Jupiter in Libra

Q&A and discussion on outer planet sign transits, current aspects, and their impact on mass behavior.
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Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:16 pm

This weekend, Jupiter enters Libra for the next 13 months. Here are dates of Jupiter and Libra for the last century.

Sep 27 1922 to Oct 26 1923
Sep 11 1934 to Oct 10 1935
Dec 25 1945 to Mar 31 1946
Aug 24 1946 to Jan 23 1947
May 3 1947 to Sep 22 1947
Dec 3 1957 to May 8 1958
Jul 30 1958 to Jan 1 1959
Jun 12 1959 to Aug 26 1959
Nov 15 1969 to Dec 15 1970
Oct 31 1981 to Nov 29 1982
Oct 16 1993 to Nov 15 1994
Oct 2 2005 to Oct 31 2006
Sep 16 2017 to Oct 15 2018
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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by DDonovanKinsolving » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:53 pm

My overall impression, going mostly from memory, is a strong confidence in social order, sometimes internal, sometimes international.

Even the post-WW2 dates can be said to see the growth of competing international power blocs, for all the tension that competition crested.

Generally speaking, it seems to range from a benign faith that "things are going well" to "our way is the right way" - depending possibly on other positions and aspects.

-Derek

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:41 am

Here is Jim's preliminary/pre-research/off-the-cuff analysis of Jupiter in Libra made a few months ago in the Uranus in Aries thread. Just posting here for some extra perspective and food for thought. 🙂
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 10:20 pm
...Having not studied historic placements of Jupiter in Libra, I can only guess what it means. When it enters in September, I'll probably start historic research. One might think (probably what you're thinking) that it could enhance diplomacy, etc. I doubt (just from understanding the state of politics) that it will stabilize checks and balances, as nice as that symbolism is.

One might ask what Jupiter in Virgo has provided. Nothing comes to mind besides the "victory of the common worker" theme of the last election. At least, that's the Madison Avenue version of what came down. There are so many traditional Virgo themes that have done quite poorly this year, from healthcare to real care for the common, middleclass, working class folks. I have poor hopes for general social welfare.

ADDENDUM. Most lawyers are Libras. I would speculate that Jupiter in Libra shows heightened prosperity for more lawyers, especially in Big Law. If that is so, then expect highly advantageous legal victories for large corporations, accelerated merges and acquisitions, deeper inroads into monetization of novel entertainment avenues, and... perhaps especially... more lobbyists. In Washington, most lobbyists are attorneys, although there also are separate companies and individuals (still: most are attorneys). In theory, Jupiter in Libra is more about lawyers than the courts, and the general tone is "using the law for all good things for everyone" - but, in practice, I suspect "the good of everyone" will mean "the good of the wealthy."

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:01 am

Jim had said in the Saturn in Scorpio thread:
Jim Eshelman wrote:Saturn in Libra marked the nation's struggle with redefining the cultural vision of marriage...
Could Jupiter in Libra bring better progress in the institution of marriages and unions, or could it otherwise show a stronger-than-normal involvement of social norms/society/religion (Jupiter) on the views/definitions of marriage?

Australia is conducting a poll to receive the people's vote on marriage equality (although it's the Australian parliament that ultimately decides that), and Taiwan's Supreme Court earlier this year has ruled in favour of same-sex marriage, requiring the Taiwanese Parliament to either legalise same-sex marriage or introduce a new separate civil partnership legislation within the next two years.

Just the gay me hopelessly hoping that my country legalises homosexuality next year (with its Sun-Venus-Uranus-Pluto 2018 Capsolar) and that it legalises same-sex marriage soon enough within the next decade. 😓😰

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:11 am

TheScales_BothWays wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:01 am
Could Jupiter in Libra bring better progress in the institution of marriages and unions, or could it otherwise show a stronger-than-normal involvement of social norms/society/religion (Jupiter) on the views/definitions of marriage?
We don't want a theoretical answer, right? That just feeds fantasies and projections.

So... the way to answer is to look at the time periods Jupiter has been in Libra in the past, and see if "better progress in the institution of marriages and unions" or "stronger-than-normal involvement of social norms etc. on marriage" has occurred.

In theory, it could speak of a greater cry for justice in this regard; but, then again, it could mean more laziness and complacence and acceptance of things. So we don't want a theoretical answer.
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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:22 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:11 am
We don't want a theoretical answer, right> That just feeds fantasies and projections.
Yes. Especially to this Neptunian over here.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:11 am
So... the way to answer is to look at the time periods Jupiter has been in Libra in the past, and see if "better progress in the institution of marriages and unions" or "stronger-than-normal involvement of social norms etc. on marriage" has occurred.
As for "better progress," I've so far scanned through Wikipedia's article on the timeline of same-sex marriage—there's not much significant progress as compared to other years with Jupiter not in Libra. However, for the theoretical "greater cry for justice in marriage," we have this:
Wikipedia wrote:1970
On 18 May 1970, two University of Minnesota students, Richard John Jack Baker and James Michael McConnell applied to Hennepin County District Court clerk Gerald Nelson for a marriage license. He denied the application, because the applicants were both men. Baker and McConnell sued Nelson, claiming Minnesota law on marriage made no mention of gender. The trial court was not impressed with the argument, agreeing with Nelson. The state Supreme Court agreed with the lower court. When Baker and McConnell went to the Minnesota Supreme Court, the court rejected their lawsuit in Baker v. Nelson.
This is first on the timeline in the article. The Supreme Court decision however was only later in 1972 (with Jupiter already in the middle of Sagittarius), so this is might be a bad example.

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:42 am

There is also the issue of different countries and cultures moving at a different pace. The fact that Australia - Australia! - didn't lead the U.S. by a decade or more on gay marriage rights is staggering. You need, I think, to look at such things as a series of Capsolars for your nation's capital that have "freedom in Venus matters" signals, like the repeated Venus-Uranus-Pluto we had here in the key years.
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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:51 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:42 am
There is also the issue of different countries and cultures moving at a different pace. The fact that Australia - Australia! - didn't lead the U.S. by a decade or more on gay marriage rights is staggering.
I know! I was just as shocked as you are when I got to know that.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:42 am
You need, I think, to look at such things as a series of Capsolars for your nation's capital that have "freedom in Venus matters" signals, like the repeated Venus-Uranus-Pluto we had here in the key years.
I see. Unfortunately 2018 is the only year with such Venus-Uranus-Pluto/"freedom in Venus matters" symbolism in Malaysia's Capsolars. That year, along with following years, is more of showing a trend of Sun-prominent Capsolars, obviously showing a different direction of where my county is heading.

ADD: However, in 2018 I do seem to see a series of lunar ingresses with Venus-Uranus symbolisms (and an ingress with a Venus-Pluto symbolism), especially as you move into the latter half of the year.

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:27 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:16 pm
This weekend, Jupiter enters Libra for the next 13 months. Here are dates of Jupiter and Libra for the last century.
Been looking through events during these times. Lots of floods, bridge collapses, disasters leading to drowning. More than at other times? Don't know. But something that stood out to me.
Lots of violent political uprisings and over-throwings, (Hitler, Castro, end of Turkish Empire, Khmer Rouge, Dutch thrown out of Malaysia) mostly in an over-response to very bad conditions (inflation in Germany, etc). At first I thought it was a rise of Fascism, or a rise of strongly paternalist leaders, but there were lots of examples of Anti-Fascism that went too far as well.

I think Jupiter in Libra is extreme reactions and excessive behavior in response to very unfair conditions. And flooding.

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:39 am

Oh, I just got it. Landslides. Landslides are often caused by rain. Too much water. And bridge collapses are caused by action of water on the pilings. And so on. Water as a destructive force.
Jupiter Pluvius in action.

People who are stuck on Jupiter (and Venus) being benefics so how could they cause problems need to stop and look at how rain is usually a good thing, but when there's too much of it, (or when there hasn't been much in a long time, even a normal amount because the land can't soak up the rain) it can turn into a very bad thing. Mudslides.

The Dust Bowl became a thing under Jupiter in Libra. Dry land. Rain should balance, but excess rain caused floods and collapses when the dry land that had shrunk away from supports suddenly expanded and broke those supports. Also the pipes in Omaha streets blow up in summer when there's not enough rain because the earth supports and puts pressure on the old iron pipes, but drought makes the dirt shrink away, and the loss of the pressure lets weak spots burst.

There's something in my head here. Hope I got enough out to make sense. (This is my brain in think-tank mode.)

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by TheScales_BothWays » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:41 pm

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:27 am
Lots of violent political uprisings and over-throwings...Dutch thrown out of Malaysia
Not to appear so concerned about details, but as far as I remember from my history books, the Dutch handed Malacca (their only colony in the Malay Peninsula) to the British as a result of the Anglo-Dutch treaty of 1824. The British, in return, handed their colonies in Sumatra to the Dutch. It was a smooth process, and besides, the treaty was signed when Jupiter was in Gemini and it came into effect when Jupiter got into Cancer. 😉😊

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:26 pm

I didn't mean Malaysia. I meant Indonesia. Sorry, running on fumes and just went from vague memory rather than checking. December 5, 1957, the Indonesians expelled 326,000 Dutch nationals after Sukarno nationalized Dutch businesses.

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:18 am

Jupiter entered Libra this morning.

I'm not convinced that charts for such planetary ingresses are valid (though they are a mainstay of historic mundane astrology). In case they are, though, I should note that this occurred at 8:21:41 AM EDT this morning and, for Washington, DC, has Jupiter opposite Uranus across the Vertex axis. Here are their azimuths:

Jupiter 90°53'
Uranus 270°30'

That's a half-degree opposition rather than an almost 3° ecliptical one.
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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:23 am

Thinking theory for a moment, I'm looking back at early interpretations - mine and Bradley's, primarily - of slow planets in Libra. I'm hoping to get hold of my Uranus in Libra article from AA.

A couple of themes that Siderealists have considered in the past: Bradley, looking back on Neptune in Libra, emphasized themes of "dawn of a new era" (the Libra = sunrise symbolism, I imagine) and extreme polarization, too much A vs. B and not enough compromise and collaboration. I agree with these in theory. He elsewhere elaborated on this a bit more, seeing the Neptune passage as having brought chauvinistic focus on black and white, right and wrong, patriotism or treason, true blue and sinister red, fanaticism or atheism, whole hog or none. The big issues, such as civil rights, uncivil wrongs, the position of Red China, the space race, and the generation gap, were characterized by a religious kind of blind side-taking. Thinking in terms of extremes only, not the picture as a whole.

Writing another year on Jupiter in Libra, he wrote:
From earliest times the Libra symbol has represented blind idealism and the yearning for peace and brotherliness among mankind. Jupiter was parading through Libra in those first two years after V-J Day when so many of us were uplifted and made optimistic about the chartered course of the newly formed United Nations organization. A vain dream it may have been, but at least it was a happy one for millions of weary and sorrowful people around the world. The first stages of the Space Age, 1958ish or so, also coincided with a the-sky's-the-limit sunburst of world-wide daydreaming of a better future for humanity. One can trace the Jupiter-in-Libra compulsion to visualize the rainbow's end through the pages of history, in one form or another.
I find this section particularly interesting to our current quest. From the same periods, I suspect diplomatic opportunities for peace that have to be weighed against earlier eras.

Note that IDEALISM is a trait Bradley considered quite distinctively Libran. I've never regarded it that directly (often suspected it was more a side effect of Neptune in Libra during most of the time he was writing about it), but there is something like that to tap here. Certainly the peace theme. Something related to the hopefulness and advocacy sides of Libra, the tendency of so many of them to be activists for humane causes.

The last time Jupiter was in Libra was Oct 2 2005 to Oct 31 2006. George W. Bush was president. Something during this time I consider much more an act of vengeance than of justice was Saddam Hussein's trial. Germany's first female chancellor (Merkel) assumed office, and a few other women ascended to unprecedented state leadership. The U.N., in great unity, established the U.N. Human Rights Council. As for most of the 21st century thus far, it was a hostile and uncertain geopolitical environment, made worse by Israel launching a new Gaza war and an invasion of Lebanon. North Korea conducted its first nuclear test.

A striking Libra symbolism is in the first successful face transplant! Another striking Libra symbol (Libra as "place of sunrise") is the naming of the first Pluto mission New Horizons, launched during this time. The Cassini spacecraft discovered spewing geysers on one of Saturn's moons (Greeks and Romans said Libra's patron was the volcano god Hephaestus-Vulcan) - note it was Saturn, dignified in Libra. Another space mission (the Venus Express) first entered Venus' orbit. With spirited anti-Aries passion, Pluto was demoted by astronomers out of its planet status.


The prior passage was Oct 16 1993 to Nov 15 1994. Bill Clinton was a new president. A seemingly large number of volatile, violent, or at least politically unstable conditions prevailed: If there was a "peace" characteristic of the time, it was surely an anguished wish for more of it! Polarization seems a political theme, the acuteness of two sides in opposition: Bosnian destabilization was underway, and would worsen for nearly a decade. Sri Lanka civil war. Yemen Civil War. England vs. Northern Ireland is unstable but starts moving aggressively toward a solution. The Nancy Kerrigan - Tonya Harding violence occurs. Schindler's List is the preeminent film of the time, and a major cultural event. The Simpson-Goldman murders start one of the ugliest yet most compelling cultural phenomena of the decade (the following year's OJ Trials); also, Michael Jackson is charged with child molestation. The World Wide Web begins to emerge from the shadows in several key steps. Midterm elections flip strongly to Republicans as a slap at Pres. Clinton.

For successful diplomacy, NAFTA became a reality. For peace, the Brady Bill & Federal Assault Weapons. South Africa started formally migrating to post-apartheid government, and then to Nelson Mandela's presidency. Israel and the Vatican establish diplomatic relations. US & Russia sign an important nuclear arms restriction. Ditto Russia and China. Rodney King wins big on his civil rights trial. Allied occupation of Germany ends.


The prior passage was Oct 31 1981 to Nov 29 1982. Ronald Reagan was a new president. Immediately on entry, slavery is abolished in Mauritania, the Church of England agrees to admit women to holy orders, nd Luke & Laura marry on General Hospital (history's highest rated hour of TV ever). IBM PC & Commodore 64 announced; also, the first computer virus is unleashed (on Apple II). First US "test tube baby" is born. US-USSR nuclear weapons negotiations in Geneva. Nicaragua and El Salvador highly unstable. AT&T dismantled. Falkland Wars. Canadian independence from England (establishment of constitution & bill of rights). Israel withdraws fully from Sinai per '79 peace treaty. Israel invades Lebanon (Lebanon War), UN insists they leave. ET: The Extra-Terrestrial is the cultural event of the summer. Huge Nuclear Disarmament Rally in NYC, concentrating peace activists. The first International Day of Peace is proclaimed by the UN. Equal Rights Amendment officially fails. Northern Ireland criminalizes homosexuality.

The prior passage was Nov 15 1969 to Dec 15 1970. Richard Nixon is the fairly new president. The Vietnam War and the larger Cold War are in their full fury. Immediately on entry, US and USSR delegates meet for the first SALT talks, the giant effort to bilaterally reduce nuclear arms; and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty of dozens of nations goes into effect. Apollo 12 marks our second landing on the Moon (the first was four months earlier). The My Lai Massacre is revealed and stirs widespread outrage for its inhumanity. ARPANET goes live (precursor of the Internet, which reaches key developmental steps in later Jupiter-Libra transits). The first Earth SDay. Kent University Shootings; other campus riots & large protests occur (social justice outrage persists, peace is the focus).

This period was widely regarded as "The End of the '60s," with such events as the failed Altamont concert, the dissolution of the Beatles, the end of the Supremes, Hendrix & Joplin die, and general cultural shifts away from the values and trends of the 1960s. (But Isle of Wight Festival is a success.) I tend to think, though, that this is more Uranus and Pluto leaving Leo and Neptune leaving Libra the year before.


The prior passage was Dec 3 1957 to May 8 1958, Jul 30 1958 to Jan 1 1959, and Jun 12 1959 to Aug 26 1959. Dwight Eisenhower is president. The European Economic Community (which developed expanded a later Jupiter-Libra transit, and eventually became the EU) was founded to help integrate Europe's economies. The Peace Symbol was designed to protest atomic weapons expansion (and nuclear disarmament movements began or grew). Recession of 1958. Fidel Castro revolution in Cuba ends in Batista overthrow. U.S. Marines dispatched to Lebanon to protect the pro-Western government. NASA created from predecessor organizations. The sexually controversial Lolita is published in the U.S. First integrated circuit invented. Fifth French Republic constitution overwhelmingly approved. Pope Pius XII dies; succeeded by Pope John XXIII. Several emerging independent nations in Africa. John Birch Society founded. Rebellion by Kurds and communists in Iraq. Martial law declared in Laos. Cyprus independence.


The prior passage was Dec 25 1945 to Mar 31 1946, Aug 24 1946 to Jan 23 1947, and May 3 1947 to Sep 22 1947. This is the immediate aftermath of World War II, and Harry Truman was president. The first big event, two days after the first ingress, was the formation of the World Bank by 28 member nations. Several diplomatic shifts were happening quickly (too many to list), especially as Europe's map was being redrawn, nd much is shifting in South America. The United Nations held its first meeting; UNESCO & UNICEF are also established. The CIA's predecessor is established. The Nuremberg trials rev up. British coal mines are nationalized. The Cold War is taking shape during this time (good symbol of polarization while peace is maintained). Marshall Plan introduced to reconstruct Europe. Taft-Hartley Act puts significant permanent restrictions on union activities. A concentrated surge in UFO sightings & related events. Princess Elizabeth of England engaged.


The prior passage was Sep 11 1934 to Oct 10 1935. Franklin Roosevelt is president. USSR & Afghanistan join the League of Nations. King Alexander of Yugoslavia is murdered during a state visit to France. Aggressive efforts in China to establish Communism. The Abyssinia Crisis weakens and discredits the League of Nations. Japan renounces existing treaties constraining development of its navy. Hitler re-establishes the German air force & military draft despite treaties. Bruno Hauptman trial (Lindbergh kidnapping). Italy & France agree not to oppose each other's colonial claims. Discovery of the first significant antibiotic. New Deal programs begin reemploying Americans. Social Security is enacted. Germany revokes Jews' citizenship.


The prior passage was Sep 27 1922 to Oct 26 1923. Warren G. Harding is president, succeeded by Calvin Coolidge. Mussolini comes to power in Italy. Soviet control of Russia solidifies, ending Russian Civil War; USSR is formed. German economy is in shreds from hyperinflation. Ottoman Empire is abolished after 600 years; Turkey is created by Swiss diplomacy. Irish Civil War overlapped this mostly. Bulgaria coup. President Harding dies. Spanish military coup, Rivera takes over, trade unions outlawed for 10 years. Bavaria, von Kahr assumes dictator powers. England creates Palestine as a protectorate. League of Nations partitions Syria and Lebanon.
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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:20 am

"A new day is on the horizon." With those words, last night, Oprah Winfrey may have given us the best tagline yet for Jupiter in Libra - and she did it on a night when Mars and Jupiter were in partile conjunction in Libra.

As mentioned above, Siderealists have commonly used "dawn" as a primary symbol of Libra. Fagan showed us the archaeology behind Libra's glyph being a modified hieroglyph for "the place of sunrise," or "eastern horizon at dawn." Bradley used this as a metaphor in his mundane predictions (I think I first saw it with his Neptune in Libra) - the idea that major planet transits through Libra always show some kind of "dawning of a new era" theme.

Then, several weeks ago, some Tropical astrologers started a conversation that, since they thought Jupiter in (Tropical) Scorpio was the main astrological force behind the #MeToo movement, how in the world did Siderealists justify it? I responded that it was quite easy: Jupiter in Libra was a better symbol. Jupiter in Scorpio would seem to let male-dominant sexual power structures thrive and do very well. Jupiter in Libra was female-empowering and represented a stronger wave of equality on power structures.

Oprah's speech last night at the Globes brought this all together. This morning, news media in all corners of the nation (and, probably, the globe) are using "A new day is on the horizon" and "sexual equality" in the same paragraphs.
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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by SteveS » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:04 am

Will Oprah run for President?

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Re: Jupiter in Libra

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:13 am

SteveS wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:04 am
Will Oprah run for President?
A lot of people hope so,. Her speech last night had all the power and eloquence of such an undertaking.

If anyone wants to check her chart (in another thread :) ), she was born January 29, 1954, 4:30 AM CST, Kosciusko, MO. BTW, our next president, I am certain, will have a Taurus or Scorpio luminary, and this would include possibilities like Oprah (Scorpio Moon) and Biden (Scorpio Sun). If Pence succeeds Trump (his Taurus Sun qualifies), then his successor will have a luminary in either Taurus or Scorpio, or Gemini or Sagittarius.
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