Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:20 pm

Being at the center of things, what does that do? It's not like being smart or fast or violent, it just sounds more like a random trait than a skill or inclination. Ie how do i work with/what do i do with it?

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:41 pm

Well, for one thing, it gives you a unique perspective on how groups of humans function, and the relationships among people in the group. Some people see groups from the edges in. You see them from the middle out.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:13 pm

Yes, this is true, however I believe (it's a close call) that I am am introvert, I told my mother at the reunion today to suck it up and hold her sisters baby (who called my mom a junkie, pulled some shit at there nanas funeral involving my family and was drinking during their fathers service). My mom did end up holding it after she blew a gasket on me, I had to steal one of her ciggerets and take it down bc my mother never gets loud, it's a force of nature when she does.

They are built as a family on chaos and quarrel, which I can handle the chaos, it's the emotional energy and the social situations that hit me like a train.

Yes I know this sounds like excuses excuses.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:19 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:13 pm
...however I believe (it's a close call) that I am am introvert...
Which means what, exactly, in terms of this discussion?
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:28 pm

It's great being able to see the group's inside out and all, but I don't want to be there, it's exhausting.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:43 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:28 pm
It's great being able to see the group's inside out and all, but I don't want to be there, it's exhausting.
Got it.

THese experiences need not have that much to do with other people. I wanted to use that example of an obvious instant of clear centricity.
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:01 pm

Thanks Jim, I did understand that. J sad I believe was trying to help answer my question about application of this trait or how being solar/centricty can be used as a skill. It's not like a mercury dominant person <just using this as an example, yes I know I have an expressive one myself> where you can actively see, utilise, and refine skills. I don't know how to utilize, and refine something like warmth and centricty.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:04 am

Remind me again if someone could why our strongest or most expressive planets signs don't matter as much as our Sun-Moon-Mars signs?

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:52 pm

Folding Eris into the mix:
[Looking at astrology as probablity]

Sun:angular and dignified
Eris:angular (possible aspect to luminary)
Mercury: angular

Jupiter: dignifed and via luminary

Pluto:via luminary (possibly dignified)
Saturn:via luminary

Order of actual expression:
Pluto,Sun,(Eris),Mercury

How I wonder do i mesh together these energies when only Eris and the Sun share a (probable) connection?

Also how do i work up a general Sun-Eris summary (of course this is theoretical, but to me most all astrology is.)

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:02 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:52 pm
Also how do i work up a general Sun-Eris summary (of course this is theoretical, but to me most all astrology is.)
This would presume that we actually have some evidence that Eris has a significance and that we know the nature of that significance.

Neither of those is true. At best, we have a guess that it might be significant + a few vague inferences that match some pieces of a mythological profile. Relying on such things would be bad astrology.

It's complicated further here because it's a mundane aspect and we don't have reliable confirmation that mundane aspects are important in natal charts.

FWIW, from examining a group of people with close Sun-Eris ecliptical aspects, my preliminary summary was, "No clear pattern. For example, among politicians there are murderous tyrants and legendary peace figures, plus two Supreme Court justices with highly divergent points of view."
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:10 pm

I had a theory, it was a nutty one. Eris disrupts, therefore having Eris aspecting something has the probability to break apart established patterns. Ie Eris's only pattern is that it has no pattern, meaning that whatever it touches could have an endless varity of effects, or no difference at all.

[And if a trait for a sign can be "not agreeing with these descriptions" then I don't see why Eris couldn't mean "possible disestablishment of patterns"].

However there is no way to test this that I can think of.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:22 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:10 pm
Eris disrupts
If you mean Eris in astrology, then you don't know this is true. You're making it up based on something else named "Eris."

You might be right or wrong, of course, but what we do know is that you're making it up to fit a preconception.
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:32 pm

Also i believe I know why I'm struggling with Sagittarius Jim. As well as the Jupiter/Solar archetypes

Leo Moon
Emotions intertwined with pride. Strong, noble, proud, natural leader, courageous, confident, practical, effective, indomitable. Dramatic; seldom pretentious. Gregarious (court of friends & admirers). Entertainer. Discriminating in romance. Needs warm, affectionate interaction; may retain aloof mask. Business over sentiment.

Sag Sun
Social elitism, aristocracy. Excellence, quality. Higher & higher, ambition, travel. Judges self & others, may fail own standards. Right-wrong, reward-punishment, belief- & values-driven. Respects continuity of culture & social rituals. Preserves status quo, heritage, myth when possible. Loyal to tribe. Complacent affection.


Pluto from the crib sheet.
WHAT IS COLORED WHEN THE PLANET IS ASPECTED: “Get away from it all” urge; need to be independent of cultural trappings & labels; search for existential meaning.
HOW A PLANET IT ASPECTS IS AFFECTED: “All or nothing:” strongly intensifies or thoroughly diminishes; strains. Creates powerful need that planet’s expression be free of others’ arbitrary limitations.
[Taken as a general gist]

Here is what's left from Plutos effects on the luminary signs descriptions .

Sun
Excellence, quality. Higher & higher, ambition, travel. Judges self & others, may fail own standards. Right-wrong, reward-punishment, belief- & values-driven. Complacent affection.

Moon
Emotions intertwined with pride. Strong, noble, proud, courageous, confident, practical, effective, indomitable. Seldom pretentious. Discriminating in romance. Needs warm, affectionate interaction; may retain aloof mask. Business over sentiment.

So it would make sense that I would have quarrels with my signs because my chart has it's own contradictions. I just don't know how to work with them yet.
Last edited by ScarletDepths on Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:34 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:22 pm
ScarletDepths wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:10 pm
Eris disrupts
If you mean Eris in astrology, then you don't know this is true. You're making it up based on something else named "Eris."

You might be right or wrong, of course, but what we do know is that you're making it up to fit a preconception.
I see your point Jim! I read somewhere Eris was linked to victory and that is seemingly unrelated. [I'm sure they perceived it from somewhere too].

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Lance » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:39 pm

So it would make sense that I would have quarrels with my signs because my chart has it's own contradictions. I just don't know how to work with them yet.
Forgive me for jumping in, but I've been watching you struggle with this for a while. I just wanted to say I think you're really on to something with this line of thought.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:51 pm

Please do jump in. It's a mud puddle in here but I like mud showers. :)

I have to say that I let Pluto romp around a lot, however it romps through my signs too and I loose all want for social anything. Where does that leave my Sun and Moon signs and well as my dignified Sun and Jupiter? Half way to useless, they all depend on social interactions, promoting centricty, normality, social structure, none of which I remotely care about.

Also makes sense why I agree with my Mars sign, it isn't as focused on social interactions and norms (past the appearance).

Which brings me to say (to Jim) that I apologize for doubting what Sagittarius and Leo mean without first accounting for the contrary traits in my chart.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:29 pm

Random note. I can be a bold and stubborn person, also i can argue. However espicaly in matters of family (when I can't argue or say no without risking things like a loan cosigner for my college schooling) I most literally feel like a passive hand bag being tossed around. I am still under someone else's roof so I understand some respect is due, however I'm not the sit down and shut up type, yet lately that has been occurring.

Any advice, any astrological connection? [I don't mind it as long as they don't infringe on things concerning my own health choices].

Also how do i take up less psychic(?) space?

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Lance » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:03 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:29 pm
Random note. I can be a bold and stubborn person, also i can argue. However espicaly in matters of family (when I can't argue or say no without risking things like a loan cosigner for my college schooling) I most literally feel like a passive hand bag being tossed around. I am still under someone else's roof so I understand some respect is due, however I'm not the sit down and shut up type, yet lately that has been occurring.

Any advice, any astrological connection? [I don't mind it as long as they don't infringe on things concerning my own health choices].
MOON-SATURN
Proud, self-made. Dynamic, hardworking, persistent, self-driving. Encourages growth in others (expects them to do something wor-thy of their abilities). Usually emotionally reserved, private. Definite tendency (often unconscious) to seek total control of situations & relationships. Parent-themed issues (nourishment-deprivation, etc.) to work through. Judgmental (intolerant). Can be pessimistic, distrustful, little self-confidence, passive-aggressive, feeling inferi-or, anxious, depressed. Many enter religious or social work for mixed motives of service, self-immolation, and seeking control.


Also how do i take up less psychic(?) space?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:55 am

Saturn does come easy for me. We each have a psychic footprint the amount if space our psyche takes up. In theory everyone should take up the same amount of space, however some take up more or less. My inerself takes up more than the average person, I'm trying to reduce that.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Veronica » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:26 am

We each have a psychic footprint the amount if space our psyche takes up. In theory everyone should take up the same amount of space, however some take up more or less. My inerself takes up more than the average person, I'm trying to reduce that.
this was a little disturbing to me, on a few levels.

so I will just project this out and see how it fits......

in looking out into the cosmos, we have learned that in outerspace there is all kinds of stuff, from the smallest frozen bacterium to the largest super novas and eveything inbetween......

each "things" takes up the space it needs and the space it is capable of maintaining it autonimity, and its needs fluxuate over time.

what I am hearing from you is that you feel the need to reduce yourself, for some reason (usually the reasons arise from the external stimuli bombarding our senses), and if that is what you feel is necessary then by all means do what you need to do, but I will tell ya, from someone who has shrunk herself on occasion, that to limit yourself in any way is contrary in many ways to what "in theory" is your true nature.

a corset is a fine and dandy thing to put on if you are going to a ball and want to look trim and thin and with a nice booty but they itch and at the end of the night you are relieved when you can throw the dammed thing to the floor and let everything hang out the way nature made it to be.

when I was reading about quincuxes a while back and how they interact on a chart, I was drawn to a video that showed me something called a Galton Board, in which little balls fall into a nice pattern, with the average of them falling in the middle.

falling in the middle is all good and well for some, being average, but the meaning of average, means that some fall wide and some fall short as well.

I don't think you are average, and I think you have a lot of great things about you, as I see your chart, and I wont say it hurts my feelings that you struggle with your chart, but I will say that I hope someday you wont have to struggle so hard and that you see you are more then what your chart says.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:47 pm

Thanks for the concern. Not to look pretty, more like to bring in the energy (I don't like outward flamboyant energy, or centricty for that matter). Alas it may be a matter of what we are rather than what we like. I hope it's leaning toward what we make.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:01 pm

Feeling cold, and cutting. Tired of centricty and being associated with chaos (but mostly drama). Could someone please tell me if this could be due to a transit or just normality of constant interpersonal change that everyone experiences?

I went on a cruise, naturally I was social, but I actively avoided the center of it all, even though it found me. Something snapped the last few days, the social group (4 of us total) pushed me out. Not that i was hurt for being shoved out as much as I felt their pain behind telling me off. [Its ok if I'm a monster but I don't like seeing people I respect be hurt by me].

Naturally after all of that drama I'm people tired. How is everybody else?

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:10 pm

Your long term transit of note is that Saturn is conjoining your Sun. You hould read about this in the Transit section.

I'm curious how you will react to the strongly Pluto themed partial solar eclipse tonight. It should be a dominant effect on you all week.
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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by ScarletDepths » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:12 pm

It's 10pm here. Not sure how it will either as in working 5 days in a row (8 shits) so a 45 hour week [over my 15-20 normally]. Not much time to experince a whole lot. I'm going to a friend's shin dig Sunday in the PM, small group of people and I'll of course actively avoid the center.

I have become rather accepting of my birth chart over the last few days taking in Plutos effect with the uncertain angularity and Eris influence. Also questioning how I feel in a general sense, for once I'm not sure. I can definetly feel others emotions at this time however.

My nerves are defiantly not as bad and I'm not as angry or stressed as usual.

Not sure how my solar energy is going, I've noted that it is there in my personality but much more passive than it should appear (Maybe due it's lack of aspects). Nothing I've found is more personal than my Pluto in this point in my life. Also for whatever reason I'm feeling my Capricorn energy even more so than normal (thus the annoying posts on my Mars in Capricorn thread).

Also feeling apologetic for being argumentative and for appearing overly centered. Sorry for the stress or annoyance I have caused in the past and knowing myself will likely spark in the future (I will try to be more mindful of course).

My intuition says to check Eris transits as well [logic says otherwise of course]. However my intuition has been rather keen lately and I've got hurt recently by ignoring it...

Hope this feeds your curiosity some.

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Re: Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:02 pm

Here are a few scratchy notes about transits to natal Eris. They were casual observations for a short time - please don't presume they are correct (or incorrect or whatever). There may be nothing to it, or it may be like this, or it may be different. But here's what a short exploration threw across my path:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1240
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