Uranian Astrology

Do you have an insightful (or crazy?) idea off the main roads & most traveled side streets of Sidereal Astrology? This is its non-canonical place!
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:04 pm

Good example.
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:32 pm

I'm a little confused. Hand is a Uranian astrologer?

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:28 pm

No. Though his colleague Gary Christensen {sp?} is.
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:16 am

Contacted Michael Feist about purchasing metal disks for Uranian Astrology, and his reply:
Hi Steve,
IUF is not selling. So, I answer as owner of Witte-Verlag publishing. At Witte-Verlag publishing, we don't offer metal dials anymore, sorry. We still have many in our "museum", but no offers for sale. I think the last time we produced metal discs was in the 1970s.

Kind regards,
Michael

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:49 pm

:(

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:52 pm

The demand probably wasn't big. They were very easy to get in the '70s or even early '80s, and I really havn't looked since then.
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:58 pm

I am in the slow process of checking out what the specialized computer program for Uranian Astrology will do. I am guessing this program has made mechanical dial work obsolete. In the meantime here is an interesting link which I do not fully understand with Uranian dial work pertaining to Hades as Court Evidence in certain forbidden sex cases.

http://uraniansociety.com/USIG_articles ... IDENCE.pdf

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Soft Alpaca » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:47 pm

I understood most of what was being said. I just don't think it's actually valid. Moreover I very much dislike they way they do some planet descriptions. Jupiter is used in verbal expansion (Huge this, giant that) and then all of the sudden in a different example you add nodes to a moon and some Hades-Venus and vulcan and you get a whore house...

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:43 am

Soft Alpaca wrote:
I understood most of what was being said. I just don't think it's actually valid.
I understand SA, but Jacobson who wrote the book "The Language of Uranian Astrology" solidly endorsed the Sidereal Lunar Return claiming it to be as Cyril Fagan one, if not the best charts available to the astrologer. So, this gains my respect for Jacobson as a enlighten astrologer. Jacobson writes from his book about the language (system) of Uranian Astrology:
Any astrological system that already works as a viable grammar can, in other words, put the TNP's to use profitably. The workability of the Uranian system itself does not hinge upon the inclusion of what critics may, for whatever reasons, choose to call nonexistent quantities. The eight additional factors (TNP's) give additional information because they enlarge the Uranian vocabulary.
I am investigating the Uranian system with curiosity and an open mind, adding links to this topic which may or may not assist me or any forum member who may be interested in the Uranian system. Even without using the TNP's, I think the Uranian system has other techniques which may help one better understand their Natal's.

Jacobson writes:
The factors of Uranian astrology are arranged with respect to each other in different ways in different horoscopes, because different planets move at different rates. A particular arrangement of planets correspond to a particular set of meaningful statements. Each horoscope is unique.


Right now in my investigation of Uranian astrology, the only TNP's which peaks my interests is Hades, because of all the 8 TNP's, Hades definitely confers possible very malefic stuff, more so than Saturn IMHO. Personally, I am interested in investigating Hades only with Mundane Astrology for the rare most malefic happenings in the World. I have already seen where 2-3 Uranian astrologers have said Hades figured in strongly with this Covid-19 pandemic, but I don't really understand what charts they were analyzing. I need to understand a-lot more about the Uranian system.

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:39 am

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:47 pm
I understood most of what was being said. I just don't think it's actually valid. Moreover I very much dislike they way they do some planet descriptions. Jupiter is used in verbal expansion (Huge this, giant that) and then all of the sudden in a different example you add nodes to a moon and some Hades-Venus and vulcan and you get a whore house...
Ys, their more keyword-driven approach doesn't match my style or how I think we should be understanding astrology. In fact, in the few years I was digging most into Uranian, I kept trying to think of the TNPs in more motivational, psychologically mindful ways and this got in my way.

The stylistic points you raise also were important in Reinhold Ebertin's thinking when he pulled together the principles of Cosmobiology. In The Combination of Stellar Influences, in the Introduction, he distinguished his thinking about combining planetary ideas with Witte's ideas. It's a slow read and I haven't taken the time to go through it thoroughly for decades, but I encourage you to read it.

You found some funny examples that are, indeed, quite consistent with the way some Uranian astrologers would combine ideas. Almost the only way to do "full tree analysis" with 22 astrological factors is to have one or two words for each planet and string them together. I have one Uranian astrologer friend who is quite good but we sometimes banter about (what I consider) her over-reliance on "big" for Jupiter. (Witte's primary Jupiter keywords were "gaiety, contentment happiness, good luck, money, success.") Though the TNPs aren't intrinsic to the method, Hades deals basically with rot, refuse, poverty, and degradation - my easiest way to remember is to think of Hades as the "untouchables" class in traditional Hindu culture and the way they are attributed to the tamas guna. So, when you combine Venus ideas with this "untouchables, degradation, rot" idea you get ideas like "repulsiveness in love, grief, secret love, dirty-minded, low & purchasable love" (but also female servants, a maid or waitress) - remember, these are immediately post-World War I German male ideas - and you already have the ideas of a prostitute. Add Vulcanus (energy force, over-powering - surely understood as men overpowering others) and you start to get a darker idea that, in his two-line summary of Vu = Ve/Ha Ludwig Rudolph managed to include "crimes among prostitutes." Add Moon/Node to the picture - something even Ebertin would have interpreted as "gatherings or associations 'f women" - and the idea of a house of prostitution is almost inevitable. (Witte interpreted Moon + Node as "women's unions" among other similar things.)

So it holds on analysis - but I like that the keywordsy approach hits you the wrong way.
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am

Jim, here is another example of Uranian Astrology involving Supreme Court without AA birth times. Your opinion?

http://uraniansociety.com/USIG_articles ... rginia.pdf

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Uranian astrology structures vs. content

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:52 am

There is a point that has been in my mind through this thread but I haven't said specifically. It's the point on which I centered in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1772

I think it important that we distinguish between astrology's structures and its content. The analogy in language is between syntax and vocabulary. Syntax provides the structure of language and we derive meaning from that somewhat independent of how we derive meaning from the words (content) used. A sentence is like a mathematical formula, it has structure independent of what value is given to the variables (words).

So you can study language breaking syntax and vocabulary into separate streams. You can study mathematical relationships either with explicit values (arithmetic) or, ignoring the actual meanings, with only the relationship of variables (algebra), the first being in the form of 1 + 3 = 4 and the other in the form of x + y = z.

Similarly, in astrology we have fundamental structures that are distinctive from the assigned meanings of things. (I have outlined this in the link above.) For example, the idea of planets is a structure - their existence as astrological realities is independent of what meaning we assign to each planet. The meanings may evolve over time (and they will - with sociological changes, or just from astrologer to astrologer) but the idea of (say) Jupiter being an important factor is more persistent factor. Same with signs: Knowing that the celestial sphere is divided into twelve lunes based on equal division of the ecliptic measured from a certain Sidereal point is a more fundamental idea than (say) "knowing what Sagittarius means."

The same is true with Uranian astrology. I am hoping those interested will take away the syntactical elements of this thread and not worry too much about the "vocabular."

BTW, Roger Jacobson did title his book The Language of Uranian Astrology. He got that he was playing with words :)
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:05 am

SteveS wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am
Jim, here is another example of Uranian Astrology involving Supreme Court without AA birth times. Your opinion?

http://uraniansociety.com/USIG_articles ... rginia.pdf
I scanned the article quickly - I can't afford to devote that much eye use to it, I'd be there for an hour or two and physically depleted at the moment (not because of the article but because of my eye condition). My first impression was that I wouldn't have used the wedding chart to examine the Supreme Court's actions, I'd have used when their decision was announced; nonetheless, hey, there are a lot of possible charts to consider and this was her article so, sure, it's worth a look.

As I wrote in Chapter 31 (current edition) of Sidereal Mundane Astrology, the decision came down June12, 1967, 10:00 AM (or soon thereafter), Washington, DC. The chart for that blessed decision occurred as Moon rose in Cancer, a Venus-Jupiter conjunction squared MC, Sun squared Uranus (but no shortage of argument with Mercury square Mars). - I know these remarks are almost indifferent to the article, but they are what I have to offer this morning. Here's a 90°wheel that makes the basic elements (including more than I've said) leap off the page.
Loving Dial.jpg
Adding the TNP makes it more questionable in my opinion. Hades with the rising Moon (though I imagine Witte would have had racially prejudicial epithets to cover that). Cupido and Poseidon are exactly with Mars, which is more contentious to happiness but at least describes a battle over beliefs. VP+Apollon is rather interesting for "to cause to spread out and distribute around the world.: But mostly I think the basic non-TNP elements shown in the dial above describe this event brilliantly.
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:16 am

Thanks Jim---rest your eyes. :) I just took a look at Hades (Solar Arc, Transits, SSR) for Trump, and Hades afflicts him with partile aspects involving Moon-Mercury combos. I will take Witte's book: "Rules for Planetary Pictures" and later offer his keywords for delineating Trump's 2020 Election.

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:04 pm

Trump's SSR Moon 13,22 PI
Trump's SSR Hades 13,54 Gem

Witte's Moon + Hades keywords in the context of predicting a Prez Election:
Hours full of anguish. Hour of a fated ordeal. People who are victims.
Trump's Natal Mercury 14,52 Gem
Trump's SSR Hades 13,54 Gem

Witte's Mercury + Hades:
To err or make mistakes. To be silent with shame. To be sad or laconic. Hidden thoughts. Ugly thinking. Stupid, malicious, vicious, drastic way of thinking.
Trump's d. Hades 12,35 Gem
Trump's Natal Neptune 11,51 Virgo

Witte's Neptune + Hades:
Damages through error. Deception. Lack of lucidity.
Transiting Hades on election day 15,33Rx Gem
Transiting Venus on election day 13,36 Virgo

*This is the first time I have plugged in Hades as a Planet with Solarfire. And remember, I am posting this under a speculative topic. If Trump wins this election I will never ever plug Hades into any more calculations :lol: . Actually, Hades is all over Trump for this election (if I have not erred)—even more so than the very malefic t. Saturn to his Natal. If I understand Uranian astrology with their TNP Hades--there is no way Trump wins this election--at least legitimately :) .

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:26 pm

An aside - not widely known (or, I should say, nobody around who remembers it first hand and it's rarely mentioned): Witte only came up with the first four TNPs. The second four were Rudolph: Witte rejected them. (I don't know whether he wanted sole claim, or simply disagreed.)

FWIW.
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:51 pm

Jim wrote:
An aside - not widely known (or, I should say, nobody around who remembers it first hand and it's rarely mentioned): Witte only came up with the first four TNPs. The second four were Rudolph: Witte rejected them. (I don't know whether he wanted sole claim, or simply disagreed.)
Thanks Jim--I think Michael Feist article on "“The Origins of Uranian Astrology” found at this link covers your words above.

http://uraniansociety.com/USIG_articles ... _feist.pdf

I have ordered several of their Lecture Tapes, one being “The 12 Commandments of Alfred Witte” by Gary Christen. Hopefully, I can get permission to post some content about these 12 Commandments of Alfred Witte. I also hope to do some possible business with Michael Feist, mainly for my learning curve with Uranian Astrology.

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:07 pm

FWIW:
With the aid of a Virtual Disk that Michael Feist allowed me to borrow (download) and the recent acquirement of Alfred Witte's book “Rules for Planetary—Pictures, for the first time in my history of studying astrology, I can now clearly see with “Planetary Pictures” (Midpoints) which explains to my astrological mind:

Why I was thrust into a world of markets/trade at one point in my life without any formal training/background.

I was able to do this with Michael's Virtual Disk by simply clicking on my r Jupiter-Asc points to give me a structured midpoint tree for Jupiter/Asc involving my Mars/Apollon = Jupiter/Asc. Witte's keywords for Mars + Apollon:
Generous way of acting. Peaceful, scientific trade activity. Successful activity. Activity is expanded and enlarged. Rising of the market.
For Mars/Apollon =Asc:
Activity working with others in trade, commerce or science
For Mars/Apollon =Jup:
Financial gains in trade, commerce, industry and or science.
(Not personally--but for a small company as an employee)

What peaks my interest is Witte appears to have discovered something to do with a speculative Apollon with rising market/commerce activity. Yea, I know, astronomically there is no Apollon. But relative to my life, this is the only astrological factor (according to Witte) I have seen which directly explains to my life my trade activity with “rising markets” at a brief time in my life. I want to at least explore possible relationships with McWhirter's NYSE r Chart with Apollon. I also discovered Feist has friends in Hoover, Alabama, and one of my wife's best friends has lived in Hoover the entire time my wife has known her. A nice coincidence. We are going to try and get together for lunch if the time is ever right for us.

Michael Feist is a seasoned Uranian Astrologer with strong experience in specialized Uranian computer programs. This allows me a beginning to possibly see/understand much more easily key axis in my Natal Chart involving midpoint structures. If you ever find yourself with time to squander, Uranian astrology is kinda cool to explore/study, at least when you are bored/retired with nothing to do like me. Michael is going to let me download his Uranian program “AstologicPC free, and only pay him if I deem worth the 149 Euro price.

Anyway—at least something new for me to investigate/explore shuttered at home with this damnation Covid-19.

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The 90 Degree Dial

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:38 pm

Steve found a wonderful thing and gave it to me (thanks, Steve!) - a beautiful vintage 1970s era metal 90 degree dial. Here id is mounted on the multi-ring hard board. I'm going to show you later how to use it off the board, but it's worth a picture to show you this the way it originally was sold.
20200706_173253.jpg
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:22 pm

An important advantage of the hard metal disk, though, as that you don't need any special chart forms. You can use it on a blank sheet of paper (a hard template for drawing the circle) and then, with the metal disk in place, position the planets. You can hen look at it alone or place the dial back on the paper to find midpoints, solar arcs, etc.

Here is my chart drawn on a blank piece of paper with the 90° metal dial.
20200706_181742.jpg
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:34 pm

SteveS wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:07 pm
With the aid of a Virtual Disk that Michael Feist allowed me to borrow (download) and the recent acquirement of Alfred Witte's book “Rules for Planetary—Pictures, for the first time in my history of studying astrology, I can now clearly see with “Planetary Pictures” (Midpoints) which explains to my astrological mind:

Why I was thrust into a world of markets/trade at one point in my life without any formal training/background.

I was able to do this with Michael's Virtual Disk by simply clicking on my r Jupiter-Asc points to give me a structured midpoint tree for Jupiter/Asc involving my Mars/Apollon = Jupiter/Asc. Witte's keywords for Mars + Apollon:
Generous way of acting. Peaceful, scientific trade activity. Successful activity. Activity is expanded and enlarged. Rising of the market.
I fear I have given you your first balloon of heroin. :twisted:

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with these or that you won't find value in the TNPS, just that it's addictive and you might to a little crazy.

But let's at least get the orbs right. On a 90° dial, your Mars/Apollon is 26°54'. Your Jupiter is 29°42', Asc 27°55', Ju/As 28°49'. The only one of these that is almost within a degree is 1°01' from your Ascendant, which is definitely close enough! I wouldn't count the almost 2° orb to Jupiter.
For Mars/Apollon =Asc:
Activity working with others in trade, commerce or science
So there ya go!

Don't miss, though, your exact Asc-Kronos square.

You're at least going to have fun with this, I can tell.
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Steve's natal horoscope - Uranian - 90° dial

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:46 pm

Steve's Uranian dial.jpg
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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Soft Alpaca » Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:31 am

It is aesthetically pleasing most definitely. I don't remember anything particularly interesting about my Uranian chart, but I can't recall if it actually added enrichment to the langue I already know in my chart. Perhaps the Apollon/Posiden=MC?

Also Zeus (channeled direct (creative) energy) sq my Sun and AC (Ego and environment). Doesn't this just tell me basically the same thing as having a rising sun?

Now I did find Wittes planet in sign interpretations, and actually they are pretty great.

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by SteveS » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:09 pm

Jim wrote:
I fear I have given you your first balloon of heroin.
 
:) I hear you Jim. Every since you started this topic, I have just been going with the flow of things seeing where it leads me with possible new discoveries with my natal and other things mundanely. So far, it has led me to Michael Feist and there are nice synchronicities occurring with our communications. The main thing, between you and Michael, I already know I am going to learn new things with the Uranian system. :)

Jim wrote:
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with these or that you won't find value in the TNPS, just that it's addictive and you might to a little crazy.
Yes, I can see where it could become addictive :roll: . Right now, I am exploring the TNPS slowly with my own personal life. I think the main way I will see if they have anything to tell me is through their Solar Arc hits. I have already seen what appears to be a huge d MC 180 Hades with Biden's Natal (your observation for a correct time) with the tragic death of his first wife and one year old daughter in Dec 1972. I now am beginning to see/understand the possibilities that Hades has to do with unusual tragic death experiences. My beloved sister died tragically on Sept 11 1971 when a drunk driver hit her and her horse as they were crossing a bridge. It ripped my heart out and put me in a hellish place! I looked at my Solar Arcs for 1971 and immediately Hades was involved. d Saturn 135 r Hades May 2 1971; d Moon 135 r Saturn Oct 27 1971, for another example of equal distancing with the Uranian system.

Hades does not have to be about death for every case, but it appears it is a very hellish malefic factor.

Jim wrote:
But let's at least get the orbs right. On a 90° dial, your Mars/Apollon is 26°54'. Your Jupiter is 29°42', Asc 27°55', Ju/As 28°49'. The only one of these that is almost within a degree is 1°01' from your Ascendant, which is definitely close enough! I wouldn't count the almost 2° orb to Jupiter.
Jim, I made a mistake here. I have been engrossed with so many e-mails to Michael with all my questions, I asked him if there was one TNP which had a lot to do with markets and he led me to Ma-Apollon-Jupiter for a rising market. I though he meant for my natal chart but I think now he meant mundanely. This really peaks my interest for more exploration mundanely with markets.

Jim, Michael noted and stated this:
On 18 January 2020, in my lecture at the study centre Hamburg School, I pointed out the striking position of Kronos = Hades = Nodes. With the spreading of the corona epidemic, this position has again gained special attention, because Hades stands for "disease" and Nodes for "contacts". Together with Kronos in the 10th Earth House, this results in the phrase "the above average (KR) contact (NO) disease (HA)," which is significant for the "world/public" (10th).
Jim, do you understand how Michael is viewing this mundanely with a specific Uranian mundane chart for the annual year of 2020? If so, could you show us with the dial?

Jim, that vintage 90 degree metal dial belongs in the hands of a vintage astrologer :) . Thanks for the pics.

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Re: Uranian Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:55 pm

SteveS wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:09 pm
I have already seen what appears to be a huge d MC 180 Hades with Biden's Natal (your observation for a correct time) with the tragic death of his first wife and one year old daughter in Dec 1972. I now am beginning to see/understand the possibilities that Hades has to do with unusual tragic death experiences. My beloved sister died tragically on Sept 11 1971 when a drunk driver hit her and her horse as they were crossing a bridge. It ripped my heart out and put me in a hellish place! I looked at my Solar Arcs for 1971 and immediately Hades was involved. d Saturn 135 r Hades May 2 1971; d Moon 135 r Saturn Oct 27 1971, for another example of equal distancing with the Uranian system.
Thus Saturn = Moon/Hades - striking symbolism for tragic loss of a sister.

You got me interested... I looked at my own life and found quite the obvious. I've had Sun, Moon, Ascendant, and Midheaven cross Hades at different points in my life One of these (Moon) occurred with event that was an emotional hard blow. The other three, though, were unusually positive - I mean, quite strikingly positive, like the year I was first published in both American Astrology and Spica, and the spring that I started the most important, successful creative undertaking of my life.

There is something else going with solar arcs and the publication event, though. There are numerous hard-hitting conventional solar arcs, none of which is pleasant. Consider (besides Sun-Hades) that it had Mars-Saturn and Saturn to Venus-Pluto. Yet no serious blow I can remember.
Michael noted and stated this:
On 18 January 2020, in my lecture at the study centre Hamburg School, I pointed out the striking position of Kronos = Hades = Nodes. With the spreading of the corona epidemic, this position has again gained special attention, because Hades stands for "disease" and Nodes for "contacts". Together with Kronos in the 10th Earth House, this results in the phrase "the above average (KR) contact (NO) disease (HA)," which is significant for the "world/public" (10th).
Yes, my Uranian friends have been aghast at how many things have been happening under these recent TNP connections. I am less impressed because it is so easy to find contacts that are reflecting of powerful tragic events. Nonetheless, Node-Hades does make sense for this "contact sickness."
Jim, do you understand how Michael is viewing this mundanely with a specific Uranian mundane chart for the annual year of 2020? If so, could you show us with the dial?
I don't know what chart he is using. Maybe he's just talking about Node-Hades being in such close conjunction early this year?

Looking at your "favorite" day of this year so far - 2/20/20 when the market began to cave as COVID-19 was coming into awareness and airlines began to shut down - we have several aspects on the 90° dial. Node-Hades is one of those. Another for that exact day is Mars-Cupido conjunction, which has no obvious relevant meaning I can see. Uranus opposite Apollon, though, means "spreading by leaps and bounds," which is true enough. Also Sun square Admetos, on which I have neither a pro nor con opinion ("day of death" seems too extreme; "Just say No" wouldn't be correct.)
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