Sec.Progress.& Converse Progr. as Synastry tool

Q&A and discussion about Synastry, i.e., relationship analysis through the comparison of two horoscopes.
Post Reply
User avatar
Danica
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2508
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 10:19 pm

Sec.Progress.& Converse Progr. as Synastry tool

Post by Danica » Mon May 08, 2017 11:10 am

Aug 5 2016

In another thread, Jim shared his findings about usefulness of applying Sec.Progressions and their Converse in synastry analysis.

Since it's an interesting approach, probably new to most of astrology students, I'm opening this separate thread about it.
Jim Eshelman wrote:I should add, there is one place I have reliably used converse methods more often than any other. It's a particular use of direct and converse secondary progressions (full quotidian treatment) in synastry. (I think Bradley turned me onto this, but I might be remembering wrong.)

It is this: You progress each person's chart to the moment and place the other was born, as if seeing what kind of life-event the other's birth was for you; and also relocate that progressed chart to the location where you have the relationship, if that differs.

Since one person is older and the other is younger, one if these secondary progressed charts is a direct progression and the other is a converse. It just happens to turn out that way :)

For example, progressing my chart to the moment and place of my first wife's birth has progressed Moon partile square my Mars. In the best and worst senses, we had an utterly Moon-Mars relationship (to the point where I really felt I had to count the two 8° Moon-Mars interchanges we had).

Progress my chart to Anna-Kria's birth and Moon is 21°23' Pisces, 65' from exact opposition to my Sun - and it was certainly one of those Sun-Moon themed partnerships. Uranus and Jupiter straddle the quotidian MC. There was also a partile progressed Venus-Saturn conjunction that (in good and bad ways, and large and small ways) ran through the relationship most of its course. Her SNQ to my moment and place of birth put my Sun square Ascendant (and something distinctive to our long-term interlocking: our progressed Suns always ran in exact square: even progressing her chart to my birth shows her progressed Sun 04' from exact square to my Sun). She also had a 20' progressed Moon-Neptune square just outside the orb of progressed Venus also. (Also a 35' Mars-Saturn square, but she's had that most of her life, due to the particular speed of Mars when he was born.) And more...

For my present-and-future mate, Marion, there is Uranus abundant. We already have that in the natal comparison, because her Uranus is partile semisquare my Sun. Among all the details of the relationship, I've never had another where there was more of a continuing sense that things were always new, always something else opening, always an exploration of ourselves and our interests. Specifically, my progressed Moon at her birth was 3°34' Cancer, right in the middle of my partile Jupiter-Uranus conjunction, and transiting Uranus (her Uranus) on the SNQ IC. I have a partile progressed Venus-Jupiter trine. Sun is partile conjunct Neptune (39') which I have to admit I'm confused about (LOL) - it probably shows the depth of attachment, as Neptune does (and our shared exploration and career in wine). Oh, yeah, progressed Mars partile opposes that Moon-Jupiter-Uranus cluster, which applies in numerous ways.

What stands out most in this, though, is the precision of these contacts, the sense that if I'd been scanning a decade of progressed aspects, I'd have single this month out as "wow, something really big is happening right here, and it will be good" - and then other factors narrowed it to the day.

Flip it to her chart progressed to my birth - which is technically a converse progression, since I'm older - and we get a repeat of Uranus (this time, square MC 16') and a number of things that bring her to the fore, that draw her out, not the least of which is her progressed Sun on SNQ MC and conjunct her natal Ascendant.
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

User avatar
Danica
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2508
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: Sec.Progress.& Converse Progr. as Synastry tool

Post by Danica » Mon May 08, 2017 11:11 am

Aug 5 2016
SteveS wrote:So, if I understand, we use converse progressions with the youngest person in the relationship to the birth of the oldest person in the relationship, correct?
Yes, when we are looking what kind of "event" is the older person in relationship for the younger one, we use converse progression; and when looking at the opposite direction, what kind of "event" is the younger one to the older one in a particular relationship, we use the "normal" progression.
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

User avatar
Danica
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2508
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: Sec.Progress.& Converse Progr. as Synastry tool

Post by Danica » Mon May 08, 2017 11:11 am

Aug 6 2016
Jim Eshelman wrote:
SteveS wrote:So, if I understand, we use converse progressions with the youngest person in the relationship to the birth of the oldest person in the relationship, correct?
I should clarify something on this: In Solar Fire, you don't check the Converse box - you just calculate to the earlier time. It's going backwards in time, so to speak, so it requires similar principles in the universe as converse progressions.

I was born October 10, 1954, 4:13 AM, Rochester, IN. Danica was born April 22 1983, 10:25 PM, Zajecar, Serbia. It's nothing unusual, in theory or practice, to progress my chart to April 22 1983, 10:25 PM, Zajecar, Serbia (which, incidentally, puts my natal and progressed Venus on IC, etc.). The other half is to progress her chart to October 10, 1954, 4:13 AM, Rochester, IN, which also produces nothing in usual in practice (no extra boxes to check), but does require a different kind of thinking in theory, since it is asking the question of how she relates to a point in time before she was born. To check that we're doing this the same way: It gives an Ascendant 13°15' Sagittarius and, ouch, puts a Sun-Saturn opposition right along the meridian (progressed Saturn being 0°30' from MC) and natal Neptune on EP. (Danica, apologies in advance if your knowing me has ever given you anything like the kind of experience those Q contacts suggest :( ).
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

User avatar
Danica
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2508
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: Sec.Progress.& Converse Progr. as Synastry tool

Post by Danica » Mon May 08, 2017 11:12 am

Aug 6 2016
Jim Eshelman wrote:
SteveS wrote:So, if I understand, we use converse progressions with the youngest person in the relationship to the birth of the oldest person in the relationship, correct?
I should clarify something on this: In Solar Fire, you don't check the Converse box - you just calculate to the earlier time. It's going backwards in time, so to speak, so it requires similar principles in the universe as converse progressions.
Thank you for clarifying. I was doing it yesterday with checking the "converse" box when looking at progression of younger person to the time-place of birth of the older, and I was getting some really odd results; for example, for one life-important but strenuous and painful relationship, a partile Moon-Venus square; for the longest-lasting, intimate loving relationship and friendship there was almost nothing in the progressed chart, except for my natal Moon on IC of the chart (not nearly enough to describe it!).
I was born October 10, 1954, 4:13 AM, Rochester, IN. Danica was born April 22 1983, 10:25 PM, Zajecar, Serbia. It's nothing unusual, in theory or practice, to progress my chart to April 22 1983, 10:25 PM, Zajecar, Serbia (which, incidentally, puts my natal and progressed Venus on IC, etc.). The other half is to progress her chart to October 10, 1954, 4:13 AM, Rochester, IN, which also produces nothing in usual in practice (no extra boxes to check), but does require a different kind of thinking in theory, since it is asking the question of how she relates to a point in time before she was born. To check that we're doing this the same way: It gives an Ascendant 13°15' Sagittarius and, ouch, puts a Sun-Saturn opposition right along the meridian (progressed Saturn being 0°30' from MC) and natal Neptune on EP. (Danica, apologies in advance if your knowing me has ever given you anything like the kind of experience those Q contacts suggest :( ).
I do experience interchange with you as primarily activating my natal Sun-Saturn opposition! You're among the very few great Teachers for me in this incarnation; your words and work have been definitely life-impactful, in the most positive, growth-oriented way.
Regarding Neptune, I notice a tendency to confusion in our communication.

Do you look at aspects SNQ makes with both natal charts?
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

User avatar
Danica
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2508
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 10:19 pm

Re: Sec.Progress.& Converse Progr. as Synastry tool

Post by Danica » Mon May 08, 2017 11:12 am

Aug 6 2016
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Danica wrote:Do you look at aspects SNQ makes with both natal charts?
The other person's planets are transits, so you have the normal interaction of your natal, your progressions, and (the other person's natal serving as) transits.

Kinda interesting, no? It was probably mostly from this technique that I evolved my point of view that, astrologically, each of us represents a particular intersection of time and space with which others are interacting. Whether it is other people (who are themselves intersections of time and space) or an event (which is a particular sliding intersection of time and space), synastry and predictive work and pretty much everything else boils down to: The interaction between two discrete time-space intersections.

After realizing this, I thought it hilarious that someone we are seeing socially or wooing we call "a date" :D
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

Ph.Ars
Satellite Member
Satellite Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:03 pm
Gender:

Re: Sec.Progress.& Converse Progr. as Synastry tool

Post by Ph.Ars » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:09 am

I have reading whole forum and found these theme. Maybe is interesting to see Paul Westran work on http://www.positiveastrology.com/ about progressed synastry

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests