Bernie Sanders

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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:38 am

SteveS wrote:I am extremely curious to endeavor to understand the astrology that explains Bernie's huge upset win in Michigan and Hillary's huge upset loss in Michigan.
Do you mean personally to them, or mundanely?
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:38 am

SteveS wrote:Both, but mainly personal.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:39 am

SteveS wrote:Both, but mainly personal.
I agree that this is a worthwhile astrological project. The psychological impact was large.

Just to be clear, the "real world," practical details were much smaller than the psychological impact. His margin was very small, only about 1.5% lead. Sanders (from the last polls) was expected to get no more than about 42% of the vote and he got 49.8%. The bigger surprise was that Hillary was expected to get in the high 50s and only got 48.3%. They almost tied for delegates won. But there was a 99% chance given that Hillary would "win," i.e., get at least one more vote than Bernie. I pretty much understand how this happened in non-astrological terms, it's not really a mystery anymore; but it would be great to understand it in astrological terms also.

The Michigan primary was held March 8, 2016, and we can use 9 PM EST as the approximate time. I don't know where the candidates were at the time, so I have to ignore or minimize any techniques that are dependent on location.

Among Bernie's transits, we have two that do not promote winning, that marked negatively every detail of the surrounding weeks except the Michigan primary: Saturn squared his Sun, being 28' away when the polls closed, and Neptune crossed his IC (orb 21'). On that night, he was also set for a forceful surprise, with Mars opposite his Uranus and conjunct his progressed Sun.

Hillary has had Pluto semisquare her Jupiter all year, but on this night she had Mars conjunct her Jupiter: Mars-Pluto to her Jupiter. That cost her. Her SLR that night would have her natal Mercury-Saturn on the angles for Lansing - quite an appropriate aspect, on which elections have been lost before - but I'm not sure she was in Michigan.

But, with the tools available to us that don't rely on a location for the person, that's about all I can stir up. I would have expected Bernie to be in the middle of a demoralizing period (actually, he was - this just wasn't part of it) and Hillary to be fighting hard and doing OK.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:39 am

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:
SteveS wrote:I am extremely curious to endeavor to understand the astrology that explains Bernie's huge upset win in Michigan and Hillary's huge upset loss in Michigan.
There was no huge upset, either win or lose, in Michigan. Bernie won the primary and got 65 delegates. Hillary lost it and got 58. Nothing changed but a few numbers got added to the totals for both candidates. She was and is still winning the nomination, and he was and is not.

If you want to study the effect of this primary as a huge upset, you need to study the charts of the newspeople who were shocked and surprised. They were the only ones. Even pollsters weren't shocked. There was nearly no polling in Michigan, and what there was wasn't well done.

Bernie's people love to hype things like this, trying to make Hillarly look like a loser so people will let Bernie take the nomination at the convention. Don't get taken in by this tactic. This was not a big shocking surprise upset anything.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:40 am

Here's a curio worth mentioning - one Bradley mentioned to me a couple times as something that was just too naggingly on the nose to ignore.

In the Dasa-Bhukti system the area from 20°00'00" to 22°00'00" Sagittarius is the Jupiter subzone of a Venus Nakshatra: Jupiter of Venus. If (as a little too often seems the case) these areas are pure 'zodiacal' zones, then this would be one of the most benefic 2° parts of the zodiac.

On March 8, as the returns came in, Bernie Sanders' progressed Moon was 20°23' Sagittarius, right in the middle of that zone. It entered February 27 and left April 17. That's a pretty wide swath, and I'd have to go back and see if that period was distinctly marked by anything. Of the cuff, I think it actually was the period when (due to the Saturn and Neptune transits) his campaign started heading for the toilet. But it's interesting in the context of pleasant surprise in Michigan.

Beginning April 17, he entered Saturn of Venus. He will stay in that until May 31.

Hillary, on March 8, had nothing so dramatic. Her progressed Moon at 11°00' Virgo was in the last minutes of the Moon of Moon period. Her progressed Moon had left a Sun major period and entered the 13°20' (roughly a year) Moon period February 10. Her progressed Moon entered the Mars sub-zone March 11, Uranus on April 30, will enter Jupiter of Moon May 21 (and stays there through the California and New Jersey primaries), and then Saturn on July 14.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:40 am

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:I have the spreadsheet you posted ages ago (Dasa-Bhukti.zip) and if I input the progressed moon, I get the subzone and Nakshatra that you give, but I can't figure out how to use this spreadsheet to show when the moon enters or leaves one of these areas.
IS there another way?
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:41 am

Remind me where the thread is that has that, and I'll updated it. Meantime, grab a copy of this updated file, and look on the last tab.

[REMOVED BECAUSE SOMEONE ABUSED THE LINK AND ACTUALLY EDITED MY FILE - NEARLY DESTROYED IT - RATHER THAN SIMPLY GETTING A COPY. I'VE RECOVERED AND REPAIRED THE FILE, AND WILL POST A NEW LINK WHENEVER I FIND WHERE THE ORIGINAL THREAD WAS.]
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:41 am

SteveS wrote:JSAD wrote:
Even pollsters weren't shocked.
I have very little experience following pollsters--never paid much attention to political polls, but this year I have been following Jim's posts with 538 as a possible future gambling interest, and noticed Silver had Hillary a 99% chance of winning Michigan and Silver himself stated Michigan was a huge upset with all the combined Polls he accumulates for 538. I interrupt this to mean Silver was "shocked" to the outcome in Michigan. Are you saying Michigan is unique to normal polling processes compared to other states and this is the reason 538 failed with its combined polls forecast in Michigan?
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:42 am

May 14, 2016
SteveS wrote:I have very little experience following pollsters--never paid much attention to political polls, but this year I have been following Jim's posts with 538 as a possible future gambling interest, and noticed Silver had Hillary a 99% chance of winning Michigan and Silver himself stated Michigan was a huge upset with all the combined Polls he accumulates for 538. I interrupt this to mean Silver was "shocked" to the outcome in Michigan. Are you saying Michigan is unique to normal polling processes compared to other states and this is the reason 538 failed with its combined polls forecast in Michigan?
Yes, I think it was a huge upset, and yes, I disagree with JSAD, the pollsters were taken by surprise. That's why I said the event had psychological impact. But it was only psychological impact. JSAD is right that there was almost no practical impact of that win. (He's also right that the news media had a huge run with it.)

Bernie had a great day. He had a Harry Truman moment: He went to bed early, assuming like the rest of the world that he'd come in 10-20 points behind Hillary in a state she was widely expected to win. They had to wake him up to tell him he'd won, and then he hopped out there, hair even more disheveled than usual, and gave a roaring speech. OTOH, I don't think it was as big event for Hillary. Losing is never fun, and she'd worked fiercely for the Flint, MI people in particular and had a leg up, but her trackers knew Bernie had been gaining. Like I said a few minutes ago in another thread about the Obamacare court case, this was surely disappointing to her, but not surprising the way it was for TV viewers.

And you can't think of this win-lose in the same sense as, say, a football game. This was a football game where both teams won, and nobody got any practical advantage except for enthusing their cheering sections. (But that makes it a matter of mundane astrology - the story of the cheer block, not of the candidates.) At the end of the day, Bernie got 67 delegates and Hillary got 63, almost the same.

Also, I think that "99%" figure keeps throwing people. A 99% prediction that Hillary would win does not at all mean that she was expected to get nearly all the vote. "Winning" is defined as getting more than the other person, so this was a statistical projection that it was 99% likely Hillary would get at least one more vote than Bernie. As it turned out, he got 49.8% of the vote (not even half) and she got 48.3%. That's close! He got 595,222 votes, she got 576,795 votes.

That "99% likely to win" prediction would have been correct if she'd gotten 18,428 more votes. That's not a lot.

So... I think you're right that there is something to track down here, but it's not an objective difference that matters. Bernie, with lousy transits, got a really nice surprise (but not a life-altering surprise - just something on the level of, say, having a favorite daughter show up on the campaign trail when he thought she was out of the country). The public got startled and got revved up to the excitement of a last minute touchdown game. (It was very much like a last-minute touchdown by the team that was slightly behind - that analogy is very close.) So mundane astrology is where I'd expect to see the most, I wouldn't expect much past routine frustration and grumbles for Hillary, and I'd expect a nice surprise in Bernie's charts.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:43 am

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:Remind me where the thread is that has that, and I'll updated it.
add working link - thread Obama's Dasas

Thanks for the new spreadsheet.

ETA: I downloaded it and opened it in Open Office on my Mac.
It isn't obvious, but the three dots at the far right of the menu line is the additional options button and offers the option of downloading the file. Folks, if you don't have a spreadsheet program of your own, please download Open Office for free.
Jim, would you like a copy of the file I downloaded? I think I got it before it was edited.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:44 am

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:I said the pollsters weren't shocked because they weren't. They were a little surprised by how much Bernie won by, but the fact is there were no good recent polls in Michigan beforehand, and everybody knew it, and said as much, and said it often.
Michigan was thought to be much closer than it was, and it was expected Mrs. Clinton would win by a couple of points. Bernie won instead, but it wasn't a landslide. It was by 1.5% of the votes.

Some pollsters expressed surprise, but the press was claiming SHOCK! HORROR! DISASTER FOR CLINTON! and all the other headlines. Anything to get people who are frankly bored by the Democratic race to pay attention.

It was a bit of a surprise, but it wasn't a shock. A shock was what happened to Karl Rove when Romney lost in 2012.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:45 am

JSAD, thanks for offering the file copy. Asking you would have been my next step. Fortunately, OneDrive has some solid recovery and surgery tools. It was my own fault for being inattentive on sharing privileges, and I've now moved this to another isolated area and marked it uneditable. People can download it, but not edit. I suspect the editing was done by someone excited who popped it open and immediately began working with it :)

I've created a new thread for this tool and permanently shared it there. Here is the thread:
add working link
Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:It isn't obvious, but the three dots at the far right of the menu line is the additional options button and offers the option of downloading the file. Folks, if you don't have a spreadsheet program of your own, please download Open Office for free.
You can also get a free OneDrive account. (If you have any "Microsoft Account," you probably already have one, and with an Office 365 subscription you have one with huge amounts of free storage.) A OneDrive.com (or Outlook.com - same thing) account gives you not only cloud storage, but web versions of Microsoft Word, Excel, etc. If you don't own Excel, you can upload it and work with it directly on your web interface.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:I said the pollsters weren't shocked because they weren't. They were a little surprised by how much Bernie won by, but the fact is there were no good recent polls in Michigan beforehand, and everybody knew it, and said as much, and said it often.
Michigan was thought to be much closer than it was, and it was expected Mrs. Clinton would win by a couple of points. Bernie won instead, but it wasn't a landslide. It was by 1.5% of the votes.

Some pollsters expressed surprise, but the press was claiming SHOCK! HORROR! DISASTER FOR CLINTON! and all the other headlines. Anything to get people who are frankly bored by the Democratic race to pay attention.

It was a bit of a surprise, but it wasn't a shock. A shock was what happened to Karl Rove when Romney lost in 2012.
Exactly. I red a lot of analysis on this at the time, and the main factors emerging were:

1. Bernie was good about ramping up support at the last minute.
2. There hadn't been any recent polls, and Bernie pushed really hard in the last few days.
3. Additionally, that "99% sure" figure hurt Hillary. There was a lot of tracking showing that her supporters in Michigan figured it was a shoo-in (didn't understand what the 99% meant) and they crossed over to the Republican primary to vote against Trump. If they'd voted in their own primary, Hillary would have won.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

SteveS wrote:Thanks Jim for your psychological explanation for this Michigan Primary. Yes, I certainly understand it was not a big deal to Hillary but I think definitely a surprise to Bernie. I have to assume the candidates pay attention to 538 since it is considered a gold standard for polling.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:47 am

May 19, 2016

Bernie is feeling' the Bern himself.

He hasn't been doing so well. (Way better than he and others expected, but not well.) Last weekend in Nevada, and the follow-up, has him more than a little peeved. He's cited as having a renewed vigor and aggression, willing to "do some damage to Clinton in the short run" between now and the convention. Reports of his state all about Mars.

And Mars has been crossing his Ascendant. It's moved past now (but will be back for June 7's critical primaries - see summary below. Everything is spiraling back to his least kind chart scenario.
June 7 is the date of the California and New Jersey primaries, the vast majority of all delegates left and the day it is expected Hillary will cement the nomination. How do Bernie's transits look? Using 10 PM Pacific time...

t. Pluto -135- r. Uranus +31'
t. Uranus-180- r. Venus +07'
t. Saturn -0-r. EP +19' [with Saturn sq. Neptune 43']
t. Mars -0- r. Asc +03'

Seems a pretty harsh, unhappy day.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:48 am

SteveS wrote:
t. Saturn -0-r. EP +19' [with Saturn sq. Neptune 43']
par excellent symbolism for "removal."
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:48 am

Jun 09, 2016

An interesting note about Bernie Sanders' dasas.

He entered his 16-year major Jupiter cycle in May 2014. This has clearly been an upsweep, a high point, a time of eminence etc. This has all been in the two-year JUPITER-Jupiter minor period.

But, this month - on June 23, if we have all our theories lined up correctly, he enters JUPITER-Saturn - the Saturn sub-period of Jupiter, one that acts much as Saturn transiting his Jupiter. This will last about two and a half years, until December 2018.

He is at least at the end of the road of his JUPITER-Jupiter time.

Hillary dropped out in 2008 also under a Saturn minor period.

Bernie's progressed Moon today is 24°04' Sagittarius, just a day or two out of 1° orb conjunct progressed Venus.

The zodiacal position of Bernie's progressed Moon isn't very revelatory in terms of the periods: It's in VENUS-Mercury. But Hillary's progressed Moon today is 14°28' Virgo, Right in the middle of the Jupiter sub-period of Moon - like a Jupiter transit to her Moon.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun May 14, 2017 11:49 am

Jul 12, 2016

Around 11:30 AM Eastern Time this morning, Sanders ended his presidential run and - with surprising passion - endorsed Hillary Clinton. Here are his transits:

t. Pluto -135- r. Uranus -18'
t. Uranus -0- r. Mars -20'
t. t. Saturn -90- r.MC +64'
t. Sun -90- r. Moon +15'
-- p. Moon -90- r. Moon -07'
-- t. Sun -180- p. Moon +22'
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:33 am

Bernie Sanders was hospitalized in Las Vegas for artery blockage and has undergone stent surgery. His campaign is cancelling events until they have more word.

This is usually successful surgery that lengthens life and strengthens the individual. However, the political implications and short-term activity level are less certain. Time will tell.

Meanwhile, it gives us a chance to test his 12:27 PM birth time.

His September 9 SSR, relocated to Las Vegas, has Pluto partile square Asc, his natal Moon-Venus-Mars across the horizon (Moon closest, with transiting Pluto square natal Moon 0°16'). It's an appropriate health crisis and "cutting" chart.

His September 16 SLR for Las Vegas has the same Moon-Pluto square (0°12') tightly angular - same exact angles as the SSR.

His September 29 Demi-SLR has Neptune closely conjunct IC but Jupiter partile square MC. It seems like an inconvenience but with good diagnosis, good treatment, and optimistic outcome. Natal Sun is at MC (0°06' opposed by Neptune, 1°+ from square Jupiter) among other small things.

Besides looking good for Bernie's prognosis, these also are remarkably accurate, descriptive charts that increase confidence in his "C" birth time.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by SteveS » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:54 pm

Jim wrote:
Besides looking good for Bernie's prognosis, these also are remarkably accurate, descriptive charts that increase confidence in his "C" birth time.
Excellent observation Jim, thanks.

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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by SteveS » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:39 am

On Election Day for Prez, Nov 3 2020, with the timed birth time for Bernie in this thread, he has a most interesting Solar Arc Jupiter 14,30 Leo conjuncting his Natal MC at 14,32 Leo. If this birth time is correct, at the very least, his Dem Party wins Prez.

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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by SteveS » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:41 am

Nov 3 2020:
SP Moon 23,04 Aqu
SP Jupiter 24,03 Tau

Jan 20 2021:
SP Moon 25,44 Aqu
Natal Jupiter 25,55 Tau
A candidate for public office can hardly expect election if Moon-Jupiter configurations are lacking.
Donald Bradley.
We may need to take Bernie's run for Prez more seriously. I will go on record now—If Bernie wins the Dem candidate for Prez, he will be elected Prez. The Right (Reps) will have a meltdown :shock: , no different when Trump was elected Prez the Left (Dems) had a meltdown. But if the Senate remains Rep majority, we will see the same so-so—gridlock. But, if Bernie happens to get a majority Senate. :o

Other notables:
SP ASC 11,17 Cap
SP Pluto 11,46 Can
Natal Pluto 11,08 Can

Ebertin from 'Combinations of Stellar Influences' says about Pluto-Ascendant combos:
The rule and control over one's environment. Striving for the attainment of power and authority.
Other angular hits:
SP UR 04,10 Tau
SP IC 03,07 Tau
SP DSC 11,17 Can
SP PL 11,46 Can
SP MC 03,07 Sco
NA Sat 04,37 Tau

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