Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

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Jim Eshelman
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Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:59 pm

Bill Clinton: August 19, 1946, 8:51 AM CST, Hope, AR (AA)
Monica Lewinsky: July 23, 1973, 12:21 PM PDT, San Francisco, CA (AA)

There is a lot of fascinating stuff to learn by studying these charts together. I suggest (to cut through the simplistic media tales and first-person perspective) viewing these charts while watching Barbara Walters' interview with Monica in 1999.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUUATD_pfYE
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Re: Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

Post by SteveS » Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:09 am

Jim, when you get time, what do you see in their comparrison charts? I never will forget the moment when I analyzed Bill's SSR after the Lewinsky's scandal broke. I think I will go back and revisit this SSR.

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Re: Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 02, 2023 8:50 am

SteveS wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:09 am
Jim, when you get time, what do you see in their comparrison charts? I never will forget the moment when I analyzed Bill's SSR after the Lewinsky's scandal broke. I think I will go back and revisit this SSR.
I could write an essay, but was hoping not to - just leave it here as part of the good examples for others to examine. The SSR, of course, is another matter - predictive work. I'm always more interested in charts (whether natal or synastry) outside of time, i.e., their permanent meaning.

In this case, the gist is that the interchange is extremely positive on so many dynamics - I really don't want to give interpretations that would bias people's reading before they watch the interviews and draw their own non-astrological conclusions. The one rough aspect is that Bill's Saturn closely conjoins Monica's Sun. The reason I find this especially interesting is that it also (even closer) squares Hillary's Sun. (Monica and Hillary's Suns are closely square each other.) Something in Bill's character leads him to pick women whose Sun aspects his Saturn. Also, I was surprised on rereading to learn that my standard interpretation in this Synastry section on the Sun-Saturn interchange fits Bill and Monica quite exactly (given my non-astrological reading of the relationship) - but, of course, only in the context of the rest of the chart interchange.
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Re: Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Mon Jan 02, 2023 10:14 am

I think they had enormous positive mental activity.
Admiring, respecting, promoting, endorsing, and encouraging each others ideas as they share a mutual Mercury-Jupiter aspect. Plus his Jupiter is on her Eastpoint whilst her Mars is opposite his Jupiter. That may have set her on fire for him I guess. ;)
His Venus opposing her Eris would welcome that, I guess being a promiscuous influence and having no problem with it. :)

His Mercury-Pluto squares her Moon, an aspect of great mental activity. Moon-Pluto is the moth to the flame attraction, take it or leave it.
Her Venus squares his Sun, a very positive aspect for friendship.
As Saturn is conjunct her Sun I'd think this is te barrier between them, perhaps the forbidden, the force against what was going on.

But I think she knew exactly what she was doing as her natal shows an '0'08'' mundo angular Mars opposite Uranus. :)

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Re: Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 02, 2023 10:32 am

FlorencedeZ. wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 10:14 am
Plus his Jupiter is on her Eastpoint whilst her Mars is opposite his Jupiter. That may have set her on fire for him I guess. ;)
I like to start with looking simply at signs, without getting into aspects; and, in that regard, I note that both his Venus and Mars are in Virgo with her Mars in Pisces. As a first impression, those are mighty powerful pairings!

Though, at the signs-only level, the really big deal is that they had the same Moon sign. People with the same or opposite Moon signs simply feel at home with each other, like they're a comfortable fit. I noticed in my school years that the small clusters of girls who hung out with each other and were best friends mostly had their Moons in the same sign.

You've made many excellent observations, Flo! :) (No need for me to comment on each one. Catching the two-way Mercury-Jupiter is right to the point, I think, along with his Mercury square her Moon.)
His Venus opposing her Eris would welcome that, I guess being a promiscuous influence and having no problem with it. :)
I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be how that interchange works.

But also... one of the biggest things... is that his Venus is conjunct her Ascendant.
Moon-Pluto is the moth to the flame attraction, take it or leave it.
Yes!
But I think she knew exactly what she was doing as her natal shows an '0'08'' mundo angular Mars opposite Uranus. :)
I think she knew exactly what she was doing - at least, as far as a 23-year-old can know. Her chart isn't that of a push-over, and the way she conveys herself then and since is anything but naive or push-over. A double Rim with Uranus rising in (as you say) 0°08' opposition to setting Mars. (For that matter, Eris exactly angular, on her WP-a. She's not constitutionally opposed to letting chaos churn around her.)

Looking at her natal, though, I can't help notice the condition of her Venus. I mentioned elsewhere that - whether just because it's in Leo or, perhaps, because it's exactly conjunct Regulus ecliptically and mundanely - there may a circuit in her that is attracted to "kings" in some sense. But, more simply, Venus is background, in a sign not necessarily comfortable for Venus, with its one outstanding aspect being a partile sextile to Saturn. It's not an easy, comfortable Venus at all. (And mundanely its square to Neptune gets much closer.) She is much stronger as Sun, Mercury, Uranus, and Mars than as Venus.
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Re: Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 02, 2023 10:41 am

To add some things most people aren't going to check: With Monica's Mars-Uranus opposition at 25-26° Pisces-Virgo, Bill's Novien Moon is 26°50' Pisces!

And then - turn it around - here are very telling aspects from her Novien to his natal with devastating consequences:

11°14' Pis - Monica's N Saturn
11°43' Sag - Monica's N Moon
12°22' Vir - Bill's r Mars
12°32' Pis - Bill's r Eris
12°52' Vir - Bill's r Neptune
13°53' Sag - Monica's N Uranus

(Her Novien Venus is also 7° Virgo, near that Mars-Neptune.) If this were transits to his chart for the event, we'd think it an exact, descriptive hit.

Her important Moon-Jupiter square at 14-15° Rim meets his Novien Saturn 13°18' Capricorn.

It's interesting that the Noviens produce a significantly different version than the interchanges of the natals - though not incompatible with it.
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Re: Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Mon Jan 02, 2023 10:59 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 10:32 am
I like to start with looking simply at signs, without getting into aspects; and, in that regard, I note that both his Venus and Mars are in Virgo with her Mars in Pisces. As a first impression, those are mighty powerful pairings!
Though, at the signs-only level, the really big deal is that they had the same Moon sign. People with the same or opposite Moon signs simply feel at home with each other, like they're a comfortable fit. I noticed in my school years that the small clusters of girls who hung out with each other and were best friends mostly had their Moons in the same sign.
Exactly Jim. You are right. I jumped straight to their synastry instead of looking at signs first. This is a good reminder.

As for his Venus on her Ascendant, I need to adjust Solar Fire to a wider setting. As it is '4'08'' orb, I overlooked one of the most telling interchange aspects. :)
Interesting to learn about her background Venus in Leo, making the other planets stronger then Venus.

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Re: Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:20 am

What happens when we progress Bill's chart to the moment and place of Monica's birth? The quotidian is extremely telling (including the fact that it has essentially his natal angles):

11°58' Vir - SNQ Asc
12°22' Vir - r Mars
12°28' Gem - SNQ MC
12°32' Pis - r Eris
12°52' Vir - r Neptune
13°40' Vir - SNQ EP-a
13°45' Vir - p Neptune

Their birth times were geometrically interlocked with the gap from locations and across dates. She also had SNQ Asc for his birth almost precisely her natal Asc. The one thing this brought closest to the angles was her natal Mars-Uranus opposition:

24°53' Vir - r Uranus
25°42' Vir - SNQ EP-a
25°46' Pis - r Mars
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