or go home.” Those expressing the ALL mode seek deep, penetrating connections (sometimes overwhelming intimates, sometimes inadvertently challenging social codes). Those in the NOTHING mode may choose it innocently or withdraw from people in response to repeated rebuke and ostracism. For both, sexual development may come late, as adolescent social rituals seem perplexingly arbitrary. Either may experience eruptive trouble in relationships. Either, by their intensity, can be commandingly charismatic.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
TheScales_BothWays
Zodiac Member
Zodiac Member
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 7:42 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:18 pm

Hey Veronica, welcome back to Solunars. 😊
Veronica wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:28 am
His info
CraigL
birthplace Sodus NY
date 08/01/70
time was in am
Veronica, is his date of birth the 1st of August, or the 8th of January?

If I use the 8th of January as his date of birth, then we'd finally get something that shows some strong attraction. His Venus partile square your Venus. Your Sun is also partile to his Neptune. And your Mars squares his Mars, but also partile sesquisquares Saturn. In fact, when I first read your post about ~1.15am, transiting Mars-Saturn was rising and the Sun was on the IC for my locale. Even right now, as I type this, Mars-Saturn is on the MC and the Sun is rising.

If 8th January is his birthday, this is actually much worse thanks to his Mars-Saturn connecting to your Mars. But upon reading the earlier replies, I realise that you probably mean the 1st of August, and that Americans use a different date system. But I'm posting this just in case.

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:21 pm

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:01 pm
Veronica. Your Sun is square his Neptune. You don't love this man. You love your idea of this man. From what you said in the other thread, you keep trying to remake this man into what you want, and he's not interested. (and who tries to act like a role model for a grown man? He's not what you want. Never was. Your Neptune-Moon is square his Mercury. He can't rely on what you say because you're all caught up in your own dreamy emotions, to the point you can't even see this guy.

As for anything else... I'm sorry, but what you think is there isn't. There's no strong aspects between your charts. No signs of love and almost no sign of lust either. This relationship isn't about him. It's about what you want, and you're using him as a mannequin to create your fantasy. When he doesn't live up to your dreams, you're disappointed and you make sure he knows it. I'm sure we could make up something about some of the wider aspects, but honestly, there's no foundation there to build on. Doesn't matter how hard you work. Without a foundation, it won't stand.

You're willing do all kinds of work to try to keep this fantasy. Real love doesn't take work. It takes caring about the other person's feelings, and that is not showing in these two charts. What's really the problem? You've spent so much time on this you don't want it to go to waste? Sorry it's already wasted. Don't throw more time and work at this relationship. There is no relationship here to work on.

Leave this man alone. He's to the point trying to get rid of you he's setting up situations where you get physically hurt. What's going to get through to you? Does he have to set up a situation where one of your kids or animals gets hurt. Don't say "Oh he would NEVAH!" because your fantasy based on him maybe wouldn't, but you don't know what this guy might do because you don't know this real man at all.

When people tell you who they are and how they feel about you, believe them.

I'm sorry.
I love the idea of this man, yup.
Because for the first 6 months when I was wooed and fell in love I believed the lie he originally told me about who he was and what he did, and what he wanted out of life. Who he really was, was someone who wanted to be what he told me he was but was struggling to achieve his goals.
I believed in the man he was when he was with me. Not the Public Enemy number one, that I found out he was. I have know this guy since a teen, and we had a similar group of friends, neighbors really because we live in a small town. I left that circle of friends and for 20 years had no contact with any of them. I am not trying to make him into something he is not. That's why I'm sitting home alone. I tried to help him become, what he told me he wanted, but the street life is an almost impossible thing to just walk away from. I do my best to act like a role model of ALL people, always trying to do my best and be my best in every moment, because I know I personally fell better and act better when I also am around people who are acting in accordance with there best. this world, imo is full of negative people who are quick to know people down and not enough people to lift them all up.
it might be easy for you to just say hes not what I want, and there is no relationship here and I hear what your saying, but he is what I want, and there is something between us. I wasn't looking for a relationship. I was still married and ending a PTSd causing relationship with my ex-husband. I was minding my own business and he showed up and just swept me off my feet. I have felt more love with this man then with any other man I have loved intimately. But yet there is a huge dark side brought out by his lifestyle that is to scary for me to deal with. I'm not one to tell anyone how to live their life and what they should do.
there are 100billion people on this planet and I DO have a relationship of some worth with this one particular person and while you may say there is nothing to build on, my inner skeptic says, nothing is impossible.
Craig told me he loved me and I believe him.
what the love we do mysteriously have between us will turn into is whats important.
I appreciate your feedback and take it to heart, but I dont just willy nilly get into a relationship, im a very hard person to get close too in real life so Im perplexed at the whole thing.

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:22 pm

TheScales_BothWays wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:18 pm
Hey Veronica, welcome back to Solunars. 😊
Veronica wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:28 am
His info
CraigL
birthplace Sodus NY
date 08/01/70
time was in am
Veronica, is his date of birth the 1st of August, or the 8th of January?

If I use the 8th of January as his date of birth, then we'd finally get something that shows some strong attraction. His Venus partile square your Venus. Your Sun is also partile to his Neptune. And your Mars squares his Mars, but also partile sesquisquares Saturn. In fact, when I first read your post about ~1.15am, transiting Mars-Saturn was rising and the Sun was on the IC for my locale. Even right now, as I type this, Mars-Saturn is on the MC and the Sun is rising.

If 8th January is his birthday, this is actually much worse thanks to his Mars-Saturn connecting to your Mars. But upon reading the earlier replies, I realise that you probably mean the 1st of August, and that Americans use a different date system. But I'm posting this just in case.
hi
sorry for the confusion
it August 1st 1970

User avatar
Jupiter Sets at Dawn
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:17 pm

I'm not saying he's not what you want. I'm saying he's not what you want him to be and never will be.

He put you in the position of his friends coming to your home and assaulting you. Either he accused you of cheating or he didn't defend you when someone else did (and he had to know what would happen if he didn't defend you.) You know he lies. He may be the love of your life, but you are not the love of his.

I gave you the astrology, and Jim gave you the astrology, and Scales gave you the astrology. That's all we can do. What you do with that information is up to you.

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:56 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:38 pm
Here's the semi-automated chart interpretation for Craig, for all factors that don't require a birth time.

MOON IN CANCER
Strongly driven by feelings (close to surface, comfortably expressed; sometimes overwhelm). When feeling safe: tender, gentle, humane, openly sensitive; otherwise moody, cocky arrogance. Expressive actor, yet treasures privacy. Magnetic, draws affection, warm, generous, hospitable. Sympathetic listening; trusted. Exudes optimism, confidence. Better serving than leading. Thrives within imagination & fantasy.


SUN IN CANCER
Thrives within imagination & complexity (vision; or lost in fantasy). Lives in others’ shadow; finds purpose in service & emulation. Conceive & deliver results. Persuasive, trusted, instinct for motives. Live in mystery or its resolution: create or solve puzzles. Renewed by home or sanctuary. Sensitive, moody, self-absorbed.

ASPECTS OF SUN
CONJUNCTION MARS Orb 0°22' Applying
Action, drive, accomplishment, vitality, courage. Restless, forthright, direct (perhaps hasty, impatient, temperamental, low frustration tolerance). Strong physical aggression (for business, sex, etc.). Industrious, instinctively leads or commands, thus often promoted.

SEXTILE URANUS Orb 2°56' Separating
Go their own way, unapologetically following their own paths. Easily bored. Loves freedom. Progressive, future-oriented, uninhibited by convention. Self-perspective usually founded in objectivity. Often deeply interested in occultism.


MARS IN CANCER
Inner strength (prodigious imagination & fantasy) usually holds private demons at bay; but clings to old wounds (angry, acting out, selfish, retaliatory from old mistreatment). Breeds confidence, makes things happen; loyal, speaks truth to power; but wants a chance to lead. Magnetic (passionate following?). Wants adoration sexually (otherwise business-like).


MERCURY IN LEO
Bright, takes pride in learning. Derives stature, dignity, and strength from intellect. Refuses to be intimidated by facts. Dislikes "common thinking" and obvious stupidity. Flair for stylish expression; effective communicators. Resourceful.


VENUS IN LEO
"Parents" friends (= unequal relationships). Self-surrender is hard; vain, aloof. Bold when romance captures their interest (but many older bachelors). "Shoppers" in romance, testing the ground first. Early sexual mismatches (unhealthy early relationships). Strong sense of morality & dignity. Generous friend.

ASPECTS OF VENUS
TRINE SATURN Orb 0°41' Separating
Work, duty, devotion are gratifying. Restrictions in love; ordinary pleasures may be deferred. Many seem comfortable unpartnered, though there is rarely sexual restraint. Childhood hardship or deprivation shape adult patterns. Sober, responsible.

CONJUNCTION PLUTO Orb 3°14' Applying
“All or nothing” emotional intensity instinctively rejects others’ (moral and other) arbitrary values on love, sex, art. Typically has few intimates, and those of unfiltered intensity. Halfway measures are not enough; in human connection, the feeling is, “go cosmic, or go home.” Those expressing the ALL mode seek deep, penetrating connections (sometimes overwhelming intimates, sometimes inadvertently challenging social codes). Those in the NOTHING mode may choose it innocently or withdraw from people in response to repeated rebuke and ostracism. For both, sexual development may come late, as adolescent social rituals seem perplexingly arbitrary. Either may experience eruptive trouble in relationships. Either, by their intensity, can be commandingly charismatic.
Thank you for providing this. It is pretty dead on right except that I will say that due to his early ADD/ADHD he was taken out of regular school in 7th grade and his academic learning pretty much came to a halt, and he learned the lessons of the street. He is very proud of what he does know and since I had been with him showing him real sources of information he devoured media. I also believe even though he touts being Christian, the fact that he was interested in me, the local witch, does reinforce this saying he is interested in the occult. I am thinking that the term sober here is in meaning to his demeanor, which is true, but he has no desire for sobriety in his life because he believe that he does have his demons under wrap and can indulge in occasionally.

The Cancer conjunction is very powerful and we do have very uncanny psychic connections. we can spend hours happily not talking and just happy with each other. He does demand all or nothing from people, but is not one to give that back. He flips in a relationship, giving all on day and then nothing, very overly sensitive, and seems to get pms more then I do. Is not willing to discuss the core issues, would rather just ignore the situation and let time ride by and then pretend nothing ever happened.

He was very attached to the tropical chart in which he thought he was the glorious Leo, and was pretty hurt when I tried to show him he was actually a really cool double crab.

User avatar
Jupiter Sets at Dawn
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:25 pm

Veronica wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:56 am
I am thinking that the term sober here is in meaning to his demeanor, which is true, but he has no desire for sobriety in his life because he believe that he does have his demons under wrap and can indulge in occasionally.
Yes. Sober in this context means serious, thoughtful, not silly or giddy.
He does demand all or nothing from people, but is not one to give that back. He flips in a relationship, giving all on day and then nothing, very overly sensitive, and seems to get pms more then I do. Is not willing to discuss the core issues, would rather just ignore the situation and let time ride by and then pretend nothing ever happened.
That's a very good description of Cancer luminaries.
He was very attached to the tropical chart in which he thought he was the glorious Leo, and was pretty hurt when I tried to show him he was actually a really cool double crab.
Cancers who aren't Leos and Capricorns who aren't Aquarians both seem to be pretty unhappy with their "new signs." It's hard to convince them you aren't trying to change anything about them but the label.

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:27 am

One of the things that I believe is important in this relationship is that we both have Venus Trine Saturn. With our sensitive natures (cancer and scorpio) our mutual desires resonated. We loved doing the same things.
I also know that when I look at our charts together and see what you say as nothing there to build upon I wonder if its not so much as what is there, as what is not.
I know that the physical experience I get of that Neptune aspect is the most mind blowing feeling I have ever felt, and that I crave that big over stuffed bed like you say. Like a junkie. I have never been so satisfied sexually for sure, he reads me like a book in every way.
I definitely come across as a girl who is a survivor and does not need a man to do anything for me. I can love em or leave em. maybe for me as a person I needed to feel that crazy lost feeling with him, because it is the most beautiful thing I have ever felt. That's what the feeling in my gut is, the feeling that I know I had the source of what made me feel so content and at peace and safe, and I will never be able to have that again.
when I look at his chart and I can see him spelled out good and bad and know how those good things shine, and how those dark spots manifest, and still say I have this crazy love?lust?fixation?attachment?something with this man.
I also think that I'm very lucky that I have a great perspective to not ever think of anything as "wasted." I believe that my little character Veronica will only ever have a very limited amount of astrology charts to relate to in her little life, and each one of them is an opportunity and a blessing even if I cant see why. I refuse to be restricted by thinking that parts of me are garbage. If I am able to embrace each synastic chart that comes into my life in its highest potential then who knows what could be built.

User avatar
Jupiter Sets at Dawn
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:26 am

Something I've seen in the Cancer psyche is they like to let you chase them till they catch you, and then it's time for a new person to chase them. I've never met one with a Sig Other who didn't have a long story about how they weren't really interested in someone but she or he pursued them and worked very hard to change their mind and get them. Often there are stories of how multiple people were fighting to win them. All of them are supposedly still constantly pursued, despite their being claims of being happy in their current relationship. If the Sig Other appears to stop feeling like they have to be in constant pursuit, the Cancer moves on. It's like a constant state of testing, till they decide they've had enough of you, and then it's just over, and that's that.

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6105
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:42 am

You mean like: "Are you going to keep making me feel like I'm the prize?"

Interesting contrast to the similar (but reverse-motive) testing that Capricorn seems to do non-stop.

Veronica, I get it - especially as an Aquarius-Scorpio, there are certain things you need and you now have them in abundance; and I'm also hearing that there are several things you're getting from him that you love. And (though you are putting different values on things than I might), it does seem that you are aware of the negatives rather than blind to them.

I did begin my summation above by acknowledging that the heart wants what it wants. And I really wish we had a birth time for him - one like the time I speculated would make this picture far, far different than it otherwise seems (but that time is still a speculation; I don't want to pretend it's right).

I'm just worried about people showing up to beat the crap out of you.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:41 pm

"I'm just worried about people showing up to beat the crap out of you."
You are so sweet to say that, and I really take that to heart.
I am staying home and working on my little things as best I can and just focusing on my responsibilities. if you have no involvement there is little reason for others to come. I don't go looking for trouble and I have much better things to do then stir up trouble.
I am one who has lived her life on her sleeve and unabashedly me, and I have always known that to a large portion of the population I am not cool, at all one bit and have often found myself as the projected Anima or archetype of deep rooted characteristics that are seemingly at odd with mine.

Guess the universe knew what to do and gave me lots of Big Brothers and street wise so that when someone does try to attack me, I have a big Mary Poppins bag of tricks to use. I am a scrapper, I admit a terrible temper and have screamed toe to toe with men 3 times my size and not backed down. That woman fought dirty, and in my naiviety to think she was going to do things honorably I let her get the upper hand for a minute. For my first fight with a woman ever, it could have been worse as apparently girls have no honor in matter of war either. I can check that off my bucket list and say, I will never let a stupid thing like other peoples fears get me mad, because I can honestly say that this return that I am going through right now has moved me into a stage of life that makes such things such a waste of time, that I would rather watch the grass grow. which is what I have been doing.

Based on my chart stuff there has always been a theme in my life with stalkers and unwanted pursuits. I am still alive thankfully and I am not putting myself out there to attract any intimate partners at this time. I really am clear on focusing on being home and just being a dork till my kids are ready to move out.

I don't know what you are talking about here or referencing
You mean like:"Are you going to make me feel like I'm the prize"
that statement would fit craig, he wants me to make him feel like the prize.

Yes I do feel tested very much so. it is almost as if he is systamaticily running through his group of friends and seeing if I would cheat with them. This past week he actually pulled out the biggest card he had, the only man I actually had ever been intimate with as a teen. I have very deep feelings for this fellow I met when I was four years old in kindergarten and we have had an on again off again child like thing during our childhood. Craig and Stanley are long time friends. All of these guys around here are all very much a Brotherhood and I honestly dont think that any of these men that he accused me of being with would have the guts to touch me knowing that Craig has feeling for me. So its actually very manipulative and controling and I am sure due to his easily bored nature, very entertaining to him for me to provide him with enteratinment of sorts while actually vetting my loyality. He really beileved that I might be a cop and trying to put him away, so he is very closed lipped about just about everythings. Thats the occult about him.

I appreciate you all taking the time to look at this and provide your insights. I am thinking about it over in my mind and hope that my personal reflections gives you some gleenings into your understanding of what a person with my chart actual is like. its hard to articulate these deep concepts at times and I am thankful that you bear with me and help me along in my own study of the Stars

its all to much like a soap opera, so I took a bow.

User avatar
Jupiter Sets at Dawn
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:20 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:42 am
You mean like: "Are you going to keep making me feel like I'm the prize?"
Pretty much. You have to keep confirming they're special and you know you're so lucky to be able to kiss their feet!
Interesting contrast to the similar (but reverse-motive) testing that Capricorn seems to do non-stop.
Cancer's testing is also non-stop. They seem to prefer one worshiper at a time, but like to have one in the wings to take over when the first one fails them. And nobody ever doesn't fail.

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:47 pm

"PS - On a wild lark, try a birth time for him (purely speculative) of 4:00 AM"

If that is the case then what I see is my Venus sitting right on his desecdant

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6105
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:51 pm

Veronica wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:47 pm
"PS - On a wild lark, try a birth time for him (purely speculative) of 4:00 AM"

If that is the case then what I see is my Venus sitting right on his desecdant
Yes, that;s how I speculated the time. There is far too little between the charts. The only thing that seemed to make sense of your expressed feelings for him is that your Venus be exactly on his angle. (That was forced as a starting place of the spectification.)
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:02 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:51 pm
Veronica wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:47 pm
"PS - On a wild lark, try a birth time for him (purely speculative) of 4:00 AM"

If that is the case then what I see is my Venus sitting right on his desecdant
Yes, that;s how I speculated the time. There is far too little between the charts. The only thing that seemed to make sense of your expressed feelings for him is that your Venus be exactly on his angle. (That was forced as a starting place of the spectification.)
well isn't that special.
based on the things he has said to me, I think that this is the correct time.
doesnt really change where Im at in this relationship but does explain a lot of things.

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6105
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:04 pm

Notice that it gives him an angular Venus in the birthchart also.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:21 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:04 pm
Notice that it gives him an angular Venus in the birthchart also.
missed that
you are so cool

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:29 am

If he was born at 4am? that is a whole nother ball park isn't it. but I don't think it would change your response much at all.


potential trine between Craigs Sun/Mars conjunction in Cancer and My Jupiter/moon/Neptune conjunction in scorpio.

there also seems to be a trine of venus/pluto/Saturn/venus


I seem to have trouble understanding the blending that comes with conjunctions

looking at the angles I notice my mars just chilling all alone it seems.

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:54 pm

Last night I could not take the ambiguity of my relationship with Craig. It is very hard for me to call him. There is a lot of anxiety that things will go poorly. We both have impulse control issues, and are over sensitive. I do call, and we make small talk for a while and then he is trying to end the conversation and so I say that I need to speak to him face to face that I need to ask him something. He invites me over. I have no clue what I am going to really say, or what I hope to accomplish, but I had to try something.
I have always been very clear with him that Iove him, and that I cant even think of another man. He doesn’t seem to ever believe me, (I feel deep inside that he does though) or that that’s what he wants to hear. It’s the solid truth though, and it is playing with my head.
I am not the same woman
When I was with my husband I thought about other men, I’ve always thought about other men. I’ve flirted and been very naughty in some ways. I don’t have that in me any more, and it kills me that he doesn’t see that, or felt that.
Maybe I’m angry that my love didn’t change him, but he changed me, or jealous in some way.
When I arrive hes tidying up the kitchen and pretty much does that the whole time I am there. I basically straight out asked him if he had any intentions of getting back with me, that I cant take not being with him and just playing phone games with each other. To which I got something like “ im not looking for, I don’t have time, Im busy, its been months, Im with Teressa now, we can be friends”
Blood boils, seeing red. Mind racing.I told him “all or nothing, I cant only be your friend I am in love with you, I want to be your lover.” And he was decidedly like, I want us to be friends.

I said, “ok well be friends, I wont send you love letters or nice texts or anything, just friends.”
I grabbed my purse, turned around and left.
Went out to my car. Said F this Sh. And walked back up and in the house.
I needed to know what he meant by being friends.
I don’t have friends. I have people I like, people mostly like me, but I don’t go out and hang and have dinner parties or things friendly like. I used to. Didn’t get me anywhere. I am a friend. I call people, I go visit, I helped out. But nobody ever called me, nobody visits me. If I don’t put out the effort there is no contact. That my life.
He knows this, but I refreshed his memory. I challenged him and told him I was the best friend he would ever have, that I know him better then anyone else and understand him.
I told him I didn’t know what to do, that I wanted to build my life with him. I put it on him completely. He came and wooed me and now here I am still in love and wanting him, so I told him it was up to him. I asked if he wanted me to go away, to leave him alone, to stop. I said it was wrong for him to be talking to me like this if he was with her. I asked if he loved her and he said yea I guess. It didn’t even bother me, I’m sure he does love her in some way. This man is a master of watching how he says things. He doesn’t lie. Yet I know he loves me too, if he didn’t he would have me there. He wouldn’t be in contact at all. He’d just block my number and be done. He hates drama.
At one point when I am really getting on him and trying to get him to open up and be honest, he just says something like “you havnt been here in 5 months, what do you expect just to show up and then get married, I cant do that.” ( I had been there 4 times now since, once 3 weeks ago on a Sunday morning to bust up a party for him). We sat in the kitchen. I was there about an hour, it was late and I was tired.
So long story short.
We had a nice chat and cleared up a lot of things. I hugged and kissed him goodbye, told him I loved him and that I knew he loved me too in his own way.

I came home and checked our charts and I tell ya I was really impressed with what I saw going on in both of our charts. I didn’t look at our synastry chart yet. But our conversation definitely covered a lot of the ground that the aspect refer to, and I do think our relationship what ever it really is, is at a different level. I know that I am in a different head space for sure. I am still in love with him, and its ok with me that he’s not down for getting to entangled with me.
I do think that I changed him, even though I really didn’t intend to. I love him for how he treats me and I am sorry that I hurt him by leaving him when I get angry instead of dealing with the issue. I guess that I felt so comfortable with him, that I took for granted that he would be there when I cooled off.
Pluto mars and Saturn were on the descendant
Venus and the moon were conjunct both our n. Saturns
Mars and Pluto were conjunct my Venus

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 6105
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:08 pm

Whew. For a few minutes there, I thought I was going to read point by point a murder confession :)
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

Veronica
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Veronica and Craig

Post by Veronica » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:38 am

I have always been attracted your sence of humor Mr. Eshelman.

I have always also been attracted to your ability to cut the BS, make people want to do their own work, and demonstrate self mastery in a very sensitive yet cool way.

I thought it was a point by point murder confession. ;)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest