Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

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Arena
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Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

Post by Arena » Tue May 16, 2017 11:46 am

Feb 13, 2017
I know I have talked about financial crisis before and I think I might do a better and more extensive review on the financial crisis later.

But I am also interested to know your opinions from an astrological point of view, when would you think an "era" of people uniting financially would be possible? Like forming credit unions and such things happening.

If we look to the outer planets in astrology we see that the slow movers are changing signs soon.
Sidereally speaking Jupiter is about to move into Libra, Uranus into Aries and Saturn into Sagittarius.

When looking at sidereal astrology and seeing Jupiter in Virgo now, it should actually be the detriment of Jupiter - but yet we do not see a financial crisis yet and neither with tropical look. Virgo might actually not be the detriment of Jupiter at all, since maybe, just maybe, Pisces is not a Jupiter sign, but rather a Neptune sign. Looking at Jupiter when we did have financial crisis starting in October 2008 when the banks house of cards collapsed, we had Jupiter in it's own sign Sagi by sidereal measures. BUT interestingly at that time if we look at tropical we had Jupiter coming to the opposite degree of it's exaltation, so to it's degree of fall in Capricorn (sign of Saturn that is the planet of austerity). Bankers actually knew things were turning down at the beginning of the year 2008 when Jupiter had just moved into Capricorn (tropically).
In later half of 1929 Jupiter was moving through Gemini tropically, it's true sign of detriment - while Saturn was on the opposite side moving through Sagi. Neptune just moved into it's sign of detriment, Virgo. From that picture the dignities of the planets actually seem to fit better into the tropical framework - I don't know why, but it seems that way.

Although with the financial crisis I do believe there are more factors than only Jupiter to look at, Pluto is also big money and power. Neptune is about deception that is needed for the upkeep of the financial system as we know it.
Some economists are warning of a new crisis coming up. If we just take a look at the tropical framework (since that fits with the two big financial crisis) on those planets we see that Saturn is indeed in Sagi now, like it was 1929, Jupiter is in Libra so it should be ok and Neptune is in it's own sign Pisces so it should be at the top of deception :) IF I were to look only at this tropical framework for debility and fall of planets and predict when we will see the beginning of next crisis it will be in the end of 2019 when Jupiter enters Capricorn and the big hit being in 2020 when Jupiter hits it's degree of fall in tropical Capricorn. We do also see downturns in the economy it seems when Jupiter conjoins Saturn like in July 1981.

To test the fall of Jupiter in terms of planetary dignities we would also have to ask the question "do we see economic recessions happen every time Jupiter hits it's degree of fall"? I would also be interested to know positions of Pluto, Neptune and Saturn when we see recessions.

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Re: Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

Post by Arena » Tue May 16, 2017 11:47 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Arena wrote:To test the fall of Jupiter in terms of planetary dignities we would also have to ask the question "do we see economic recessions happen every time Jupiter hits it's degree of fall"? I would also be interested to know positions of Pluto, Neptune and Saturn when we see recessions.
I'm not sure that's a fair test of the Fall thesis, but I agree it would be worthy to look at it. (I wrote longer on that before, so no need to repeat.)

We've seen a number of other mundane events where key planets or angles in Jupiter's fall degree marked distinctly un-Jupiter events, but there are too few of these to say it proves anything.

For key financial crises in U.S. history (and some non-U.S.), there is a whole chapter on the subject in Sidereal Mundane Astrology. You can pull dates from there, and I'll itemize what you requested below.

On your original question, I don't have a clear opinion. In theory, Uranus in Aries could shake up the entire monetary system if anything is going to. Saturn now joining Pluto in Sagittarius is likely to make things worse for three years in the specific sense of intensifying economic inequity.

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Re: Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

Post by Arena » Tue May 16, 2017 11:47 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:For each event below, signs are listed in the sequence of Pluto, Neptune, Uranus, Saturn at the time of the event. (I do it this way to avoid a lot of redundant typing and to make it compact.)

Panic of 1819
Pisces Sagittarius Scorpio Aquarius

Panic of 1837
Pisces Capricorn Aquarius Libra

Panic of 1857
Aries Aquarius Taurus Cancer

Panic of 1873 (Vienna)
and Panic of 1873 (USA)
Aries Aries Cancer Capricorn

Panic of 1893
Taurus Taurus Libra Virgo

Panic of 1907
Gemini Gemini Sagittarius Aquarius

1929 Wall Street Crash
Gemini Cancer Pisces Sagittarius

1931 Berlin Bank-run Panic
Gemini Leo Pisces Sagittarius

1983 Israel Bank Stock Crisis
Libra Sagittarius Scorpio Libra

1987 Stock Market Crash
Libra Sagittarius Scorpio Scorpio

2008 Subprime Mortgage Crisis
Sagittarius Capricorn Aquarius Leo

2015 Greek Debt Default
Sagittarius Aquarius Pisces Scorpio

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Re: Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

Post by Arena » Tue May 16, 2017 11:47 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:As long as I have al the charts open, I ight as well look at whether exaltation or fall degrees (let's say, plus or minus a degree) have any planets at the times of these events. (This is a very few degrees of the zodiac, so we shouldn't expect many.)

Panic of 1837
Mars 28°00' Cancer (its own fall)
Saturn 21°55' Libra (its own hypsoma)
Neptune 15°46' Capricorn (stationary @ Jupiter's fall)

Panic of 1957
Mars 15°30' Cancer (Jupiter's hypsoma)

Panic of 1873 (Vienna)
Jupiter 29°14' Cancer (@ Mars' fall)
Venus 19°59' Aries (@ Sun's hypsoma)

Panic of 1873 (USA)
Uranus 15°16' Cancer (@ Jupiter's hypsoma)

Panic of 1907
Mars 13°15' Capricorn (@ Jupiter fall)

1983 Israel Bank Stock Crisis
Sun 14°08' Virgo (@ Mercury's hypsoma)

1987 Stock Market Crash
Mercury 18°03' Libra (@ Sun's fall)

2008 Subprime Mortgage Crisis
Neptune 27°12' Capricorn (@ Mars' hypsoma)

2015 Greek Debt Default
Uranus 25°17' Pisces (@ Venus' hypsoma)
Jupiter 26°35' Cancer (@ Mars' fall)

The number of these is approximately what chance would allow, so if there is any distinction it would have to be qualitative, not quantitative.

Regarding qualitative distinction, on a simple "good vs. bad," of these 13 hits, 10 them fit at least one of these descriptions:

1. either the degree or the planet hitting it (or both) is a malefic (Mars, Saturn, Neptune)
2, a Jupiter or Venus degree is crossed by Uranus
3. Mars is at its own fall

I'm not saying these mean anything for sure, but I find it interesting that, of 13 hits, we have Mars on its own hypsoma; Saturn on its own hypsoma; Mars, Jupiter, or Neptune on Mars' fall; Mars and Uranus on Jupiter's hypsoma; Mars and Neptune on Jupiter's fall. If there is anything to this, it may give us clues how to read these degrees.

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Re: Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

Post by Arena » Tue May 16, 2017 11:48 am

Just want to look into this a bit further, but I want to focus on when we see the world economy go down.
I've already mentioned 1929 and 2008 above, but we also had a downturn in early 2000's - 2000-2001.
That recession started around the time when Jupiter conjoined Saturn in 2000 and goes on into 2001 when Jupiter is moving through Gemini tropically, it's sign of detriment. The economy recovers when Jupiter enters Cancer in late 2001 and into 2002.

We do not see this same pattern in 1990-1991 recession, however we see Jupiter opposite Saturn at that time and 1981 downturn we see Jupiter-Saturn conjunction for many months in tropical Libra, but sidereal Virgo. 1973 world GDP fall happens when Jup moves through Capricorn and Aqua tropically or mostly in Capricorn sidereally.

Adding a few more with the biggest gdp decline from this list for the US:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/ec ... ssions.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... ted_States

The Roosevelt Recession: (May 1937 - June 1938)
Jupiter in tropical Capricorn and Aquarius, but mostly in Capricorn sidereally.
Saturn in tropical and sidereal Pisces except for latter part would be tropical Aries.

The Union Recession: (February 1945 - October 1945)
Jupiter moving through tropical Virgo most of that time moving into Libra at the end of the period, but Virgo and Leo forth and back sidereally
Saturn in tropical Cancer (Jupiter's exaltation) and sidereal Gemini.

The Eisenhower Recession: (August 1957 - April 1958)
Jupiter through tropical Libra most of that time while Saturn in tropical Sagi. Sidereal Virgo first months and the sidereal Libra from jan 58 while Saturn in Scorpio.

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Re: Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

Post by Arena » Tue May 16, 2017 11:48 am

Thanks Jim for joining in on this one.
I want to look into this a bit more. But since I see many times that Jupiter is actually moving through it's tropical signs of detriment or fall during financial crisis and the relationship to Saturn. There seems to be a possible pattern there.

I don't think we can isolate recessions in only one country in the world if we want to look at global trends of the economy and see if planetary movements through the signs are showing us a pattern. The USA is only one of many countries in the world and there are some major players that also have had their share of recessions. Local recessions could have to do more with local mundane charts.

We should focus on global economic recessions only for that kind of work imo.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY. ... view=chart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_recession
The International Monetary Fund defines a global recession as "a decline in annual per‑capita real World GDP (purchasing power parity weighted), backed up by a decline or worsening for one or more of the seven other global macroeconomic indicators: Industrial production, trade, capital flows, oil consumption, unemployment rate, per‑capita investment, and per‑capita consumption"... According to this definition, since World War II there were only four global recessions (in 1975, 1982, 1991 and 2009), all of them only lasting a year
Before April 2009, the IMF argued that a global annual real GDP growth rate of 3.0 percent or less was "equivalent to a global recession".[3][4] By this measure, there were six global recessions since 1970: 1974–75,[5] 1980–83,[5] 1990–93,[6] 1998,[6] 2001–02,[6] and 2008–09.[7]

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Re: Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

Post by Arena » Tue May 16, 2017 11:48 am

Let's use the first definition of global economic recession and see what is happening in astrology by sidereal and tropical view on the zodiac.
I will focus on Jupiter and Saturn in this one. I would think they are the main catalyst of change in the economy while the other two may be of some effect.
IF Pluto belongs to Aries, it's detriment is in Libra.
IF Neptune belongs to Pisces, it's detriment is Virgo.
But those planets stay such a long time in the signs, that it seems to not be a catalyst, but it could be a part of the whole in terms of aspects, not sure.
We must note that those planets are indeed moving through those signs of detriment during some of these recessions.

1975 crisis started in mid 1973 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%8 ... ession.jpg
S: mid 73 Jup is at it's degree of fall in Capricorn, opp exaltation degree. Saturn is entering Gemini.
T: Jup in Aq and Pisces, Saturn in Gemini and Cancer (hits and goes back and forth around Jup exaltation around the bottom of crisis).

1982 started mid year 1981 and lasted until Nov 1982
S: mid yr 81 Jup+Sat conjoin in sidereal Virgo. Jupiter then moves into Libra but Saturn is at the end of Virgo and conjoins Pluto at early Libra.
T: Jup-Sat conj happens in early Libra, Saturn stays in Libra (it's sign of exaltation) for most of the recession while Jup moves into Scorpio.

1991 was from mid 1990-mid1991
S: Jup in Gemini (detriment) opp Saturn and Nep in Sagi (Jup-Nep/Mars T square). Jup moves into Cancer (still in recession though) and Saturn into Capricorn as they oppose in the sky.
T: Jup at Cancer exaltation mid 90 and moves into Leo while Saturn is at home in Capricorn.

2009 starts with the banks falling in Oct 2008 when Jup-Saturn make a trine in the sky and hardship is felt during 2009 and into 2010
S: Jup in Sagi, Saturn in Leo, Jup moves into Capricorn and Aq during hardship and Saturn moves into Virgo.
T: Jup at it's degree of fall when banks fall while Saturn in Virgo at Jup or possibly Neptune detriment.

This is to me interesting from both the sidereal and tropical perspective and planetary dignities and debilities.

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Re: Financial crisis and financial people unite era?

Post by AdaminDC » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:57 pm

It's 2020 and I just found this... it's pretty crazy just how right you were about the Jupiter in Capricorn hitting its fall. Covid-19 started at the end of 2019 and 2020 has seen the World Economy undone by the resulting pandemic. Jupiter hit it's fall went forward, and retrograded back to click its' heals on its fall again. Well done!! It's October 14, 2020 and Jupiter and Saturn will line up December 15-17th at the end of Tropical Capricorn during the most contentious and dangerous election in our history :shock: .

I guess I should look at my ephemeris and put events in my google calendar a decade from now.

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