A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:38 pm

SteveS wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:30 pm
There has only been one month in the entire history of this NYSE Chart that an Age Harmonic (AH) Moon lined-up with a partile 0 or 180 aspect with an AH Saturn.
I found 16 times it has occurred (and the exact hit wasn't 10/29 but the aftermath, though it was in orb 10/29).

Sep 11 1807
Jun 15 1820
Apr 1 1835
Nov 13 1847
Aug 27 1862
Mar 30 1875
Nov 25 1889
Aug 3 1902
Jan 22 1917
Nov 13 1929
Mar 22 1944
Jan 26 1957
Jun 18 1971
Mar 18 1984
Oct 12 1998
May 16 2011
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:55 am

Jim, here is what I originally posted:
AH Moon for the NYSE will exactly conjunct NYSE ASC once a month each year and 180 NYSE ASC once a month each year, but AH Saturn only exactly conjuncts or 180 NYSE ASC every 40 years beginning in 1810. Here are those dates:
June 30 1810
April 5 1850
Jan 9 1890
*October 16 1929
July 22 1969
April 27 2009
Jim, going back over my notes I took when using the “Dynamic Report” in Solarfire for this AH analysis, I find this:
AH Saturn cnj or 180 (exact) Natal NYSE ASC in its entire history:
June 30 1810
April 5 1850
Jan 9 1890
Oct 16 1929
July 22 1969
April 27 2009
Also in my notes I find the months for each of the above years when AH Moon exact cnj or 180 NYSE ASC:
1810: AH Moon cnj & 180 April & Oct
1850: AH Moon cnj & 180 Feb & Aug
1890: AH Moon cnj & 180 June & Dec
*1929: AH Moon cnj Oct
(to be more specific for the exact day in Oct 1929, I am now looking at SF list and this is the data: Mo cnj AS AH-NA Oct 29 07:42:12 AM EST 137.499 22 Gem 00)
1969: AH Moon cnj & 180 Mar & Sept
2009: AH Moon cnj & 180 Jan & July
The differences we are getting could be different versions of SF we are using, I don’t know for sure. I went back and double checked my original research and stand by my original post. I hope this post here may help clear-up things, but it’s no big deal to me.

Another look: AH Chart for 7:42:12 AM EST NY for Oct 29 NYSE showing AH Moon exact cnj NYSE ASC:
https://ibb.co/xLHNNLy

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:12 am

I was responding to your FIRST remark - that there was only one time ever for AH Moon conjunct or opposite AH Saturn. I thoughtc you were saying that singular occurrence was the big deal; but I noticed there were many more occurrences.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:23 am

Its difficult for me Jim to get to grips with looking at SF lists for AH with any chart. All I really know to do is pay close attention to the personal points with this NYSE chart, or any AH chart.

I have one glaring question if it can be answered by someone with your type mathematical mind: Mathmatically, WHY does AH Saturn with this NYSE Chart exibit 40 year cycles with 0,180 aspects with the NYSE ASC?

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:34 am

SteveS wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:23 am
I have one glaring question if it can be answered by someone with your type mathematical mind: Mathmatically, WHY does AH Saturn with this NYSE Chart exibit 40 year cycles with 0,180 aspects with the NYSE ASC?
Saturn, in this chart, is 4°31'36" Aries. That means (in round, approximate numbers) that in the AH system it advances 4°31'36"'/year. To move 90°, it takes 90°00'/4°31'36", or just under 20 years (19.88 years). If you limit yourself to conjunctions and oppositions, we can double this - make it 180°00'/4°31'36" - to get an average of 39.76 years.

The speed of a planet in the AH system depends on where it is in the zodiac. This chart's Mars is at 26°53' Leo, so AH Mars moves 146°53'/year, or through 90° every 7+ months. The chart's Moon is 26°48' Pisces, so it moves 356°48'/year, or nearly a degree a day, covering 90° in just under 90 days.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:54 am

Thanks Jim. Crazy math. I will try to watch the monthly SF lists for AH hits to angles. Also will peer more into the past since I am familiar with some important tops and bottoms.

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:04 am

At least you're turning to the next logical question of "How in the world could you use such a system?"

I'm not AT ALL convinced that this is a reliable system. I get some really good results including a rare brilliant result, then I get about the same number of dismal failures. That's a clear hallmark of it's unreliability.

But if I did have a greater respect for its hindsight results, that still raises the question of how to use it looking forward in a practical way. It seems utterly unmanageable.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:00 pm

I share Jim's skepticism. If AH actually works, I don't even have a semi-decent theoretical idea of why it should work. I can somewhat grasp the theoretical underpinnings of solunars, ingresses, progressions, and directions. And it still leaves the question of which harmonic to use for a 6-month old baby. SF offers both options, because there is no consensus. And this method is said to produce to the second rectifications! If today were my sixty-fifth birthday, is it 65H or 66H? The answer may result in positions differing by anywhere from 0 degrees to 180 degrees, depending on a factor's proximity to the VP.. Certainly it will produce some good hits. So does randomness.

Once as a lark I cast a horoscope for a neighbor not by using an ephemeris, but a random number generator: Sun thru Pluto and the Angles were random sidereal longitudes. I then read this mess by the standard techniques of Sidereal natal astrology (approximating angularity by Porphyry houses) and wouldn't you know it, some indications fit! Not coincidentally, ones that restated themes in her actual chart by chance. A good example was Su op Me (bet you never thought you'd see that in a "geocentric" chart!). Of course her real chart had a close Su co Me.

BTW, she was in on the joke, I had read her actual chart to her in depth before. I was in my early twenties and she was in her mid-forties but still rather easy on the eyes. We were friends and laughed a lot. I have a feeling if I had played my cards more confidently than I knew how at that age, she would have been my first real sex ed teacher. She was in a marriage that was still affectionate but totally sexless due to his medical problems. She was Taurus-Capricorn (real chart), BTW, don't remember much else of her chart.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:25 am

I understand Jim & Mike where you are coming from. Its just I got hooked on Gann's Sun Dates in my early 20s with intense research, and since I have nothing but time in retirement I though I would give AH some research time since AH proved out so well with my birth time. I doubt I have the right mathemactical understanding with AH to possibly prove anyting out solid, but I am still mighty impressed with the NYSE AH for Black Monday Oct 29 1929.

AH with the NYSE may reveal something that could clue me on something very important for a good low risk swing trade somewhere in my remaining future, I don’t know. I will continue to research things for the rest of my solar year and see what happens. I do know Gann was working with natural law Sun Dates marked from the vernal point. For example if you will go to the following linkhttps://www.barchart.com/stocks/quotes/$DOWI/interactive-chart you will see a recent top in the Dow on one of Gann’s Sun Dates Nov 8th.

More later

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by mikestar13 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 am

I'd never tell anyone not to research something, and emotionally I hope you prove me wrong, Steve. I deem this technique unlikely to be added to the sideralist toolkit, but should it prove workable contrary to expectations, it isn't at all hard to calculate, though we must resolve the H = Age vs. H = Age + 1 question. If I were doing this research, I'd study both alternatives.

As a mathematically inclined astrologer, AH doesn't seem workable (but A+1H solves all these problems, no doubt why it was invented). Using AH, for a six month old baby, the age harmonic is 1/2 and the entire chart is compressed into half the zodiac reaching from the VP to its opposite point. For a two month old, the whole chart fits in a sextile. Worst of all, a newborn's AH is the VP. The mathematician in me is screaming in agony right now.

This would make AH the only birth chart based predictive technique that (ironically) really doesn't incorporate the birth chart seamlessly. You want a SSR for a six-month old? The birth chart is it, and responds to quotadians and PSSR's as well as transits. The progression for one day old doesn't look meaningfully different from the nativity, but it looks like a normal, readable chart, not something squashed into a single degree (actually slightly less, we would be using approximately the 1/365th harmonic).

Nevertheless, may the stars shine on you and your research bear fruit.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by mikestar13 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:51 am

SteveS wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:25 am
AH with the NYSE may reveal something that could clue me on something very important for a good low risk swing trade somewhere in my remaining future, I don’t know. I will continue to research things for the rest of my solar year and see what happens. I do know Gann was working with natural law Sun Dates marked from the vernal point.
A fruitful avenue of inquiry: create four piles of dates where
  1. Gann and AH both predict a market event.
  2. Only AH does.
  3. Only Gann does.
  4. Neither does.
Compare and contrast these groups.

BTW, I totally get why stock prices could be responsive to a VP based phenomenon: the market is heavily influenced by the calendar.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:44 pm

Thanks for your input Mike, I respect your experience, math/computer skills, and suggestions about researching AH with Gann dates.

Mike wrote:
I'd never tell anyone not to research something, and emotionally I hope you prove me wrong, Steve. I deem this technique unlikely to be added to the sideralist toolkit, but should it prove workable contrary to expectations, it isn't at all hard to calculate, though we must resolve the H = Age vs. H = Age + 1 question. If I were doing this research, I'd study both alternatives.
AH are a puzzling technique to me but very interesting! For sure they offer excellent symbolism with big events in my life with my Natal time, and for the biggest event in the history of the NYSE on Black Monday Oct 29, 1929. I will continue to research AH with NYSE as long as I see worthy stuff for historical major events in the market.

https://www.barchart.com/stocks/quotes/ ... tive-chart

The link above shows a Gann Sun Date in action for what appears to be a significant top, Nov 8 2021. Looking at AH chart for this date on opening bell 9:30 AM EST reflects some very interesting symbolism, again for the NYSE ASC at 22,00 Gem:
AH Uranus 21,58 Gem (for change of trend).
AH Neptune 22,01 Virgo.
This will only become interesting to me if the Nov 8 top proves to be a major top! Will monitor… Next, I want to do some research on another huge NYSE event---another Black Monday—Oct 19 1987.
Inside wheel AH Nov 8 2021 9:30 AM; Outside wheel NYSE
https://ibb.co/hBHQ7kd

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:09 am

Black Monday 1987 is most interesting in light of the NYSE 1987 SSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987)

NYSE 1987 SSR:
https://ibb.co/VWpVRvS

Jim did a lot of Sidereal Mundane Astrology research with historical financial panics and discovered a clear Moon-Neptune Signature.
NYSE 1987 SSR:
A Moon-Neptune Paran!
SSR Moon 0,19 cnj MC
SSR Neptune 0,37 cnj DSC
SSR Saturn partile cnj WP

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:57 am

The Gann Sun Date Top on Nov 8 has produced a monthly reversal, the first technical clue for a possible major top for 2021. So far, the Dow has had its largest price correction for 2021 from the Nov 8 top of 2,300 points. Technically, I find this most interesting, but also find interesting there were important near exact Age Harmonic aspects to the NYSE ASC on Nov 8, a new technique I am exploring for possible clues to which Gann Sun Dates in the future could be active, possible exciting stuff for my market technical mind combined with astrology. The market is super volatile---need more time to confirm a possible major market top.

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:50 am

A mystery I have been following where ever it leads me since 1980. This same mystery is what prompted me to take-up a serious study of mundane astrology.

Between 1980 and 1988, I did some intense market research into Gann’s “Square of Four Chart” which had 24 Dates spiraling around this chart. These 24 Dates are calculated by dividing 24 into the calendar year of 365 and its decimal days beginning with the Spring Equinox (Vernal Point). In order to do this research I had to obtain several years of DAILY price charts in different markets. After months of studying these price charts I discovered major market tops & bottoms (mostly tops) were happening on the EXACT days of these dates, with months of elapsed time before a new market high or low would occur. No doubt this proved to me a natural law (movement of the Sun throughout the calendar year) was actually timing these exact market tops & bottoms with much time (months) between the major tops and bottoms.

This year with tight angular Uranus symbolism in my current SSR, I discovered an astrological technique labeled Age Harmonics (AH). Jim helped me understand and calculate AH with Solarfire. It came to my mind a question: could AH with this NYSE Chart help calculate with high probability a future major market top or bottom on an exact Gann date? Knowing a natural law with the movement of the Sun beginning with Spring Equinox throughout a calendar year has something to do with major market tops/bottoms is most interesting to my mind, but really isn’t that big of a deal unless there is some other astronomical/astrological factor which will offer with very high probability WHICH Gann dates in the future have high probability of calculating a market top or bottom to the exact days of Gann’s dates.

As this new discovery of AH was recently happening in my mind, it just so happened a very significant top occurred in the Dow (NYSE) on Nov 8 (Gann Date) with a technical monthly reversal in price. It just so happened AH Uranus was near exact cnj NYSE ASC. AH Uranus only exacts cnj NYSE ASC once every 3 years.
If AH holds an astronomical/astrological key for Gann Dates, the Nov 8 NYSE top must cap the market for at least several weeks before a new all-time high is made, the longer in time elapse this tops caps the NYSE, the more important this Gann Date of Nov 8 combined with AH Uranus being within 2 minutes cnj NYSE ASC becomes, in other words, probably not an unimportant random event. On the other hand, if the NYSE quickly exceeds the Nov 8 top with new all-time highs, then I will state AH probably does not hold a key for forecasting future major Gann date tops & bottoms.

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:55 am

The Dow (NYSE) is presently (app. 35,600) in a strong rallying trend from its low of 33,754 from the Gann Date top of Nov 8 at 36,567, an all-time high. The Dow will have to quickly close on the weekly charts above 36,567 to resume this raging Bull Market. The market is still very volitile since the top on Nov 8. Volitility has always been a strong technical marker near Major Top & Bottoms.

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:44 am

The Dow has been approaching the November top. It crossed 36,000 again today and is currently at about 36,150. If nothing shakes it, we may see a new top this week.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:40 pm

Jim, if we close with new all time highs on the Dow weekly charts, this market may be headed to a massive blow-off top with your SMA sight about Jup-Nep on Capsolar Moon in April. Do you feel confortable about discussing this possibility with your SMA sight in this tread or another one of your threads?

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:43 pm

Feel free to share what we discussed as you wished. Ij a different form, it's already in my mundane forecasts for next spring.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:26 pm

Thanks Jim, we have plenty of time to discuss in depth later--lets see how the market closes the year out.

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:13 pm

The Dow momentarily topped November 8 today, then settled slightly below. I'm very interested whether the week, month, and year close above 36,679 tomorrow.
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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:02 am

Yes, we had the second test of the Nov 8th top this week. When it closes above this Nov 8th top on the weekly charts--a strong indication for a continiuing Bull Market. The market seems to be digesting Covid related issues across the nation/world as far as possible shutdowns.

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Re: A timed chart for the May 17 1792 NYSE Radical Chart

Post by SteveS » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:25 am

Based on my market analysis pertaining to World Equity Markets, particularly the DOW, it should make new yearly lows below 29,500 by the end of this Capsolar. If we don’t see selling pressure by the end of this autumn, expect the market to test the all-time high by the end of the year.

I am looking for the market to become very volitile when t Neptune becomes partile conjunct the NYSE's MC.

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