Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Q&A and discussion about Synastry, i.e., relationship analysis through the comparison of two horoscopes.
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:54 pm

Arena asked:
Steve, how long a time passed from when you met and started the courtship with your wife and until you got married?
We met in June 1970 through my best friend—they were cousins. We married in Jan 1971.

Arena wrote:
I see you mention your relationship was tested... it seems to be at a similar timing for the SA Pluto to your comp AC, right?
Yes, same time comp SA Saturn=Sun-Venus. Damn good catch Arena!

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:21 pm

:lol: Yes Jim! Explains a-lot with you and Trump’s composite. Gave me the insight to check out the composite that almost broke my marriage apart. Note that partile Mercury-Venus cnj and with a Sidereal Astrology slant with partile Mars cnj WP in RA. Just by noting the angular planets---well we all get the picture of Venus-Mars!

A flirting seducing composite relationship between me and Steph:
https://imgur.com/u8PSuvH

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:38 pm

Ive been reading and looking at composite chart for the past year pretty hard core.

It showed me the fine interweaving of all existance, living and not. 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon to the max.

My composite chart with my mother, may she rest in peace, is as valid today as when she was living.

I looked at yours and Mr. trumps too Jim and I did laugh and I thought about what if you two were in an elevator.

It also made me think of certain specific geometric pattern I had looked into in sacred geometry and the paths of the planets and things like light and sound and hrtz. But maybe I was just letting my mind wander down into fancy with some of that, but I did see deep patterns and strange combinations unfolding as i progressed and progressed and progressed certain charts.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Arena » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:41 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:33 pm
Arena wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:24 pm
And Jim, can you please tell us what you see when you move your composite from the time you actually started the courtship with your partner and then if something special is going on this year, 2019, when the couple gets married? Just by moving one degree for each year from the start date of your relationship until now?
Applying 1°/year from that time forward, nothing at all is partile this year.
Anything within 2°?

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Arena » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:46 am

SteveS wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:54 pm
Arena asked:
Steve, how long a time passed from when you met and started the courtship with your wife and until you got married?
We met in June 1970 through my best friend—they were cousins. We married in Jan 1971.
Yes, this is what I would have thought. Your date of meeting/courtship is so close to your wedding date that you would not actually be able to see much difference in SA comp.

Keep in mind the solar arcs from the point in time when a courtship starts. Jim and I are good examples of this... we are both in a long term partnership with people, but there is no wedding date (yet) ... so my idea is that the composite may rather be "started" from the day the courtship starts. But there is also Jim's perspective of it being in play from birth, even though the people haven't met. So I guess this need quite a bit of testing :) ...but not ONLY the wedding date, but rather compare with first meeting/first courtship date when it comes to couples.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:57 am

Arena wrote:
Keep in mind the solar arcs from the point in time when a courtship starts.
For sure Arena, could be more important than the wedding date, and no doubt if there is no wedding date.

Arena wrote:
…so my idea is that the composite may rather be "started" from the day the courtship starts.
This makes good sense to me.

Arena wrote:
So I guess this need quite a bit of testing :) ...but not ONLY the wedding date, but rather compare with first meeting/first courtship date when it comes to couples.
Without a doubt Arena -lots of testing. It is somewhat difficult to get lots of samples with accurate data for a starting date of courtship, along with the main incidents with any types of long- standing relationships, probably there is a lot of private stuff never to be known for a reliable statistical analysis. Maybe a good source would be married Hollywood couples who had been married for many years---then divorced. Or when one of the spouses passed away ending the relationship, but I am not sure I would want to know this type of info with proven SAs. This type married/divorce info would probably be easy to access on the internet. So far, all I really know as appearing as a valid technique with SAing the composite chart itself is with my marriage relationship composite and with JFK/Jacqueline Kennedy composite. I still have lots of questions about the composite chart but still think an improved way to see more clearly into a composite chart is with main principles of Sidereal Astrology. House delineations appear to be working with 4 or more midpoints in the same house, but House delineation is a very tricky/vague business. I am probably going to be analyzing more composite charts of public couples with Solar Arcing if I can find reliable data.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:55 am

The more I peer into the workings of a composite chart with my marriage relationship of 48 years as explained by Robert Hand in his definitive book, ‘Planets In Composite,’ the more I am seeing profound significance of the Composite Chart. Hand writes from his book:
The composite chart deals with relationships in a new way. The technique takes into account the fact that a relationship of any kind is not simply two (or more) people together; it is also an entity in its own right. If two people are involved with each other, there are three entities—the two people and their relationship. Often in everyday experience we know of people whose being together makes no sense but who have an excellent and fulfilling relationship. Somehow, being together calls up parts of themselves that were not apparent before. These new parts really belong to the third entity, the relationship.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:50 am

When I looked at the composite charts, progressing, over the course of my life with:
My mother
My father
My six siblings
My first boyfriend
My husband
My two children
And Craig, who I have a sun/venus opposition/conjunction
As well as some others who I have had meaningful connections with.....

I see very clearly how ALL of these relationships are intermingled within me, and carry with me as I progress in life. And how my particapation with those people is within them as well as they carry themselves through life.

The profound chart I have with my children the moment Sabrina was born is alive in all three of us, progressing in its own way based upon our own individual progressions. How we three us that in our own lives determines the quality of our time through space.

In psychology I would call this the collective unconsciousness.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:44 am

:D Very well stated V about the composite chart. I have no children, but if I did-- the composite chart would be the chief chart I would monitor with my children. I wish the teachings of the composite chart would be able to be taught to all beginning astrologers.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:46 am

Steven,
I wish the teachings of the composite charts could be taught to all. Thats how very important I feel it is.

I believe that when Jim....in first posting Craigs chart and giving his summary stated the importance of all of these charts when he causually said
It depends on how secure he is

This security we have as individuals is tied to our relationship to all the others in the world. If some ties are shaky or weak or strong and deep they will carry into all of our relationships.

Jim has also pointed out that there is always something more to look into. To focus on and examine. When we actively engage in a relationship and put focus and attention, time and space, we are stengthening or giving energy to something, for good or ill. Its our choices in which relationships we focus on and feed into that determines the quality of our life.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:29 am

V wrote:
I wish the teachings of the composite charts could be taught to all.
Me too V. When I first purchased Hand’s book ‘Planets In Composite’ back in the late 70s, I think (can’t remember for sure) I read a little of the book and gave up on the book because I immediately realized I couldn’t calculate the composite chart, not enough math/astronomy skills. Then by ancient I was rummaging through some stored boxes of old astrology books a couple of weeks ago, which I culled out many years ago thinking they were no use to me, and found Hand’s book realizing I now had a computer and SF which could calculate a composite chart in seconds. And now more and more I am seeing the value of this book for astrologers worldwide. Hand stated in his book:
When I first encountered composites charts in 1972 I was not impressed. It struck me as a formal mathematical device based on a gimmick that did not reflect any kind of astrological reality. Needless to say, this was an a priori opinion not based on experience, which illustrates the danger of such judgments in astrology. Later I became convinced that the technique was valid…
This is exactly what happened to me when I first started reading Hand’s composite book—I was very skeptical but the more I looked deeper into other couple’s composites which I had known for a long time—the more I realized—geez this is a very important book and chart which appears to have slipped beneath the astrological community radar. Its like I found a valuable gold coin with a metal detector buried deep underground, which is exciting my astrological soul very much with new important astrological discoveries. :)

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Re: Composite Charts for Natal Midpoints

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:31 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:53 pm
There are two terribly interesting mathematical properties of many Composite chart aspects that arise from Composite planets being midpoints.

These two mathematical properties add an interesting complexity to judging the importance of the Composite: The math quirks identify factors that would be present and significant even if the Composite chart has no value. Do they, therefore, explain why chart seems to work sometimes and not others? Or do they reinforce factors that already exist in the respective natals or in synastry?

Here are the two interesting features:

1. If both people have the same natal aspect, then the Composite will have that aspect. For example, if both people have Mercury conjunct Saturn, then the Composite will have Mercury conjunct Saturn. If one has Mercury-Saturn conjunct and the other Mercury-Saturn opposite, the Composite chart will have Mercury square Saturn. - The orb in the Composite will be the average of the orbs in the natals, which sometimes makes weak natal aspects strong in the Composite. If the Composite is actually valid, this is a way to draw out lesser traits in each person, reflecting the common observation that latent similarities between people become stronger when they are together.

2. If the same planetary interchange (co-aspect) exists both directions between the two charts - that is, if each person's A aspects the other person's B - then the Composite will have those to planets in that aspect. The orb in the Composite will be the average of the orbs of the two co-aspects, which would make weak interchanges stronger in the Composite. The strength of this characteristic may be because the Composite is valid, or it may simply be that the composite shows an aspect that already exists two other ways between their charts.

An example of No. 1: I have Mercury conjunct Saturn, with Mercury 2°24' past Saturn (+2°24'). Anna-Kria has Mercury conjunct Saturn with Mercury 5°06' before Saturn (-5°06'). Average these two orbs and get -1°21': Our Composite indeed has a Mercury-Saturn conjunction with an orb of 1°21'.

Another example of No. 1: I have Mercury conjunct Saturn, with Mercury 2°24' past Saturn (+2°24'). Marion has Mercury square Saturn with Mercury 1°22' before Saturn (-1°22'). Average these two orbs and get +0°31', and average the conjunction and square to get a semi-square: Our Composite has a Mercury-Saturn sesqui-square with an orb of 0°31'.

An example of No. 2: Anna-Kria's Venus 6°18' Capricorn widely squares my Neptune at 1°20' Libra (+4°58'). My Venus at 1°53' Scorpio widely squares her Neptune at 7°37' Leo (-5°44'). Average these two orbs to get 0°23' and, indeed, our Composite has a 0°23' Venus-Neptune square.

Another example of No. 2: Marion's Venus 19°28' Aries squares my Mercury at 17°21' Libra (+2°08'). My Venus at 1°53' Scorpio opposes her Mercury at 27°31' Aries (+4°22'). Average these two orbs to get +3°15' and, indeed, our Composite has a 3°15' Mercury-Venus opposition.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:53 pm
There are two terribly interesting mathematical properties of many Composite chart aspects that arise from Composite planets being midpoints.

These two mathematical properties add an interesting complexity to judging the importance of the Composite: The math quirks identify factors that would be present and significant even if the Composite chart has no value. Do they, therefore, explain why chart seems to work sometimes and not others? Or do they reinforce factors that already exist in the respective natals or in synastry?

Here are the two interesting features:

1. If both people have the same natal aspect, then the Composite will have that aspect. For example, if both people have Mercury conjunct Saturn, then the Composite will have Mercury conjunct Saturn. If one has Mercury-Saturn conjunct and the other Mercury-Saturn opposite, the Composite chart will have Mercury square Saturn. - The orb in the Composite will be the average of the orbs in the natals, which sometimes makes weak natal aspects strong in the Composite. If the Composite is actually valid, this is a way to draw out lesser traits in each person, reflecting the common observation that latent similarities between people become stronger when they are together.

2. If the same planetary interchange (co-aspect) exists both directions between the two charts - that is, if each person's A aspects the other person's B - then the Composite will have those to planets in that aspect. The orb in the Composite will be the average of the orbs of the two co-aspects, which would make weak interchanges stronger in the Composite. The strength of this characteristic may be because the Composite is valid, or it may simply be that the composite shows an aspect that already exists two other ways between their charts.

An example of No. 1: I have Mercury conjunct Saturn, with Mercury 2°24' past Saturn (+2°24'). Anna-Kria has Mercury conjunct Saturn with Mercury 5°06' before Saturn (-5°06'). Average these two orbs and get -1°21': Our Composite indeed has a Mercury-Saturn conjunction with an orb of 1°21'.

Another example of No. 1: I have Mercury conjunct Saturn, with Mercury 2°24' past Saturn (+2°24'). Marion has Mercury square Saturn with Mercury 1°22' before Saturn (-1°22'). Average these two orbs and get +0°31', and average the conjunction and square to get a semi-square: Our Composite has a Mercury-Saturn sesqui-square with an orb of 0°31'.

An example of No. 2: Anna-Kria's Venus 6°18' Capricorn widely squares my Neptune at 1°20' Libra (+4°58'). My Venus at 1°53' Scorpio widely squares her Neptune at 7°37' Leo (-5°44'). Average these two orbs to get 0°23' and, indeed, our Composite has a 0°23' Venus-Neptune square.

Another example of No. 2: Marion's Venus 19°28' Aries squares my Mercury at 17°21' Libra (+2°08'). My Venus at 1°53' Scorpio opposes her Mercury at 27°31' Aries (+4°22'). Average these two orbs to get +3°15' and, indeed, our Composite has a 3°15' Mercury-Venus opposition.
In my looking into these charts with my relationships ans seeing them ebb and flow in cycles I am struck by the long term locking in of certain aspects between the outer planets and how even over time the inner planets get somewhat locked into certain apects.
For example saturn to pluto or saturn to jupiter. Several of my relationships have this ( and both parties have it in progressed charts).
That locking in seems like an undertone to a long term pattern that will be a cornerstone for the relationship swings.
While the movement of the inner planets and luminaries progress through the houses and bring new environment s to the relationship it seems to me that the steady aspects that persist over long durations of time are the ones that have the weight to carry the relationship on in healthy meaningful ways.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:39 am

SteveS wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:29 am
V wrote:
I wish the teachings of the composite charts could be taught to all.
Me too V. When I first purchased Hand’s book ‘Planets In Composite’ back in the late 70s, I think (can’t remember for sure) I read a little of the book and gave up on the book because I immediately realized I couldn’t calculate the composite chart, not enough math/astronomy skills. Then by ancient I was rummaging through some stored boxes of old astrology books a couple of weeks ago, which I culled out many years ago thinking they were no use to me, and found Hand’s book realizing I now had a computer and SF which could calculate a composite chart in seconds. And now more and more I am seeing the value of this book for astrologers worldwide. Hand stated in his book:
When I first encountered composites charts in 1972 I was not impressed. It struck me as a formal mathematical device based on a gimmick that did not reflect any kind of astrological reality. Needless to say, this was an a priori opinion not based on experience, which illustrates the danger of such judgments in astrology. Later I became convinced that the technique was valid…
This is exactly what happened to me when I first started reading Hand’s composite book—I was very skeptical but the more I looked deeper into other couple’s composites which I had known for a long time—the more I realized—geez this is a very important book and chart which appears to have slipped beneath the astrological community radar. Its like I found a valuable gold coin with a metal detector buried deep underground, which is exciting my astrological soul very much with new important astrological discoveries. :)
well Steve you referred me to Hand last year and I followed up on it. I was also put on it by a few things Jim and JSAD talked about. Ive mentioned it in my postings over the past year here and there as the relationship I have with Craig blows me outa the water and I couldnt exactly say why, which ....im a girl who likes to know why.

As a gambler at heart I am very sure you feel like you found a nugget. Its rich indeed😀🍀

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:43 am

Thanks V for posting Jim's important thoughts on the composite chart and your own interesting observations. I really appreciate your input. :)

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Veronica » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:50 am

Apparently I thought what he said was so important that I posted it twice.

It is important and a nifty thing about math and how patterns arise.

Steve I saw your composite of you and your wife.
Is that chart from the original natals of you both?
I am curious where after that length of time you are now, can you provide the progressed chart as well?
As a romantic heart it is nice to see long lived love like yours. You are both blessed.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:48 pm

V wrote:
It is important and a nifty thing about math and how patterns arise.
Exactly V, your statement here touches on a-lot of truth involving the nature of things! When I think about the math involved with a composite chart producing a circle with two people's midpoints placed mathematically perfectly inside this circle, ensouling a third entity of a relationship itself with two human beings, using certain techniques of astrology it reminds of what Faraday said:
There is nothing in the Universe but mathematical points of force.
And then:
Everything in existence is based on exact proportion and perfect relationship. There is no chance in nature, because mathematical principles of the highest order lie at the foundation of all things.


Hand describes the math involved with a composite chart as embodying the principles of potent mathematical vectors involving the science of physics calculated in time & space, which is absolutely mind blowing when peering into a composite chart with techniques of astrology.

V wrote and asked:
Steve I saw your composite of you and your wife.
Is that chart from the original natals of you both?
Yes it is from our original natals (time) and birth locations (space).
My Natal: 9/20/1947, 10:00 AM CST, Albertville, Alabama 34N16, 86W13
My Wife’s Natal: 10/20/1950, 11:07 PM EST, Columbus, Georgia 32N28, 84W59
Current Residence: Springville, Alabama

V wrote:
As a romantic heart it is nice to see long lived love like yours. You are both blessed.
I understand V and thank you, mathematical nature involving time & space truly ‘blessed’ us with our composite chart with the benefics. Our composite chart is the main chart which astrologically explains to my mind WHY our composite relationship has survived so long. We are all encased in a very deep mystery of time and space with symbolic principles of the planets, which astrologers understand better than anyone on the planet. :)

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Veronica » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:29 am

I dont know if you have read John Townley's book Composite Charts, if you havnt you may want to go check the book out on Amazon. It has a fantastic excerpt that gets into the higher math involved.
I was going to cut and paste some points made: ie the idea of the midpoint being the shoreline....and the passing off of energies....
But to do so would most likely infringe on copyright and I would have to post a conciderable portion to express those idea....and I dont have his permission.....
So just thought Id mention it.
Very cool ideas that really bring many the many fields of art and science all together.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:00 am

V wrote:
I dont know if you have read John Townley's book Composite Charts, if you havnt you may want to go check the book out on Amazon. It has a fantastic excerpt that gets into the higher math involved. I was going to cut and paste some points made: ie the idea of the midpoint being the shoreline....and the passing off of energies....But to do so would most likely infringe on copyright and I would have to post a conciderable portion to express those idea....and I dont have his permission.....So just thought Id mention it. Very cool ideas that really bring many the many fields of art and science all together.
V, I have not read Townley’s book but I am definitely going to get around to reading his book. But it certainly is becoming obvious to me we are indeed dealing with some higher universal/mathematical principles with the Composite Chart. Thanks V for this important info.

Here is some further proof for the the Composite Chart as a very important valid Chart for the relationship itself:

Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton began their courtship in 1970, their freshman year at Yale. Their Composite Chart is linked below and there is some remarkable symbolism with transits and Solar Arcs to their Composite Chart midpoints with the Lewinsky Scandal, which came to light in 1998. The Lewinsky Scandal was the single most destructive time for their composite relationship in 1998.

t. Saturn and t. Neptune formed a partile 90 in 1998, with t. Saturn partile cnj Bill/Hillary Composite’s Dsc, partile 180 their composite’s Venus on composite’s Asc, for most of 1998. Also note composite Saturn had Solar Arc to composite Mars in 1998, a planetary combo known for destructive cycles. Also note composite partile Sun-Mercury cnj SA to partile cnj of composite Venus-Asc in 1998 receiving the partile 180 from t. Saturn. Remarkable planetary symbolism for timing the Lewinsky Scandal as a very destructive time for their relationship.

c Asc 04,49 Lib
c Venus 04,41 Lib
t. Saturn (1998) 04,49 Aries

Bill Clinton & Hillary Composite Chart:
https://imgur.com/8qkXzQ7

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:38 am

Jim wrote:
It occurs to me, Steve, that part of what you are seeking here is a way to quickly mentally calculate Solar Arcs in the Composite. This is complicated (compared to a natal) because it doesn't have a single starting point, like a person's birth.
Exactly Jim. What I am doing is endeavoring to find the approximate time for when the relationship begins, and then adding 1 degree/1 year to all the composite’s midpoints and angles for how many years the relationship has been in existence, in order to determine certain symbolic ‘outstanding incidents.’ during the relationship. So far with my spot checking this is proving a most interesting research exercise.

Jim wrote pertaining to the composite of John & Jacqueline Kennedy:
BTW, just mentioning in passing since I don't want to do a hard touch on houses (I still don't think we have any quality evidence houses exist, but do think we should consider how the earliest proponents of Composites used them)... In hindsight, the Kennedy marriage is defined in most people's mind by one event, Jack's murder, and the huge trauma unleashed by that. It's interesting, therefore, that their composite has five planets in the 8th house including both luminaries. Simplest reading of the chart is, "This relation exists primarily for an 8th house purpose." Those planets are also the concentration point of nearly all the important aspects of the chart, including the Sun-Moon conjunction, Pluto anchoring the Saturn-Pluto square, and Venus anchoring the Venus-Uranus square.
Exactly Jim! Hand from his Composite Book says about 8th House:
Traditionally, the 8th house is the house of death, but this meaning is not limited to actual physical death. We refer to the eighth house as the house of major transformations. A strong eighth house will very likely make a considerable impact on both partners, and is more likely to mean a relationship of great significance that will bring about major changes in the lives of the two people, especially at the psychological level.
IMO, using House symbolism for foresight is a very tricky task, but I have found using House symbolism in hindsight is most interesting.

The bold captions are mine--not Jim's.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:00 am

SteveS wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:38 am
Jim wrote:It occurs to me, Steve, that part of what you are seeking here is a way to quickly mentally calculate Solar Arcs in the Composite. This is complicated (compared to a natal) because it doesn't have a single starting point, like a person's birth.
Exactly Jim. What I am doing is endeavoring to find the approximate time for when the relationship begins, and then adding 1 degree/1 year to all the composite’s midpoints and angles for how many years the relationship has been in existence, in order to determine certain symbolic ‘outstanding incidents.’ during the relationship.
To be clear, this is not at all what I was suggesting. My instructions (in t he pst from which you quoted) on how to do this aren't what you're looking for, so ignore them. Nothing I have suggested (or will suggest) has anything to do with picking some arbitrary point in the middle of people's lives as a "zero point" for starting directions.

I'm dropping out of this thread.
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:54 am

Jim wrote:
Nothing I have suggested (or will suggest) has anything to do with picking some arbitrary point in the middle of people's lives as a "zero point" for starting directions.
I clearly understand this Jim. For possible research purposes, I am not picking some arbitrary point in the middle of people’s lives with a composite chart. As a possible “zero point” for starting directions with a composite chart itself, I am picking the beginning point of a relationship to begin Solar Arc directing for a composite chart, seems like a logical point to begin a composite chart itself for directions, imo.

Jim wrote:
I'm dropping out of this thread.
:( I really don’t understand why. If I offended you in any manner, it certainly was not my intention. If I have posted anything which offends you or your astrological philosophy for your forum, please delete my post and I will surly understand. Since I feel I have rubbed you in the wrong manner with my posts in this thread, I will discontinue any further posts/research for composite charts.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:34 pm

Steve, you've moved so far from Hand's composite chart, I think you might rename your technique so people don't get it confused with Hand's techniques or Sidereal techniques.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:47 pm

Jupe wrote:
Steve, you've moved so far from Hand's composite chart, I think you might rename your technique so people don't get it confused with Hand's techniques or Sidereal techniques.
Jupe, I am by recent observations noticing that by app Solar Arcing the midpoints and angles of a composite chart from the approximate beginning of a long-term relationship, using the standard Solar Arc formula 1 year = 1 degree, is pinpointing events/incidents with a composite relationship within a one year time frame. SF will not set-up the composite chart in dynamic mode in order to get a list of Solar Arc hits for a composite chart beginning a long-term relationship for a composite chart. Therefore, there is nothing left to do but mentally closely estimate with the formula 1 degree=1 year for Solar Arching the midpoints and angles of a composite chart for important events/incidents in a long term relationship. All I am observing is Solar Arching the composite chart itself with an app beginning of a long term relationship is timing important incidents in the life of the relationship. I think this could be very important for future young astrologers on this forum, and that is the spirit I am coming from. Jim seems to think this is nonsense but I think I have confused him which I understand. What few observations I have made with Solar Arching the midpoints and angles of a composite chart with an app beginning of a long-term relationship is offering par-excellent time frames for important incidents in a relationship.

Solar Arcing a Composite chart itself is not my technique, it’s only an observation as a possibility for a sound technique for the astrologer. Solar Arching is standard for a natal chart, I ask why not for a Composite Chart itself with an app time for a beginning a long-term relationship? A Natal Chart is a beginning with a birth, why not a Composite Chart for a beginning birth of a long term- relationship with an app beginning of the relationship itself, since a composite chart is the relationship chart. All I am doing as an observation with my limited research, is blending Solar Arching the composite chart itself with an app relationship beginning, with Hand’s book guidelines, as well as blending simple Sidereal Astrology techniques in order to possible offer the astrologer better tools for looking into the future Composite Chart itself.

I am afraid if I renamed Solar Arching a Composite Chart itself would cause more confusion than us just simply accepting the possibility: Simply Solar Arching the composite chart itself with the app beginning of a long lasting relationship offers excellent timing frames within one year for important events/incidents. But, I am not going to make a big deal out of my composite observations, its not that important to me. I was just posting in the spirit of a possible new discovery for us astrologers. I am not trying to invent anything new, only using the standard techniques we have for Solar Arching, Hand's techniques, and Sidereal Astrology techniques, as possible better tools. :)

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:01 pm

I'm not suggesting renaming progressing a chart using Solar Arcs should be renamed, although you seem to have done so (solar arching or arcing)

I'm suggesting you're no longer using Hand's version of Composite Charts, or anyone else's version, so not calling whatever you are using "composite chart" would be less confusing.

Maybe try Steve's couple technique?

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:30 pm

Thanks Jupe for your suggestions. But, the last thing I want to do is possibly offend Jim in any manner. I will discontinue my observations/research with the Composite Chart on this forum. Besides, it was not that important, only a rambling discussion as my research unfolded, things an old person does when he is bored :) Maybe when I have a data base of 2-3 dozens Composite Charts of long-term relationship couples (A, AA rated) will I continue the thread or start a new one.

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