PSSI of the Arisolar

Q&A and discussion on Sidereal Solar & Lunar Ingresses, and transits & quotidian progressions of solar ingress.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:06 pm

long and packed with data.
Sorry, I missed this. :( What I really need to further my studies is all the AA articles by the early Siderealist's, asking you further questions. I am hoping Ken B gets these articles in book form.

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:08 pm

Ken's only doing the Fagan material, right? That's what he has the rights to. That wouldn't include the voluminous Bradley material or the several articles by Firebrace, Gleadow, Murakami...
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:42 pm

I think you are right, only Fagan stuff. We/I need it all. Will PM Ken to see about me getting the rest of the material giving you copyrights if that is ok with you. Who is Murakami :?:

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:50 pm

SteveS wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:42 pm
I think you are right, only Fagan stuff. We/I need it all. Will PM Ken to see about me getting the rest of the material giving you copyrights if that is ok with you. Who is Murakami :?:
Richard Murakami was a Siderealist with a gift for data research and an instinct for mundane prediction in the '50s and '60s. He wrote the American Astrology U.S. forecast for a while. Fagan and Bradley both cite him from time to time. He was completely sold on the importance of the U.S. president's administration chart (inauguration).
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:16 pm

He was completely sold on the importance of the U.S. president's administration chart (inauguration).
Are you "completely" sold on it ?

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:22 pm

I think it has value. I have an old thread around here somewhere showing that it's responsive to transits for major events. But, like national charts, it's nothing like the ingresses!

Murakami especially used it for predicting presidential elections, and he was never wrong. That makes sense because it has to do with the viability of the existing administration.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:27 pm

Murakami especially used it for predicting presidential elections, and he was never wrong. That makes sense because it has to do with the viability of the existing administration.
Were both real busy now, but let's try to look into this matter latter.

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:22 pm

Here's the thread on administration charts used as "natals" for events during the term of the administration:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=359
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:01 pm

Steve, could you please run the PSSI of the Capsolar (not Arisolar) for this event:

Earthquake August 5, 2018, 11:46:37 UT, 8S17'14'', 116E27'06''

My "mean rate" estimate shows an exactly angular Pluto - I'd like to know if that's actual. (The quake, which was qute severe and deadly, showed very poorly, even though it's somewhat milder, no-casualty predecessor quake showed quite dramatically. I'm curious about the PSSI Capsolar.)

Also the PSSI Cansolar, please? My estimate chart shows the transiting Mars-Uranus square on the angles (but transiting Venus conjunct PSSI Moon).

The PSSI Arisolar is potentially interesting as well. It looks like it might have ingress Mars square Ascendant.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 am

1: Jim asked:
Steve, could you please run the PSSI of the Capsolar (not Arisolar) for this event: Earthquake August 5, 2018, 11:46:37 UT, 8S17'14'', 116E27'06''
Jim, Janus calculates the Capsolar PSSI (Mean Rate) Asc 24,02 Sag for the Earthquake.

2: Jim asked:
Also the PSSI Cansolar, please? My estimate chart shows the transiting Mars-Uranus square on the angles (but transiting Venus conjunct PSSI Moon).
Yes! Janus CanPSSI MC (Mean) 5,27 Cap. CanPSSI Asc 8,00 Ari. CanPSSI Moon 3,16 Virgo. Impressive for the t. Mars-Uranus square on the ASC-MC!

3: Jim wrote:
The PSSI Arisolar is potentially interesting as well. It looks like it might have ingress Mars square Ascendant.
Yes! AriPSSI Asc 20,11 Virgo. *Also AriPSSI Moon 21,43 Pi partile 90 Ingress Mars. Solid hits here Jim.

When you need to check PSSI’s for future/past events, ask anytime, and as long as I am not traveling will be glad to calculate with Janus.

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:34 am

Thanks much, Steve!

Yes, these three are quite an interesting set. So far, we've had a hard time finding sufficient positive examples of the PSSI - so much so that strikingly good examples look random, "luck of the draw." I'm also aware that using examples where nothing showed well by other methods increases the odds of finding something (randomly, by chance) when you try another technique. (To explain: If the angles don't hit a "right planet" by one technique, putting them somewhere else is more likely to hit that right planet.)

But in this case it isn't just one chart but three different PSSI charts for the same event. That's a sobering example.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:49 am

Steve wrote:
SteveS wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 am
Yes! Janus CanPSSI MC (Mean) 5,27 Cap. CanPSSI Asc 8,00 Ari. CanPSSI Moon 3,16 Virgo. Impressive for the t. Mars-Uranus square on the ASC-MC!
Steve, does "(Mean)" mean that this is calculated by mean solar rate? I thought Janus calculated with apparent solar rate as Fagan taught - isn't that the whole point? Or does it allow you to choose?

If these are indeed mean solar rate, then they are even more interesting because the hits are so clean even though they are a different chart theory than Fagan and Bradley used. If possible (and if these were indeed for mean solar rate), could you redo these for apparent solar rate for comparison?

Thanks.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:45 am

Jim, Janus offers 3 options for the "Progressed MC Method" for progressing Solar Returns/Ingresses.

1: SSQ
2: PSSR True
3: PSSR Mean

Progressing the Capsolar Asc for the Earthquake Event, Janus calculates for:

PSSR True: 23,05 Sag
SSQ 6,05 Scorpio

What does this tell you Jim? Remember Matthew said Janus had some of these progressed rates miss-labeled, but I don't have the mathematical knowledge to determine what Janus is actually doing with these different p. rates.

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:51 am

SteveS wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:45 am
Progressing the Capsolar Asc for the Earthquake Event, Janus calculates for:

PSSR True: 23,05 Sag
SSQ 6,05 Scorpio

What does this tell you Jim? Remember Matthew said Janus had some of these progressed rates miss-labeled, but I don't have the mathematical knowledge to determine what Janus is actually doing with these different p. rates.
Well, at least one mislabelling is the use of "SSQ" which is no term Fagan ever used and likely means SQ or Neo-SQ.

As for the two PSSR optons, the "true" rate is the one Fagan taught. I've raised questions as to whether this was a correct move - should it be a mean rate instead? (That would solve enormous problems and make tne PSSR more easily trackable on Solar Fire, but we can't decide which technique is better based on which is more convenient for us :) ) In this case, the "true" Ascendant varies by over a degree from the "mean," which puts it still in orb of Pluto for the quake, but on the outer edge of its 2° orb.

If you could give the True rate angles for the other two ingreses, we can easily compare, for this example, which is better.

Also (I hate to suggest this double work) for the PSSI study you've been doing in this thread, eventually all events should be done twice, once for mean rate and one for true rate. The difference can be several degrees.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:55 am

If you could give the True rate angles for the other two ingreses, we can easily compare, for this example, which is better.
Will get back with you on this later this afternoon---got to make a couple of imp business calls before they get away for lunch.

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:42 am

Jim wrote:
If you could give the True rate angles for the other two ingresses, we can easily compare, for this example, which is better.
CanPSSR (True): MC 5,23 Cap, ASC 7,23 Ari
AriPSSI (True): MC 18,45 Gem, ASC 22,17 Vir
Maybe when you have time and/or feel a need, give me a test sampling of events from your SMA work where the Q charts show no hits, and I will run the PSSR’s to check if they are picking-up the daily hits with statistical satisfaction?

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:00 pm

SMA catalogue of events with dormant CapQ (nothing to show, good / bad / indifferent):


Nevada del Ruiz Volcano
Sylmar earthquake Earthquake
Nepal Earthquake Earthquake
Mitsubishi Hojyo Mine disaster
Okeechobee Hurricane Hurricane
Hurricane Andrew Hurricane
Typhoon Haiyan Hurricane
Hurricane Maria Hurricane
Niteroi Circus Fire Fire
Apollo 1 fire Fire
Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire
Durunkah fire Fire
Friendship Theater Fire Fire
Boston Marathon explosion Bomb
Chualar Bus Crash Vehicular
USS Thresher sank Vehicular
Trigana Flight 257 Vehicular
EgyptAir Flight 804 Vehicular
Hodges meteorite Impact
Bush v. Gore Pres crisis
RFK murder WASHINGTON Murder
Prince William birth Royals
USA for VJ Day War & Peace
Hiroshima (Washington) War & Peace
San Ysidro McDonald's Mass Murder
Red Lake shpotings Mass Murder
Charleston AME Mass Murder
Mandalay Bay Mass Murder
Jallianwala Bagh Massacre Massacre
Ghouta Sarin attack Massacre
SCOTUS Gay Marriage Uprising &c.
Apollo 8 - 1st Moon orbit Space
1873 Panic - Vienna Financial Panic
1931 Berlin Bank Run Financial Panic
1987 stock market crash - NY Financial Panic
1987 stock market crash - DC Financial Panic
2008 subprime mortgage crisis - DC Financial Panic
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:05 pm

Of these, there are charts where there SQ of other solar ingresses showed well. Here is a list of all dormant CapQ events with the corresponding Q scores from the CanQ, AriQ, and LibQ. - The only event where the CapQ was dormant and at least one of the other three didn't provide +1 or better is the San Ysidro McDonald's shooting

Code: Select all

CapQ	AriQ	CanQ	LibQ
D	2	-2	2
D	1	2	2
D	D	2	D
D	1	1	1
D	2	2	2
D	2	2	1
D	2	2	0
D	3	2	0
D	0	1	2
D	2	-2	2
D	0	2	1
D	2	2	D
D	2	D	D
D	2	2	3
D	-2	2	1
D	1	2	-2
D	2	1	1
D	D	2	D
D	1	1	D
D	1	1	1
D	D	2	0
D	D	2	0
D	2	0	2
D	3	D	D
D	-2	0	-2
D	2	1	1
D	2	0	3
D	2	1	0
D	2	2	1
D	0	2	1
D	2	-2	D
D	-2	D	2
D	1	2	2
D	2	2	0
D	2	-2	1
D	2	-1	2
D	2	1	2
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:42 pm

Got it! Give me some time and will run these PSSR's down. Have you ever formulated any type of solid opinion about the PSSR's with all the work you have done in your life with Sidereal Astrology? If you have already stated this opinion--I have forgotten.

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:15 pm

SteveS wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:42 pm
Got it! Give me some time and will run these PSSR's down. Have you ever formulated any type of solid opinion about the PSSR's with all the work you have done in your life with Sidereal Astrology? If you have already stated this opinion--I have forgotten.
Not a clear one. It was awkward enough to calculate in the best of times that I'd use it sparingly an mostly took my elders' word about it.

When I compared four different quotidians for a few months, day by day, I had poor results overall, but the PSSR did work out better than the others. The SNQ1 and SQ rarely produced solid hit for describing a day, but the SNQ2 and PSSR did better.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:20 pm

For the three PSSIs for the quake, notice that the angular hits were closer - and exceptionally close at that! - for all the Mean Rate examples, and less so for the Apparent Rate examples.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:32 pm

Jim wrote:
For the three PSSIs for the quake, notice that the angular hits were closer - and exceptionally close at that! - for all the Mean Rate examples, and less so for the Apparent Rate examples.
Indeed, which prompted my question to you about the PSSR's. By your Sidereal Astrology experience: Have you always favored the Mean rate over Apparent rate?

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:11 pm

SteveS wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:32 pm
Jim wrote:
For the three PSSIs for the quake, notice that the angular hits were closer - and exceptionally close at that! - for all the Mean Rate examples, and less so for the Apparent Rate examples.
Indeed, which prompted my question to you about the PSSR's. By your Sidereal Astrology experience: Have you always favored the Mean rate over Apparent rate?
Quite the contrary: The PSSR has always been defined as an Apparent Sun technique, with Mean Rate viewed (by Fagan, Firebrace, Bradley) as sloppy work. In this way, the PSSR is different from the SNQ and SQ.

So we have to check Apparent as we go (or, on the fires, do a second pass later).

Only recently, with my "user rate" way of estimating PSSRs with Solar Fire, have I seen any Mean Rate PSSRs and a few caused me to state that we need to reopen the question of which rate works better (if at all). For those who may have forgotten, a User Progression rate of 0.003430114 will create a mean-rate PSSR accurate for the average year. (It might be "close enough for gov'ment work.") But that's useless (except as a crude hint) if the Apparent Rate should be used.
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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by SteveS » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:10 pm

Just saw your above post which is damn interesting but somewhat confusing taking the Mean rate as best rate over Apparent. 10 Minutes ago I did some work (my first after earthquake work) on Invasion of Pearl Harbor--best time of hour I can find for dropping of bombs was 12:48 EST DC time, Dec 7th, 1941.

DC 's 1941 Arisolar:
Mundo Saturn 00,27 cnj IC

DC's Dec 7th 12:48 PM ARIPSSI (Mean):
DSC 00,08 Tau
UR 00,26 Tau
t. Saturn 29,34 Aries

CANPSSI for same time (Mean):
IC 5,42 Vir
t. Nep 5,46 Vir
Zenith 23,35 Pi
t. Mars 21,36 Pi

Are we to label all PSSR Solar Ingress Progressions as Bradley's PSSI, or only the ARIPSSI?

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Re: PSSI of the Arisolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:51 pm

SteveS wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:10 pm
Just saw your above post which is damn interesting but somewhat confusing taking the Mean rate as best rate over Apparent.
Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. The historic rate has always been Apparent. That's been the single biggest barrier to Solar Fire doing PSSRs. But when I found an easy way to approximate it (give or take 10° or so :( ) I started seeing some remarkable hits for the Mean rate, which raised the question of whether we'd been wrong all along and the mean rate was better. (I'm not saying it is. I'm saying we have to ask the question IMHO.)
10 Minutes ago I did some work (my first after earthquake work) on Invasion of Pearl Harbor--best time of hour I can find for dropping of bombs was 12:48 EST DC time, Dec 7th, 1941.
I think you're an hour off. The attack began at 7:48 AM HST (which is 1:18 PM EST) at Pearl Harbor Naval Station, 21N21, 157W56.
DC 's 1941 Arisolar:
Mundo Saturn 00,27 cnj IC
One thing I want to emphasize is that the fact we are consulting an Arisolar-based quotidian doesn't mean we're consulting the Arisolar itself. The Libsolar was the prevailing Quarter chart for Washington (but it was dormant for Hawaii). Though the above is quite good, there is no statistical basis for consulting the Arisolar itself for events in December unless the Cansolar and Libsolar are both dormant.

For the current catalogue of 354 events, if you exclude the Arisolar's own quarter (and of course exclude dormant charts) the Arisolar scored at least a +1 ("fits the event more than not") 115 times out of 151, or 76% of the time, which is a poor score. In comparison, for the Arisolar's own quarter, it was +1 or better 88% of the time.
DC's Dec 7th 12:48 PM ARIPSSI (Mean):
DSC 00,08 Tau
UR 00,26 Tau
t. Saturn 29,34 Aries

CANPSSI for same time (Mean):
IC 5,42 Vir
t. Nep 5,46 Vir
Zenith 23,35 Pi
t. Mars 21,36 Pi
Thanks :) These are both Mean. Did you calculate the Apparent for comparison?

These are pretty good, especially the Cansolar. They give a very different side of the event than the Washington CapQ and CanQ.

You didn't give the Capsolar, I'm guessing because it didn't show anything. My estimation method (of the mean rate) gives Asc 2° Aquarius, MC 17° Scorpio, which hits nothing.
Are we to label all PSSR Solar Ingress Progressions as Bradley's PSSI, or only the ARIPSSI?
I suppose we need to find language. If we said the name in full, it would be "Capsolar PSSI" (or possibly the words flipped). I propose PSSI-Cap, PSSI-Ari, PSSI-Can, and PSSI-Lib. Letting my playful side out, I recommend the letters PSSI be pronounced "pussy" so that these are pronounced "Pussy-Cap, Pussy-Can," etc.

I suppose we should distinguish whether it is mean or apparent rate until we settle onto a standard. This could be -A or -M at the end. So the apparent rate PSSI of the Capsolar would be the PSSI-Cap-A.

Does that work?
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