Co-aspects - interpretation resource

Q&A and discussion about Synastry, i.e., relationship analysis through the comparison of two horoscopes.
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Co-aspects - interpretation resource

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 1:30 pm

[This post is a place-holder.]

Sun co-aspects: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=244#p1634
Moon co-aspects: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=244#p1635
Mercury co-aspects: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=244#p1636
Venus co-aspects: http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=244#p1637
Mars co-aspects: http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=244#p1638
Outer Planet co-aspects: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=244#p1639
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Sun co-aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 1:30 pm

SUN-SUN
Recognition/identification: Each person is simultaneously trying to assert the urge to dominate and take charge. An ego clash may result. In the case of business partners it is often fortunate: each person is tuned into exactly what the other is wanting and thinking and their goals and senses of priority are well-matched. Yet they are generally not susceptible to compromise once there are differences. An understanding should be had as to who is really boss. Each should learn to give in to the other without feeling his or her pride so dearly bruised.

SUN-MOON
One of the most favorable interchanges for any type of relationship, especially marriage. There is natural impetus for these two people to get together. (Most people naturally gravitate toward those whose Suns strongly aspect the native's Moon.) Moon is able to take a major interest in Sun's person and adapt to Sun's long-term ambitions. Sun provides Moon with a sense of importance that Moon does not otherwise normally experience.
[ADD: This aspect also can create inequality and hierarchy in a relationship, which often sneaks into romantic relationships (and was part of the historic sense of a "wife's role") or other types of relationships. An insecure Moon sometimes will feel constantly "made less" in the presence of Sun, never ranking as an equal.]
[STATS: An aspect Jung found common among married couples.]
Fagan & Firebrace wrote:When the native's Sun is configured with another's Moon he tends to overlord that person and to push him about. He tells his lunar counterpart what to do and expects him or her to do it. The lunar person would never think of going against his wishes. Yet this is one of the most successful interchanges for partnerships, especially that of marriage.
SUN-MERCURY
Communication is the dominant theme. Sun impels or inspires Mercury to self-expression, or adopts a mentor role. [Edited 9/24/18]

SUN-VENUS
Dear friendships are based on this interchange, though it is not particularly common between married couples; nor is it particularly strong for sexual attraction. A strong sense of camaraderie and companionship exists between them. Venus can love Sun as an individual in his or her own right, and holds Sun in special veneration. Such attention flatters Sun and increases Sun's sense of importance, drawing reciprocation of the deep affection. There are few secrets between these two people. [Edited 9/24/18]
[ADD: The word "veneration" was well-chosen. These often are mentor relationships. In general, "veneration" quite often describes Venus' real feelings toward Sun.]

SUN-MARS
Mars incites Sun to action, not caring to see Sun sit about inactively. This is a strongly physical aspect, common among married couples, but also instills a strong element of competition into any relationship. Mars is greatly inflamed with desire by Sun's presence, perhaps treating Sun as a demigod or some creature deserving special esteem. This naturally inflates Sun's ego. For this reason, the interchange is even common among good friends of the same sex, though Mars is constantly egging Sun to match that image. At its worst, it can be highly combative: if so, Sun usually comes out on top. [Edited 9/24/18]
[STATS: An aspect Jung found common among married couples.]

SUN-JUPITER
A blessed interaspect. Each instinctively, almost unthinkingly, seeks to improve the other's station in life. Each holds the other in great esteem, and is generous with time, interest, and other resources. A relationship based on mutual respect. Among marriage partners, generally means large families - or at least the wish for them. [Edited 9/24/18]

SUN-SATURN
Though particularly common among marriage partners, this interchange is usually disappointing - the purpose of the connection disappointing both parties or the two of them disappointing each other. Typically, Sun disrespect Saturn and thinks of Saturn in a condescending fashion. Yet Sun nonetheless stays close, likely from gaining increased ego-enhancement from self-comparison to Saturn's perceived lowliness. Saturn, envious of Sun's light, may also holds fast, restricting Sun's freedom with jealousies, demands, and threats of separation - threats Saturn never hopes to carry out in reality. [Edited 9/24/18]
[ADD: I have several cases on file where this aspect showed some form of business arrangement as a basis of a sexual relationship: for example one "arranged" marriaged, a case where someone was promoting a minor celebrity and sleeping with him, another where two people were training partners in a sex surrogate training, another where a sex partner had been provided as a courtesy during a business trip, etc. Interestingly, no examples of outright prostitution; and in most of these examples there was genuine affection along with the 'convenience' or 'arrangement.']

SUN-URANUS
Constant diversity and variety. There is an instant, electrical attraction and much spontaneity between the two. Rarely boring, the two are likely to have much fun together. They may travel together.

SUN-NEPTUNE
Neptune exaggerates both the good and the bad of this situation. In general, Neptune feels confused, embarrassed, and inadequate in Sun's presence, making it difficult for either to communicate sensibly with the other. Sun can easily humble or awe Neptune, perhaps having some secret or quality which makes Sun appear Neptune's superior.
[ADD: I've seen the above work out in work or general non-romantic situations. In situations that could be romantic or sexual, each finds the other to be a temptation that it is appropriate to indulge in, as if ordering desert. (Sun catches Neptune's fancy, or the enchantment is reciprocal.) In many cases, temporary circumstances setup the "appropriateness."] [Edited 9/24/18]

SUN-PLUTO
Pluto is ever something of an enigma to Sun, shielded by a barrier that cannot be entirely by-passed. This is the only planet that can awe Sun; for within the Pluto person is some element of innate strength that Sun can never understand, a situation Pluto promotes. Sun may stay in Pluto's life for a while, then suddenly depart, perhaps not to be heard from again.
[ADD: Most often (but not invariably), Pluto pursues Sun. In most relationships, Sun departs. What's behind this is that Pluto's mere presence has a transforming effect on the Sun, stimulating the Sun to undergo change - without Pluto taking any particular actions in the matter. Most people are unwilling to accept this in a relationship, so they leave. But others...] [Edited 9/24/18]

SUN-ANGLE
Sun tends to dominate or control the other, representing an authoritative figure or a figure of strength on whom the Angle can rely. If Sun is male and Angle female, he may fit her ideal concept of malehood. This is a strong attraction element in the charts of marriage partners.
[STATS: One of the aspects Jung found common among married couples.]
[NOTE: Independent of gender, I have numerous examples on file where the Angle person's reaction to the Sun person was an admiring and desiring, "Gotta have that!" One famouse one: Sandra Dee's Sun exactly on Bobby Darin's Eastpoint.]
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Moon co-aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 1:31 pm

MOON-MOON
A superb contact with a broad feeling of simpatico. The emotions of these two people are in close tune. They share similar interests, and respond to the tone of the world in much the same style. Not particularly common in marriage, but nonetheless a pleasing contact.

MOON-MERCURY
Communication flows well. These two could sit and talk for hours. Moon automatically takes to instructing Mercury, who can learn much from Moon that is useful and important. There seems to be a psychic link between their minds, and it is often hard to tell where one mind leaves off and the other begins. [Edited 9/24/18]

MOON-VENUS
The aspect of true lovers: Reciprocal pleasure comes very easily to these two. Each responds with full sensual vigor to the other's enamored advances. Each desires strongly to touch, caress, and hold the other. They will have much fun together in many ways, and are likely to share happiness. [Edited 9/24/18]

MOON-MARS
This is a particularly common interchange for marriage and strongly sexual, but not without an itching undercurrent of irritation. "Time corrupts everything, including immortal love" (Kilgore Trout): When this interchange is present it is a growing bitterness as each becomes less able to tolerate the other's personal habits and mannerisms. Mars seems to try to incite an emotional response in Moon by picking, jabbing, cutting with words and deeds, and in a moment of fury, Moon may indeed erupt on the unsuspecting Mars.
[STATS: One of the aspects Jung found common among married couples.]
[NOTE: The above is accurate but out of proportion. It needs to say that the negative traits are usually slow in showing. It's long been common in my circles to call this the S.O.S. aspect - "Sex or Strife" - and there's an "F.O.F." that has the same meaning. Sexual attraction is fierce and usually very satisfying all around. But when that activity drops off a bit - due to tiredness, distraction, or whatever - the other elements come as described.]

MOON-JUPITER
Jupiter gives Moon the red carpet treatment, wining and dining or otherwise giving Moon a good time. Much congeniality here, and Moon comes to regard Jupiter as a person of importance, in many ways a superior being.
[ADD: My current notebooks especially confirm that Jupiter extends hospitality to Moon in diverse ways, is quite welcoming, and shows many kindnesses. Both tend to look after each other as friends.] [Edited 9/24/18]

MOON-SATURN
Saturn somehow inhibits Moon from fully expressing her emotions, or remains unresponsive to Moon's sensuous solicitations. Though often present among lifelong friends, it is not particularly conducive to domestic happiness together.
[ADD: Moon wants to "settle in" with Saturn.]
[NOTE: Rather than Saturn inhibiting Moon's emotional expression per se, I'm more inclined to read my current notebooks as showing that Saturn tends to be somewhat removed without being outright cold. For example (but only one variation), Saturn may be quite affectionate but already committed and "unavailable," or simply not interested except in a casual contact.]

MOON-URANUS
An element of thrill and excitement is interjected into this association. Dullness is rarely present. Uranus may introduce Moon to some new lifestyle.

MOON-NEPTUNE
Madness is in the air! Neptune in particular is totally flustered or embarrassed by Moon's presence, and in Moon's desire to set things aright and hide insecurity, Moon babbles on into utter mortification. This causes nothing but confusion between the two involved.
[ADD: Much sensitivity between them, easy empathy.]
[NOTE: The most deeply shaming sexual experience of my life was with someone where each of us had Moon exactly opposite the other's Neptune. In other cases, as the Moon person, I've never felt I really knew where I stood in the relationship or, alternately, it was obvious I stood nowhere! I suspect I gave something of the same impression in the few situations where roles were reversed and my Neptune aspected the other's Moon.]

MOON-PLUTO
Few people outside of this relationship looking in can totally understand it, for it often takes on strange characteristics. In general, Pluto remains aloof and distant and tends to hold Moon in awe. Fagan compared Pluto's relationship with Moon to that of the hypnotist to his subject, the sadist to the masochist, the one who knows to the one who does not know.
[ADD: Add "the flame to the moth," which has become my standard Moon-Pluto co-aspect metaphor over the last few decades. Surprisingly, my notebook has many examples of this in marriage with the husband's Pluto aspecting the wife's Moon. Otherwise, in sexual encounters, it is usually "hit and run," if my notebook examples are representative of the general population.]

MOON-ANGLE
This is a strong attractive element common in the charts of married couples. Moon may feel motherly or protective toward the Angle, or at least wishes to cuddle and hold the latter. In many ways, similar to Moon-Moon interchanges.
[STATS: One of the aspects Jung found common among married couples.]
[NOTE: I may have backwards who is caretaking whom! With a few decades of perspective, the clearest examples in my notebook show the Angle caretaking, offering hospitality to etc. the Moon person.]
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Mercury co-aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 1:31 pm

MERCURY-MERCURY
Communications flow freely. Their minds are so aligned that ideas pass back and forth between them easily. [ADD: There is usually a specifically intellectual or educative basis for the relationship.]

MERCURY-VENUS
Mercury's words cause Venus much pleasure. Venus responds to Mercury with sweetness. It is good for creative partnerships.

MERCURY-MARS
Mars tends to criticize and find fault with Mercury's ideas, and is likely to attack him verbally, if not physically. If other things are in tune, this can be excellent for creative partnerships where each finds the weaknesses of the other's ideas enabling them to "get the bugs out." It is highly stimulating on a mental level. There is much mental game-playing between them, though, and it is an essentially argumentative combination. Curiously, there is often a strongly sexual side to this interchange, though unless Mercury has another planet involved, he may be unaware of Mars' interest. [Danica observation: Mercury's words 'fire up' Mars, inspire him to action, touching the core of Mars person's need for/mode of physical self-expression.] More notes: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=27 ... 757#p18757

MERCURY-JUPITER
Jupiter has the highest regard for Mercury's ideas and mode of expression, and does everything in his power to promote Mercury. This is a superb business combination, though usually with Mercury responsible for actual production while Jupiter runs the show. STATS: Significantly common between the charts of parents and children.

MERCURY-SATURN
Saturn seems closed-eared to what Mercury has to say, offering it little respect and subconsciously shutting off his mind to it. Because Mercury cannot "get through" to Saturn, Saturn appears (to Mercury) to be stupid and slow to learn even the most basic things. This is not comfortable for business associations, or for teacher-pupil situations. STATS: Significantly uncommon between the charts of parents and children.
[ADD: In general, not the best for communication. The "stupid" remarks above are over-stated, and I now think Mercury is the one least likely to "get the point" - but communication, especially emotional communication, doesn't go very well between these two.]

MERCURY-URANUS
Uranus, by lifestyle or mode of thinking, introduces Mercury to new mental wonders. There is considerable excitement, and Mercury may be led into entirely new fields of investigation.
[ADD: Confirming, years later, that Uranus opens Mercury to new possibilities, and Mercury is often utterly fascinated by this!]

MERCURY-NEPTUNE
Neptune seemsi ncapable of clearly understanding what Mercury is saying the first time around - or even the second or third. They are on totally different planes of communication, Neptune becoming more confused and unsure as Mercury tries to back his claims with the logic and reason of which he is master.

MERCURY-PLUTO
This is one of the less comfortable interchanges for close relationships. Small-scale communication may result from a distance, but in most cases Pluto prefers to remain aloof. This is because tensions may easily result which lead to strains in communication. If distancing is bringed, the two may explore together many strange and wonderful ideas and topics. Pluto's unconventional probing mind provides much food for thought for the mercurial friend.

MERCURY-ANGLE
This contact is grand for communication, as Mercury tries to keep all channels open. Often the Angle will be responsible for getting Mercury to express himself.
[NOTE: My current notebooks strongly confirm the last sentence: Angle manages to get Mercury to express himself, write, etc.]
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Venus co-aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 1:31 pm

VENUS-VENUS
Each has the warmest feelings of friendship for the other, and there may be compatibility of aesthetic interests as well. These two are playmates, sharing their joys and pursuing happiness together. Unfortunately, few married couples sport this pairing.
[NOTE: In my relationship history, this interchange has shown as friendly but not passionate.]

VENUS-MARS
The most sexual of all interchanges. Mars takes delight in making physical advances towards Venus (whether something mild, such as teasing and pestering, or a definite erotic advance). Mars excites Venus' passionate devotion. Venus especially pleases Mars. [Edited 9/24/18]
[NOTE: The main point here is that this is a passionate, sensuous, sexy aspect in and of itself - not much more than that, and rarely less than that. Generally a good time is had by all!]
[CASUAL OBSERVATION: I'm starting to look at these in nonromantic relationships where I can find them (e.g., business). I don't yet have a solid handle on it - though it does seem that Mars wants something from Venus, and can sometimes hover or pester if he or she isn't getting the attention or response sought - almost as if in a "crush."]

VENUS-JUPITER
Each benefits from the other. Jupiter is always conscious of public images, and wants to be seen with the most beautiful and charming people. He lavishes affection and gifts upon Venus, the Fairest of the Fair in his eyes. Venus, quite pleased, turns her affections toward the Jupiterian, possibly with the feeling that she is consorting with royalty.

VENUS-SATURN
In some way, Saturn inhibits Venus' happiness or pleasure. Sometimes it indicates frustrated love, Saturn being inaccessible despite Venus' strong attraction to him. Venus may for some reason sacrifice her own pleasure out of a sense of devotion to Saturn, as in taking care of an ailing Saturn.
[NOTE: It is surely not a coincidence that I have almost no examples of this in my relationship files, and almost no examples in my personal relationship history.]

VENUS-URANUS
Venus is captivated by Uranus' originality, freshness, and unexpected actions. Often the two will meet while traveling. Venus considers Uranus a special type of person, outside the norm, while Uranus is thrilled to have such a youthful admirer.
[NOTE: Often significant age-difference, class difference, etc., though either could be the older. Don't overplay the "travel" remarks, but this can often be an opportunistic encounter.]

VENUS-NEPTUNE
Venus' advances embarrass Neptune and make him nervous. Neptune may feel inferior before the suave, attractive appearance of Venus. On the pleasant side it can lead to luxuriating together in sexual indulgence, but whether close friends or bitter foes, Neptune will never feel entirely at ease in Venus' presence.
[ADD: Aspect of romance. Often provides the shared willingness to overlook "the little stuff" to permit a generally sound relationship to persist.] [NOTE: I'm not at all sure much of the original interpretation above is correct. The ADD section gets the crux, I think.]

VENUS-PLUTO
Intensity in a relationship can come from this interaspect, but usually of short duration. Pluto may be a mystery person, alluring and magnetic, who attracts Venus and then departs. On the other hand, if all else agrees, these two can share unbelievably close emotional affinities.
[NOTE: I have Venus partile square Pluto at birth, so any woman near my age has her Pluto square my Venus. In my own case, none of these relationships has ever been more than flitting. All felt "arms length" emotionally. No matter what the attraction or friendship affection, there generally was no sense of an actual lasting connection when looking back. That wasn't always the impression at the time, though. - When my Pluto has aspected the woman's Venus, I think what I just described was her experience (as best I can tell).]

VENUS-ANGLE
Venus loves the Angle. There is real, serious, penetrating, moving love here (especially when Venus is on the Horizon). Not every affection from this will be major and enduring - some will just be friendly and passing - but it's pleasant and friendly, and those that have something else to anchor them become some of the most important and dear of relationships.
[NOTE: This is the single most-represented co-aspect between charts of married couples.]
[PERSONAL NOTE: My Venus was on the natal angle of the only woman I ever married (who also had her Venus on my angle); the woman I'm about to marry; a woman I much loved and lived with about a year; a woman with whom I almost had a baby; another long-term lover; and several lesser relationships.]
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Mars co-aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 1:32 pm

MARS-MARS
Very passionate and forceful, demanding physical outlets. At worst, it can indicate terrible enemies, fighting tooth and nail. However, contests can also exist on the football field or as healthy competition in the world of business. It can be a strongly sexual aspect, providing physical expression in erotic escapades.
[NOTE: I no longer would call these "very passionate and forceful." The aspect in non-sexual relationships - say in business, friends, etc. - primarily plays ego confrontation, competition, all the anthropological rituals around that. In sexual relationships I don't see this aspect very often, and, when present, I'm inclined to call it "perfectly serviceable" rather than "passionate and forceful." There is also an expression of team mates, fighting together in common cause as on a sports team or battle field.]

MARS-JUPITER
Jupiter does much to enhance, compliment, and improve the physical expression of Mars. In romance, that can mean giving Mars confidence in his sexuality; in business, giving him every opportunity to improve his station. Jupiter may be overly generous with the opportunistic Mars, and unless the relationship is amiable, Mars will be continually demand or borrowing money from Jupiter to the latter's discomfort. Jupiter can take offense from Mars' bad manners and refuse to be seen with him in public.
[NOTE: The above is over-stated. Yes, Mars can cost Jupiter money, but usually isn't hitting him up hard for it. (Jupiter is very willing to do Mars a favor.) The first sentence makes the main point, plus these relationships are simply fun!]

MARS-SATURN
This is often considered the most unfortunate of interchanges, considered a hatred combination,l but it is not always apparent in the extreme. At the very least, Saturn somehow debilitates Mars' feelings of strength and confidence, and eventually loses respect for him. Depending on other conditions in the charts, Mars may retaliate such that it becomes survival of the fittest! Mars is too often held back in his growth for this to be a comfortable interchange between business or marriage partners, or child and parent or teacher.
[ADD: Mars doesn't go away from this relationship feeling he got his due.]
[ADD: Somehow I missed using the phrase "power struggles," which certainly can describe these. Even in positive relationships, there is an inequity in power distribution, and an instinct to set it aright. Often, this is exactly what causes the conflicts..]

[NOTE: Some further remarks based on a very important personal relationship where we had a partile Mars-Saturn square. As I've seen in other Mars-Saturn interchanges, there was no shortage of sexual energy, but all seem to have a bit of the forbidden, dangerous, or defiant about them. Despite good intentions and good skills, over the years there was an increased element of inequality manifest. Communication withholds were increased in a misguided effort to avoid unhappiness and conflict; and these withholds, in turn, hurt the relationship. Perhaps most importantly, when we weren't fighting with each other, our conjoint presence seemed to cause conflict around us, and to stir people to discomfort and upset - probably because, if we were denying that expression ourselves, then it was going to find another avenue to express itself in our lives. For best effect, in such a relationship one must keep communication absurdly clean and open despite any seeming short-term costs; be sensitive to the fact that there is a tendency for both of you to hurt, both of you to force your way through it, and one or both of you to come out of it thinking you "didn't get your due." Maybe find something to fight against or fight for as a team.]

MARS-URANUS
There is opportunity for carefree, uncommitted sexual contact, especially if they meet while traveling. It may indicate Mars creating obstacles to the Uranian's dreams and goals.
[NOTE: Uranus can be extremely exciting and exhilarating to Mars, and there is much enthusiasm in these relationships while they last. The general tone and approach by both (especially by Uranus) seems to be a jolly, "Hey, why not!" I haven't personally encountered any of the abusive, interfering kind in the last couple of decades.]

MARS-NEPTUNE
Neptune leads Mars to give into temptation and indulge his fantasies. However, it is not a particularly good interchange in a relationship where Neptune's loyalty and support are essential. Mars' primary goal may be proving Neptune wrong and contributing to his mortification. He seems to require a special hold over Neptune, whether of the blackmail variety, or something far less extreme.
[ADD: Passionate fantasy indulgences.]

MARS-PLUTO
There is a strong need for intensive physical expression of some sort. Mars may be coercive, unmercifully attacking Pluto and taking every available advantage of him. Masochistic Pluto may even relish this treatment at times, and subconsciously invite it in his actions. Mars attacks what he cannot understand and, to the brash martian, Pluto is probably the most difficult to understand of all!
[NOTE: I've seen the above in "famous person" charts but not in "real life." The main characteristic seems to be that there must be intense and frequent explosions. In sexual relationships the energy is explosive. In non-sexual relationships the risk for conflict is higher, because the same kind of "blow me the {shag} away explosion" is needed by the aspect.]

MARS-ANGLE
There is a tremendous energy flow between these two people, usually involving overt physical aggression. This can be either sexual or in the form of Mars attacking the Angle. In some cases, the angle may see Mars' masculinity strongly highlighted, leading to intense admiration or physical arousal.
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Outer planet co-aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue May 09, 2017 1:32 pm

JUPITER-ANGLE
Jupiter desires a continuing friendship and thinks highly of the Angle. They are likely to share much laughter and many good times. Jupiter may even raise the Angel to a higher lifestyle.
[NOTE: To put it simply: These relationships are good for you!]

SATURN-ANGLE
Saturn represents a burden to the Angle, but not always an unwanted one. Saturn is a limitation or frustration, and may find that he cannot entirely respect the Angle.
[ADD: Saturn in some fashion keeps distance or draws a line. The relationship may be a valued one, but, due to Saturn's limits, it will not likely be what it might have been.]

URANUS-ANGLE
Uranus sets the pace as exciting and stimulating. The two may meet while traveling, and there is likely to be an instantaneous attraction. Uranus is a source of new insight and exciting discovery to the Angle, at least until the novelty wears off.
[NOTE: I'm starting to think of "opportunistic" as an important Uranian word. In nearly all examples in my files, the Uranus person moved on a presented opportunity or change of circumstances. Even when long-term relationships have grown from this, it wasn't what was on Uranus' mind at the moment of starting.]

NEPTUNE-ANGLE
Neptune is not too comfortable in the Angle's presence, but may nonetheless go to special lengths, however subtly, to cement an attachment between the two of them. Usually Neptune is apprehensive and in some cases he tries to gain the upper hand by playing "parent" to the Angle.
[NOTE: At this point in my life, I would write a very different paragraph on this aspect - provided I could get any clarity on what to say! When I have been the Neptune person in these relationships, I've never known quite where I stood. There was little clarity, few definitions, and little expectation that the definitions would stay constant. I'm pretty sure I couldn't see truths right in front of my eyes. There was a mild undercurrent of "Twilight Zone." I'm pretty sure the same was true for the women involved when I was the Angle and they provided the Neptune: In those few cases, I'm not sure I was entirely "seen" by them. I seemed more to be a passing weather front during a longer journey.]

PLUTO-ANGLE
The Angle considers Pluto a rebel, perhaps a trouble-maker trying to upset the Establishment or some of the Angle's treasured values. Pluto tends to keep a safe distance away, and in extreme cases he will actually pack his bags and leave! Yet when cornered he is always ready to validate his own actions. [ADD: Pluto "hits" hard and strong - a definite impact is made.]
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Re: Co-aspects - interpretation resource

Post by Lance » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:11 am

Is there a reason that the outer planets co-aspects are limited to discussion of the angles?

For example, there's no listing for Saturn conjunct Pluto.

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Re: Co-aspects - interpretation resource

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:26 am

Lance wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:11 am
Is there a reason that the outer planets co-aspects are limited to discussion of the angles?

For example, there's no listing for Saturn conjunct Pluto.
Yes: I didn't want to feed the idea that those are planet-to-planet aspects are of any importance in chart comparisons.

You can, though, use transit interpretations if such an aspect is partile (as part of an overall assessment of such transits).
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Re: Co-aspects - interpretation resource

Post by Danica » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:46 pm

An observation on Mercury-Mars interchange (dynamic aspects): Mercury's words 'fire up' Mars, inspire him to action, touching the core of Mars person's need for/mode of physical self-expression.
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

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Re: Co-aspects - interpretation resource

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:29 am

Danica wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:46 pm
An observation on Mercury-Mars interchange (dynamic aspects): Mercury's words 'fire up' Mars, inspire him to action, touching the core of Mars person's need for/mode of physical self-expression.
Thanks. I've added your note above for reference (and for whenever I get around to doing the top-to-bottom rewrite of these that they need).

Now I'm looking to see if I can confirm this from personal experience. I have 13 people I know well who have Mercury within 4° of conjunction or opposition or 3° of square to 28°55' Sagittarius (my Mars position). One or (in a certain way) two of them had the kind of impact on me you mention - they were both lovers who had a keen way to penetrate right into me with a phrase. For the other 11, though, I can't think of a single occasion like this that survives in memory. With about two-thirds of them, communication was often directly contentions, or occurred in a contentious context, or was a bit of ongoing verbal swordplay (or, in one case, just that we've always had unusually candid, personal communications).

There are at least a couple where there is a different variant than you mention - maybe off track, but I'll record it here while I'm noticing it. It's that my ongoing role was to cut through their wordplay incisively - cut past their defensive verbal {bs} - which sometimes led to them staying in my life and sometimes to them departing. (Not just disputing ideas: Specifically cutting through an entanglement of ideas by which they were painting themselves into a tidy little universe.)


Flipping this around, I have 17 people (including you) with Mars within the same orbs of 17°21' Libra, my Mercury position. Looking for the specific effect you cite, I can't confirm it in a single case. In fact, what stands out most is how resistant half these people are to any input or contribution from me. (One was my father, with whom I had a very argumentative relationship growing up, and, especially, he didn't want to hear any of the highfalutin intellectual things out of me because none of it was practical; and later in life, when things had calmed down, he still seemed impenetrable to anything serious or authentic I said. Another is my sister, the poorest relationship in my family. Several other examples of people resisting contribution from me, one of whom ironically tried to steal the greatest thing I've built in my life and managed just to do damage to it for a while. Several aggravatingly contentious relationships, and two or three marked simply by honest, forthright communication.) The biggest, most consistent factor here is the resistance most of them have for being contributed to, and their tendency to warrior-like protect it as if what made their world make most sense depended on it.

There are two, though (the two former lovers in the list) that, for reasons that never made full sense to me, I mostly cut off communication with. (Objectively, I'd say there is no clear reason for me to have done so. Straining to analyze myself on it at this moment, I notice that one of the relationships especially and the other one mostly were examples of easy, candid communication at all points. I didn't really "cut off" communication, though that's how it pops up in my head, but rather backed away without explanation from the possibility of continuing or renewing it later. I suspect I'm resisting just how deep and easy - how intimate - the communication would get immediately and, of course, by now a little ashamed at having ignored them so long.)


After writing and looking at all the above, I think I would now say that this aspect in my life has always "required" easy, candid, honest, flowing communication - which makes the relationship quite intimate - and when either or both aren't up to that the relationships have failed in various ways, either by one leaving, or by being openly contentious, or by the parties "settling" for a much lesser relationship. It needs to be engaged, or willingness to engage.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

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