Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Q&A and discussion about Synastry, i.e., relationship analysis through the comparison of two horoscopes.
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:40 pm

Steve, to clarify: No, you haven't offended me, though I found myself at risk of offending you or someone else if I continued discussing the way you are applying Solar Arcs to composites. (I think the discussion of Composites themselves, and of real transits or directions to them, has been quite positive, informative, and engaging.)

Especially considering the harsh transits and SLR the forum's chart has been experiencing recently, I think it smarter for me not to tromp through where I know there are others' toes under my boots.
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:05 pm

Jim wrote:
Steve, to clarify: No, you haven't offended me,
:) Thanks Jim. But after thinking about this topic, I do think maybe I have confused certain issues with my rambling day to day research. I need to try and achieve a solid data base for long-term couples, and reorganize this topic on what I think I am seeing as a possible new technique discovery for the composite chart involving Solar Arcs. I think I will start here with this link to see how many A, AA rated charts I get:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp ... XFR4Hhphe8

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:24 pm

I think you know, but just in case you don't: The technique of Solar Arcs in Composites is well established. For any given point in time, you calculate the Solar Arcs of the two people and make a composite of that.
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:51 pm

SteveS wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:05 pm
I need to try and achieve a solid data base for long-term couples, and reorganize this topic on what I think I am seeing as a possible new technique discovery for the composite chart involving Solar Arcs.
That sounds like a great plan. Looking forward to seeing this.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:29 am

Jim wrote:
(I think the discussion of Composites themselves, and of real transits or directions to them, has been quite positive, informative, and engaging.)
:D Me too Jim, I am very excited about exploring em more. I feel now like Hand in 1975 when he wrote from his Composite Book:
The composite chart provides an almost unlimited field of research. I invite anyone who is interested to try out these techniques and share their results with the rest of the astrological community.
This is what I am trying to do--share my composite research results with the astrological community on this forum. I followed Hand’s work closely from 1977-1988, and never did I see him mention the Composite Chart, leading me to believe Hand never got much feedback from the astrological community, probably because the astrological community did not have computers to compute the math for a composite chart. You and Hand had a heads-up with composite charting explorations because ya'll knew how to compute the math involved. But now we have better tools for research with computers and the internet for calculation & data at our fingertips. :)

Jim wrote:
I think you know, but just in case you don't: The technique of Solar Arcs in Composites is well established. For any given point in time, you calculate the Solar Arcs of the two people and make a composite of that.
No, I did know this until you pointed this out to me a couple of weeks ago. I want to work closely with this technique with research for long relationships with Hollywood couples on the date they married. When you have time, could you go over the SF steps for analyzing the date for my marriage with Solar Arcs in Composites? I was married Jan 23 1971, 3:00 PM. Wife bc: Oct 20 1950, 11:07 PM, Columbus, Georgia.

Jupe wrote:
That sounds like a great plan. Looking forward to seeing this.
:) Thanks Jupe, I will start a new thread for this plan. Instead of looking at malefic signatures in relationships gone bad, we will be able to see benefic signatures with Sidereal Astrology techniques and Hand's/Townley's techniques, also maybe look at other techniques.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:25 am

SteveS wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:29 am
Jim wrote:I think you know, but just in case you don't: The technique of Solar Arcs in Composites is well established. For any given point in time, you calculate the Solar Arcs of the two people and make a composite of that.
No, I did know this until you pointed this out to me a couple of weeks ago. I want to work closely with this technique with research for long relationships with Hollywood couples on the date they married. When you have time, could you go over the SF steps for analyzing the date for my marriage with Solar Arcs in Composites? I was married Jan 23 1971, 3:00 PM. Wife bc: Oct 20 1950, 11:07 PM, Columbus, Georgia.
So you'd like Solar Arcs of the Composite for the events of the marriage? Sure, I'll check that later today.

For the Hollywood couples, please start your new thread in the ?"Synastry Examples of the Famous" sub-forum that I created recently. I made it exactly for this purpose - to build a data base of chart-comparisons of the famous and keep them in a separate place from discussions of our private relatonship charts.
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:00 am

Jim wrote:
For the Hollywood couples, please start your new thread in the ?"Synastry Examples of the Famous" sub-forum that I created recently. I made it exactly for this purpose - to build a data base of chart-comparisons of the famous and keep them in a separate place from discussions of our private relationship charts.
Will do Jim, my friend from Gulf Shores is here for a few days installing two of his old computers as back-ups. Its nice to have those type friends. :) Sometime today I will delete my new thread and re-post in famous people thread per your instructions.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:03 am

SteveS wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:00 am
Sometime today I will delete my new thread and re-post in famous people thread per your instructions.
I already moved it for you :)
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:25 am

SteveS wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:29 am
When you have time, could you go over the SF steps for analyzing the date for my marriage with Solar Arcs in Composites? I was married Jan 23 1971, 3:00 PM. Wife bc: Oct 20 1950, 11:07 PM, Columbus, Georgia.
Steve, here is the Solar Arc Composite for you and your wife for date of marriage. Notice that the important Sun-Venus conjunction is exactly conjoined by directed Ascendant.

Image
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Arena » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:30 am

It is weird (to me) to witness the oppressive communication - but maybe just astrologically natural to those in question. And hence also natural to me to address it. And I don't do that to "offend" anyone since taking offence in just simple exchange of words and ideas would be silly.

Just want to say that in astrology, since we know that very little has actually been proven to any extent, every mind should keep itself open to explore ideas, whether old or new. We are all interested in astrology, even though we may differ in perspectives and approaches. Jim has this idea that the only way to look at SA of a composite is to first SA each individuals chart and then put them together as the two SA charts into a new composite. This is his view and his perspective which may be shared with other people and it may be right and it may be wrong. We don't know. Other people, such as myself and Steve, have wanted to explore the possibility to treat the composite chart as a literal "relationship chart". Hence, we were looking at the composite as "starting" from a certain point in time, namely the time of courtship/relationship start and then explore whether if treated as a start point the solar arcs from that point would show any highlights or significant events within that relationship. With just a couple of examples it seems like it does, that might just be a coincidence - none of us know that yet. The key here is to be open and willing to explore and compare. IMO, we need to compare those two methods to see which one gives more reliable results. But the rule of approach should always be to only use known birth times - not charts like Hillary Clinton that does not have a known birth time.

When we disagree with people or we have a different perspective, rather than putting them down, disrespecting them and their exploration, it is imo always a better method to listen to their views and contemplate on them... but I didn't learn that until my thirties - up until then I just wanted to fight for my view. I've grown since then. IMO a much better approach is to put forward our rational for our perspective and put forward examples to compare with the other. You may agree or disagree, as you wish.

When it comes down to a compulsive need to tell others that their views or what they are exploring does not belong in this or that thread or in this forum, it is imo a very rigid stance and only serves to show people that this is not a forum for exploring ideas. Even though in some people's view such explorations do indeed have a place in discussion both here and elsewhere, it resonates, it rings a note, it sparks interest, it simply feels right to explore. Rigid stance never leads to new inventions, new discoveries, changing the world etc. Only an open and creative stance can do that. You may agree or disagree, as you wish.

Lastly I just want to stress that I have no desire to fight you at all. I simply wanted to point out that this idea that is being explored is no worse than the other idea to solar arc each individual and then putting together a new composite chart. It is just different. It doesn't need a name, it doesn't need anything other than just being explored because both ideas are worth exploring.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:40 pm

Arena, Jim posted on https://www.solunars.org years ago,
I have created this site for three primary purposes:

1) To provide a place for education concerning Sidereal astrology.
2) To provide a forum for the intelligent and progressive discussion of Sidereal astrology.
3) To provide (either on this main site, or in the companion forum) a convenient place to post fragments of my own writings — in most cases, works in progress — as interpretive guides.
Jim has said clearly elsewhere, he wants this forum to be a place people who are new to Sidereal Astrology to come to learn what Sidereal Astrology is and how to use it. He's said he's concerned people may instead pick up some of the other ideas being expressed and think "That's what Sidereal Astrology is." when that isn't at all what it is, and feels he has to spend his time to follow up and say, no that isn't Sidereal Astrology.

While I understand you want a wide-ranging discussion with no rules, this is the wrong place for that. This is a defined place with a specific purpose. People who don't like that are free to find or create the kind of place they prefer. But it's not your place (or mine) to change this place into something other than what Jim wants it to be.

It's not "oppressive" to ask people to stay on topic and not to take techniques that are well known and established and have had several books written about them and use the same name for an entirely different technique. We have to be able to talk to each other and to people outside this forum. That means using the common terminology and the specific techniques it refers to.

It's not "rigid" to tell someone who wants to come here and use Mesopotamian names for the constellations that has nothing to do with Sidereal Astrology.

It's not "disrespectful" to ask people to adhere to the purpose of this forum and the reason it exists. Even if they want a different kind of forum but can't find it.

BTW: Did you notice the new sub-forum yet?
Home -> Discussion -> Experimental, Speculative, Exploring
Does that help?

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:06 am

John Townley has written an undated book, ‘Composite Charts’, from his first book in 1973 on the composite chart. The first printing of ‘Composite Charts’ was in 2000. Robert Hand writes the Foreword for Townley’s new book. Both Hand and Townley equally use the standard Synastry Chart and the Composite Chart for relationship analysis, with Townley always recommending using the Synastry Chart first when new relationships are beginning, paying closer attention to conjunctions in Synastry Charts. But Townley recommends using the Composite Chart when the potential for long lasting relationships occur, particularly for marriage. After 25 years, both Townley and Hand offer their updated opinions for the Composite Chart, with Townley offering his take on “what works, what does not work, what is useful, and what is not.”

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Arena » Wed May 01, 2019 2:26 am

JSAD, let's just agree to disagree. Please do not tell me or others what is opressive and rigid, we have our own perspectives on that and they differ.
2) To provide a forum for the intelligent and progressive discussion of Sidereal astrology.
Composites are used in both tropical and sidereal astrology and therefore should be ok to discuss them in this forum.

It is both intelligent and progressive to contemplate on possible methods of reading into solar arcs for composite charts. And when discussing possible methods of doing the solar arcs, there is no need to name the different techniques. Solar arcs as such are "well known and established" but they can be used in different ways. Even though someone has written books about a subject it does not mean that is the ultimate, set in stone, non-changing way to do things. Or what? Do we maybe live on a flat Earth?

BTW, it's great to have a sub-forum for explorative minds/approaches.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Wed May 01, 2019 5:09 am

Arena wrote:
It is both intelligent and progressive to contemplate on possible methods of reading into solar arcs for composite charts. And when discussing possible methods of doing the solar arcs, there is no need to name the different techniques. Solar arcs as such are "well known and established" but they can be used in different ways.
I agree Arena. I am trying to find out if Townley is still active in the astrological community and contact him to send him several of my example composite charts using the app 1 degree per 1 year for arcing the midpoints in a composite chart. Also to see if Townley knows of a astro program which will allow to set-up the composite chart in dynamic mode so I can do more precise research work with arcing the midpoints in a composite. In the meantime, I am finding more solid examples where arching the midpoints of a composite is timing par-excellent symbolism for events in the life of a relationship-composite chart. Here is a composite example for a Mother & her troubled Son who committed suicide on Aug 18 2015.

Mother (Angelia): March 2 1959, 8:40 AM CST, Mobile, Alabama (AA birth time.)
Son (Hayden): Feb 16 1996, 5:15 PM CST, Fairhope, Alabama (AA birth time)

Composite Chart:
https://imgur.com/cx0gVTG

The relationship of the Mother and her Son began with the birth of her son Feb 16, 1996, and counting the years to suicide and end of their composite relationship on Aug 18 2015 is 19 ½ years, which Solar Arcs composite Saturn to a partile cnj of composite Sun. Townley says composite Sun and it’s aspects speaks a-lot about the “life” of the relationship. Also note composite Sun is partile semisquare composite Mars adding the Solar Arc combo of SA Saturn partile semisquare composite Mars, a destructive planetary combo.

I worked very closely with the Mother and her mate my best friend pertaining to this troubled son. In the last 4 years of the Son’s life (Teen-Age years), there was a huge fear with the Mother and Step father (my friend) their Son would commit suicide. I even contacted another astrologer who worked a lot with parents who were shepherding troubled children, and this astrologer told me Mars-Pluto was the number one natal signature for suicides with troubled children. Note in the Son’s Natal his angular Mars-Pluto signature. Note in the composite the tight Mars-Pluto 180, with Pluto in the 5th house of Children, the 5th-11th houses in this composite were afflicted with the Mars-Pluto 180. Also note with the Mother's Natal their was a direct midpoint of Mars/Pluto = MC (1,05), which Hand would rate as the most potent midpoint in her Natal.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Arena » Wed May 01, 2019 5:43 am

Thank you very much for this example Steve. Interesting.
IF there is anything to this method of SA in the composite, check out also the theme happening around 10 yrs into this composite when Pluto comes to Uranus and Neptune comes to the DSC. Perhaps ask the mother if anything happened when the boy was around 10 yrs of age.

The Mars-Pluto signature is indeed harsh and I believe it is sometimes connected to sexual abuse or hidden violence.

(My daughter has a Mars-Pluto-Mer tight conjunction and it scares me - but I keep thinking to myself that since it has Mer involved it will have a Mer theme rather than a Martian sexual abuse theme.)

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Wed May 01, 2019 7:57 am

Arena wrote:
The Mars-Pluto signature is indeed harsh and I believe it is sometimes connected to sexual abuse or hidden violence.
When the Son was 15 years old he hit a school mate (bully) over the head with a brick, seriously injuring the bully. The Son was expelled permanently from school.

Arena wrote:
(My daughter has a Mars-Pluto-Mer tight conjunction and it scares me - but I keep thinking to myself that since it has Mer involved it will have a Mer theme rather than a Martian sexual abuse theme.)
I understand your concern Arena and agree with you on the Mercury blend. Mars-Pluto can manifest with very positive energies but still this combo is always pause for concern. As long as you see no negative Mars-Pluto manifesting with her life so far, then I would strongly think this will not become a problematic situation in the life of your daughter.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Arena » Wed May 01, 2019 8:32 am

Well, maybe that bully actually deserved some answering back, although that attack may have been a bit too much. Perhaps that bully had seriously injured that boy's soul and well-being. Bullying can cause such horrible soul injuries and scars for life.

Luckily, I have not seen any negative manifestations of Mars-Pluto in my daughter's life, but I can see a potential disruptive theme in that conjunction when it is activated. For. ex. that solar arced conjunction was square her n. Moon when we moved countries three years ago. Her solar arc Uranus is now partile square that conj and tr. Uranus is opposing it, so again we have a kind of disruptive theme (something is about to happen) ... and it will be followed by Jupiter squaring it now in the next couple of years and then followed by her SA Sun conjunct it. So I guess that this is a time in her life that this conjunction is highlighted. So far I see this as a period of her needing to feel her own independence while at the same time having her life turned "upside down" by moving countries, learning a new language and meeting a whole new world of people....it may turn out to signal radical transformation in her life when it's all over within a couple of years. That is most likely how she will look at it when she is all grown up.

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Angelia & Hayden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 01, 2019 8:34 am

Steve,

Mars-Pluto was also one of the aspects that showed most strongly in bradley's published suicide study. Hayden has a few other suicide-leaning natal aspects, although the stronger impression I get from the chart is that he would tend to act out, take action, strike against others, etc. rather than strike against himself. The acutely background Moon with its sign and aspects seems to be the main differenting factor. It's insightful that you pick the mother-son relationship as a focus for looking at this because, within him, an emotional absence or alienation with respect to his mother is the hardest challenge in the chart. (Not that he'd have been an easy kid to raise.)

Conventional astrological timing for his suicide is not typical. The usual tarnsits and progressions that are hallmarks of most such cases aren't there. He seems to have come through a period of heavy struggle and then decided to strike out aggressively to hurt others Istill the basic theme of the birth chart, made stronger by several things such as his progressed Sun-Mars conjunction), However, I'm not comfortable "reducing" the event to something that simple after spending only a few minutes with the charts.

His final SSR was rough, and (besides the closely setting Pluto) does have solar Moon exactly conjunct natal Neptune.

You don't give enough about the mother-son relationship for me to assess the Composite itself, although the 09' Moon-Venus square is a stand-out, suggesting lot of love between the two; and the Mars-Pluto stands out,

Taking, then, the Solar Arcs of the Composite itself - the real Composite solar arcs, not measured from his birthv - we find an acute crisis the year of the suicide, starting with directed Mars exactly conjunct Composite MC. Here are the partile aspects of the compsotie Solar Arcs to the Composite ("natal") placements for the date of suicide. They are quite impressive!

d Mars sq. c Jupiter 01'
d Pluto ssq. c Uranus 16'
d Sun sq. c Neptune 18'
d Saturn ssq. c Mercury 26'
d Mars conj. c MC 46'
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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Wed May 01, 2019 9:36 am

Jim wrote:
You don't give enough about the mother-son relationship for me to assess the Composite itself, although the 09' Moon-Venus square is a stand-out, suggesting lot of love between the two; and the Mars-Pluto stands out,
Yes, there was a-lot of love between Mother & Son until teen-age years. She raised the child as a single working Mother for survival. When the Son reached teenage years the problematic years began. He started doing lots of drugs! He and his Mother started to fight a-lot with the Son threatening his Mother’s life—twice with a knife to her throat. He once came in the house with shotgun (stolen) and put it to my friend’s head. It was terrible—had to call police several times and once institutionalizing the son for weeks. The worst of the worst of his natal Mars-Pluto 90 reared its ugly side big time! The parents tried everything to help the Son, but I think the drugs took control! Note the Moon-Neptune cnj—with the drugs—he became highly delusional.

The Mother and my friend were at there wits end and consulted me as an astrologer, and I put them in touch with an astrologer who had tons of experience working with parents with problematic teenagers. This astrologer told the parents to do their best and get the kid into some kind of therapy program which they did—but it failed.

Jim wrote:
Taking, then, the Solar Arcs of the Composite itself - the real Composite solar arcs, not measured from his birthv - we find an acute crisis the year of the suicide, starting with directed Mars exactly conjunct Composite MC. Here are the partile aspects of the compsotie Solar Arcs to the Composite ("natal") placements for the date of suicide. They are quite impressive!
d Mars sq. c Jupiter 01'
d Pluto ssq. c Uranus 16'
d Sun sq. c Neptune 18'
d Saturn ssq. c Mercury 26'
d Mars conj. c MC 46'

Excellent observation Jim, particularly the d Mars conj. c MC 46' ---lots of raw anger in the relationship the last few weeks of his life. I feared for the life of the parents, and I believe if they had not moved the kid into his own apartment keeping their doors locked at all times-- the kid would have taken their lives first. It was the most sickening thing I have ever seen in my life!

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Arena » Wed May 01, 2019 10:23 am

Just reposting my earlier findings to compare the two methods.

Because of the way SF does these charts it is not an easy thing to try and compare these two methods, although I think it is necessary. Perhaps they are both equally valid - at least we've already seen some interesting examples of simply doing the SA movement from the start time of the relationship.
If I do the same to my composite as I did with yours, Steve, just moving the angles by primary motion I do see the milestones of those angles to the planets.

This means approximate timings of:
about 8 yrs into our relationship the downer of Saturn was the first real trouble we had in 2015 (we started in March 2007) when suddenly things changed so much after having had our first years of love, connection, making our home renovations, bringing two children into the world and then suddenly me going into a strange period - not wanting to marry him when he asked, but went to the opposite extreme of almost separating at the time. The AC is one degree off a direct hit for that.

If I regress the AC to Venus it is almost 10°, and it was just 3 months short of our 10 yrs anniversary that we got engaged in Tenerife, Christmas 2016.

Not sure what to make of the IC to Mars, that is 9° and we did actually move to Edinburgh when we had been together 9 years, or in summer 2016. But in other ways I am not sure of the Mars energy around that time since it was actually just a time of study... so would fit with regressing the IC to meet Mercury - but that seems too far off strangely since we both went back to Uni, it would have been very descriptive of that year. But this chart seems to give us Mercury influence this year, or 12 yrs into our relationship. This would also mean that next year is REALLY shaky with the IC moving to shattering Pluto which could mean a new start, moving homes or possibly a separation or a separative heavy period. IF the relationship survives that Pluto touch ... then the next touch will be the AC to the Sun in 7 yrs time.

IF I compare and use a slightly earlier bt for myself, but same for his... then the AC is on the direct midpoint between Ven & Sat, meaning approx 8 Degrees from both - which would fit with year 2015 when he actually proposed and wanted to get married and I said no with a period of downfall in the relationship. Very fitting.
The earlier bt would also fit with the regr IC hitting Mercury when we moved to Edinburgh and both studied our first year here ...this would be followed by the IC touching Mars about 11 yrs into the relationship... which is essentially the last year (full of tensions and fighting - our children have never seen this kind of aggression from their father before) ... and this would mean the Pluto separative period would be slightly later or in about 2-3 yrs from now. Let's see if we survive :)

SF portrays these charts strangely when viewed in a biwheel. But this is what I see if I simply do two solar arc charts for the two individual charts and then put them together into a composite and then I look at the two composite charts in a biwheel.

SA comp Moon is now 1,24°separating orb from square comp Uranus and within 3° from comp ASC (I guess this is maybe too big an orb to show yet).
SA comp Sun is 1,15° from comp Pluto.
SA comp Mars is partile sq comp Saturn.
SA comp Venus is 0,03° square comp Neptune.
SA comp Mer is partile trine comp Moon.
SA comp Saturn is 0,05° conjunct comp IC.
SA comp MC has just moved past the comp Uranus.
SA comp Uranus is partile trine comp Saturn.

And to also note this method of solar arcing our individual charts and then putting them together into one composite for a certain date - this is what was showing up on 24.12.2016 when we got engaged I see that
SA comp Moon partile conj comp IC and partile (0,05°) square comp Jupe which is partile conj comp WP.
SA comp Sun 1,04° separating from square comp ASC.
SA comp Venus partile sextile comp Jup.
SA comp MC 1,14°separating conj comp Venus.

So in my own case those methods both seem to be valid.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Wed May 01, 2019 12:54 pm

Arena wrote:
So in my own case those methods both seem to be valid.
Yes. In my case, 48 years of my beginning relationship with wife. Whenever I check any type of astrological technique, I always start with wife and my charts. Since I clearly saw solid SA hits with arching the midpoints of our composite for major events in the relationship, I went on to other (few) long term composite relationships in my files and got good solid hits for SAing the midpoints of a composite for event timing purposes. This intrigues me very much looking at the composite as a possible valid stand alone chart-no different from a Natal Chart. What I need for further substantial research is a lot of AA charts/composites for long term relationships with major relationship events, a difficult task. I wish I could contact Townley by phone since he originated Composite Charting research in the USA.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by Veronica » Wed May 01, 2019 3:50 pm

It seems to me that you are focusing on relationships that people have made by choice, personal and business with very few family relationships.
Patents and children, siblings, aunts and uncles and cousins and grandparents are huge relationships in a persons life and have lots of events, maybe not benchmark events like we typically think like a wedding or first time meeting or an engagement but they have major turning points and points of growth or decay.
You may be able to gather more data if you look into family charts.
I know in looking at my 5 siblings and parents and grandparents and nieces and nephews has greatly stretched my understand of astrology and how it does mirror the nature of relationships which IMO is the fabric of the universe itself.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Thu May 02, 2019 6:10 am

V wrote:
It seems to me that you are focusing on relationships that people have made by choice, personal and business with very few family relationships.
Patents and children, siblings, aunts and uncles and cousins and grandparents are huge relationships in a persons life and have lots of events, maybe not benchmark events like we typically think like a wedding or first time meeting or an engagement but they have major turning points and points of growth or decay.
You may be able to gather more data if you look into family charts.
I know in looking at my 5 siblings and parents and grandparents and nieces and nephews has greatly stretched my understand of astrology and how it does mirror the nature of relationships which IMO is the fabric of the universe itself.
Excellent points V, there are all kinds of relationships, all important, especially the relationships between siblings and the mother. A mother who is an astrologer sits in a unique position viewing relationship charts with their children and other family members. Thanks for this input.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Sat May 04, 2019 8:33 am

Robert Hand was the first USA astrologer to write (1975) a definitive book on the Composite Chart. John Townley was the first USA astrologer who wrote (1973) an introductory book on the Composite Chart. In 2000 John Townley wrote another definitive book on the Composite Chart, Robert Hand writing the Foreword. Since Robert Hand had 25 years from his first Composite Book to study/ponder Composite Charting, I though I would offer some more of Hand’s thoughts about relationships charts. Hand writes from the Foreword in Townley’s 2000 book on Composite Charts:
One must evaluate the synastry and the composite chart of the relationship. These two techniques I rate about equally important and I would hesitate to give either priority over the other. However, the following rule of thumb might be used, but only as a “rule of thumb.” I think that the synastry between two charts describe more of how two people affect each other, and how they make each other feel. I believe the composite chart describes more accurately how the relationship is likely to fare, although cannot exclude synastry from that consideration, either.
Now, after reading both Hand’s (1973) and Townley’s book (2000) on composite charting techniques, I will later offer some of my opinions about the possible analysis of the composite chart using some of the main techniques of Sidereal Astrology, based on my limited experience of composite charts with my files of AA Natal’s.

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Re: Composite Charts using Natal Factors of Two People calculating their Composite Midpoints.

Post by SteveS » Sun May 05, 2019 11:00 am

Princess Diana: July 1 1961, 7:45 PM, Sandringham, England. A rated
Prince Charles: Nov 14 1948, 9:14 PM, London, England. A rated

Except for Jupiter culminating in this composite chart, probably symbolizing the Royal Marriage/Relationship, we see a terribly afflicted Composite for Mars strife and conflict in their composite relationship.

Mars partile cnj Neptune in the 7th House of Spousal Relationships is plenty to describe a tormenting relationship/marriage for both Charles & Diana. Mars and Neptune partile 90 Uranus; Mars partile 60 Pluto. These 3 partile Mars aspects alone, which is par-excellent symbolism using main guidelines with Sidereal Astrology for a relationship torn by the strife of Mars.

Princess Di/Prince Charles Composite:
https://imgur.com/B877IBl

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