When Pluto gets personal

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ScarletDepths
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When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:17 pm

Energy can only be transfered not created or destroyed. If Pluto is the switch for on and off then it must get it's energy from elswhere.

This planet is so slow it's almost silly to think it is personal. However I'm here to talk about when it does get personal. I've found a level of freedom from running away from my sun sign, something non astrological versed people see as Scorpio, and that I once believed was Scorpio too. However it's not the case, it's Pluto through and through. As my only hard aspect to a luminary (despite Jims theory on semi-squares, my moon ss Jupiter is less personal than even my moon trine saturn). My personality is forming to Pluto not my Sun or it's ruler, I realised this is trying to cone up with a personality list mostly my close friends told me what they saw.

[Impatient, moody, brutally honest, cares too much or not at all, violent and sexual, don't know where to draw lines, ambitious/ruthless, I either over do things or i don't don't them at all. I have to make a constant effort to not make people uncomfortable. Charming and possesive. Over protective. Jealous. Weird and odd espicaly in bursts. Wild]

I see so much in here about not knowing boundaries (look at Plutos orbit). It also moves to it's own beat.

Next the on or off, do or don't, which is how people feel about Pluto, they either believe it's something or nothing (in terms of power). Just as i believe pluto needs to habe both support and anti-support for as long as there is a battle Pluto can function in its switch like manor.

Pluto is reblious in that it doesn't care if it's a planet or not. It continues on its path. I need to become like this more, I denounce my Sun sign as my sign, but maybe I'll denounce having a singular sign altogether and just go with a planet rather than trying to convince people I'm more one way than another.

I was so Pluto crazy when I practiced tropical astrology it drove them mad, and not because I honestly thought I was this sexual enigma or dark overlords, but rather because I didn't feel as it was being done a justice. Pluto doesn't care about sex or any of that, I knew it wanted to do it's own thing and every interpretation was so varied from the next it was madness (Pluto however in retrospect doesn't mind this as it keeps it a bigger secret).

I next look at the polarity in all of the planets as each has a match (Mars to Venus for example). Pluto doesn't , it turns things on or off, in its own way it is both yin and yang, male and female, push and pull. In my own way ny mood seongs reflect this, on a daily basis my up ans downs level each other out.

This supports my next theory, Pluto doesn't make energy it simply shifts it, drawing strength from other planets to push like waves throughout a chart. Aries people being ruled by Pluto can openly be a wave conductor for Pluto physicalmy manifesting the waves Pluto makes from the stars to the earth and then they ripple through society like a fire. (Look at Freud and Hitler and the waves they still make to this day.)

I may not be an Aries but as Pluto asoects my moon my emotional waves are the thrown off by Pluto, and I could argue it is in turning up the moon that turns down my sun. However I can't rely on this to always be the case as the energy can go any direction, what I can count on is that Pluto will be the switch to the whole operation.

I think in this case I would say Pluto people are like switches on and off. They are rebellious and like to make waves, they are inherently neutral not aligning with one side or another in most cases as the waves equal out. (Note that they will probably ride the crests of the waves which is why they seem like all or nothing). I think that this up and down could make Pluto people seem bipolar and because they are like this, they would be ostracized, giving them the dark personality that many people mistakenly align with them.

Whether it's a planet or not I will always ride the waves lengths of Pluto.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:16 am

oh that pluto....

My Pluto is nicely placed in Virgo sextile to my moon/Neptune/Jupiter conjunction in Scorpio

My under currents, my deeply help thoughts and ideas of the world are sometimes (often) very hard for me to deal with or accept on a personal level.
I am lost in my own constructed paradigm of the world, and have a hard time like the adage "as above, so Below, as with in so with out" because for me I can easily see things in the micro or macro view and its getting those views to coalesce in real time that puts me at odd with reality.

i have a very dark side, and go to great depths psychologically. Truthfully the things I think scare the hell out of me, and make me think I am a bad person inside. Aileen Wuornos has nothing on me and things that I have thought about doing to people who have hurt others.

When I was a very little girl, my favorite story was about the so-called rape of Persephone. very strange for a little girl to be drawn to that story, and stranger still that I knew the story I was told was a lie. In my heart when I heard the story it felt more like Romeo and Juliet to me, then of some old ugly septer forcing himself on the Virgin. Hades and Hephaestus the most unlovable of all Gods in their pantheon, were loved by Venus and Persephone.

Poor Pluto, so far away from the rest, doing his own thing, not fitting in none of the other outer planets really deal with him much, and the inner ones are so busy with new life and moving around that they barely pay any attention to him. I also think that the Pluto/Venus Conjunction is one of the more powerful conjunctions that happen, in a natal chart, or in a transit because this is the time when the marriage is consummated.

I always thought that pluto as the furthest away, set the tone, the under laying current of an individuals life.
I see a very sexual side to Pluto, not in the physical context, but the much deeper mysteries of life and death themselves, sort of sex.
maybe its like pluto has a say in what primally turns you on or off and acts as a conductor to the rest of the planets.

the two things that i see as a stand out as to why Im not in an orange jump suit, or dead in a ditch is my Aquarius Sun which is square my Scorpio Stellium., and my my Mars Not being influenced by much art all to make me really act on these horrible ideas.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:12 am

Pluto and Saturn both aspect my Leo moon and Pluto and the moon bith aspect the ruler of my Sun. Through and through I can say that Pluto takes my Moon sign and my suns ruler (in Aries) go right off orbit. When most people think Leo they think the artist and the king, when Saggitarius is said they think a teacher and someone in high sociality standard. When people see me they think the killer of the kings and the socially obscure. I don't know why I'm not in prison (it would Probably be for arson) I can say that if someone asks me my sign I'll tell them I'm ruled by Pluto to avoid having to pick one of the signs active in my chart, and to avoid them misinterpreting my nature.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:13 am

I do appreciate your theory on Pluto and sex.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:37 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:12 am
Pluto and Saturn both aspect my Leo moon and Pluto and the moon bith aspect the ruler of my Sun. Through and through I can say that Pluto takes my Moon sign and my suns ruler (in Aries) go right off orbit. When most people think Leo they think the artist and the king, when Saggitarius is said they think a teacher and someone in high sociality standard. When people see me they think the killer of the kings and the socially obscure. I don't know why I'm not in prison (it would Probably be for arson) I can say that if someone asks me my sign I'll tell them I'm ruled by Pluto to avoid having to pick one of the signs active in my chart, and to avoid them misinterpreting my nature.
oh boy

when someone asks you your sun sign and you answer with a planet.....that's some confusion right there. most people dont even know the archetypes of sun signs let alone planets. Good luck with that.

I would think it is safe to say that the reason you are not in jail, is that you are not a criminal and your smart enough to stop yourself from doing stupid self distructive things like burning down a barn.

i gotta admit, reading you talk about your version of astrology is pretty hard to follow for me, and I usually can follow most things being open and flaky myself.

Killer of the Kings? are you Jamie from Game of Thrones? I don't know what you mean to imply by that, or what that title means to you. I think it is not healthy though to think you know what is going on in someones head when they see you, based on your appearance. Fight for your limitations and the are truly yours.
yet I do remember what it was like being a teenager so I get the whole ego/identity/personality formulation you are working through.

I was made by the universe to be a collection of traits that universe needed to have in existance, I am a tool for the uiniverse to expierence and gather information. there is no one in the world like you, who has your specialness, your gifts, your views, your understanding, your love. when I was able to stop struggling with figuring out what the hell is going on in my chart and just flowed with it all and accepted that my perceptions ofmy self are wrong, incomplete, and gettting inmy way of LIVING......well thats when the tables turned.

I dont need to have all the answers. life is mysterious and I dont need to be in the Know, I need to be in the mystery for that is where enthusiams for liviing comes from. I am excited to be the person I am, and I dont need astrology to tell me that I am cool. I need astrology to teach me about Time Management and Organization and relationships so that I can do the best I can to be the best version of myself at all moments.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:38 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:13 am
I do appreciate your theory on Pluto and sex.
I am glad you got something out of that. I had hoped you would.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 am

I think that part of me talking to people is me wanting to confuse them at certain times. I enjoy provoking the mind with extansenstial fire. Burning things down is something I've always like sense I was little.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:51 am

well if that's the case.

I really don't think it is cool at all to talk to deliberately be misread and to misrepresent yourself, try to confuse people. Its self destructive, disserving and deceptive. not a good way to build positive relationships and enjoy life. Sounds like you enjoy creating drama and blowing things out of proportion.
those are things I personally think are cowardice behaviors of bullies who try to distract, disguise and displace responsibility.

and I own those traits and know what games they lead to.

If I was you I would root out those weeds before your bad habits create your destiny.

our astrology does not give us permission to be an arss, it gives us awareness of our arss so that we can rise above our restrictions.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:55 am

I try not to confuse most people actually I have to make a constant effort to not make people skin crawl. I think however the point that I make when I do it to my friends is only to engage a deeper discussion not to mame or hurt. I am self destructive by using vices when in stressed out (I think this is a Capricorn Mars thing). Self destruction runs in my family btw.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:15 am

don't let your families choices be your own.
know thyself.

"Self destruction runs in my family"

do you know what a Pelican is? Do you know how a pelican feeds its young? nudging you gently to google........

self destruction runs in life.

I do understand what you are implying but not saying, and I am sorry that you have that in your life.
My family is Historic for the self-destruct game.....and they try to get me to play again every once in while.
Other peoples choices are out of my control, I can only hope to be in control of my responses and reactions (or Notreactions).
making excuses, placing blame, all those behaviors we use to cope with other peoples bad choices that impact our lives rip us of our own personal power.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:28 am

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:55 am
I am self destructive by using vices when in stressed out (I think this is a Capricorn Mars thing). Self destruction runs in my family btw.
Yup I think it's a Mars in Capricorn thing too. Self-destructive acts are how your family has taught you to behave when things go wrong, but it's not set in stone. You can choose to change that. Think about what's happened that set off a self-destructive behavior in the past and then think about what you could have done that would have worked better. Maybe write it down (helps set the thought in your mind.) Then next time something similar happens, you have options about how you react.

Plutonian reactions, BTW, are usually calm. Not cold and steely, just calm and unruffled.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:03 pm

Can I have an example of a Plutonian reaction. Like when someone dies and I don't react?

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:12 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:03 pm
Can I have an example of a Plutonian reaction. Like when someone dies and I don't react?
The most typical Pluto to reaction is to leave.

It's usually a mistake to think of a single planet in isolation, though. Such reaction opportunities are generally going to be from planetary interactions. Moon with Pluto is quite different form Sun with Pluto, quite different from Mercury with Pluto, utterly different from Mars with Pluto, etc. Each of these individual combinations can be looked up in the interpretation sections of this forum. (And natal patterns are distinctive from transits etc.
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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:59 pm

I have definitely just left things before. I do it frequently I hate to be left myself, probably because I only keep close to things that I care about losing.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:54 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:12 pm
ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:03 pm
Can I have an example of a Plutonian reaction. Like when someone dies and I don't react?
The most typical Pluto to reaction is to leave.

It's usually a mistake to think of a single planet in isolation, though. Such reaction opportunities are generally going to be from planetary interactions. Moon with Pluto is quite different form Sun with Pluto, quite different from Mercury with Pluto, utterly different from Mars with Pluto, etc. Each of these individual combinations can be looked up in the interpretation sections of this forum. (And natal patterns are distinctive from transits etc.
I can vet that one for sure.
Teenage runaway (15/16yr)
moved out of home my senior year in High School
wore out a milion pairs of shoes just getting up and leaving places that i didnt want to be at any more. walked 8miles just this past summer just to get away from drama.

my dad and all my exs will tell you.....when my emotions get to strong for me, its like a black out of feeling, and I just disappear, off to the woods or creek or my books.
It has helped and hindered me. I trust my gut when it says its time to go, that something is going to go down that I dont want to be around. it is very hard on my relationships and does demonstrate a lack of maturity, self control, and makes it difficult for loved ones to trust me and be open with me becasue they are leary of making my supersentivie nature upset.

Craig calls it my signature move.
one minute Im there, and the next .....who knows where, because I do it quietly and calmly.
I just get my stuff together, smile and walk out the door.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:03 pm

I mentally check out. I've ignored people to the point where they could stand in front of me and I e9uldnt even make a micro expression (like I made them invisible to me). I also have walked away many of times mid-arguemnt with people before, because I don't like dealing with it any more. Even now I spend most of my time at home hiding away in my room because I dont want to deal with people.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Veronica » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:31 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:03 pm
I mentally check out. I've ignored people to the point where they could stand in front of me and I e9uldnt even make a micro expression (like I made them invisible to me). I also have walked away many of times mid-arguemnt with people before, because I don't like dealing with it any more. Even now I spend most of my time at home hiding away in my room because I dont want to deal with people.
I spend most all of my time at home to, in my room. Im good with that.
I am not hiding from others though, and I think you may not be either.
Not wanting to bring other peoples drama into your life (dealing with people ususally implies drama, if your having fun with them, you dont say "Dealing with them...") isn't hiding.
I went years with out speaking to several different family memebers, and have limited contact with them to this day, because I refuse to play childish mindgames and manipulations and power struggles, and I refuse to budge on issues I hold close to theart.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:46 pm

Its not hiding I can agree, it's better for everyone's mental state. They know that I'm volatile and I have my mood shifts, I am very aggressive and emotional. I don't have this political climbing drama bull shit Saggitarius Leo nature that makes me so inviting in fact I can come across as frigid as hell.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:29 pm

Another thought came up, not sure to make a new post or not. When Pluto switches on planets [for example my Pluto turns up my Moon] does that planet act more expressive like an angular planet? Or is it's influence more important in say transits and the overall natal chart?

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:05 pm

ScarletDepths wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:29 pm
Another thought came up, not sure to make a new post or not. When Pluto switches on planets [for example my Pluto turns up my Moon] does that planet act more expressive like an angular planet?
Not like that. More a hyper-intensification. For example, the "all" phase of Venus-Pluto is "wants to relate unconditionally, intensely." Mercury-Pluto is "hyper-intensified mind." But this isn't something that comes from an angualr Venus or Mercury respectively.

It's different when a luminary aspects a planet. That IS more like being on an angle. (Interpretations are different, but proximity to angles or close hard aspects to luminaries are the things that activate planets in a significant way.) There's less obvious a sense of the planet working specifically on the "flavor" of the particular luminary, though you can find it. Thus, most of the Moon-Pluto common traits are Pluto traits, although Moon does anchor these more in deep, brooding subconscious patterns more than in ego-definition issues (Sun). (Notice how the boilerplate intertpretation paragraph for Moon-Pluto addresses issues like habits, familiar rootedness, etc. - by overthrowing them.)

With Moon I think we also see intensified reactivity.
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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:23 pm

Intensified reactivity. I can second that one Jim. Well it depends, if you ask me to [redacted] I probably would say ok and ask you to [redacted] and I'll handle it. If you talk crap about my dog I might threaten to [redacted].

It sounds extreme like I'm blowing things out of proportion for just saying that [and it sounds attention seeking] . Rather it is me honestly noting how unhealthy that kind if behavior is?

Is this even close to what you meant by intensified reactivity?
Last edited by ScarletDepths on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:42 pm

Sure. :)
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Re: When Pluto gets personal

Post by ScarletDepths » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:01 pm

Promise I'm not proven crazy and clearly you don't want to/have much to say other than sure (my response may have been very similar).

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