An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

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SteveS
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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by SteveS » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:00 pm

Thanks Jim, Arena, & Jupe for your thoughts.

I had to order a new (3rd one in my life) Ebertin book 'Combination of Stellar Influences (COSI),' because I had worn out my second COSI with pages falling out. This is a new edition with many new footnotes I have never seen from Ebertin's past editions. Last night I noted with these new Ebertin footnotes:
Venus = Sun/Neptune has been found frequently in cases of kidney disease, pg 99.

I have a natal direct Sun/Neptune = Venus (1,59). This orb is wider than the orbs I have been working with—but still interesting.

Also, another footnote on page 98:
Sun/Neptune seems to relate to bad blood conditions and blood diseases generally.
And another important footnote for my kidney problems, pg 182:
Venus/Saturn = Moon has often been found in connection with kidney disease.
I have a natal indirect midpoint of Venus/Saturn = Moon (0,22)

So, for the first time in my life, I now see strong astrological evidence for a cause for my kidney disease from an author who has my ultimate respect for his lifelong research into the field of astrology. I have just e-mailed my new astrological discoveries to Ashley, my acupuncturist-- new Doctor.

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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:02 pm

Which version is your new copy of COSI?

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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by SteveS » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:06 pm

Jupe asked:
Which version is your new copy of COSI?
It says the "current printing" of my new edition was 2004, which is many years after my other two editions.

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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:19 pm

SteveS wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:00 pm
I had to order a new (3rd one in my life) Ebertin book 'Combination of Stellar Influences (COSI),' because I had worn out my second COSI with pages falling out.
I'd ordered one of those newer ones and used it for a while until I found my two falling-apart older ones, then I gave Marion the new one and went back to holding the pages together by hand,
This is a new edition with many new footnotes I have never seen from Ebertin's past editions. Last night I noted with these new Ebertin footnotes:
These are from the original Supplement that was also out in the early to mid '70s. Decades ago I copied the supplement by hand into my working copy. I was glad to see that they had included that content in the AFA edition, I just wasn't happy that they had failed to keep the original strict page layout (which is why I was eager to give up my newer one).
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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:27 pm

There's a lot in the introduction (pages 1 - 40) including a bibliography which I think it also from the supplement.

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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by SteveS » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:48 pm

I never knew there was an original supplement to the earlier printings of COSI.

My regular Doctor tells me the fastest growing segment of the vast American Health Care systems are Dialysis Clinics. Ashley, my Acupuncturists, tells me Chinese Medicine considers the Kidney's the most important organs in the body—not the Heart. She says poor Kidney functions will eventually lead to Heart problems.

Jim,
Would you happen to have any of your Kidney GFR #'s from past blood test results---pre-keto diet, with newer GFR #'s after keto diet???

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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:01 pm

Steve, all I know is my numbers were always normal - no irregularities. So I never took particular note of them.

I just found last September's lab results (after over a year on keto). GFR was 95. I'm pretty sure it was always in that range. - Confirming the consistency, I just found the report from a year earlier and it was also 95, about 4 months after starting keto. (I don't have anything earlier than that.)
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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:16 am

Thanks Jim--this helps me a-lot for making possible future decisions adapting to my kidney problems.

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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:15 pm

SteveS wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:00 pm
Venus = Sun/Neptune has been found frequently in cases of kidney disease, pg 99.

I have a natal direct Sun/Neptune = Venus (1,59). This orb is wider than the orbs I have been working with—but still interesting.

Also, another footnote on page 98:
Sun/Neptune seems to relate to bad blood conditions and blood diseases generally.
And another important footnote for my kidney problems, pg 182:
Venus/Saturn = Moon has often been found in connection with kidney disease.
I have a natal indirect midpoint of Venus/Saturn = Moon (0,22)
Steve, these are great quotes and remind me of questions of medical astrology I've pondered for 40 years. I'll try to state it concisely. (These bullet points will give questions than answer.)
  • There are two different models of attaching body parts to astrological signs. They are 180° apart.
  • The first we can call the "Aries = head" system. It's what most astrology books teach. In this system, Libra is associated (among other things) with the kidneys.
  • The second we can call the "Libra = head" system. Fagan discovered this: Once he realized that the earliest sign-linked house systems were based on Libra rising, he realized that the body part assignments were flipped 180° and that the sign symbolism fit the flipped model better in more or less all cases, e.g., the organs of balance are in the head (= Libra), while the Aries glyph literally looks like body parts historically assigned to Libra, e.g., buttocks, uterus, and the kidney-urinary tracts.
  • I have found that physical ailments that can be linked to a specific body part are nearly always linked to the Sidereal placements (Moon, malefics, etc.) in the "Libra = head" model, seeming to confirm Fagan's proposal. For example serious life-altering back injuries more likely show a Leo Moon than Aquarius, while circulatory issues more likely are Aquarius (and so forth).
  • And yet, based on planetary rulerships, when planets (and their aspects) show an affliction, the systems affected seem to match the "Aries = head" system. Heart afflictions are usually Sun (i.e., Leo), even though Aquarius seems more linked to the heart and circulation than Leo. Breathing afflictions are usually Mercury (i.e., Gemini), even though Sagittarius seems more linked to the lungs and bronchi than Gemini. And so forth.
The last two bullet points state the problem: With kidney problems, based on sign models, I would expect Aries luminaries and malefics (not Libra) to be the culprit. On the other hand, my observation (and what you cite from Ebertin's research) is that if it isn't a sign-placement issue but, rather, is an afflicted planet, the afflicted planet will be Venus.

I don;t have a hard answer, but I have a soft answer I'll throw out. Mostly, though, I just wanted to stir some thought on the question.

I should mention in poreliminary that proponents of both models say that there is "reciprocal action," meaning that few people who have studied the question are entirely surprised when the symbolism seems to flip, when what you expect from, say, Virgo suddenly flips and shows in Pisces. There is some sense in which the opposites are linked (I've sometimes thought acupuncture meridians might help solve this mystery). But, anyway, with that caveat, here is my current theory about what resolves this seeming contradiction...

We are used to thinking of a planet in the sign of its body-part as showing a vulnerability, e.g., Mars in Sagittarius for chronic bronchial inflammation, which matches the "Libra = head" theory of Sagittarius (not Gemini) "ruling" the upper extremities and upper chest, including the bronchial tubes. Perhaps, though, these body parts are all naturally Gemini, but Sagittarius as the anti-Gemini is where weakness in Gemini matters is shown? Similarly, Aquarius would be more common for cardio-vascular problems (with its beautiful system of two-streams of flooding pumping through the body) but (under this theory) that's not because "Aquarius rules the heart" but because Leo rules the heart and Aquarius, therefore, as the anti-Leo shows an area of "Leo vulnerability" or heart-circulation vulnerability?

I like the theory only because it ironically solves the seeming contradiction I documented above. On the other hand, I dislike the theory because it seems contrived (it is contrived - I contrived it :)) and doesn't match the feel of how other astrological matters operate. But it might be right (or, then again, not).

That is, if Venus "rules" the kidneys (as evidence suggests it does), then Venus afflictions could show kidney afflictions (as seems to be the case in your chart) and we would expect Venus-like parts of the zodiac to show the same thing. But it doesn't. You have Jupiter rising in Libra, very strong, that one would expect to give unusual strength and protection to the kidneys. (I don't think the 0°08' trine from Mars would affect that.) Or, to take another example, with your Mars in Gemini and my Mars in Sagittarius, we would expect that you would have respiratory inflammation problems, not me: and, while I have long had allergy-inflaming asthma-like symptoms, as far as I know you have not: another example of Sagittarius, not Gemini ruling the bronchi.

The theory might, nonetheless, be that the signs per the "Aries = head" model show healthy functioning and the opposite signs (those that match the "Libra = head" model are the anti-signs that show a vulnerability. In this theory, instead of you have unusual protection from the kidneys with Jupiter rising in Libra, it would show that you are at risk of eventually dying (hopefully, far into the future) from kidney problems due to Aries on Descendant.

This, if true, does potentially tie into some other astrological observations. For example, on a purely psychological, behavioral point of view we can say that people have shadow-issues or personality imbalances reflected in opposite signs, e.g., that an Aries has "Venus problems" because of the under-developed Venus side, or Pisces has "Mercury problems," etc.

This was partly stream of consciousness aka rambling. :)
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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by SteveS » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:11 am

Jim wrote:
There are two different models of attaching body parts to astrological signs. They are 180° apart.
The first we can call the "Aries = head" system. It's what most astrology books teach. In this system, Libra is associated (among other things) with the kidneys.
Jim, Ashley, pertaining to Chinese Medicine has taught me: First and foremost: The Kidneys are the most important organs in the body—not the heart.

When I first became aware of my Kidney disease diagnosed by Western Medicine and then realized the importance of this 'outstanding incident' SLR on Nov 28, 2018, I knew I had to seek 'alternative' health systems because of my natal Uranus partile cnj my SLR MC. In other words: If it had not been for my knowledge/understandings in the field of Sidereal Astrology stemming from Jim's teachings for Return Charts, I doubt very seriously my conscious/intuition would have made an appointment with Ashley. This one 'outstanding incident' SLR, IMO, probably has added quality years to my life. I had to wait until Jan 7th for an appointment with Ashley, with the fundamental reason being Ashley's business is backed-up with a long-line of patients through great word of mouth, which is the best advertisement possible. In other words: Chinese Medicine is curing people's ailments, where Western Medicine has been failing these same people/patients for curing their ailments.

Jim wrote:
This was partly stream of consciousness aka rambling.
 

Jim, I understand exactly where you are coming from with your 'consciousness aka rambling' about astrology associated with parts of the body.

Now, allow me to offer some of my 'consciousness aka ramblings' tied back in to the astrological signs and body parts/organs. IMO, we have to ask ourselves WHY Ebertin's research proved out that Sun/Nep = Ve showed a strong correlation for Kidney disease??? (BTW, it is my understanding that Ebertin Orb allowances for Midpoints were 1 and ½ degrees except for personal points which were allowed 2 degrees.) So, Ebertin would have been able to tell me I was susceptible for encountering Kidney problems at some point in my life with my Sun/Nep =Venus (1,59 orb).

Ebertin's Sun/Nep midpoint is very clear to me, simply because we know that Neptune has to do with possible'weakening' life principles in a malefic manner with all aspects in the field of astrology. Neptune in Sidereal Astrology is generally associate with malefic action. And we know with the body/health, the Sun has to do with the health 'constitutions' of our bodies. So, when strictly focusing on Sun/Nep with our bodies/health, we see some type of possible 'weakening' principles.

Now some of my astrological 'ramblings' for Venus having to do with the Kidneys:

At about the same time in my life when I encountered dangerously low GFR Kidney numbers with my blood-test results, I started encountering severe BALANCE problems with certain dizzy spells. The name of Ashley's Acupuncture Business is “The Balancing Point!!! Ashley told me that all 'balancing' problems with our bodies stems from problems with the Kidneys. In other words our Kidneys are out of BALANCED! When we look at the signs of the Zodiac starting from Aries, which BTW, is when the Earth is BALANCED with the Sun from an astronomical position, with equal/balanced length day/night; we count 180 degrees from Aries, and we arrive at sign of LIBRA ruled by VENUS!!! The grand symbolic icon for Libra are the SCALES, telling us their is a cosmic principle something to do with BALANCE. Where is the second BALANCED point in the Zodiac pertaining to the astronomical position of our Earth with the Sun with equal day/night?? Why-its Libra of course, with Venus ruling Libra. So imo, we may have a very good cosmic reason WHY Ebertin discovered through his exhausted research in 'Cosmobiology' why Venus is associated with Kidney disease combo with Sun/Neptune, hence Sun/Nep = Venus =Kidney Disease. So, I was born with high(er) % for developing Kidney disease sometime in my life with my direct midpoint of Sun/Neptune =Venus. I consider myself lucky the orb is 1,59 and not partile!!! BTW, Ashley completely cured me of my severe BALANCE problems, I now have absolutely no problems with my BALANCE. And, more importantly, Ashley is improving my Kidney GFR numbers keeping me away from the terrifying option of Dialysis in order to live!!! In fact, If I had to face Dialysis, I would choose not to live, for I know with other people in my life the terrible living conditions they had to go through living the last few months—couple of years of their life with Dialysis. Western Medicine may prolong our lives, but at times, it is doing it in a manner with very poor living health conditions. Given an option, I am more interested in living a quality shorter life through health than a longer suffering health life!!!!

Jim, truly I appreciate your astrological knowledge with your 'consciousness aka ramblings'--for it greatly contributed to my 'rambling' feedback as to a possible WHY Ebertin equated through his exhausted research the midpoint of Sun/Nep =Venus for higher % for Kidney Disease. Probably, all knowledges stems, first, from the 'ramblings' of our minds/consciousness.

Bottom Line: IMO, Libra/Venus indeed has something to do cosmically with the Kidneys in our Bodies being in harmony (Venus)---BALANCE!!!

I have much more to post in this thread pertaining to the great health results of people (family/friends) I referred to Ashley with her knowledge of Chinese Medicine—it is blowing my mind when it comes to Western Medicine vs Chinese Medicine!!!

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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:07 am

SteveS wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:11 am
When we look at the signs of the Zodiac starting from Aries, which BTW, is when the Earth is BALANCED with the Sun from an astronomical position, with equal/balanced length day/night...
Steve, that's only true Tropically. (LOL, old habits die hard!) Ditto your remark about the "other balancing point" at 0° Libra.

The equinoxes Sidereally are currently in early Virgo-Pisces. (You knew that :).)

BTW, I totally agree with your analysis of why the Sun/Neptune midpoint has the attributed meaning it has. My ramblings were more centered on the piece of Venus' demonstrated connection to kidney issues. I'm not persuaded, though, about the larger orbs, and think that the more important marker among midpoints is Venus/Saturn = Moon 0°33', which is also in the same degree as Ur/As and Ju/Ur.

The equation of balance problems with kidney problems is indeed fascinating! That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to find in "reciprocal action" between, say, the two ends of the Aries-Libra axis, head (where the organs of balance lie) and kidneys (among other parts).
Given an option, I am more interested in living a quality shorter life through health than a longer suffering health life!!!!
I definitely get you on that one!
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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by SteveS » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:14 pm

Jim wrote:
Steve, that's only true Tropically.
:) I hear you Jim. I would be interested in your explanation why Ebertin's research associated Venus with Kidney disease, yet he paid little attention to signs with the bulk of his great work. I guess at heart if Ebertin had to choose a Zodiac he chooses the Tropical, but it really matters not to me for I know certain truths of the Sidereal Z vs certain non-truths of the Tropical Z.

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Re: An upcoming 'outstanding incident' SLR

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:55 pm

SteveS wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:14 pm
I would be interested in your explanation why Ebertin's research associated Venus with Kidney disease, yet he paid little attention to signs with the bulk of his great work.
I'm still sure it came from the traditional Libra association. The fact that he mostly ignored signs is separate from the fact that Venus had come to be associated with the kidneys. (And, of course, it would be a great error for us to ignore signs now that we know the right ones!)

But more importantly, the answer is in the word "research." I don't think this was a theoretical finding but, rather, an observation based on case studies.
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