JAE tert testing

Q&A and discussion on Tertiary Progressions
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Jim Eshelman
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JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:31 pm

I've had several tert aspects come and go without a particular noticeable result, but this week was different.

Tert Mars opposed tert Saturn Sunday. For two to three days either side, I was in one argument after another losing my temper repeatedly like I haven't in a decade or two. (It reminds me in hindsight of the years I was with a lover whose Saturn was partile square my Mars.) It was quite obvious - everything felt to be too much of a demand, a draw on energy, an intrusion - then it was gone.

Nothing else reflected this at all unless you consider natal Pluto being strong in various returns.
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by SteveS » Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:13 am

Noel Tyl (RIP) was into terts. I tested em in my own "outstanding" :) way but did not get much out of em.

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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:26 am

SteveS wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:13 am
Noel Tyl (RIP) was into terts. I tested em in my own "outstanding" :) way but did not get much out of em.
I'd like to like them. Two people I respected more than most people in the world - Edward Lyndoe and Donald Bradley - praised them. Firebrace was more than a little fond of them here and there. And I'd forgotten Noel's interest, so that makes four on my "respected favorites."

But they're so damn inconsistent. I certainly don't need them in general - although nothing else caught this particular few days quite so squarely. Were it not for watching terts at the moment, I'd have thought it more connected to transiting Saturn crossing my local WP-a, but the timing was a bit off; and it wasn't so much Saturn per se (loss or being taken from) as a sense of invasion, like someone busted into my fortress without permission (psychological equivalent). [On that note, I'd even forgotten until this moment that these also were the days that someone we'll all remember was persistently trying to break into the site.]

When I've looked at terts against discrete important events, what has impressed me most in the past were precise angular contacts - often within a few minutes. But I've had a couple of tert angle contacts recently (same theory of how to calculate the angles) that were utter dead notes OR too general to discern, like a P3 MC to Pluto a week or two earlier that should have been good for some moment of the universe "owning" my full attention. But the only way the universe demanded my attention at the time was in pointing out that the P3 MC to Pluto was a dud. (P3 L Asc square r Mercury this week is hard to assess: There is ALWAYS Mercury stuff going on.)

Anyway, I'm watching them for a year. This one was right on the mark for when it was exact to roughly the minute. The next one is P3 Mercury opposite r Saturn January 31
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by SteveS » Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:05 am

Interesting Jim! Noel used terts, I think, mainly with Solar Arcs to help confirm when a Solar Arc hit would fire-off. I will try and remember to go back and pull some of his examples to see if you can see the same importance for terts as Noel. I know I did not look at en with depth of thought you would look at em. :)

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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:40 am

I think he relied on tert Moon primarily. That's an awfully fast marker! (I mostly ignore tert Moon - act like it's not in the chart - it moves so fast, crossing a degree every two or three days.)
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Danica » Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:20 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:31 pm
[...] Sunday. For two to three days either side, I was in one argument after another losing my temper repeatedly like I haven't in a decade or two. (It reminds me in hindsight of the years I was with a lover whose Saturn was partile square my Mars.) It was quite obvious - everything felt to be too much of a demand, a draw on energy, an intrusion - then it was gone.

Nothing else reflected this at all unless you consider natal Pluto being strong in various returns.
[...]it wasn't so much Saturn per se (loss or being taken from) as a sense of invasion, like someone busted into my fortress without permission (psychological equivalent).
Doesn't seem like a mystery (that'd need the invocation of terts to be "explained" :) ) when you consider the transit of Mars to natal direct Midpoints (period ~ 12/22-29, from what I get from your description), and specifically this in light of the current monthly tide (LS 12/17).

Tr Mars will be back to touch upon that same rx MP sequence during second half of January (- albeit under different monthly/bi-weekly tides, which I don't think is the layer/factor to be neglected), so - good opportunity to observe, with the December pass being recent enough (= fresh in memory) for comparison.
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:35 am

Danica wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:20 am
Doesn't seem like a mystery (that'd need the invocation of terts to be "explained" :) ) when you consider the transit of Mars to natal direct Midpoints (period ~ 12/22-29, from what I get from your description), and specifically this in light of the current monthly tide (LS 12/17).
We disagree on the value of transits to midpoints. I consider them trivial. And, while Mars had minor transits to Mars and Neptune before and after that time, they weren't there during that time.

The Saturn-Uranus dominance in the LS matched lots of other Saturn-Uranus going on, especially the 0°02' Saturn-Uranus square closely angular in the 12/15 Demi-Lunar. There might have been a bit of this, but Saturn-Uranus rarely is eruptive in my experience - it's more static. Some of the themes matched in broad terms (the space-and-time sensitivity, for example, could have been that), though the whole tone singled out as something different and centered on the time of the progression.

I'm not saying it was the progression, since the whole purpose of watching them this year is to see if they can prove themselves in action. But, on the path of testing them, this one gets acknowledged for being right at the center of an unusual (not seen in many years) expression centered right on it and matching the planet symbolism.
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Danica » Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:48 am

We disagree on the value of transits to midpoints. I consider them trivial.
From what I can see, tr Mars during those days was touching exact (zooming-in) on the rx:
Chi/Se
Ma/Se
Sa/N.No
Ne/Chi
Ma/Ne
Mo/Pl


- seems fitting to what you described of the experience/events.

(Re the Ma-Sa combo within the same chart: that's everything-but tendency to lose temper, a triggered hyper-sensitivity to what-comes-from-outside as intrusion/invasiveness with an eruptive response to it, etc -- if it was, say a Ma-Ur, or Ma-Me, or Ma-Er, or Ma-Me combo, the erupting kind of tendency fully makes sense; with Ma-Sa, it's almost exactly the opposite!)
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:58 am

Danica wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:48 am
We disagree on the value of transits to midpoints. I consider them trivial.
From what I can see, tr Mars during those days was touching exact (zooming-in) on the rx:
Chi/Se
Ma/Se
Sa/N.No
Ne/Chi
Ma/Ne
Mo/Pl
Again, I wouldn't look at these as significant contributors. (Perhaps as trivial markers of passing moods, but nothing serious or very noteworthy.) Also, while you think bringing in tertiary progressions are lesser, I wouldn't consider including Moon's node or Chiron in a mix like this, and am trying not to looks at Sedna when we have factors operative that we really know for sure what they mean.

So, were I to consider transits to natal midpoints, the only things on your list that I'd count are Ma/Ne and Mo/Pl. Transiting Mars was certainly at natal Mars/Neptune but - having watched transits to my natal Mars-Neptune square all my life - it's not at the midpoint that they "act up." It's on the exact hits of each of them individually. I do agree that - in broad terms, with what I described - Ma = Ma/Ne = Mo/Pl isn't a bad description. I do think, though, that it's bad astrology: These are minor factors that occur too frequently to associate with (more or less) once a decade events.

If terts don't prove out in the months to come, I'd have to fall back to the demi-lunar, which was at least in the "out of the ordinary event" category:
https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 521#p50733
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Danica » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:31 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:58 am
These are minor factors that occur too frequently to associate with (more or less) once a decade events.
Yes, hence in what I say the emphasis on not neglecting the monthly/bi-weekly tide - as well as the wider ones, of course. (Of which, the first-next wider period layer/tier in this case is your current qSL 12/14/22.)

Bad astrology is looking at phenomena in an isolated manner, as if the shorter-term ones appear somehow "on their own", without any relation to the context of the pertinent wider-term tides.
Last edited by Danica on Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:53 pm

Danica wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:31 pm
Bad astrology is looking at phenomena in an isolated manner, as if the shorter-term ones appear somehow "on their own", without any relation to the context of the pertinent wider-term tides.
Scientific distinctions require looking at phenomena in an isolated manner - one factor at a time. With sufficient data, the other factors filter out as "noise" that gets lost in the blur. The challenge (which comes at a much later stage than this present thread) is having sufficient controls to clearly assess the individual factor unmolested by other considerations.

Some of the greatest astrological minds of the 20th century vouched loudly for tertiary progressions. They're already part of the canon. However, their relative proportionate importance hasn't been determined to my satisfaction. Test results have been uneven. I've acted for years as if I can simply ignore them, and it may be that I can (that they are never more than supplemental and confirming). Adding the exact tert-to-tert and tert-to-natal major hard aspects to my calendar for a year and commenting on them seems a small thing for me to do in service to those who came before me.

But Bradley said much the same thing in his 1970 article: He emphasized that terts can be great, often having orbs or appropriate aspects within mere minutes and nailing about 705 of events. But he also said that they aren't a replacement technique, but a supplement, and that one shouldn't sweat it if transits and secondaries already show an event and the terts don't. Each of these categories seems to nail an event about 7 times out of 10.
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Danica » Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:38 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:53 pm
[...] in service to those who came before me.
You have communicated about an experience, with astrology-related comment/conclusion to it.
I have responded to that by communicating a different astrology-related perspective on the experiences you shared about, without intention to engage in a debate or a dispute, solely with intention to be of service to those who'll come after me -- this is clearly the central divergence factor, disabling even a potential for communication at the onset, with perpetually turning the stream toward a loopy-movement of futility of some debate/argument, instead of it flowing in an open, actual-conversation manner.
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:26 pm

A funny thing I just noticed: That Mars-Saturn opposition? Well, it just so happens my terts have advanced to a time one week after Mike Nelson's birthday. That's HIS Mars-Saturn (made exact a week later). - No, the arguments weren't with him, but seven months ago my terts were his natal chart.
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:32 pm

Today, transiting Uranus exactly squares my P3 Moon.

We normally think of transits moving faster than progressions although, in this case, the progressed planet is moving faster than the transit. Tertiary Moon moves an average of about 13° (a day's motion) per month, or a degree every two or three days. Transiting Uranus moves much slower.

In any case... does this seem operative?

There may be an effect, but not a strong one. I expect quite a lot from transiting Uranus aspecting natal or progressed Moon (which are more or less the same). This is nothing like that!

If there is a Uranian effect at all, it is that, over the last couple of days, I realized that the Angularity chapter I'd been stuck on for a couple of weeks was in the wrong place. If I moved the Aspects chapter ahead of the Angularity chapter (and the subsequent Mundoscope / Mundane Angularity and natal Relocation chapters), I would have numerous advantages and be able to work around the particular roadblocks. It's a better way or developing things. So, I may credit a Uranian type effect to breaking loose a roadblock and to the mild (but clear) excitement I have to having just completed outlining the three stages of the Aspects chapter, including almost a dozen segments I've written over time on the forum.

But... this doesn't feel that much like a Uranus transit to Moon which, as mentioned, seems it should be much more. Even if I say yes, this was the source of today's Uranus (and the couple of days building to it), I have to call this a mild effect - one I could happily have never associated with any astrological pattern, simply the way the week was going.

And, if I need Uranus for today, the easiest access is to PSSR MC square transiting Uranus.

I'd rather credit it to the transit to tert Moon than to a PSSR angularity (which only rarely rises to the occasion of defining the tone of a day) but, in doing so, I have to label the Uranus transit to tertiary Moon to be mild, a passing effect.

The next one is transiting Saturn opposite tertiary Moon January 26.
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Re: JAE tert testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:56 pm

Today is the exact day of transiting Saturn opposite my P3 Moon. I'm not feeling it.

I know many think tert Moon isn't all that big of a deal. I lean that way myself. Nonetheless, it moves slowly enough (1° every few days) that it can be tracked.

Today is also the exact day of a secondary progressed Moon-Venus semisquare; however, this isn't an offset IMHO. First, the semisquare is pretty minor. Second, it's the Venus end of Moon aspecting a progressed Venus-Saturn conjunction. Youd think, if anything, this would be an intensifier. It isn't. (I credit a combination of the octile being minor and that I have a great recent Demi-SLR and new SLR.) My Venus-Saturn progressed conjunction began in 2003 and lasted until 2010, then backed off until 2017. It came in long enough to plan and execute my wedding and still lasts until January 2025, but it's made its final exact pass and this month is the final progressed Moon aspect to it. (If it were going to peak, it would have been over the last two days when the Moon-reinforced progressed Venus-Saturn conjunction crossed the SNQ MC.) All that happened is that Marion had to be out of town for a day and a half. (She flew to Houston to replace her LA-centric Demi-SLR of Mars-Neptune on natal Moon-Sun-Pluto with an alternative chart that had two Jupiters angular.)

Anyway, I'm not impressed with transiting Saturn opposing P3 Moon today. I should be far more miserable.
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