New Relationship

Q&A and discussion about Synastry, i.e., relationship analysis through the comparison of two horoscopes.
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Avshalom Binyamin
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New Relationship

Post by Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:25 pm

His Info
October 8, 1980, 12:00noon, San Diego, CA

Her info
May 6, 1991, 5:53PM, Portland, OR

This is a relationship that caught me by surprise. When we met immediately after my last relationship ended, I didn't initially see us as compatible. But then we got each other's jokes in a way that was unusual for me, and as we've moved slowly forward, it's been pretty delightful.

For bad stuff, I see some Saturn aspects (though I don't see interpretation resources for Saturn-Saturn and Saturn-Jupiter aspects). And I see a Mercury-Neptune trine. In my last relationship there was a Mercury-Neptune aspect, I was the Mercury, and the relationship ended when I discovered what I considered to be a really important lying by omission situation. In this relationship, I'm the Neptune. I don't want to ever betray her with dishonesty. Is there a difference between a trine and an oct?

His Sun:
Trine her Moon 0 deg
Square her Neptune 1 deg
Square her Uranus 2 deg
Conjunct her AC 3 degr
Square her Mars 3 deg
Opp her Mercury 5 deg

His Moon:
Square her Uranus 2 deg
Trine her Moon 4 deg
Square her Neptune 5 deg
Conjunct her AC 7 deg

His Jupiter
Square her Venus 1 deg

His Saturn
Sextile her Jupiter 4 deg
Square her Venus 4 deg
Trine her Saturn 5 deg

His Pluto
Conjunct her AC 2 deg

Her Sun
Opp his Mercury 5 deg

Her Moon
Trine his Sun 0 deg
Sextile his Neptune 4 deg
Square his Mercury 4 deg
Trine his Moon 4 deg
Trine his Pluto 5 deg

Her Venus
Square his Jupiter 1 deg
Square his Saturn 4 deg

Her Mars
Squares his Pluto 2 deg
Squares his Sun 3 deg
Trines his Uranus 4 deg

Her Jupiter
Sextiles his Saturn 4 deg
Squares his Mercury 5 deg

Her Saturn
Squares his Mercury 4 deg
Trines his Saturn 5 deg
Trines his Moon 5 deg

LEVEL 1
SUN-MOON
One of the most favorable interchanges for any type of relationship, especially marriage. There is a natural impetus for these two people to get together. (Most people naturally gravitate toward those whose Suns strongly aspect the native's Moon.) The Moon is able to take a major interest in the Sun's person and adapt to the Sun's long-term ambitions. The Sun provides the Moon with a sense of importance that the Moon does not otherwise normally experience.
LEVEL 2
SUN-NEPTUNE
Neptune exaggerates both the good and the bad of this situation. In general, Neptune feels confused, embarrassed, and inadequate in the Sun's presence, making it difficult for either to communicate sensibly with the other. The Sun can easily humble or awe Neptune, perhaps having some secret or quality which makes the Sun appear Neptune's superior.

SUN-URANUS
This relationship has its basis in constant diversity and variety. There is an instant, electrical attraction and such spontaneity between the two. Rarely does boredom enter the picture, and the two are likely to have much fun together. They may travel together.

MOON-URANUS
An element of thrill and excitement is interjected into this association. Dullness is rarely present, and Uranus may introduce the Moon to some new lifestyle.

VENUS-JUPITER
Each benefits from the other. Jupiter is always conscious of public images, and wants to be seen with the most beautiful and charming people. He lavishes affection and gifts upon Venus, the Fairest of the Fair in his eyes. Venus, quite pleased, turns her affections toward the Jupiterian, possibly with the feeling that she is consorting with royalty.

MARS-PLUTO
There is a strong need for intensive physical expression of some sort. Mars may be coercive, unmercifully attacking Pluto and taking every available advantage of him. Masochistic Pluto may even relish this treatment at times, and subconsciously invite it in his actions. Mars attacks what he cannot understand and, to the brash martian, Pluto is probably the most difficult to understand of all!
LEVEL 3
SUN-MARS
Somehow Mars incites the Sun to action, not caring to see the Sun sit about inactively. This is a strongly physical aspect, common among married couples, but it also instills a strong element of competition into any relationship. Mars is greatly inflamed with desire by the Sun's presence, perhaps treating the Sun as a demigod or some creature deserving special esteem. This naturally inflates the Sun's ego. For this reason, the interchange is even common among good friends of the same sex, though Mars is constantly egging the Sun to match that image. At its worst, it can be highly combative, but the Sun is well prepared to handle himself in the case of attack.

SUN-MERCURY
Communication is the dominant trait. Often the Sun somehow impels or inspires Mercury to self-expression, or adopts a mentor role.

MOON-MOON
A superb contact with a broad feeling of simpatico. The emotions of these two people are in close tune. They share similar interests, and respond to the tone of the world in much the same style. Not particularly common in marriage, but nonetheless a pleasing contact.

MOON-NEPTUNE
Madness is in the air! Neptune in particular is totally flustered or embarrassed by the Moon's presence, and in his desire to set things aright and hide his insecurity be babbles on to his utter mortification. This causes nothing but confusion between the two involved.

Saturn-Jupiter

VENUS-SATURN
In some way, Saturn inhibits Venus' happiness or pleasure. Sometimes it indicates frustrated love, Saturn being inaccessible despite Venus' strong attraction to him. Venus may for some reason sacrifice her own pleasure out of a sense of devotion to Saturn, as in taking care of an ailing Saturn.

Saturn-Saturn

MOON-PLUTO
Few people outside of this relationship looking in can totally understand it, for it often takes on strange characteristics. In general, Pluto remains aloof and distant and tends to hold the Moon in awe. Fagan compared Pluto's relationship with the Moon to that of the hypnotist to his subject, the sadist to the masochist, the one who knows to the one who does not know.

MARS-URANUS
There is opportunity for carefree, uncommitted sexual contact, especially if they meet while traveling. It may indicate Mars creating obstacles to the Uranian's dreams and goals.

MERCURY-JUPITER
Jupiter has the highest regard for Mercury's ideas and mode of expression, and does everything in his power to promote Mercury. This is a superb business combination, though usually with Mercury responsible for actual production while Jupiter runs the show. STATS: Significantly common between the charts of parents and children.
MERCURY-SATURN
Saturn seems closed-eared to what Mercury has to say, offering it little respect and subconsciously shutting off his mind to it. Because Mercury cannot "get through" to Saturn, Saturn appears (to Mercury) to be stupid and slow to learn even the most basic things. This is not comfortable for business associations, or for teacher-pupil situations. STATS: Significantly uncommon between the charts of parents and children.

MOON-SATURN
Saturn somehow inhibits the Moon from fully expressing her emotions or remains unresponsive to the latter's sensuous solicitations. Though often present among lifelong friends, it is not particularly conducive to domestic happiness together.
TRANSITS

Her Planets
Neptune Square Sun
Venus Square Jupiter
Mercury Trine Neptune
Mercury Opp Pluto
NEPTUNE aspecting Natal SUN
Long-held ideas about who you are and where you are headed seem less certain, more nebulous. Confusion temporarily reigns on issues of identity, self-image, professional goals, and life-direction. Ego development is a gradual, rhythmic process of establishing, then dispersing and changing, one's identity; and your present stage marks a partial dissolving of your ego-structure to let a larger self-picture eventually emerge. Doubts, inferiority feelings, moodiness, introverted self-consciousness, feeling misunderstood or unfairly treated may all occur. Most of your responses are exaggerated, and negatives more easily catch your attention. Solve problems through simplification, not adding more factors to the equation. Your enhanced sensitivity sponsors creativity. An interest in metaphysics or philosophy nourishes the soul at this vulnerable time. You can now create a powerful new reality if you focus your will on the task. Remember: the only difference between fantasy and vision is whether you intend a thing will really happen!

T VENUS - N JUPITER
Warm, congenial, cooperative, probably social. Emphasis on pleasure. Pleasure through food, gala festivities, quality art, people. Friends may show bearing gifts.

T MERCURY - N NEPTUNE
Mind deals with fantasy better than fact. Foggy thinking, strange perceptions, fascination with the surreal, confused communications, metaphysical thought.

T MERCURY - N PLUTO
Confrontation. Decisions are called due, perhaps commitments made. Need for unambiguous answers. Stress, irritability.
His Planets
Pluto Opp Mercury
Neptune Trine Mercury
Jupiter Square Venus
PLUTO aspecting Natal MERCURY
Your opinions - in fact your whole way of thinking - are passing through considerable change. In a revolt against lazy, prosaic thinking, your acute, penetrating detective's mind peers more deeply and observes less naively. Others may feel alienated by your impatience and willingness to confront any shortsighted concept, almost obsessively demanding answers where previously you have had none. Thinking along independent or bizarre lines, you may achieve a newly profound understanding of truth.

NEPTUNE aspecting Natal MERCURY
Your sensory and extrasensory perceptions are very sensitized. The normal division between the intellectual and imaginative parts of your brain is weakened so that rational and nonrational thoughts intermix somewhat indiscriminately. This may result in confusion, as imagination and sensation overwhelm the mind, a misplaced emphasis being your current key to most miscues. In one sense your mind is acutely clear right now; but its perceptions are mostly not of the physical reality in which you normally operate, being more symbolic and mythic in nature; i.e., your perceptions have the quality of dreams. It is important, therefore, that you attentively discriminate fact from fantasy in your practical activities, especially contracts and other paperwork. Prolonged concentration may require more effort. Misjudgment, logical errors and distractions are more common than usual. Realize that the whimsical, the creative, the intuitive and conceptual are where you shine now much more than the practical. Triple-check all practical matters and all important communications; then profit from the advantages of this freer access to right-brain consciousness.

JUPITER aspecting Natal VENUS
Pleasure is now the keynote of your life. Your interest in sharing good times and good feelings with others is strong. You simply enjoy people more, and give yourself more opportunity to be with them. Discovering a new confidence and certainty in your feelings, you find love and friendship both more important now, and easier to find. Romance prospers, as do other love matters. Your attractiveness and openness become especially apparent to others. Popularity increases. Special social occasions, such as engagements, weddings, and births, tend to happen at times like this. Pursuit of pleasure leans toward the immoderate. Only if you are in a situation where it is impossible to be with others will this transit likely bring the discomfort of loneliness.

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: New Relationship

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:57 pm

Quick first impression:

I normally would pay little to no attention to trines in synastry, but that 0°14' trine of her Moon to your Sun is enough for me to at least tip anything else in the positive direction.

Of the "big six" in the quick check, her Saturn moderately squares your Mercury, her Venus is widely foreground in your chart and moderately square your Saturn, her Mars squares your Pluto closely and Sun moderately. That, by itself, sounds mostly OK with a heavy push of intense physicality - mostly "ho hum" but tipped toward more enthusiasm by the Moon-Sun.

Flipping it around, we get the striking effect of your luminaries - especially Sun - but also your Pluto on her Ascendant. That's a lot of impact on her! Your Pluto also (across her horizon) is 0°13' from opposite her Mercury - you blow her mind - as well as square her Mars. Oh, and your Jupiter squares her Venus, much closer than your Saturn.

So, from her pov especially, this is really good. :) More later... this isn't the whole picture.
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Re: New Relationship

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:04 pm

Also, there is no Moon-Mars :D
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Re: New Relationship

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:25 pm

Partile transits to you by her:

The first and outermost is her Neptune to your Sun. I think I missed that in the [excessively] quick look above. This represents all sorts of things you can look up, but basically a period when your sense of who you are and where you're headed in life is... diffused, made foggy, made vague. It's useful when what he need is to soften rigid edges and lose track of decisions and certainties already solidified in order to make space to get something quite different. Neptune especially works through merger needs, so it has more than a little relevance in relationships.

Next, her Uranus is partile semi-square your Mars. Within the pattern already established, you are inclined to be bold and to give way to a sense that there is something exciting in yielding enthusiastically to temptation.

Her Jupiter sesqui-squares your Neptune. I still get a continuation of "guilty pleasures." Side issues like able to talk philosophy etc.

Her Mars semi-squares your Venus. There could indeed be some sex involved :) . With Mars to your Venus, you are more visceral with inflamed emotions. Things are getting fired up. If these were real transits, this would be a day you would be quite emboldened to pursue something and throw yourself in.

Mercury opposes your Pluto. There is confrontation - literally, standing in face-presence of each other - with no easy evasion. It will be hard to avoid saying things, hard to withhold. This could make for some tension; or, with all that Neptune, there's a sense of the (probably beneficial) power of living in a state of disequilibrium, doubting your footing, having to be utterly candid and forthright in your communications.


Partile transits to her by you:

It's the same aspects, but they nest differently. To begin with, the first she experiences, setting the context for the rest, is Pluto transiting her Mercury. You kinda blow her mind. You represent a "time" in which the structure of her thought is being dismantled and restructured. Therefore, things look different to her than they have in the past.

Neptune is octile her Jupiter. This one is strange enough that we might have to see where the other aspects take us. I've most often seen others under this transit experience loneliness and a hope to be included, a chance to participate. It can lead to dreams and optimism, it can push one's habitual morals, it can she a financial drain or a smudged reputation, and it thrives with drama, ritual, philosophy. Pairing it with Pluto-Mercury doesn't make it any clearer. We need to go further to see where this goes.

Mars them octiles her Uranus - a day of a chance, boldness, the consequences of risks. Venus octiles her Mars, so there's a good chance that these risks are sexual: there is enthusiasm and emotional vitality set in play. Sun squares her Neptune, so she is likely to be confused, disoriented, yet quite willing to "go for it" in the sense of willing to look vulnerable and foolish.

That's a strength that goes both ways: a willingness to humiliate yourself in front of the other. To be vulnerable.

So... I don't know that this is a "thing for life;" but it definitely has some positive indicators and could be enjoyed and valued by each of you.

I think it's likely she's pretty crazy about you - or could be.
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Re: New Relationship

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:30 pm

Her life is ready to change - to be upended and flow in new directions. Pluto exactly squares (within minutes) the opposition of your Pluto to her Mercury. Pluto squares her Mercury from her IC (it's still moving in).
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Avshalom Binyamin
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Re: New Relationship

Post by Avshalom Binyamin » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:15 pm

This all makes sense, and helps me understand her(and this new relationship) better. Thank you.

Yes, my self-conception is deeply challenged. She's young and gorgeous, and has the kind of energy that makes men behave cartoonishly around her. So I'm constantly surprised that she's into me, and she does feel like a guilty pleasure.

As a dad and a person who tends toward polyamory, I have a hard time imagining a happy domestic situation with anyone. The mere mention of monogamy is usually enough to make me feel trapped. But here I find myself with zero desire to date anyone else, because I'm perfectly content with her (she doesn't pressure me--emotionally :twisted:). It's odd how serene it feels.

Yes, our communication is strange. When we talk about relationship stuff, we both get awkward, stammer-y, and forthright.

But yes, overall, it seems like we've each been a positive force in each others lives so far.

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Re: New Relationship

Post by Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:46 am

And now the relationship is over. It hurts, but it's ok.

Tonight with a Mercury-Pluto octile i wanted clarity around our relationship, and we confronted some of our incompatibilities.

She didn't really want to be a significant part of my daughter's life, and possibly wants to have a kid of her own at some point. But for now a light relationship is more interesting to her.

My feelings for her have been strong, and I've been all about the Venus-Pluto this year (and Neptune, per usual). So a light, "for now" thing with her isn't appealing, and in fact, has become painful. I'd rather be single, or in a relationship with more commitment.

So, after talking tonight, I ended it.

I don't know if the Pluto-Venus transits that have been a big theme are changing me permanently, if the craving for a deeper emotional connection is just a phase or a fantasy, if I'm ever going to be in happy life-long relationship or not, and how much of that is about personal karma, relationship skills, maturation, or just meeting the right person at the right time.

Time will tell, and it will be ok.

I feel good about the decision.

The relationship was good for helping me grow. It helped my self esteem. It wasn't toxic. It wasn't traumatic. The connection was real. And through my connection with her I was able to get my chakras open again.

And though some of our relationship tension was brought on by my deep lifelong unhealthy belief in my own unlovability, in this case I think the life work of letting go of that belief meant letting go of this romantic relationship. If that makes sense.

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Re: New Relationship

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:08 am

And doesn't astrology make the journey of self-discovery an even more fascinating trip!
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Avshalom Binyamin
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Re: New Relationship

Post by Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:08 am

It does.

It scares me a bit to let it inform my choices, because that seems kind of "crazy".

But then again, it seems to describe situations with uncanny clarity. And it is part of a shift in how I am choosing things in life, with a greater emphasis on being more in tune with myself.

So that's good. Humans always have to choose with imperfect information. It's not about correctness of belief, but of usefulness. And sidereal astrology has been useful.

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